Author Topic: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled  (Read 403 times)

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Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« on: April 10, 2017, 07:42:46 pm »
The news site Flayrah covered the closure of this event...in case anyone here wanted to attend or already bought space/tickets...http://www.flayrah.com/6903/rocky-mountain-fur-con-canceled-following-neo-nazi-associations-tax-irregularities
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 08:28:13 pm »
:o Well, that certainly is an eye opener. Can't say I'm too surprised though as I've heard and read about a few various "furry extreme" groups and activities over the last 12+ years that I've been in the fandom. But to hear that a con has been canceled because of various hate and extremism security issues as well as the tax issues, etc. just takes things to a whole new level.  :o Wow. It's bad enough that we got hate, violence, etc. ratcheting upward because of all the politics going on in the U.S.. But to bring any hate, violence, etc. into  the furry fandom and into a con is just wrong. We don't need it.  >:( Guess this just goes to show that not everyone in the furry fandom is as friendly and accepting, etc. as we think. So sad.  :(
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 08:39:58 pm by Kobuk »
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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 09:45:55 pm »
Guess this just goes to show that not everyone in the furry fandom is as friendly and accepting, etc. as we think. So sad.  :(

No fandom is ever 100% accepting, because there are people in it. At least one person or a handful are going to be judgmental, cause trouble, etc. It's unfortunate that an entire con was dismantled due to such a small group, which were also enmeshed with the racism/hate scenario. Tax evasion doesn't surprise me...that kind of stuff happens to a lot of small cons, if the people running it are unscrupulous.   >:(

I hope Colorado gets a new con set up, so that midwest furs can have fun, too. In the meantime, it is a shame.
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 08:25:51 am »
You still have the Midwest Furfest, but that'll start on the last day of November.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 08:39:29 am »
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I hope Colorado gets a new con set up, so that midwest furs can have fun, too. In the meantime, it is a shame.

Not likely. It might be a long time before we see another con in Colorado. What happened to RMFC will probably make State agencies, hotels, and/or other groups think twice and scrutinize groups who wish to further open up future cons and other big events. I have no doubt that other cons across the country and/or overseas are learning a few lessons from what happened to RMFC so that they themselves don't have the same thing happen to them.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 08:08:51 pm »
What's wrong with these people? This is a heavy blow to the fandom.

We have what's called 'common law' here in MO. Really don't know much about it. However I do know there was a group who tried to use it against a real lawyer. This was around 20 years ago. Most of that group is still in prison. I really hope the same thing happens to this group. I'm not going to call them furries. They don't deserve to be called furries. There are a lot of law suits that should be filed here. Even from the threatened furry Deo.

I'm not an expert in the law. However I do believe that sending any body secretion through the mail is a federal offense.

Not really sure this would stop another furcon from being held in Col.  This is more of a reflection on both those in charge of the convention and the lack of scrutiny by the convention center. The center should have checked and made sure that the organization was still tax exempt and not really on the word of the board. 
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Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 05:45:18 pm »
Wow. This is incredible. I know someone who was attending this con.
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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 09:43:58 am »
What's wrong with these people? This is a heavy blow to the fandom.

I don't think it's actually a huge blow to the fandom.

The biggest threats to the fandom is when cons get closed down because their hotels buy out of their contracts because the convention is too crazy and/or poorly staffed. (see Rainfurrest.)

I would rather them close now because of something internal to the fandom than have them eventually ruin the reputation of furry conventions in Colorado.

At least this way another con can take their place without having to overcome a bad reputation with the hotels.

Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 10:01:13 pm »
What's wrong with these people? This is a heavy blow to the fandom.
At least this way another con can take their place without having to overcome a bad reputation with the hotels.

This is true, but I think it will be hard to move on from this debacle, given the media coverage this event has received...it calls into question all cons' head of staff, not just for Colorado... >:(

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2017, 03:57:09 pm »
Ya. I read the Rolling Stone's article as well. 

I think what happened here is far worst than Rainfurrest. Yes there was nothing good that came out of Rain. However Rocky has a legal ticket like a mobster. Tax evasion. Gun threats. A con CEO sending out an illegal threatening letter. And a convicted sex offender on staff.  Rainfurrest was bad.  But nothing like this. This could be in the main stream news for a few years coming.

One of the furry raiders put up a propaganda vid on the closing of Rocky Mountain furcon. Apparently sovereign citizens can do no wrong.  They're blaming the closure on the one fur who reported the gun threat to the convention center. This despite the fact that it was one of their own group who made the threat. 
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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2017, 04:52:19 pm »
Been following this the last few days since I pre-rejed back in August at the last con. Looks like it closed due to idiocy from all sides and no one wants to take any blame. 2Gryphon posted a rant on it yesterday that I feel is spot on from what I've seen and read from those involved. Looks to be a perfect storm of poor choices and drama from everyone involved. Also there is no such thing as a illegal cease and desist letter​ (basically it's a letter stating in order to establish damages; hey you...we don't like what your doing so stop or we will take you to court) at least in Colorado however there are certainly horribly written and baseless cease and decist letters (as in will not hold up in court). Which looked to be the case here.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 04:54:11 pm by Turgius »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 07:08:57 pm »
You can be sure that if anything like this ever happened at Anthrocon, Uncle Kage would put a stop to it right away. ;)  AC is held to a lot higher standards.
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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 07:41:01 pm »
2's rant proves he really didn't do any fact checking. First and foremost from what I've learned Deo isn't the person who contacted the convention center. I will no longer support or speak up for 2. His telling the fandom that we need to be more accepting without looking into who he's promoting. Sovereign citizens are bad news. These people are a legal nightmare.  If they were nazi it wouldn't really be a problem for the fandom. More often than not sovereign citizens end up in jail or prison.  The furry raiders have proven themselves to be sovereign citizens and in no way should their behavior be acceptable to anyone.

A long but very informed video. With some great links. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67DglZDkT4

If anything you should check out his link to a lawyer's response to the cease and desist letter.

Kage is only one voice on a board. I wouldn't exactly claim Anthrocon has higher standers. Not after their 'taking the con into a new direction" statement. This statement, without explanation, should worry the talent at that con.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 07:53:26 pm »
Quote
Not after their 'taking the con into a new direction" statement. This statement, without explanation, should worry the talent at that con.

What is this "statement" you speak of? I haven't been to AC since 2012. What new direction are they planning for the future?
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Offline Kaiden

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 12:10:15 am »
 Thankfully I've a friend who holds a con here in KS, as well as sevfural fur meets, but I would like to attend a huge con.

Thankfully there are other multiple local cons and or meet-ups.
Which I'm thankful for,  those neo-nazi furs can't ruin all of them, I highly doubt they can scatter their numbers that thin, but it means slightly less unity. 

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2017, 03:59:21 am »
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Not after their 'taking the con into a new direction" statement. This statement, without explanation, should worry the talent at that con.

What is this "statement" you speak of? I haven't been to AC since 2012. What new direction are they planning for the future?

The board of Anthrocon is not saying. That's the problem. When asked on their own forum they skip around the question. Make vague statements. In the short time I have this morning I wasn't able to find and quote the 'new direction' comment. But the thread most likely to have it is this one,

http://www.anthrocon.org/node/35886/programming-and-performer-lineup-changes

There are two heated threads on the cancellation  of 2's show. Neither have any clear answers.
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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2017, 09:02:40 am »
2's rant proves he really didn't do any fact checking. First and foremost from what I've learned Deo isn't the person who contacted the convention center. I will no longer support or speak up for 2. His telling the fandom that we need to be more accepting without looking into who he's promoting. Sovereign citizens are bad news. These people are a legal nightmare.  If they were nazi it wouldn't really be a problem for the fandom. More often than not sovereign citizens end up in jail or prison.  The furry raiders have proven themselves to be sovereign citizens and in no way should their behavior be acceptable to anyone.

A long but very informed video. With some great links. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M67DglZDkT4

If anything you should check out his link to a lawyer's response to the cease and desist letter.

Kage is only one voice on a board. I wouldn't exactly claim Anthrocon has higher standers. Not after their 'taking the con into a new direction" statement. This statement, without explanation, should worry the talent at that con.

I don't pass judgement on people unless I have verifiable facts and exsplenations, and don't rely trust sensationalist news sources. Especially if they don't cite their information and report hearsay. Also I would not put much stock in that video and the listed age on FA having anything to do with Hitler. It's not uncommon to see people list tripple digit age markers. Just something I found odd. Correlation does not imply causation after all in all cases.

From what Iv read and digged up on FA it would appear that only 2 members of the board are into the Sovereign Citizen Legal wonkeyness and I haven't seen any evidence that they are members of the Furry Raiders and not just friends of them. And both of them would reject being part of any such anti-movement and take offence at the term from what Iv seen of their retorts on the Colroado Furs FA page journal. As well as one one of their FAs and personal websites since they post everything. Per a previously posted journal on one of their FA's it appears they were already checked out by a U.S Marshal who found no harm and wrong doing after a neighborhood complaint and its my practice to leave people to their eccentricities so long as they are neither breaking the law or causing harm to others.  I read the breakdown of the C&D letter by that lawyer and do agree that it is horribly written and probably unenforceable but there is no such thing as a fake or illegal C&D letter, nor do you need a attorney to send one (though you probably should consult with one for you know what you are doing for you don't end up being sued over it). It was certainly bad PR.

As for the Furry Raiders being "NAZIs" I would need definitive proof of that and not hearsay since....well they stooped being a existing thing after WWII ended. Sure you can espouse their beliefs and hold little rallies wearing brown shirts and call your self a Nationalist Socialist but that doesn't rely make you anything but a poser. The term gets thrown around a lot by people who have no understanding of it's meaning now days to the point its reached a over used cliche. Far as I can tell, besides the acts of a few bad apples the worse thing the Furry Raiders did was overbook a number of rooms they could not have used back in 2016 before the Con room block opened (which they later begrudgingly  or not released) and wore attire (mainly arm bands) that appeared to be similar to that worn by the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Their leader my have acted like a Furrzi as well and said some rather offensive things while claiming to be trolling or so Iv read. They also apparently organized a lot of community events I never went to so can't comment. But that's no reason to advocate violence or demand everyone in their group be banned from a Convention because of the actions of a few bad apples. I was there in 2016 and did not see any problems or violence...though I did find the armbands odd since I was not aware of the group and don't rely follow local things.

There is a lot of rumors, conspiracy theories and claims being made by both sides. People seem to forget that social media is a public venue and things said can have consequences.  It appears (to me) that after this situation escalated and the owner of the convention's parent company chose to respond in a rather careless manner. The hotel found out and wasn't willing to take the liability risk given the hostile exchanges and accusations online without increased security (to the tune of around $22,000 per one of the board members) and I imagine after more than a year of this drama the chair had enough and decided to fold the Con. I think its tragic that a personal conflict between two small groups over things they disagree with killed anentire convention and ruined things for everyone because they couldn't keep it to them selves or agree to disagree. More baffling is the number of people on Twitter congratulating them selves on bringing down RMFC as if it's some great victory. From what Iv seen everyone involved has some blame and no one wants to take responsibility and just point the finger at everyone else and now there is this Alt-Right vs SJW thing that its taken on which I just see as politicized idiocy.

Well that's my take on the entire thing so far.

Hopefully things don't go down hill with Anthrocon since I still plan to attend one day in the future. Going to look for another nearish Con to attend.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 01:13:40 pm by Turgius »
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Offline Shim

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2017, 12:15:09 pm »
2's rant proves he really didn't do any fact checking.

2 not fact checking? GOSH GOLLY, WHAT A NEW CONCEPT.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Rocky Mountain Fur Con 2017 Canceled
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 04:59:10 pm »
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Hopefully things don't go down hill with Anthrocon since I still plan to attend one day in the future.

I don't think they will. I have faith and am pretty confident that AC will be around for a long time to come. Uncle Kage and/or the rest of the con staff would never let the troubles that happened at RMFC to happen at AC. Anthrocon is pretty much the furry fandom's "flagship con". If AC goes down for any reason, I think it'll be due to "growing pains". Last year, attendence was slightly over 7,000 I think? By 2020, it could reach 10,000.  :o Can AC support that amount at the current convention center and area hotels? Only time will tell.

As I said previously, I'm sure all other conventions in other states and/or countries are looking at what happened to RMFC and are taking precautions and implementing measures (If they haven't done so already.) to make sure that the issues RMFC suffered do not happen to other cons.
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