Author Topic: "Get out and VOTE!"  (Read 445 times)

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Offline Holt5

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"Get out and VOTE!"
« on: October 11, 2016, 10:37:05 pm »
I just got done reading an article* about how so many celebrities and ads tell people to "go out and vote! It's your civic duty!" But is this really what we want? If someone isn't already vested enough in some particular interest to vote, what makes anyone think that such a person is going to benefit the direction in which our country takes itself politically? Economically? Militarily?

*http://qpolitical.com/24-hours-after-last-nights-debate-mike-rowe-makes-a-huge-confession-on-what-he-see-wrong-with-this-election/

Wouldn't it be more productive to instead encourage people to take an active interest in that direction and how other directions work, first and foremost? The desire to vote should be a result of the desire to change our country for the better - not to stave off the worst we have to offer until the next election.

What say the masses?   


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Offline Kobuk

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2016, 08:20:51 am »
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Now for those who think not voting is a good idea. You only hurt yourself.

Not quite true there. Yes, you are hurting yourself. But you are also hurting future generations to come. What kind of a legacy/society will you leave for your children and their children, etc. if you don't take action and vote/protest, etc.?
By not voting for or against certain things and people, future generations to come will have to live with the mistakes and consequences of those who came before them. ;)



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Offline Varg the wanderer

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 01:24:01 pm »
At this point, as I've stated before, this election is like flight 93. We know how one will end up, and it's horrific. The other might end badly too, but at least there's hope. Even if we fight and end up planting the nation into a proverbial back yard, we would have at least given it a shot rather than stood by and let disaster happen.

Or look at it like a game of Russian roulette: Would you rather play with the semi-auto pistol, or the revolver? Both might only have one round in them, but at least with the revolver I get to spin the barrel.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 01:41:25 pm »
At this point, as I've stated before, this election is like flight 93. We know how one will end up, and it's horrific. The other might end badly too, but at least there's hope. Even if we fight and end up planting the nation into a proverbial back yard, we would have at least given it a shot rather than stood by and let disaster happen.

Or look at it like a game of Russian roulette: Would you rather play with the semi-auto pistol, or the revolver? Both might only have one round in them, but at least with the revolver I get to spin the barrel.

So which one do you think is Trump and which one is Clinton?
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Offline Holt5

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 05:51:03 pm »
At this point, as I've stated before, this election is like flight 93. We know how one will end up, and it's horrific. The other might end badly too, but at least there's hope. Even if we fight and end up planting the nation into a proverbial back yard, we would have at least given it a shot rather than stood by and let disaster happen.

Or look at it like a game of Russian roulette: Would you rather play with the semi-auto pistol, or the revolver? Both might only have one round in them, but at least with the revolver I get to spin the barrel.

So which one do you think is Trump and which one is Clinton?

I'd say flip a coin.  :D
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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2016, 05:11:13 am »
I'm very glad that people vote. I prefer democracy to the alternatives, and if nobody went out and voted, there would be no democracy. I understand why there's a push on to get people to the polls, especially for people who want to get others to vote for their candidate of choice.

That said, let's look at some of the standard reasons people use to try and convince an individual non-voter, such as myself, that they should vote:


It will affect the outcome of the election.

I don't see how, especially given the Electoral College.  There have been four presidential elections (prior to this one) since I turned 18, and I'm convinced that if I went back in time and voted in any of them (for either candidate), the results would be exactly the same. Once, someone asked me if I had voted in the 2000 election, and when I said I hadn't, they blamed me for the George W. Bush presidency. But Gore carried California without me. The only possible way I might have affected the outcome is if I had lived in Florida...and then, my vote might not have been counted. More recently, someone on Facebook claimed that every non-voter "may as well be voting for Trump." Because some reason, they think non-voters are specifically not voting for their candidate of choice.


Soldiers died for your right to vote. If you don't exercise it, you're disrespecting them.

I'm glad I have a right to vote, if I should ever choose to do so. But a right to do something also implies a right not to. Soldiers also died for my right to bear arms - my choosing not to own a gun doesn't disrespect them. Soldiers died for my freedom of religion, which also includes my right to choose "none of the above," which I do.  The only thing that would be disrespectful would be giving up my right to choose. If voting ever became compulsory, it should be known as the "duty to vote." And "they died for your duty" doesn't have the same ring to it.


If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

I'm generally not interested enough in politics to have complaints on that topic, but I don't understand the reasoning behind this either. If anything, it should be, "if you vote, and you get the results you wanted, you have no right to complain." But even then, I would understand if people still complained, because they have limited options and they may still have complaints about the candidate they voted for.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 05:18:21 am by animagusurreal »


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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2016, 09:59:33 am »
Not voting may not hurt the voter, but it does surrender ones right to choose.
To say I don't care who wins.

I am sure some feel it's a way to show rebellion, but to whom? The elected man or
women wants to win even if they only got their own vote.

Now if people had to get say 50$ of the registered voters, then not voting would cause
concern for someone running for office. I fear it does little to change the thinking of
those who are elected the way it is. Voting tells those in government what we want,
not voting tells them nothing.
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 05:48:07 pm »
talked with my brother with this and one thing that might help would be negative/down votes. some people might just not care but hate one candidate the most.

Offline Chipper Blu-wolf

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 04:49:25 pm »
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If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

I've said this before and I've said this to students too.  Basically, not voting is accepting whatever is given based on others' wishes.  That sounds a lot like an oligarchy, not a republic or democracy.  The more people complain about the electoral college, the more I wonder if it needs to just be part of an equation...a combination of the popular vote percentage and the electoral college to decide a president, and not one or the other to prevent total corruption on either side.  If you get out and vote, even if the person you're voting for doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell (Gary Johnson) you're still not standing by and not letting people know there are other individuals with ideas out there worth hearing.  Look in 1992...a lot of people voted for Ross Perot, and it forced Clinton to look at some of his ideas because it was obvious the people supported those ideas.  That's why it matters.  Not voting is just wrong.  There are many out in the world that don't even have the opportunity to choose because of where they live.
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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 11:21:56 pm »
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If you don't vote, you have no right to complain.

I've said this before and I've said this to students too.  Basically, not voting is accepting whatever is given based on others' wishes.

All American citizens do this to some degree. Whether you vote Republican, Democrat, Independent or not at all, on Election Day, you're left waiting to see the result of decisions made by millions of other people, most of whom you'll never meet. Even the person elected president will be subject to this. He or she can't simply make whatever laws they want. They have to work with the decisions of others.

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...The more people complain about the electoral college, the more I wonder if it needs to just be part of an equation...a combination of the popular vote percentage and the electoral college to decide a president, and not one or the other to prevent total corruption on either side. 

This is an intriguing idea.

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If you get out and vote, even if the person you're voting for doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell (Gary Johnson) you're still not standing by and not letting people know there are other individuals with ideas out there worth hearing.  Look in 1992...a lot of people voted for Ross Perot, and it forced Clinton to look at some of his ideas because it was obvious the people supported those ideas.  That's why it matters.

I like this as a defense of voting third-party. One of my facebook friends recently asserted that voting third-party is voting for Trump, just as I mentioned earlier that someone said not voting at all is voting for Trump.

Earlier in the thread, Old Rabbit said that not voting sends the message that you don't care about who will become president. I don't think the parties will notice or care when a single person doesn't vote. If you take all the non-voters together, it might send that message, but I only have control over whether or not I vote. I feel the same about the "vote with your dollars" concept for corporations. On one of my entertainment forums, someone claimed that if you don't like the movies Hollywood puts out, you can convince them to change by which movies you see in theaters. I went to see Disney's last two hand-drawn animated movies in theaters, and they still financially underperformed, leading to Disney to shut down hand-drawn animation again. Meanwhile, I didn't go see Pixar's "Finding Dory" - the first Pixar film I didn't see in theaters since "a bug's life" - yet I doubt Pixar will care, since plenty of other people did go to see it. If not voting does send a message (not my intention, but if it happens to anyway) I'd hope it would be that the political process should be less petty and sensationalistic, and more focused on the actual issues. However, perhaps pettiness and sensationalism do motivate a lot of people do vote, and they might lose those people if they stopped using those tactics.

Voters are participating in a very important political process. However, I feel like the narrative is sometimes changed (by both parties) to "each voter is personally responsible for saving America from the UTTER DOOM of the other party's candidate winning." And that's why non-voters (as well as third-party candidate voters) are sometimes vilified as personally condemning America to that supposed DOOM.

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Not voting is just wrong.  There are many out in the world that don't even have the opportunity to choose because of where they live.

And finish your vegetables because there are people starving in (random country) ;). Much like the "solider's died for your right" guilt concept, I don't follow this one either.  There are many countries in the world where people couldn't participate in a political discussion like this, but I don't think anyone should be compelled to post in this thread if they don't want to.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 11:53:19 pm by animagusurreal »


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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 09:01:15 am »
If you don't vote the people who are elected may only follow their own ideas and
do what may benifit them personally. Even agree to deals that might hurt the
people they represent.

I am not saying all politicians are bad, but without our guidance they may
go in a direction we may not like. Even good people find they have to make
deals to get anywhere. We have to remind them there are limits to the deals
they may feel they have to make.

Though there are good reasons to not have term limits on elected officials. I
think it's a good way to help prevent big business  from buying support from those
in office. People shouldn't look at an elected office as a career, but as a service
to their country or state.



« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 09:04:06 am by Old Rabbit »
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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2016, 09:58:57 pm »
^

I agree with everything said here about politicians, especially "People shouldn't look at an elected office as a career, but as a service
to their country or state." However, I don't see the correlation between that and my personal decision to vote or not. I don't think their decisions turn on any single voter/non-voter.

Here's a musical number from the Broadway show "Hamilton" about those deals politicians sometimes make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljUxz5FYFE


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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 09:08:13 am »
^

I agree with everything said here about politicians, especially "People shouldn't look at an elected office as a career, but as a service
to their country or state." However, I don't see the correlation between that and my personal decision to vote or not. I don't think their decisions turn on any single voter/non-voter.

Here's a musical number from the Broadway show "Hamilton" about those deals politicians sometimes make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GljUxz5FYFE

My reference is to vote for people who are more concerned with service than a career. When they
think of the job as a career they become vulnerable to handing out favors wanting to keep the
office.. Also they end up spending much of their time trying to get re elected.

If no one is running except those wanting to make a career of it, contact the party of your
choice and let them know how you feel. When we sit and let the world go by it will likely find
it's own way good or bad.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2016, 11:19:42 am »
I thought I would add I think the early voting is a good
thing for everyone. It gives all parties a chance to encourage
voting either way.  I think voting should be all the way
from October 1 through the first tuesday of November. At least
for congressional races and the president.

I am a afraid though the GOP will work to do away with early
voiting. Even though they can work to get out the vote too,
I think they are afraid their opponents will use the early vote
to put them out of office in the future. It is a fact that low
turnouts favor the GOP.

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Offline Avan

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Re: "Get out and VOTE!"
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 06:44:44 pm »
...And meanwhile in california, we continue to be the joke of the general election as usual...
We still went out and voted on stuff that actually mattered and our vote counts for (state and local stuff).

In EVERY presidential election California has either:
Voted for the loser.
-or-
Voted for the winner who won by such a big margin that it wouldn't have mattered if California fell off into the pacific ocean the day before the election.
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