Author Topic: The 2nd Amendment  (Read 1178 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2016, 03:06:31 pm »
Just saw this on the news. Listen to the podcast. Not sure how factual it is. I'll have to do some research. But it may just make you rethink the 2nd Amendment and what it was for and why it was created. ;)
http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/what-you-may-not-know-about-the-second-amendment
http://www.decodedc.com/154-2/
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 08:48:13 am by Kobuk »
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Offline Yip

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2016, 09:52:38 am »
Why not women? Surely they can help defend the U.S. just as much, if not more, than the men can.
The Marine Corps actually did field tests, and found that all male combat units were better than integrated or all female units.

Citation needed.
Sure
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/10/marine-study-finds-all-male-infantry-units-outperformed-teams-women/71971416/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/09/11/navy-secretary-criticizes-controversial-marine-corps-gender-integration-study/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/gender-integration-of-marines-brings-out-unusually-public-discord.html?_r=0
Every one of those talks about the problems with the tests, and how we can't really draw any firm conclusions from it.  To bring up the tests as if it proves anything is highly misleading. Makes me wonder if you even read the articles you posted.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 12:00:39 pm by Yip »


Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2016, 06:36:45 am »
First. Their entire no registration fight is based  on money. They would loose money if their members could prove they owned the guns that got stollen.
Their absolute fear based propaganda that any mental test is going to take guns rights away.
Their complete fear based propaganda that any legislation  restricting dangerous weapons will lead to all weapons being banned.
They used to be all about gun rights, safety and training. Now their nothing more than a tin foil hat wearing disease. Screaming out fear and propaganda. Then paying politicians millions to make sure they get their way.

i dont have any proof for this but one theory that me and my brother have for all the gun supporting people's bizarre reactions/behavior is that they are scared about what might come from the laws


one thing iv realized is that many people are against guns, and want them to be completely banned, though those who are not like that want assault weapons to be banned (experience from overhearing discussions/talking to some people)

this might be making gun supporters kinda paranoid about adding any laws/rules that restrict firearms because all the good/reasonable things are just one step closer to be able to ban assault weapons or all firearms all together. so by fighting against any background check they are kinda keeping a legal bufferzone from firearms of certain types of being banned.

so i dont really blame the NRA for acting the way they are. hell i myself am kinda worried about those laws. if those laws ever get past people like Finestein might just keep pushing for more and more laws.

Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2016, 08:01:44 am »
be warned of wall of text. most of this stuff is just my guesses/opinions based on trying to find a logical answer for solutions/reasons. i got here late so that might be why this post is so long... damn just if my school had topics like this (im failing english class yet i can willingly type this in like 2 hours)

Now as for why should we have the 2nd amendment, and why guns should not be banned.
Spoiler: show


reasons to keep guns:

my first reason is that firearms are a very entertaining piece of equipment to use. iv been to shooting ranges several times and the loud noise, the strong kick of the weapons, and then the satisfaction that you were able to hit that target dead center. shooting guns is defiantly something that i'd like to do more often, and something that i enjoy. once i am in a stable life situation ill likely want to attempt to get a full auto weapon, or maybe something of more power (20+mm) if i ever make that type of money. now the thing with guns is that it actually might help with my mental health. my life is pretty horrible, i just hate it. now while it may seem like a bad idea to give me a firearm with my thoughts being like that, it actually does the opposite thing people would expect. firearms are something i enjoy and while using them im able to forget about most things in my life and just focus on something i like. if guns were banned then that's just taking away one of the things i enjoy, making the possibility of me doing something stupid more likely (and there are many things someone could do)

my 2nd reason is that firearms are useful for personal protection. if we got organized and realized how to handle guns then there would likely be good civilians with a firearm just randomly scattered around society, meaning that criminal activity/shootings will likely be stopped sooner since there might all ready be someone there who can stop it. depending on how my life goes in the future i may want to get a concealed weapon permit or if things are good for me, at least have a firearm in the car, and i really hope that ill be allowed to do that in the future for the sake of know that i have at least some form of protection/defense.

my 3rd reason is that having firearms out there shows the truth. if there were no guns the same people who did wrong would still be around/not known, and we would have a bunch of possible murderers hidden in our society. i'd rather have my enemy shooting at me than have them hidden, and having no idea who might be bad.

my 4th reason is that it might prevent worse types of killings from happened.
first- guns/shooters are easy to stop. they have around 30-100 rounds depending on what equipment they have. with the speed that they are likely shooting, the people that they get first likely take several shots making more ammo going to waste. once they are out of ammo and reloading you have a few seconds to do something (throw things, charge them, shoot them, ect) guns also easily give off their position with that large flash so you should usually easily be able to find them. another thing with guns is that the person usually has to actually be there in order to do anything (allowing for a chance to defend/get the person who did the crime)
if you take away guns you are forcing criminals to find another way to commit a crime/killing. just look at the boston marathon, or the truck killing in france. no guns were involved there yet the truck got around 100 i think, and the bomb got several though wounding many. though you canalso get things like the kill dozer a few years back (while he did have guns iv heard he barely used them). now the thing with those things is that they are far worse. bombs - can be almost untraceable, and very difficult to find out where it came from cars/trucks - very easy to get, can kill far more than guns, and keep going even once no driver, unique stuff like the kill dozer - unpredictable, unstoppable (if armored), no plans on how to deal with, ect.

and for the 5th and final reason they are there just in case the government isnt there/isnt with us.

 many people argue that our found fathers never new that civilians would be getting accurate fully automatic weapons, though the same can be said that they never knew that the government would have armored vehicles with automatic weapons, and super powerful cannons.
we are meant to have guns so that if our government is doing something wrong we could stop them.

now as for a few questions iv seen earlier
Spoiler: show

"- If guns are the greatest defense against government tyranny, people with guns should be the most confident. Yet gun advocates seem to be the most worried about tyranny, specifically that the government will take their guns away. If they believe the government can do that, then what good are the guns against tyranny?

- How would a militia armed with guns fight a government that (unlike in Jefferson and Washington's time) has access to tanks, fighter jets, missles, nuclear weapons, etc.?

- Why is it assumed that if a random assortment of gun owners seized power, that they would abuse it any less than the tyrannical government?"

im pretty sure our founding fathers original idea is that almost everyone would have a weapon, and that after they defeat the tyrannical government they will work together for a common interest, or if they cant they would fight who ever is wrong. i think they got caught up with how unified they were that they completely forgot that the original united feeling they had would not last till now.

now as for why gun owners are always scared/not confident it's possibly because the government is trying to take away their guns, and that many civilians actually support that decision. like i said our founding fathers likely expected us to be unified, but the gun owners are now fighting against the people who were meant to be on their side. and the thing is they likely believe that the government will try(not can) to take away their guns. though if it ever comes to the point of the government trying to forcibly take away guns thats when there might actually be a revolution, and they might actually fight.

devoted people will always find a way. give my brother a few days + resources and he could likely create something to kill a tank. jets require tones of fuel, after awhile of civilians not working they will have to stop using them sometime, and are almost useless for hidden targets. missiles are usually only useful if you know where your enemy is or if they have a armored vehicle, both are an unlikely thing in the case of civilians fighting against the government. now nuclear weapons... you can't use those to fight a rebellion in an area you live. if you do so you might as well not have fought. you might have survived but everything on the surface will be gone, and the land will be irradiated and useless, the fight is pretty much over for everyone.

imo the best thing to do with guns is let the people keep them. add back ground checks, and reasonable metal health tests.
though the biggest thing is to raise damn children correctly.

here's the thing.... if a child has nothing wrong with killing many people, or felt so horrible that are natural anger takes over and they just want to kill, someone in our society has failed their job, or it shows we need to work harder.
say if someone killed because of a mental disorder. we are usually able to find metal disorder like that, someone should have given them medication/therapy for, stress should have been attempted to be reduced, and if its still bad they should have been put somewhere they cant harm anyone. now if that person is killing due to feeling horrible. no one in this world who does not have a clear mental health issue should feel like that. again someone failed in this situation. now the thing with children is how the hell are they getting guns? in those cases the parents are in full blame to have not kept their guns safe (unless their child was able to crack a reasonable gun safe)


bleh so much typing.... i just realized how ridiculous this text is lol... guess might find a way to shorten it in a bit (added spoilers tabs so that im not blocking other people's posts)

Offline Kobuk

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2016, 08:07:07 am »
*tilts head and taps fingers on table*

Did anybody bother to read my post # 25 further above?
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 08:18:28 am »
*tilts head and taps fingers on table*

Did anybody bother to read my post # 25 further above?


i was making replies based on what everyone else says. while what that podcast thing might be true it still doesnt change my opinion just because of history (just like how i am not going to stop liking the tiger 1 and 2 tanks because they were used by the nazis)

i really dont care about the history of it, and my post contains reasons as to why guns should remain around.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2016, 04:29:25 pm »
Graywolf: You might not care about history and that podcast, but I do. For me, that's a piece of history I had never heard of before. And to hear it now does really make me wonder about why we have the 2nd Amendment and what it was originally for. NOT to overthrow the government, but to suppress any slave uprisings in the Colonies.
If that was the true intent of the 2nd Amendment, and I suspect and believe that it was, then one has to wonder if we really need the 2nd Amendment anymore? Should it be removed from the Constitution or should it be reworded in some form to keep allowing the American people to keep and bear arms? Slavery is dead, so the original purpose of the 2nd Amendment is null and void.

But time and time again, people keep talking about having and needing guns in case things go to hell in a handbasket so to speak and we need to rise up against the government. But do we really? I don't see martial law in American streets. I don't see soldiers on street corners. I don't see tons of things that conspiracy theorists are talking about taking place in the streets and neighborhoods of America. Yes, there is unrest, social injustice, etc. going on in America. But not to the point yet where we have to take up arms and revolt against our government.

Before we even contemplate taking up arms against the government, we should always remember that there are less violent ways to "voice" our concerns. Things such as, but not limited to: Protests, Sit-ins, Marches, Recall elections, Petitions, Impeachment of officials, and other less violent methods for a people to voice their disgust and anger at government. Once those measures have been used and exhausted, then........and only then.........as a last resort should the people take up arms against a repressive and tyrannical government. But is the U.S. Government oppressive and tyrannical? Have we become what's known as a "dystopian" society? I don't see it. All I see is a bunch of people imitating Chicken Little and screaming "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" when in actuality, it isn't. At least, not yet.
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2016, 05:25:40 pm »
what i meant is that guns should remain around. i dont care if the wording is changed around, or if the 2nd amendment is replaced, as long as they remain legal im fine with it.

also for me it isnt much about getting guns to protect from the government but to protect from other people. while i dont need a full auto carbine /assault rifle (those are sorta just for entertainment) all i'd want for protection would be a simple semi-auto handgun, and maybe some body armor.

Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: The 2nd Amendment
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2016, 10:11:16 pm »
There's also that pesky Posse Commitatus thing which prohibits use of the military against civilians in the USA.  Some folks have a problem with police receiving military surplus equipment, such as Humvees.
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