Author Topic: What makes a person gay?  (Read 8216 times)

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Offline Nyeti

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 03:02:01 pm »
im going with kobuk on this....for example,my dad.....hes very masculine.but while i may not be so manly myself,genetics are certainly not what caused me to be gay for a while.
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Offline Hashira

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2012, 03:04:49 pm »
Wasn't aware you could call into question beings that may or may not exist.

Well, when you believe God exists, you can do that. What else would I say? He's my answer :)

@Neofur: are you comparing us to animals? I don't recal humans being caged and treated like animals, do you? Animals have clean spirits anyway, they cannot sin.

Yes and no... God isn't Scientifically proven... :P BUT he is real. God loves everyone. He doesn't care if you are gay. Homosexuality is a forgivable sin.

Very true, but you must want that sin forgiven, and resolve to never commit it again, or try your best not to sin again.
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Offline Jayme the Hippie

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2012, 03:07:47 pm »
I grew up in a perfectly normal christain household. I had a mother and a father, and I have had tests done on me. I do NOT have a hormone imbalance. I am NOT Satan's evil minion. I didn't even had anything bad happen to me until my dad left when I was 12... I guess that would lead to it... If I didn't start noticing boys at ten. Well, I guess that's enough of this forum. see you everyone, the time we had was short but sweet. Maybe I can find some non-offencive ones.
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Offline Nyeti

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2012, 03:15:38 pm »
@ Jayme: theres no reason to leave man,its a debative thread,there are going to be some things said that hurt your feelings,but its your life and you can do what you want with it,there are some things on here i dont like,but im not gonna give up,peoples feelings might get hurt,but just keep moving on
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 03:16:13 pm »
Yes and no... God isn't Scientifically proven... :P BUT he is real. God loves everyone. He doesn't care if you are gay. Homosexuality is a forgivable sin.

I think you just contradicted yourself there. You say he can't be real, but then you say he is.
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Offline Jayme the Hippie

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 03:20:01 pm »
@ Jayme: theres no reason to leave man,its a debative thread,there are going to be some things said that hurt your feelings,but its your life and you can do what you want with it,there are some things on here i dont like,but im not gonna give up,peoples feelings might get hurt,but just keep moving on
I joined this forum to hopefully find some place where I ould feel equal for once. To feel like I had a nice, safe place to be myself. So I'm not staying here. Sorry to the people who were nice to me but I'll find somewhere nicer for a change.
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Offline Jet

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 03:27:44 pm »
@Neofur: are you comparing us to animals? I don't recal humans being caged and treated like animals, do you? Animals have clean spirits anyway, they cannot sin.
I really shouldn't get into this, and I almost hate myself for doing so, but animals don't have a soul. They can't sin because they dont have a soul, according to religion at least. And Humans are animals, whether being caged or treated as such. We seem to forget that having the capacity to override instinct and having thumbs isn't ground to being unrelated to animals. Basically, a Human is an animal like any other, just that we feel we are in some way better than animals and thus can't be associated as such.

And I sort of feel this is slightly one sided against gays. Could just be me. But I feel they are ok, not a sin, and I feel very bad for those gays who force themselves into a life of marriage with a woman they can't help but find revolting. Carter, the main point of sex is babies. It is still used for other purposes by both straight and gay. This eliminates that as a reason gay is wrong. Also, you are correct, God (if he does exist) does love everyone, including gays. The problem is, humans don't love easily. You may love everyone, but the majority of religious people (not just your religion) hate others that go against their religion. It's a sad thing to see and I wish it to stop, but the fact is, we are Human. And Human's are animals of sin. :P
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:31:08 pm by Jet »
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Offline Amy

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 03:29:32 pm »
This thread is becoming a bit too controversial, I think.
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Offline Acton

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2012, 03:31:21 pm »
And wheres your proof that everyone is born perfectly strait?

We are human not machines.

But let me  divert to a more secular argument; First I can not believe not scientifically proven the complexity of the human mind and behavior is a slave to genetics or  biology.  While genetics or  biology may have a factor I do not see all in all as a cause for homosexuality or heterosexuality. People do jump between  Homosexuality, Bisexuality and Heterosexuality  all the time.  Secondly from a secular philosophical view of free will, to say on on hand one is the captain of  one's own ship on the other a slave to genetics is a contradiction.  Man doesn't like to believe one is a hopeless slave to fate.  (..._ thing Beethoven's 5th fate knocking at ones door). I love to see when reasoning with a non believer, who  rejects my Christian beliefs,  say I will not  submit to your God but I will submit to my genes.
 
I will confess my argument  from the secular is  more arguing "the devils advocate" (i am not a secular  humanist but can use their  arguments)  Now as a Christian I am more closer to carter; we are in sin, but I see Christ changes us.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:36:37 pm by Acton »

Offline Jet

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2012, 03:32:00 pm »
This thread is becoming a bit too controversial, I think.
Agreed, when you get into gay = good/bad stuff it usually turns to religion and that ends badly. Both in conversation and the physical realm. :(
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 03:33:04 pm »
Everybody calm down, please!

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Offline Acton

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 03:33:19 pm »
This thread is becoming a bit too controversial, I think.
Agreed, when you get into gay = good/bad stuff it usually turns to religion and that ends badly. Both in conversation and the physical realm. :(

perhaps it need to be move to daebate

Offline Mylo

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2012, 03:34:14 pm »
Okay, here are my opinions on the topic.

Sexual orientation can be a result of hormones, genetics, life experiences, and environmental factors.  As of now, there is no test that can determine whether or not you are gay in the same way that there is no test to see what foods you will grow to like or dislike in the future.  It is a combination of mental and physical factors that, when every hormone pathway and mental thought process is mapped regarding sexual orientation, can be changed.  However, because of the plethora of combinations of the factors that influence sexual orientation, it can be variable.  Therefore, I do not believe that one is gay from birth...it is too definite to say that as there are many things after birth that can drastically change what you are.  Everyone could be born straight...there is no way to test that though, so it is not favorable to determine the sexual orientation of a person based on biological tests alone.  

On the other hand, I have several ideas as to why homosexual tendencies may occur.  It could be just a mistake in one of the many mechanisms that make up the sexual self.  It could be an evolutionary tactic to ward off overpopulation while still satisfying the needs of the population as a whole.  I don't really know.  But in all honestly, the sexual organs were designed for a man and a woman so they could have a child.  Sexual orientation is a way to handle when sexual organs are used, and if a person is gay, then that is simply a result of their biology (or perhaps mentality).

And about mentality.  Some people may say they are gay or straight, but this might be the same as the ADHD controversy, in which there is no gauge to tell whether or not someone is gay or straight to an extent as someone else. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:37:16 pm by Mylo »

Offline Jet

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2012, 03:38:42 pm »
It could be an evolutionary tactic to ward off overpopulation while still satisfying the needs of the population as a whole.  I don't really know.
But saying that would mean it's God's will to make people gay to ward off overpopulation, and that doesn't sit well with a Christian. So unfortunately, that idea was tossed ages ago. I don't doubt that could be the case though.


Now as a Christian I am more closer to carter; we are in sin, but I see Christ changes us.
But one could see it from the other side. That Christ changes nothing and we chose to change or remain the same upon our own free will. One can view it in the way they wish, but neither is wrong in their own right.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2012, 03:43:48 pm »
Moved to the Debate forum as this thread appears to be getting a bit "hot".

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Offline Acton

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 03:48:34 pm »
It could be an evolutionary tactic to ward off overpopulation while still satisfying the needs of the population as a whole.  I don't really know.
But saying that would mean it's God's will to make people gay to ward off overpopulation, and that doesn't sit well with a Christian. So unfortunately, that idea was tossed ages ago. I don't doubt that could be the case though.


Now as a Christian I am more closer to carter; we are in sin, but I see Christ changes us.
But one could see it from the other side. That Christ changes nothing and we chose to change or remain the same upon our own free will. One can view it in the way they wish, but neither is wrong in their own right.
I was being a bit verbose; I wanted to focus on the argument of once gay always gay rather than side tracking on religious beliefs.   I could go into as a Christian  who we are dead in our sin sin but Christ this his on the cross died to my sin and made me a new creation.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 10:22:40 pm by Acton »

Offline Mylo

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2012, 03:49:40 pm »
I do not understand the "argument," but I'll take a shot at it.

From the Christian perspective, sexual orientation is variable but sex is independent of this and is designed exclusively for procreation.  To engage in sex for reasons other than is considered immoral.    

From the Non-Christian perspective, sexual orientation is variable but sex is dependent on this and, while designed for procreation, can be used for other reasons.

From here, it's just a matter of what one believes rather than what one can prove.  

Offline Yip

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2012, 09:58:03 pm »
Honestly, "What makes a person gay?" is not stating the question very well as phased that way could lead to potentially biased answers. It would be better to ask "what factors effect a person's sexual orientation?" or something like that.

For those people who say they were "born" gay, I don't believe that. Nobody is born gay. There's no medical test or ultrasound, etc. that can determine if a baby is gay before it is born.  :P
Then do you also believe no-one is born straight?

In a sense, you could say everyone is born asexual, but to do so misses the point. The point is that research on the subject indicates that an individual's sexual orientation (which manifests as the individual matures) is in most cases influenced heavily by factors that are genetic and/or that occur in very early staged such as in the womb.


Offline redpaw

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2012, 10:15:10 pm »
Quote
For those people who say they were "born" gay, I don't believe that. Nobody is born gay.

Yeah I think that should be cleared up. Every child is born 'N/A' in terms of sexual preference. That's quite simple to think about, you don't have a sexual preference until you reach puberty (aka sexual maturity - the time at which you are medically considered an adult).

The question then is "Are children 'fated' to be gay/ straight/ whatever?". In terms of genetics it is still very unclear what the case is. But there is an important ethical question as to whether we should be doing research into this at all. I mean why does the gender of the partner we choose matter? Would research into the genetic components of sexual orientation ultimately lead to greater discrimination in our societies?

Offline Avan

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2012, 10:48:06 pm »
HAY GUISE

It is chemically related; this has been proven via the creation of a chemical a year or two ago which has been shown in experiments to alter the orientations of various animals (the standard lab creatures, starting with fruit flys, moving on up). No experiments on humans yet (afaik). Likely this can be attributed thus to epigenetic and genetic factors (thus environmental and hereditary for the former, and almost purely hereditary for the latter).
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Offline McMajik

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2012, 02:59:14 am »
Homosexuality is not genetic, you are not born with it.

Your qualifications in this field are where?

Offline Ickyrus

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2012, 04:14:34 am »
Homosexuality is a sin according to Leviticus, who also didn't like people mixing their cloth fibres amongst many blatantly stupid things that I bet NONE of you observe, because they're ridiculous.
BUT one must also accept that there was a much smaller population and less medicine to deal with STDs during the time of Christ (Personally, I think Jeebus would've been fine with homosexuals) and his flunkies, so it makes sense that someone would want to encourage breeding by telling everyone it was wrong, and discourage casual pleasure. However, we're in a new age and I personally believe we need to move on. We don't ~Need~ to populate, in fact, it would be better if we worked on reducing the population. We also live longer, lesbian couples can have children that are biologically theirs, gays can have surrogates and there's protections and medical support for many STIs.
But onto the topic at hand, Avan, you're wonderful. I agree that it is mostly chemical, many things can affect the chemicals in the brain so some is hereditary, but there's also plenty of environmental factors that could influence sexuality, food, weight, health, medications, etc. Hormones are variable, so it's understandable that if they affect sexuality then natural fluctuations would be expected especially during puberty. Then, as Loc pointed out, there's also the behavioural part. Naturally we want to avoid things that make us unhappy (Bad experiences with the opposite gender) and want things that make us feel good (Interactions with the same gender that may be more understanding, kinder, or just feel good) So it would make sense to want to be with whoever suits you better and what activates the pleasure centres in the brain and whatnot.
Being whateverthehellIam Trans/Pan? Bi? maybe, who knows. Could be from experience or hormonal or nothing at all. I've never been forced into the straight box by my parents, and I've been encouraged to do what makes me happy, and be myself. But I have always been squiffy and yes, before puberty I was exploring my sexuality, my childhood plushies were always gay males and often cross-dressed if that counts for anything, I spent most of my younger years with boys, playing with cars and actionmen. Then from 13 to 17 mainly spent time with girls, acting openly 'gay' with them, but I was always treated like a male, and related more with males (Not as a tomboy, more metrosexual, womanising sleazebag). Sexually, these days I lean more towards being fond of females but I personally can't tell if it's an emotional or sexual desire.
That being said, my personal views, based on sexuality being so fluid and rarely black and white, that I find it hard to say sexuality and gender exists at all outside of societal pressure. Yes, we've all got those things between our legs, but they don't have to determine who we are and what we like, and I don't intend on having mine choose for me. And I have to say, it feels natural, I'm not forcing myself to like males because I have the matching part, I'm going to go after what brings me the most happiness.
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Offline Kael

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2012, 05:07:45 am »
I want to comment, but I need time to cool down... But I agree with Saloonka.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2012, 05:35:02 am »
Quote
The point is that research on the subject indicates that an individual's sexual orientation (which manifests as the individual matures) is in most cases influenced heavily by factors that are genetic and/or that occur in very early staged such as in the womb.

And your evidence is........what?

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If you intend to make any sort of scientific, political, religious, etc. "claim" in a controversial topic, then please be prepared to back up that claim with proof of facts, figures, statistics, percentages, etc. with links to well documented references/resources.

And just as a reminder: This topic is now in the Debate forum, which means the rules for posting and having a debate are a bit more strict. Keep it civil, please. If someone or something bothers you, then don't post. Just walk away or take it to PM.
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Offline Yip

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Re: What makes a person gay?
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2012, 10:00:11 am »
And your evidence is........what?
Nice dodge of the question there. Again:
Do you also believe no-one is born straight?


Incidentally, for more reading on the topic, this wikipedia page is probably a good place to start. It covers the topic in far more detail than I could.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation