Author Topic: Politics in the USA  (Read 639 times)

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Offline Old Rabbit

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Politics in the USA
« on: November 03, 2016, 10:15:23 am »
I am sure most of us are tired of politics. I am a bit of a political junky, so
i tend to keep up on the lastest..

I used to consider myself a republican when I was younger say 30 years ago,
but with all the dirty tricks the GOP is doing these days I no longer make that
claim.

Being in business I know how much regulations make for a lot of headaches
for the small business man. Not counting taxes and rules that seem to punish
the small business.

As I have grown older I have seen many caught up in greed. Cheat their workers
when they get a chance. Forget about safety if it costs too much.

We have to have regulations to protect the average person from those who only
care about the here and now. Taxes are needed to pay for government programs
since nothing is free.

Government does need to be watched since those same greedy people make their
way into government too. After all they can make money and gain prestige by being
a Senator or Congressman, and in the process some become party bosses.

The new GOP is playing on the public discontent they created, by misleading them,
and using religious beliefs. Using dirty tactics trying to keep control of our government.
Trying their best to limit voting by people they feel would vote for their opponents.
They use the excuse of voter fraud to cover their plans to step on the poor and
disadvantaged. They don't want the government handing out money to people who
they call lazy.

I would be ashamed to be associated with people like Trump and others in the New
GOP.. It appears Trump followers torched a black church the other day.  I don't
think Trump had anything to do with it directly, but his retoric of hate may cause
even more hate crimes in the future.

There are many good republicans in government, but the bad guys threaten the good
ones. Telling them to follow or they would work to cost them their seat.

We need to support those who wish moderation and are willing to work for the good
of the country and not just for themselves.

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Offline Varg the wanderer

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 12:18:21 pm »
While I am not thrilled with the Republican party by a long shot I am appalled by the downright criminal activity of the Democrat party. The fire bombing of Trump's campaign center is reminiscent of Hitler's rise to power (complete with socialist ideals), the fact that they own and control a heavy portion of the media, and use that portion to distort, lie, and cover up truth is frightening to say the least. They campaign loudly claiming they will champion the poor, lift up the minorities, and bring unity to everyone, all while doing everything they claim the republicans do. Who shipped jobs over seas? Democrats (NAFTA, TPP, etc). Who has encourage more violence in the death of black people by police, rather than demanding peaceful protests while seeking to put a clamp on police brutality AND crime? Who had an illegal email server with CLASSIFIED materials stored on it, AND let it get hacked by Russia, AND attempted to destroy evidence? Who has done everything to get their close partners and friends to do the investigating on themselves?

Most people have forgotten: Republicans abolished slavery. Democrats supported it. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/38-2/h480 Republicans voted in a much higher percentage than the civil rights act, with many opposing it (especially compared to the percentage of opposing republicans). LBJ is even known to have said: "I'll have them (insert derogatory racial term here) voting Democratic for the next two hundred years." In the 1800's the Democrats where the party of the rich, white people. Nothing's changed. They've just moved from civil enslavement to economic enslavement. They put op a facade and pretend to help "society" while putting shackles on you and me.

The GOP has put several well qualified black candidates (many of whom I voted for) but the Democrats have always made an effort that they "weren't really black". That always stuck me as funny considering Ben Carson grew up in a very poor, single parent family in Detroit; Herman Cain, who grew up in another poor family on the west side of Atlanta; Clarence Thomas, who grew up dirt poor(literally) in a single parent home and didn't know what indoor plumbing was until he was 7; Thomas Sowell grew from 9 up in Harlem, NY, again in a single parent home. I don't need to explain what these men do now, but why do the democrats say "they aren't really black" when they rose from what the traditional story of the poor black person is to where they are now?

Because they didn't do it with any help from the government. They didn't wait for a hand out. None of them lived off of welfare and food stamps. None of them were dependent, because relying on government help doesn't get you anywhere. The Democratic party doesn't like that. Instead they haul out a half black, well-off from birth man from luxurious Hawaii and hold him on a pedestal while while encouraging the dysfunctional and destructive thug culture that is only doing these struggling neighborhoods more harm. They disgust me. This reminds me of an abusive relationship I was in where I was lied too so much that I was convinced the other person was actual on my side, all while they trapped me and sucked everything I had from me.

I hope the democrats that think they are helping (a lot do. They do attract people with big hearts) realize what they are doing and stop. That their means are destroying the ends they want.

And I hope those that do know what they are doing, and are pushing these sinister intents... well, I'd rather not go there.

The only party I get along with to the point of sending them money is the Libertarian party.

I like Ron Paul too. He's got to be the most honest politician I have ever seen.
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 07:58:54 pm »
pretty much have to agree with varg the wanderer. those are pretty much my same views as to the whole situation (there is likely more but he pointed out alot of the negative/destructive things)

Offline Holt5

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 05:38:00 am »
I have to agree with Varg. Neither party is deserving of the respect that they get anymore, in my opinion. Neither of them act transparently and their motives are never really clear - they're serving too many masters (no one really knows who or what those are apparently), and I don't feel that the well-being of the citizenry takes a particularly active role in that dynamic. In other words, they're not keeping up their half of what's supposed to be a mutually-beneficial arrangement. So long as they continue down that path, they ca4n count on losing my vote - the third-party candidates are the only ones I'm considering now: Hillary and Trump are out of the question. 
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 07:49:06 am »
the third-party candidates are the only ones I'm considering now: Hillary and Trump are out of the question.

problem with third party candidates is that they will likely never get enough votes to get anywhere close to being elected. also at this point/time it is likely best to vote for who ever you think will cause less damage and instead think about who to vote for next/look for a group you agree with. though sadly even then they will likely still not get enough votes. seems like we are going to be stuck with someone from the democratic/republican party for a long time unless people actually try to find something new.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 08:54:14 am »
I agree both partys have their faults. Though the GOP that abolished slavery
were making it hard for blacks to vote in the south. If I remember right they
felt the seperate but so called equal schools for blacks was ok.

Seems also the GOP that freed the slaves had many members in the KKK.
Including Trumps father which D Trump felt was right about everything.
Grand wiszard David Duke is running for senate in Louisiana as a republican.

I was watching a congressional committee that happened to be chaired by
a republican ignore a black democratic lmember of congress. At least till he
practically had to shout to remind the chairman he had the right to speak.

The GOP run state of N.C. was taken to  federal court because they are
trying to lkeep thousands of minorities  from  voting.  The GOP went to the
supreme court to weaken voting laws, and were partially successful.

When it comes to starting wars I think you will find the GOP do their
part. Both of the Bush's while president first sent troops into Irac.

I don't doubt there are people on each side that have done bad things,
but it seems the GOP is currently leading the pack.

Perhaps when Trump wins he will let the Russians invade Europe so
Putin can restore the Soviet Union. Perhaps all the way to the coast
of France.  That is why is why Putin supports Trump for President.

I hope I am wrong, but history has shows when people allow another
country to get by with aggression to keep the peace it rarely stops.
Perhaps Putin is different. Of course if Trump is on Putins side all
may be well.

Oh yes Trump claims to be for USA jobs, but he buys from countries
around the world. Where  ever it's the Cheapest.  Steel and Aluminum
from China for the large buildings he has had built. I think we can see
he like many rich people worry more about the dollar than who does
the work.
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Offline Holt5

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 09:02:01 am »
the third-party candidates are the only ones I'm considering now: Hillary and Trump are out of the question.

problem with third party candidates is that they will likely never get enough votes to get anywhere close to being elected. also at this point/time it is likely best to vote for who ever you think will cause less damage and instead think about who to vote for next/look for a group you agree with. though sadly even then they will likely still not get enough votes. seems like we are going to be stuck with someone from the democratic/republican party for a long time unless people actually try to find something new.


That's totally true - I'm quite sure my candidate will not win the election at this rate, but I'd rather be a loser and right with my conscience than vote for someone I'm going to be ashamed to associate with - even if one were to be a little more convenient to my disposition than another.
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Offline Holt5

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 09:19:58 am »
I agree both partys have their faults. Though the GOP that abolished slavery
were making it hard for blacks to vote in the south. If I remember right they
felt the seperate but so called equal schools for blacks was ok.

Seems also the GOP that freed the slaves had many members in the KKK.
Including Trumps father which D Trump felt was right about everything.
Grand wiszard David Duke is running for senate in Louisiana as a republican.

I was watching a congressional committee that happened to be chaired by
a republican ignore a black democratic lmember of congress. At least till he
practically had to shout to remind the chairman he had the right to speak.

The GOP run state of N.C. was taken to  federal court because they are
trying to lkeep thousands of minorities  from  voting.  The GOP went to the
supreme court to weaken voting laws, and were partially successful.

When it comes to starting wars I think you will find the GOP do their
part. Both of the Bush's while president first sent troops into Irac.

I don't doubt there are people on each side that have done bad things,
but it seems the GOP is currently leading the pack.

Perhaps when Trump wins he will let the Russians invade Europe so
Putin can restore the Soviet Union. Perhaps all the way to the coast
of France.  That is why is why Putin supports Trump for President.

I hope I am wrong, but history has shows when people allow another
country to get by with aggression to keep the peace it rarely stops.
Perhaps Putin is different. Of course if Trump is on Putins side all
may be well.

Oh yes Trump claims to be for USA jobs, but he buys from countries
around the world. Where  ever it's the Cheapest.  Steel and Aluminum
from China for the large buildings he has had built. I think we can see
he like many rich people worry more about the dollar than who does
the work.


I honestly believe the main point of this corruption (or justification of it, more likely) is for the sake of perpetuating the Democrat vs Republican shtick.

"Right-wing is being bad! The only one that can defeat them is the Left-wing!"

Left-wing wins - does what it needs to do. Eventually people get tired of left-wing corruption, so they call in the Right-wing.

"Left-wing is being bad! The only one that can defeat them is the Right-wing!"

Ad infinitum, and it only gets the politicians what they want - common citizens aren't succeeding in this format.

It was the same thing that happened when Bush was elected, wasn't it? And Clinton? And Bush again? I may not have been of a mature age during any of those elections, but that's certainly how it's been playing out since switching from Bush to Obama, and now to one of perhaps the two most scandalous people ever to become candidates. The GOP can be poo-pooed all day long, but if it only circles around to getting help from the DNC it's not going to do anything.
"If you wait until you can do everything for everybody, instead of something for somebody, you will end up not doing anything for anybody." - Malcolm Bane

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 09:56:01 am »
Third party or less don't expect to win. They are trying to change how people
feel about things. To pull them over to their side so to speak.

They are looking to the future. If they can get 5$ of the vote the government
will match funds they can use to run next time.

Ross Perot of the Reform Party got 19% of the vote back in the 1992 presidentual
election. He tried again in 1996 if I remember right he go 7%..

It's likely the country will stay a 2 party system. It's possible we may see
congressmen and Senators from other parties, but probably not that  many.
I think Sanders is a Independant, but usually votes with Democrats.

They will continue trying to change the minds and platforms of the 2 main
parties.. Sanders did change the democratic platform with his bid for the
parties candidate for president.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 10:01:52 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2016, 03:38:47 am »
Oh yes Trump claims to be for USA jobs, but he buys from countries
around the world. Where  ever it's the Cheapest.  Steel and Aluminum
from China for the large buildings he has had built. I think we can see
he like many rich people worry more about the dollar than who does
the work.

if trump were to buy resources made in the US for any of the things i does i have a feeling he would lose alot of money fast, and would likely not be able to compete with other companies.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2016, 08:11:52 am »
Oh yes Trump claims to be for USA jobs, but he buys from countries
around the world. Where  ever it's the Cheapest.  Steel and Aluminum
from China for the large buildings he has had built. I think we can see
he like many rich people worry more about the dollar than who does
the work.



if trump were to buy resources made in the US for any of the things i does i have a feeling he would lose alot of money fast, and would likely not be able to compete with other companies.


Interesting thought.. Are you saying US companies charge too much for
their products? US workers make too much money?  I doubt if many
people who work in the USA would agree with you.  Of course it is true
most people buy foreign products due to price, but I think someone running
for president claiming to be for USA workers should prove it by buying
US products, and not go to other countries to have products made.

Perhaps Trump will get congress to lower prices, and wages so he can
and others can afford to support US Jobs. Trump did say he thought the
minimum wage shoould be lowered.



« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 08:22:44 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2016, 04:24:08 am »
i never said that US companies charge too much, they charge a reasonable price. its foreign products that have prices too low.

if he really does want to lower minimum wage then i disagree with that.


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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2016, 10:11:43 am »
i never said that US companies charge too much, they charge a reasonable price. its foreign products that have prices too low.

if he really does want to lower minimum wage then i disagree with that.
You said the following.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if trump were to buy resources made in the US for any of the things i does i have a feeling he would lose alot of money fast, and would likely not be able to compete with other companies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who makes the resources available if not companies?  I am sure he could save
money buying from other countries.  But how does his buying there help
working people here, when he anc other businesses reach out of our
country for products and workers.

I admit Trump is hard to follow when it comes to the minimum wage.

Here is a link to Trumps indecision on the minimum wage. He apparently
doesn't want to set a floor for the minimum wage. Just let the states
set the wage. Not much said about federal workers though.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trumps-line-the-minimum-wage-isnt-what-it-appears-be



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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 03:43:13 am »
well atm trump is helping provide construction jobs, and jobs in other places he has (like his buildings) if he buys resources from american companies he cant really build up his companies or whatever that fast due to having less money.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2016, 09:23:45 am »
Many developers like Trump do create jobs, but I have also seen after being
in the construction trade most of my life. They often bring in their own people
and materials to increase their profits more than anything else.

Trump brags about all the jobs he created. Many have been found to be filled by
illegal aliens hired by the contractors he has used.. One could say he did it to save
money so he could do the project. Granted home people that are skilled do require
higher wages. People living in the US have higher living expenses than they do
in third world countries. There are many living expenses like health care, food,
home insurance, cars need insurance. It's almost impossible to exist on a $7.50
hour minimum wage. So often both parents work. Even $15.00 is a scratch
existence for many familys.

Trump and many rich people are against $15.00 an hour. Even Clinton isn't pushing
for that much. $12.00 or so I think, but shooting for more. Corporations will always
be trying to get labor on the cheap. Not so much to survive, but to make more
money.

We have jobs gone wanting in this country that locals don't want to do, because
it's hard uncomfortable work or dirty hands labor. So aliens come along and take
them. They work,  send the money home and meny times return to their country
when the need is filled.

This is why I keep saying "Change Congress and the Senate. They make the laws
for our country. The president only signs or rejects them. The congress cut food
stamps by 5 billion dollars a couple years ago, then increased substidies for rich
farmers, and corporations. The GOP claims handouts cause dependance on
government, so  why give hand outs to the rich? They bury these things in other
bills to get them signed by the president. To keep the government running even.

I hope who ever wins do what they say they want to do. So many times it's all
just hot air to get elected. No matter what which party says.  I plan to keep up
with Trump or Clinton. To report here on what the winner does, and what the
congress does to help or prevent good things for our people.
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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2016, 09:41:51 am »
We have jobs gone wanting in this country that locals don't want to do, because
it's hard uncomfortable work or dirty hands labor. So aliens come along and take
them. They work,  send the money home and meny times return to their country
when the need is filled.

I hope who ever wins do what they say they want to do. So many times it's all
just hot air to get elected. No matter what which party says.  I plan to keep up
with Trump or Clinton. To report here on what the winner does, and what the
congress does to help or prevent good things for our people.

well in that case its kinda our fault for not wanting to work those jobs. of course if the conditions are ridiculous then it makes sense, though if they are then they should be changed to be more suitable for american workers.

well posting here about what happens will be greatly appreciated, just be careful with the sources you chose even the most trustworthy seeming places arent really. wished i could do the research but too busy trying to fix my life, and get through school so its pretty difficult.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2016, 10:13:04 am »
We have jobs gone wanting in this country that locals don't want to do, because
it's hard uncomfortable work or dirty hands labor. So aliens come along and take
them. They work,  send the money home and meny times return to their country
when the need is filled.

I hope who ever wins do what they say they want to do. So many times it's all
just hot air to get elected. No matter what which party says.  I plan to keep up
with Trump or Clinton. To report here on what the winner does, and what the
congress does to help or prevent good things for our people.

well in that case its kinda our fault for not wanting to work those jobs. of course if the conditions are ridiculous then it makes sense, though if they are then they should be changed to be more suitable for american workers.

well posting here about what happens will be greatly appreciated, just be careful with the sources you chose even the most trustworthy seeming places arent really. wished i could do the research but too busy trying to fix my life, and get through school so its pretty difficult.

I get most of my info from MSnbc. I have found them to be balanced in their reporting.
They do lean toward the left, but they are always open to all party pundants and
politicians. I also watch Meet the press on Sundays. They often have panel talks
with people who are from different parties and beliefs.

I will also try to post links so one can read news reports as they wish.

If someone feels I have mis represented something feel free to say so,
but I would like to see more than just an opinon.
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Offline Avan

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2016, 08:02:36 pm »
We're done with American politics personally, and just sort of American in general.

(Side note: anyone who wants to claim things about the parties long ago, the lines start to blur really badly because they have flipped around back and forth a lot over positions. Furthermore both parties have engaged in moronic and sometimes outright criminal behavior at times throughout history - but again, thats history)

Currently we tend to vote democratic because they're less authoritarian-right than the republicans (thought not at all as much as we'd like), but both parties are in that quadrant of the political spectrum right now... Just one moreso than the other. Overall though the current Republican establishment has been advocating for deplorable things though that we cannot possibly stand for, even in cases when the democrats are either being not much better or stupid in their own way. And with a political system like this, why bother wasting votes on anyone except someone from one of the major parties? Its really annoying. We need instant runoff (aka preferential) voting.

In the long run though? We want California to be free.

We're tired of our tax money going to subsidize red states, tired of our tax money going towards stupid wars, tired of stupid wars making enemies likely to target the very people who wanted to oppose them (urban areas are particularly blue), tired of being marginalized by the way the federal government works, tired of two parties trying to pander to swing state voters of which california couldn't possibly be closer, tired of budget problems being inflicted on us by the red-state subsidies and military spending, tired of having some of the worst infrastructure and schools in the nation because.. again.. our tax money is being stolen for stuff we dont even want to spend it on, tired of being on fire and in a state of drought because the feds cant manage the land correctly (they have over half the land in the state) and sell off our water and other natural resources really cheaply without any of that money going to us. This is ridiculous and needs to stop.

Anyone who thinks that we can't survive without the rest of the united states is in for a rude awakening.
California suffers BECAUSE of America, not because of itself.
Without the rest of America to hold us down, we can pay off our debt (Even the debt we'd get saddled with when exiting most likely, since we'd likely have to take a per-capita chunk of the national debt)
Without the rest of America, nothings stopping us from charging companies for water extracted from federal lands, and managing them correctly so we actually *get* water. And of course spending money on desalinization technology we already developed with Israel... except we couldn't build it for ourselves since our money had to go to red states and war. (And if America tries to shut off the water, they lose around 50 major crops which are supplied exclusively from California!)
Without the rest of America, we can spend money on schools and infrastructure instead of.. red states and war.
Without the rest of America, our votes for the top offices will actually matter.
Without the rest of America, we can participate in the international community and help positively influence things.
Without the rest of America, theres little to stop us from expanding our personal and civil freedoms.

Just how independent can we be?

Well, we're the 6th biggest economy in the world and catching up to Britain (And if Brexit goes through, we could very well overtake them and become the 5th) - we'd thus instantly qualify to be in the G8 (Sorry Italy, its definitely nothing personal)
We've got a huge demographic and biodiversity, with defensible borders and a strong technology base.
We have a population bigger than Canada (And our economy is bigger too)
We could spend only 1% of our GPD on military and still be one of the biggest military powers in the world - the United states spends ~3% - which when converted to a raw amount of money is several times more overall than the runner-up, China. (By 'one of the biggest', I mean ~15th, with a bigger military than Canada). If we continued to spend ~3%, we'd have a ridiculously oversized military bigger than Russia's. Though that would ridiculous and silly to do.

California has the money, population, and governance infrastructure to survive on its own. And we think we can do much better than merely 'survive'.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2016, 08:52:22 pm »
In a matter of hours, the American populace tomorrow will go out and vote for who they want to be the next President of the United States. Either Hillary Clinton or Donald J. Trump.

I am not going to say who I am voting for or if I even will vote. What I can say is this: IMO, I feel this has been the most disgusting Presidential election I have ever witnessed and probably the most disgusting in the history of the United States.  >:( I actually feel ashamed to be an American, to live in America, and to vote tomorrow.  :(  :P  Words can barely describe how I feel about this whole Presidential Election mess.

Who is the better candidate to lead this nation? I don't like Clinton. But I also don't like Trump even more.  >:( If only we had someone like Abe Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, or George Washington leading this country again. But the odds of getting people like that again are long gone and I fear we will never see the likes of those kinds of people ever again in this country's future.  :'(

Is Donald Trump the right candidate to lead this nation? IMO, I don't think so. Here's how I think of him:
Pathological liar
Egotist
Rude
Arrogant
Bombastic
Racist
Hypocrite
Bigoted
Bad temperment.
Megolomaniac (Well, not really. Maybe a little.)
Only cares about making money.
Doesn't pay his share of taxes or refuses to disclose his taxes.
Belittles, demeans, etc. comments about women and various minorities.
Makes sexist comments towards women.
Wants to build a wall between Mexico and the U.S.
Incites racism, hatred and violence at his political rallies.
Wants to bring back a torture technique called "waterboarding".
Wants to deport millions of Muslims and various other immigrants.
Has very little to no political experience. His only "experience" is building and operating hotels, restaurants, casinos, and golf courses. That to me is not the right "experience" to run this country.  >:(

There's more I could say, but that's just a sample list.

As for Clinton:
Liar (At least about her emails. But I'll give her credit for apologising about it.)
Hiding and/or lying about facts about the Clinton Foundation and what it does, etc.
Has 5x more "political experience" than what Trump has.

There's more I could say about Clinton, but I'm tired and I'll just leave it at that for the moment.

A lot of people (The candidates as well as the American people.) have said that Trump and Clinton will "Do this" and "Do that", etc., etc., etc. throughout the election campaign. But will they? Everything Trump and Clinton have said throughout the election campaign has been words. Just words. Nobody knows for sure what either one will really do until one of them gets into office on January 1st. As the old saying goes: "Actions speak louder than words.".  And anything either candidate does do (Particuarly if it's Trump) will still have to meet the approval and review of not just the American public, but Congress as well. ;)

I'm tired of this whole 2016 Presidential Election. And I'm sure most of you are to. I used to think and believe in the old phrase "United We Stand", but I'm not so sure anymore. Now it seems like America is more "Divided We Fall".  :( And who has caused most of America to be divided? IMO, I feel it is Trump with all his bombastic attitude and tone. No other person in American politics has done more to divide this nation and it's people than the filthy rhetoric coming from Donald J. Trump's filthy mouth.  >:( Well, ok......maybe the media too. Sometimes, it's a little hard to know who to trust and what facts to believe in from various sources.

And divided this nation has become. More racism on the streets. More anti-Muslim rhetoric. Friends, family, and neighbors "unfriending" each other. Attacks against minorities and various ethnic groups. Attacks on Trump supporters. Attacks on Clinton supporters. Fire bombings of campaign offices. Hacking of political websites. Claims of voter fraud and rigged elections.

I thought America was better than this. I guess not.  :( Instead of the American people voting with reason and restraint, we are now voting with our "unchecked emotions".

This whole election has turned ugly. And for what? To get Trump to release his taxes? To release all of Hillary's 30,000 emails she deleted? I couldn't give a crap about Trump's taxes or Hillary's emails right now. Well, I could. I'm just as concerned and curious about them as the next person. But it seems like those two things are the only things that have taken center stage in this election while everything else like issues of healthcare, social security, jobs, etc. has taken a backseat.


As far as Trump and Wikileaks is concerned: SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTHS ABOUT HILLARY'S EMAILS! I'M SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THEM!

What I am concerned about and what I want to hear about, and I think what most of America REALLY wants to hear about are the issues of healthcare, immigration, social security, defense, trade, jobs, education, energy, etc.  If Trump's taxes and Hillary's emails are so damn important, then the truth and facts about them will eventually get out in due time. But I really couldn't care about that right now. What we need to concentrate on is the "here and now". The taxes and emails are the "past". It's time to stop beating a dead horse about them.

When you go out and vote tomorrow, think clearly and rationally about what you want and who you want to lead this country. And in the few hours that are left before voting starts, do your research about various issues and where the candidates stand on them. Follow your heart. Don't let friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, etc. bully and intimidate you into picking a candidate that you don't want.

And with all that being said,


GET  OUT  AND

VOTE! !
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2016, 09:13:53 pm »
So you want California to secede from the rest of the United States, Avan? Has this Presidential Election become so bad that you'd actually wish that? If you really don't like what's going on in this country and the political system running it, I can suggest a less extreme option: Go live in another country.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2016, 09:51:45 pm »
P.S. -  You know, I keep hearing and reading about how people think this is the worst America has become and how people have no faith in their leaders anymore. I kinda get that way too sometimes. But remember this, if you think it's "bad" here, it can always be "bad" somewhere else. There are plenty of other countries in the world that don't nearly have the freedoms and liberties that America has. No voting. No education. No freedom of religion. Restrictive media. And so much more. So be glad for the freedoms and liberties you do have. For there are plenty of other nations that have nothing. Nobody ever said running a country was going to be easy or perfect. No system of government will ever be perfect. There are going to be pros and cons. You can't have one without the other. ;)

So before you go and think about secession or other "extreme" measures, decide for yourself if things really are as bad as you think they are? Last time I checked, I didn't have to show my ID to buy a hamburger from McDonalds. There were no gun emplacement towers at the Toll Booths when going from Wisconsin to Illinois. And I can build my model kits any way I want to and there's no cop or military man that's gonna bust down my door and tell me I'm building it wrong.

Just because a Democrat or Republican is bad doesn't mean the whole lot of Congress is bad. There are good people with good intentions and interests too. What is "bad" is the special interest groups, lobbyists, and big businesses who are "perverting and corrupting" our government. THAT is what we need to control and manage.
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Offline Avan

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2016, 09:58:51 pm »
So you want California to secede from the rest of the United States, Avan? Has this Presidential Election become so bad that you'd actually wish that? If you really don't like what's going on in this country and the political system running it, I can suggest a less extreme option: Go live in another country.
1) This is a common sentiment among Californians - Do you expect a major portion of California to just pack up and leave? (Maybe we'll pack up the whole state and sail the pacific plate off into the Pacific, hue hue hue)
2) California has certain benefits that grant us job security & certain intellectual property rights we can't get anywhere else on the planet
3) We'd likely be facing a lot of 'you're overqualified' elsewhere anyways - except for stuff that would require a foreign security clearance that we obviously wouldn't have, not immediately anyways - the jobs that would hire us are all located here.
4) Taking an 'America-first' approach towards countering Californian independence is a rather values-conflicted view, given that we're trying to get out from under someone else's thumb, while you're suggesting that we should stay under that thumb - for your (The rest of the United State's) own benefit. We have the right to NOT be treated like a colony, thank you very much.

If we as californians want self-determination, thats our right to request.

And no, its not just this election that did it. Theres a whole slew of problems we mention, if you read the post.

Re: Post Script:
There are also countries with a heck of a lot more freedom. America does not rank that highly for freedom, in fact, among the developed world its got some rather bad statistics.
We're not content to just bow our heads to the status quo anymore and let a bunch of states that want to deprive us of our personal and civil liberties eat half the cake that we bake, and then laugh at us for not having enough cake.
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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2016, 11:16:56 am »
I voted so I will wait to find out which canidate I voted for lost.  I live
in a heavily Republican area. All local races don't even have democratic
candidates. Guess they figure it's a waste of money to try.

I hope everyone gets what they want in the coming 2 to 4
years. But I am sure some won't get what they want no matter
who wins.

There is always another election. Many parts of the world elections
are just window dressing. I hope it doesn't become that way here.

« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 11:26:43 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Politics in the USA
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2016, 11:29:19 am »


Did you?  *points to everyone else on Furtopia*

Will my vote or anyone else's make a difference? Hard to say. We won't really know until the next President starts his/her job on January 1st and starts working the next several days, weeks, months, and years. As I said earlier, Actions speak louder than words. ;)

And for those who didn't vote and don't think it's worth it, you have no right to complain. You had your chance to vote, but you gave up. And in my eyes, that just makes you a loser. Or better yet, a coward.  >:(
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