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Did he deserve this?

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Author Topic: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.  (Read 5074 times)

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Offline Onion

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Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« on: October 12, 2009, 05:30:13 pm »
Young Zachary (Cub Scout) Was excited. He had just joined the scouts. An age old american tradition. And an enduring sign of patriotism. Excited, he brought his scout eating utincel to school. and was not only suspended for it, but also faces 45 days in reform school. Is this fair?!  >:(

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?no_interstitial

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 06:07:49 pm »
Zero tolerance policies = "We don't want to use our brains anymore"

I can see him getting some sort of punishment. Maybe just the suspension...if that. Even that seems too strong to me in this case. Personally, I think that if the family can do it, they should completely snub the school and just home school him all together if the school district is gonna be that anal about things. Besides, home school kids typically do much better in education IIRC.
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 06:54:36 pm »
That's not a knife! That's a knife!

Offline Kay Alett

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 07:22:09 pm »
...And some wonder why I have no faith in humankind...

This is an unjust and unfair punishment that is way too harsh for someone so young. If schools are going to act this stupid then all children should be home schooled, put the whole system out of business and out of our misery.
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Offline Relaxing Dragon

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 08:17:19 pm »
I've seen those things, the knife part tends to be no more sharper than the plastic knives they hand out in the cafeteria anyway. I do declare this to be a hefty case of BS.
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Offline Onion

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 08:25:55 pm »
I think this is horrorble. how can a first grade be treated this way. I remember when scout could come to school fully equiped and no one cared. heck they even did stuff to raise money for the school. this is just deplorible.

Offline Avan

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2009, 08:53:09 pm »
What a moronic, paranoid policy!
Somebody needs to be sent back to kindergarten- and it certainly isn't the kid!
*sigh*
District policy makers...
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Offline Arbutus

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2009, 09:36:12 pm »
Zero tolerance policies = "We don't want to use our brains anymore"

Word. This should be a reminder that occasionally, people with power really are just morons.

Offline KitsuNinja

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 01:38:57 pm »
Wow.

The stupidity of humans baffle me sometimes.

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Offline Alsek

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 04:56:05 pm »
"He brought a weapon to school!"

"...Yeah,  6 year old cub scout...  could have totally gone bazerk and harmed someone...  that thing's almost as sharp as a butter knife!1!!"

Yeah...  ...That was his master plan...

Good thing we had a zero tolerance policy to stop him...

Offline chaosscizzors

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2009, 01:13:49 pm »
another victim of the human condition lol.
when i was a kid i got in trouble over something similar. i brought one of those guns with the caps that pop when you pull the trigger (i forget what they're called) and almost got suspended for having it in my backpack the entire day. what's really sad is they thought it was a squirt gun, which (i would think) is marginally less dangerous than the gunpowder. >_>

it's one thing to be safe and restrict these things but if it really came down to it they can more than easily restrain a child. lord knows they had no problem doing it to me and i didn't even carry a FAKE weapon on my in school.

edit: i just noticed i never actually answered the question lol.
no he did not deserve any punishment. if he really was a danger he could just as easily beat down another kid with his fists.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 01:16:01 pm by chaosscizzors »

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2009, 02:40:54 pm »
Well the school board turned down the 45 day reform school punishment and were quoted as wondering why the school was so strict with the rule (um... hello. Zero Tolerance policy?). He was out for 2 weeks, but I think as far as his record goes, they're calling it a 5 day suspension, and the policy was also changed to be more lenient on Kindergardeners and 1st graders.
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Offline Onion

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2009, 03:00:40 pm »
Well the school board turned down the 45 day reform school punishment and were quoted as wondering why the school was so strict with the rule (um... hello. Zero Tolerance policy?). He was out for 2 weeks, but I think as far as his record goes, they're calling it a 5 day suspension, and the policy was also changed to be more lenient on Kindergardeners and 1st graders.

Thats great!  :D

but I still think they need to stop and reflect on rules they set. And hopefuly they will change more rules to better fit the atmosphere. Rather then changing a few things just to shut everyone up. >:(

Offline Savaaha

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2009, 03:38:15 pm »
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Offline Sskessa

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2009, 05:32:16 pm »
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2009, 05:40:23 pm »
I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?

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Offline Onion

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2009, 05:43:55 pm »
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?

I aree with you there. but this is a multiple issue and as far as I am concerned. The american school systems are suffering bad.

Not only are we being out ranked by other countries. But they are cutting days and hours out of school weeks because of the economy. I think this is a huge mistake. We should be trying to incourage Education and progression. Not robbing them of valueble time they could be using to provide a future for them selves. And hopefuly stimulating an almost dead economy. -sigh-
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 05:46:25 pm by Moon Dogy »

Offline Avan

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2009, 06:42:24 pm »
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?
Well, technically it is a sepparate problem, but they simply try not to fix the real problem by replacing it with another that is 'easier' for them to use.
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Offline Alsek

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2009, 06:57:56 pm »
The schools and most other systems are dropping their own ability to differentiate.  For whatever reason,  they want to go to a cold list of rules that are followed to the letter as opposed to following the spirit or intention of the law.  That's why they can seem to tell the difference between the sweet, harmless, cub scout, Zachary with his eating utensils,  and the kid sitting on the other side of the room with a creepy grin holding a butcher knife.  No one wants to take the risk of being a fair judge.

Offline Hyger

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 07:00:46 pm »
It's still a knife, the kid is old enough to realize that. It's just not safe to bring that stuff to school.

Offline Avan

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 07:44:50 pm »
The schools and most other systems are dropping their own ability to differentiate.  For whatever reason,  they want to go to a cold list of rules that are followed to the letter as opposed to following the spirit or intention of the law.  That's why they can seem to tell the difference between the sweet, harmless, cub scout, Zachary with his eating utensils,  and the kid sitting on the other side of the room with a creepy grin holding a butcher knife.  No one wants to take the risk of being a fair judge.
Perhaps it might have something to do with lawyer-phobia?

It's still a knife, the kid is old enough to realize that. It's just not safe to bring that stuff to school.
Uh huh. There are plenty of 'allowed' items that are more dangerous than butterknifes. I guess it's not safe to bring those items as well. To name a few:
writing instruments (pencils and pens are quite good at stabbing, and mathematically, it can be illustrated that when provided with the same force, they have a much higher chance at penetration than a butterknife, which is often as dull or duller, and is nice and rounded to boot)
backpacks (well, maybe not at his grade level, but with packs reaching into the 30lb range on occasion, it wouldn't be hard to pack a pack full of bricks or other hard and massive weights and use it for malicious intent)
hands (a work entitled 'how to kill someone with your bare hands' (sorry lol, I just had to add the portal reference, but seriously, it says it all))
food (food allergies? chocking? food-borne-illnesses?)
DHMO (See http://www.dhmo.org for more details)
school projects (I once built a catapult that could smash golfballs against a wall, damaging both the balls and the wall rather evidently. (the catapult even damaged itself: the arm chopped right though a 3 inch thick set of layered particle boards, so I rebuilt it with metal reinforcements) It was for a competition in which we would be lobbing tennis balls around campus)
plants and fungi (a number of them are poisonous yet rather innocuous looking)
other assorted allergy sources (self explanatory)
Anything heavy (see backpack reason)
vehicles (on a highschool campus at any rate...)
bacteria and viruses

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
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Offline Hyger

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 07:50:22 pm »
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Yes, but a knife is KNOWN to be dangerous. Its only purpose is dangerous. You don't need it for school, either. It's just as dumb as bringing a gun to school, even if you don't intent to use it.

Offline Onion

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2009, 09:38:33 pm »
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Yes, but a knife is KNOWN to be dangerous. Its only purpose is dangerous. You don't need it for school, either. It's just as dumb as bringing a gun to school, even if you don't intent to use it.

Um the boy was like 5 years old. I highly doubt he understood the full consaquinces of his actions. Lets think logicaly here. Children do dumb things. Thats mostly because they dont understand things like adults do.

I am not argueeing whether it is right or wrong. I am mainly attacking the issue of understanding.

Children dont fully understand Life or death. They have not experinced the world enough to know the things we know. Yes I agree they are not with out their wrongs. But It is not conducive to harshly punish them on matter we understand fully. And yet they understand so little of. I believe that each situation should be handled with Calm Understanding. Obviously he was intending to eat with it. Had the staff took the time to analyze the situation, rather then jumping to conclusions. He probably would have had the utincle comphiscated, his parents called, and more or less a write up or detention.

I say punishment should be proportional to the crime. You would'nt Kill a shop lifter, and you sure would'nt Arrest a simple J walker or speeder.

Lets reverce roles here.

For now on you must avoid the white tyles as not to die from lava :D. Brocoli Is completely illegal >:(. Desert MUST come befor Dinner (:! And anyone who does not obey the leader goes to jail x_x! And no matter what! The Cowboy is always the good guy 8). And all who do not obey Princess timpultan  (A puppy) Are Icky and bad! :(  Oh and girl are eeeeew! :D And boys Drull! >:(

This does'nt make much sence in the real world. What makes you think our rules make sence to them. thats why we must act and give punishment according to the crime. As to teach them right from wrong. That way our rules makes sence to them when they are grown up.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:43:26 pm by Moon Dogy »

Offline Avan

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 11:30:07 am »
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)
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Offline KitsuNinja

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Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 05:51:48 pm »
Since Colombine. (that's how you spell it, right?)

You should have seen it when people who didn't like me too well spread a rumor that I had a hit list (I didn't. I would never have.). You should have seen how close I was to being expelled.
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