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not-so-furry discussion => general non-furry discussion => Topic started by: PsychotixxFoxx on December 04, 2011, 10:20:57 am
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http://newsvoice.se/2011/12/02/us-senate-declares-the-entire-usa-to-be-a-battleground/
Basically it was passed last night that police/military can arrest, detain, interrogate, and perhaps assassinate American citizens if deemed a "terrorist." Wake up, people, 9/11 was 10 yrs ago, and this is actually turning our government into the terrorist. It's scary and sickening, but it'll finally give them a use for all those FEMA camps and stacks of plastic coffins they've been hiding and saving away.
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Before we all go and cry "Foul!" and start sprouting conspiracy theories, etc., etc., etc., I for one would like to see a link to the actual bill and the exact wording in that bill where it talks about detaining American citizens and such. I think it's best if we do our research first and read what this is all about before we start raising a ruckus. ;) Here's at least one link I can provide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act
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http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h1540/show
I'll read into it a bit and look for the wording. I'm very much into conspiracy theories, especially since most are true, and after all, America is one of the most hypocritical and secretive countries in the world. So much is hidden from the public, and covered up, that it wouldn't be surprising to me if this bill is exactly what they are saying it is: the first step into a police state. But as you said, research must be done first. So that's why I'm sharing it with the forum: maybe someone knows something I don't! :)
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Sect 1034 says something about it.. "(4) the President’s authority pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority to detain belligerents, including persons described in paragraph (3), until the termination of hostilities."
Still reading it tho!! :D
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I'm very much into conspiracy theories, especially since most are true.
I could argue against that. When someone thinks about conspiracy, they think about Roswell, and what happened there. Aliens. This has been disproved due to a series of declassified documents, and a book released this year about it. Area 51: An Uncensored History of Americas Top Secret Military Base.
What had happened was that an old Nazi scientist had defected to the Soviet Union during WWII. Because of this, he was able to keep up his experimentation on human beings. Hitler may have been bad, but Stalin was worse. They had also gotten flying saucer documentation. Now, the flying saucer, like a flying wing shape is extremely unstable in air flight, more-so than the wing. The wing cannot enter into a roll to adjust its yaw, as the thing will tumble out of the sky. The Germans found this to be true during thier WWII antics. So did we. So, we applied Fly-By-Wire to keep it stable in flight, and added flapperons, so the B2 could work on its Yaw-axis. The flying saucer? Well, it should just be scrapped, and never ever fly it is so bad.
So, Stalin developed them, and sent them into Roswell to try and instigate another War of the Worlds incident, something that had only happened several years before. Two days of mass hysteria. After everything was sorted out, every single world leader looked at it, and looked into phys. warfare to intimidate their enemies. After the aircraft crashed, the US military found them, and the bodies of the crew manning them. Children. Modified to have larger than normal heads, and a series of other things that we now know as your stereotypical alien. Inside, they also found Cyrillic writing, confirming that it was Russian. So, they took it to Area 51. The place where Lockheed were testing their U-2's, and serious Nuclear testing was accruing as well. After news came out, the people either didn't care or got worried. Stoking the fires with reverse phys, they denied it, and kept the conspiracists guessing. Now with the release of the book, and the uncensored documents, the theory was then disproven.
I love history.
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I'm very much into conspiracy theories, especially since most are true.
I could argue against that. When someone thinks about conspiracy, they think about Roswell, and what happened there. Aliens. This has been disproved due to a series of declassified documents, and a book released this year about it. Area 51: An Uncensored History of Americas Top Secret Military Base.
What had happened was that an old Nazi scientist had defected to the Soviet Union during WWII. Because of this, he was able to keep up his experimentation on human beings. Hitler may have been bad, but Stalin was worse. They had also gotten flying saucer documentation. Now, the flying saucer, like a flying wing shape is extremely unstable in air flight, more-so than the wing. The wing cannot enter into a roll to adjust its yaw, as the thing will tumble out of the sky. The Germans found this to be true during thier WWII antics. So did we. So, we applied Fly-By-Wire to keep it stable in flight, and added flapperons, so the B2 could work on its Yaw-axis. The flying saucer? Well, it should just be scrapped, and never ever fly it is so bad.
So, Stalin developed them, and sent them into Roswell to try and instigate another War of the Worlds incident, something that had only happened several years before. Two days of mass hysteria. After everything was sorted out, every single world leader looked at it, and looked into phys. warfare to intimidate their enemies. After the aircraft crashed, the US military found them, and the bodies of the crew manning them. Children. Modified to have larger than normal heads, and a series of other things that we now know as your stereotypical alien. Inside, they also found Cyrillic writing, confirming that it was Russian. So, they took it to Area 51. The place where Lockheed were testing their U-2's, and serious Nuclear testing was accruing as well. After news came out, the people either didn't care or got worried. Stoking the fires with reverse phys, they denied it, and kept the conspiracists guessing. Now with the release of the book, and the uncensored documents, the theory was then disproven.
I love history.
Firstly, Let's try not to derail the thread about aliens and UFO's, ok? ;)
Secondly, I bought the same book and I only read halfway through it before I couldn't stomach any more of it. It's a load of crap! >:( There is no proof........Oh wait, I should better use the more politically correct term that Vararam likes which is "evidence".......of aliens and UFO's at Area 51. Researching A-51 is another pasttime of mine in my spare time. ;)
Now.........going back to the original topic...........;)
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;D Thanks Kobuk.. Just wondering, have you done any research yourself into any of the recent political intrigue lately? I spend a lot of time doing it myself, history is my favorite class at school and I love to go into rants about this and that. The idea of a police state isn't new, 1984 by George Orwell is a classic and it's one of my favorite books, but it seems to be revealing itself to be very real each day.
Oh and btw while reading that bill, there's a few amendments allowing the military to accept funds from outside private parties! Basically the military is letting industry buy off our troops. Insane!!
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I'm going to have to actually read the bill when I have time, but this really isn't all that new. Infringement of the Bill of Rights has happened so many times in the history of the United States. Judging by the title of the article, it honestly sounds a bit sensationalist. But I'll make conclusions when I'm done reading the bill (actually law; I presumed it passed? But has the president approved of it?).
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I read this thread's beginning post, and it got me thinking...'hasn't there been a law to a somewhat similar effect for at least the last 30 years or so?'
And when I looked at the Wikipedia posting, there it was, right at the top:
"The National Defense Authorization Act is the name of a United States federal law that has been enacted for each of the past 48 fiscal years to specify the budget and expenditures of the United States Department of Defense."
This isn't really anything new. They've been doing it for the last 48 years, in fact, which is only two years less than I've been alive, and similar legislation was used before that for the same purpose, all the way back to the first drafting of the constitution; it's been building up for the last 200+ years, ever since the clause about a 'well-ordered militia' was penned for a very small nation of less than 20 states, if memory serves. In other words, it's been around in a slowly-growing form for the next best thing to forever, in an america-centric sense.
That sounds less like a conspiracy to me, than a case of the perpetuation of the status quo -- which is not entirely a bad thing in my view.
it wouldn't be surprising to me if this bill is exactly what they are saying it is: the first step into a police state.
by the way, who is "they," exactly?
My two cents. YMMV.
Addendum: looking at the languge on the page surrounding the article in the Original Posting, it appears to be of German or Eastern European origin. I don't mean to disparage non-USA individuals, but I have to question the veracity of an obviously inflammatory article about american legislation written for a non-native newsservice.
And those bits about "Fema coffins" and the US being "the most secretive nation in the world"?who exactly said these things that you're alluding to? Do you have proof of their veracity? Why wouldn't the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) have coffins, when they have to deal with thousands of dead from natural disasters (and other catastrophes) each year, and not only in the Continental US?
Far up toward the top of the list of reasons why that article raises little poor-veracity warning flags in my head is the fact that, as far as I was able to tell, the author didn't actually quote any of the Act itself, but engaged in a whole lot of telling us that it said this, or that, or this other thing, without offering any actual proof to support his or her allegations.
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This thread kinda reminds me of the movie "The Siege".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Siege
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What had happened was that an old Nazi scientist had defected to the Soviet Union during WWII. Because of this, he was able to keep up his experimentation on human beings. Hitler may have been bad, but Stalin was worse. They had also gotten flying saucer documentation. Now, the flying saucer, like a flying wing shape is extremely unstable in air flight, more-so than the wing. The wing cannot enter into a roll to adjust its yaw, as the thing will tumble out of the sky. The Germans found this to be true during thier WWII antics. So did we. So, we applied Fly-By-Wire to keep it stable in flight, and added flapperons, so the B2 could work on its Yaw-axis. The flying saucer? Well, it should just be scrapped, and never ever fly it is so bad.
So, Stalin developed them, and sent them into Roswell to try and instigate another War of the Worlds incident, something that had only happened several years before. Two days of mass hysteria. After everything was sorted out, every single world leader looked at it, and looked into phys. warfare to intimidate their enemies. After the aircraft crashed, the US military found them, and the bodies of the crew manning them. Children. Modified to have larger than normal heads, and a series of other things that we now know as your stereotypical alien. Inside, they also found Cyrillic writing, confirming that it was Russian. So, they took it to Area 51. The place where Lockheed were testing their U-2's, and serious Nuclear testing was accruing as well. After news came out, the people either didn't care or got worried. Stoking the fires with reverse phys, they denied it, and kept the conspiracists guessing. Now with the release of the book, and the uncensored documents, the theory was then disproven.
That sounds like a conspiracy theory in of itself.
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What had happened was that an old Nazi scientist had defected to the Soviet Union during WWII. Because of this, he was able to keep up his experimentation on human beings. Hitler may have been bad, but Stalin was worse. They had also gotten flying saucer documentation. Now, the flying saucer, like a flying wing shape is extremely unstable in air flight, more-so than the wing. The wing cannot enter into a roll to adjust its yaw, as the thing will tumble out of the sky. The Germans found this to be true during thier WWII antics. So did we. So, we applied Fly-By-Wire to keep it stable in flight, and added flapperons, so the B2 could work on its Yaw-axis. The flying saucer? Well, it should just be scrapped, and never ever fly it is so bad.
So, Stalin developed them, and sent them into Roswell to try and instigate another War of the Worlds incident, something that had only happened several years before. Two days of mass hysteria. After everything was sorted out, every single world leader looked at it, and looked into phys. warfare to intimidate their enemies. After the aircraft crashed, the US military found them, and the bodies of the crew manning them. Children. Modified to have larger than normal heads, and a series of other things that we now know as your stereotypical alien. Inside, they also found Cyrillic writing, confirming that it was Russian. So, they took it to Area 51. The place where Lockheed were testing their U-2's, and serious Nuclear testing was accruing as well. After news came out, the people either didn't care or got worried. Stoking the fires with reverse phys, they denied it, and kept the conspiracists guessing. Now with the release of the book, and the uncensored documents, the theory was then disproven.
That sounds like a conspiracy theory in of itself.
It may be. But, hey, I'm just sayin' what synopsis of that incident was. 'Father read it, then passed that instance down onto me. The book did interview several Engineers from the site, from what the wiki article says, on the article on the Roswell incident. *shrugs shoulders*
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What had happened was that an old Nazi scientist had defected to the Soviet Union during WWII. Because of this, he was able to keep up his experimentation on human beings. Hitler may have been bad, but Stalin was worse. They had also gotten flying saucer documentation. Now, the flying saucer, like a flying wing shape is extremely unstable in air flight, more-so than the wing. The wing cannot enter into a roll to adjust its yaw, as the thing will tumble out of the sky. The Germans found this to be true during thier WWII antics. So did we. So, we applied Fly-By-Wire to keep it stable in flight, and added flapperons, so the B2 could work on its Yaw-axis. The flying saucer? Well, it should just be scrapped, and never ever fly it is so bad.
So, Stalin developed them, and sent them into Roswell to try and instigate another War of the Worlds incident, something that had only happened several years before. Two days of mass hysteria. After everything was sorted out, every single world leader looked at it, and looked into phys. warfare to intimidate their enemies. After the aircraft crashed, the US military found them, and the bodies of the crew manning them. Children. Modified to have larger than normal heads, and a series of other things that we now know as your stereotypical alien. Inside, they also found Cyrillic writing, confirming that it was Russian. So, they took it to Area 51. The place where Lockheed were testing their U-2's, and serious Nuclear testing was accruing as well. After news came out, the people either didn't care or got worried. Stoking the fires with reverse phys, they denied it, and kept the conspiracists guessing. Now with the release of the book, and the uncensored documents, the theory was then disproven.
That sounds like a conspiracy theory in of itself.
It may be. But, hey, I'm just sayin' what synopsis of that incident was. 'Father read it, then passed that instance down onto me. The book did interview several Engineers from the site, from what the wiki article says, on the article on the Roswell incident. *shrugs shoulders*
And some of those "Engineers" from that site were probably "yanking that journalists's chain" so to speak and giving the author ludicrous and far fetched information to discredit her and make her look like a fool. *shakes head* :P A story is only as good as the research put into it and/or the person writing it. Obviously, that doesn't seem to be the case here. That A-51 book author "got taken for a ride". Nuff said. The book is sensationalist crap.
Now.........Moving right along back to the National Defense Authorisation Act.....;)
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I just hope I still get to watch TV
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Well I know that they're also trying to pass an internet censorship bill. I already know that the US gets Google and Youtube to take down contraversial stuff from their sites all the time as it is though..
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Well I know that they're also trying to pass an internet censorship bill. I already know that the US gets Google and Youtube to take down contraversial stuff from their sites all the time as it is though..
That's a completely different subject and is not related to defense and the military. There's already a topic on that in the Debate forum. ;)
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I haven't read the bill (over 1000 pages! :o ), but I heard about Sen. Rand Paul's view of the provision to detain even American Citizens and you can watch his speech on it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjVgWNzQnk and has been making rounds on the news shows. He talks about how this provision of this bill suspend American citizens right to due process by allowing the government to indefinately detain anyone, even an American citizen on merely the suspicion of supporting terrorists without trial. Two key points of the vid at at 0:45 in and 11:45. I have to say, I agree with him on this.
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Well I know that they're also trying to pass an internet censorship bill. I already know that the US gets Google and Youtube to take down contraversial stuff from their sites all the time as it is though..
That's a completely different subject and is not related to defense and the military. There's already a topic on that in the Debate forum. ;)
With people thinking that things like that are unrelated, is the very reason as to why America is becoming what it is.
First you take away freedom of the press,
Then you take away free speech and media,
And then you take away the free rights of individuals,
And before you know it, you're guilty until proven innocent, and you won’t be allowed to leave the country without some kind of permission.
It's all related, and it's just one more piece of the totalitarian puzzle that threatens to crush us all.
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[quote author=Storm Fox
With people thinking that things like that are unrelated, is the very reason as to why America is becoming what it is.
First you take away freedom of the press,
Then you take away free speech and media,
And then you take away the free rights of individuals,
And before you know it, you're guilty until proven innocent, and you won’t be allowed to leave the country without some kind of permission.
It's all related, and it's just one more piece of the totalitarian puzzle that threatens to crush us all.
[/quote]
i like your thinking!!! :D I would love to talk more about such things, but I don't wanna get in trouble in this thread for that.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-set-to-become-law-the-terror-is-nearer-than-ever-2011-12
1984 is here, all i have to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-olNr4UuVqY&feature=player_embedded
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http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-set-to-become-law-the-terror-is-nearer-than-ever-2011-12
1984 is here, all i have to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-olNr4UuVqY&feature=player_embedded
That first link is poor. The writer just shoots his mouth off giving his personal opinions. He doesn't post any other links or facts in his story. :P
If you intend to make any sort of scientific, political, religious, etc. "claim" in a controversial topic, then please be prepared to back up that claim with proof of facts, figures, statistics, percentages, etc. with links to well documented references/resources.
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K I read it, it does not extend to lawful residents of the us, or legal aliens
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Nvm were screwed
http://www.infowars.com/obamas-u-turn-on-indefinite-detention-bill-a-historic-tragedy-for-rights/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-e7z7S6VI
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I saw it said fox news and so I shall wait for a more reliable source on whatever this is.
Because the OP was horribly lacking in any details of any sort with only a link to a known unreliable source of information, I shall provide a little info.
What is the NDAA specifically? I'll just put up a wikipedia link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDAA
Its the National Defense Authorization Act, and has been around as mainly a budget sort of bill for the last 48 years. Its the most recent one that got controversy over the quoted section. You can read it for yourself at the link.
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Kiboe: I merged your new thread titled "NDAA signed into law, Martial Law declared", which started on Post # 23, into the current thread here. We don't need multiple threads on the same subject. :P
And secondly, everybody needs to calm down and chill out. :P >:(
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What the NDAA (Specifically Sections 1031 and 1032) is doing isn't much different than what has happened before in the U.S. from the mid 1940's to the late 1950's. Back during World War II, the US interred hundreds or thousands of Japanese, Japanese-Americans, and/or Japanese/German collaborators in internment camps and jails across the US. The same thing happened again during the 1950's with the "Red Scare" (Communism and McCarthyism). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
What is going on now with AQ, the Taliban, and terrorism isn't much different than what happened long ago. The time, circumstances, and some other things have changed, but the detentions, rules, laws, eavesdropping, spying, etc. are still the same or similar. What the US is doing and going through now is nothing new. If you think the US is bad, then you folks need to go live in Israel. That country has been besieged by terrorism for decades. A lot of groups and countries don't like Israel. Those people are living with the fear of terrorists and terrorism EVERY SINGLE DAY. They have armed military personnel on the streets keeping a watch for suspicious activities.
There is no martial law in the US. There are no military on American streets. Kiboe, you sound like the boy in the fairy tale who cried "Wolf" when there wasn't one. You're being too paranoid.
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Signed into law.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/317046?noredir=1
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Kiboe, you sound like the boy in the fairy tale who cried "Wolf" when there wasn't one. You're being too paranoid.
He's entitled to his opinion. o.o
I personally don't think it will be used in the way he's talking about in our lifetime, but the fact that it's there: i don't find acceptable. It's against everything i believe in. Furthermore, the fact that this isn't televised in the US despite it being a major story in a lot of other countries is rather disturbing. It was signed into law on a major US holiday behind closed doors. Not cool.
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Fox News and the conservative radio talk show hosts I occasionally listen to have been vocal against this, but I don't get to tune in often enough to know how much attention overall they are giving it.
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Fox News and the conservative radio talk show hosts I occasionally listen to have been vocal against this, but I don't get to tune in often enough to know how much attention overall they are giving it.
Weird. I was under the impression neo-cons were mainly the ones driving this one. o.o
Shows how much i know. x_x
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Neo-cons? I've heard the term now and then but not sure what it's supposed to mean exactly. Always been used as a derogatory term though, when I have heard it. But true conservatives that believe in following the constitution are pretty set against this. I would expect a lawsuit on this, but you can't sue the government without standing.
The way I understand it, you can't simply claim a law is unconstitutional. You have to be directly affected by it ( American citizen being detained under the provision without due process in this case) before you can challenge it in court. I may be wrong though.
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Narei, We've talked. :P
You know i consider myself a conservative. ^_^ But i think most, "real conservatives," were also against the patriot act despite the fact that it's supported in general by the republican party.
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The more I hear, the more conservatives are drifting from the republic party's changing beliefs. They may still be registered republican, but only because it's better than democrat in their eyes.
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WOO everyone ready for some police state?! XD
jk jk..
So how does everyone feel about it being official now though?
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To me, the entire thing is just disturbing. I know it's a big stretch, but this with the potential of SOPA, the world is sounding more and more like something out of Orwell.
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I hear this thing actually passed.
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Yep, passed on New Years. The Obama administration says it won't interpret the bill that way, but any other president could. And after all, it's practically already happening. A girl and her boyfriend were physically detained and arrested for standing in a terminal, shouting information about the bill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Cg6ayc-w3bE
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In all fairness, they were inside a terminal and possibly disturbing the peace/disrupting business (hard to tell fully from the video), which is not something you can do even as a protest. So the cops had the right even before this law to make them leave.
OWS also has a bad habit of stuff like this that causes police to get involved. When things get heated, that's when all the cameras come out and makes it look like the cops are abusing power, when you never get to see what started the conflict to begin with. Had they complied with police orders in the first place, it never would have escalated to that point.
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If they were disturbing the peace, then why were all the people there with them? I'm just saying that as Americans we have the right to assemble peacefully and protest in any case. The reason for being in a terminal is probably because there are more people there to listen. Just my idea of the thing.
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It reminds me of the guys who were "dancing" (moving back and forth) in place and got arrested and tackled at the Jefferson memorial.
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It reminds me of the guys who were "dancing" (moving back and forth) in place and got arrested and tackled at the Jefferson memorial.
Yeah. It figures that Adam Kokesh would be the one to figure out how to get arrested for dancing.
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If they were disturbing the peace, then why were all the people there with them?
I'm sure they were all there to protest, but those two seemed to be leading the group. So that's who the police would go after first. Remember, the right to free speech doesn't mean the people around have to be forced to listen to you.
I'm just saying that as Americans we have the right to assemble peacefully and protest in any case. The reason for being in a terminal is probably because there are more people there to listen. Just my idea of the thing.
We have the right to peacefully protest. Not to be so loud that it prevents a (for all intents and purposes of the vid) a captive audience from doing their normal activities or to ignore such protest. Freedom to protest doesn't give you carte blanch to do as you please. You still have to obey local ordinances and such. Large rallies also often need permits, which gives the city a chance to prepare as well.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012
And........
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h1540/text
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To me, the entire thing is just disturbing. I know it's a big stretch, but this with the potential of SOPA, the world is sounding more and more like something out of Orwell.
This is nothing new. Cell phones can already be located. People freely reveal themselves on social networks, and even non-users have so-called ghost profiles. I mean, look at the Patriot Act, which I believe was extended, a recent example of our movement into a proto-Orwellian society. I'm not trying to sound sensationalist, but it is true that our society is now more connected and open than ever, and we're finally coming to realize the unintended consequences.
Btw survalence may be uncomfortable and intruding, but if you want to see a real police state, go to Syria.