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not-so-furry discussion => general non-furry discussion => Topic started by: Kobuk on September 08, 2016, 07:08:48 pm
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For week after week, and month after month, Donald Trump keeps shooting his mouth off about how he wants to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico to keep the "undesireables" out of the U.S.
What he and many other people may not realize is that there already is a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier
Granted, the physical wall may only be "in sections", and some land areas may only be covered by a "wall" of various electronic sensors to monitor illegal immigration, but having something is better than having nothing at all.
The only reasons some areas may not have a physical wall are due to environmental issues, trade impact, financing, construction issues, opposition from Indian and rancher groups, etc.
And secondly, should we put up a wall between us and Canada too? Frankly, I don't see as much problems with Canada as I do with Mexico. The vast majority of illegal immigrants we get from Canada are geese. :D
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No. No no no. There is NO good reason for this to EVER happen.
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One big shopping mall. We'll call it Wall of America! It will have theme parks and events of all kinds. Imagine a protective and fully air-conditioned glass hallway. You can watch illegal aliens happily cross back and forth between two countries. Take helicopter rides to watch drug runners in action. Watch minimum wage employees play 'spot the illegal' and "green card bingo". And everyone's favorite "May I search your car."
Trump is a moron The people who support him are morons. No. A wall will never be built. Even if that moron gets elected.
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There is already a fence there. There is no reason for a wall to be built. It is a waste of money and Mexico has no way to fund the project.
Also, Trump plans to triple the amount of border security officers. There is no reason for this as the number of border security officers already skyrocketed after 9/11 and it just means they slow down airports even more and harass more people without good reason.
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once again i doubt the wall people think of will actually be built. it seriously feels like it is all talk (and it gets people at the rallies hyped) we might just be adding more sensors, and increasing the amount of patrols.
@sciex im pretty sure those border officers will not have much effect on places away from Mexico. many of those officers might just be hired to increase the amount of patrols along the border.
and about it being a waste of tax payer's money. hell tons of that money is just disappearing likely going to government officials while they sit around. to get money to build the wall, trump might actually start canceling unneeded government expenses. another good thing is if a physical wall was actually built that would open up many jobs in the construction, and maintenance of the wall. yes it is kinda a waste of tax payer's money, but its better going into the hands of civilians instead of just sitting around somewhere.
for the sake of seeing what these walls are going to look like i kinda want them. nothing wrong with building walls... (though if there was anything better the government was willing to do, i'd much rather prefer something that helps more)
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and everyone knows the great wall of China worked.........
Can't wait so see the great wall of Canada.
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No and it would be foolish anyway.
They would climb a wall like squirrels up a tree..
If it was free it might make a good tourist attraction kind of like the great wall of China.
With all the paranoia and crazies out there I think the best way to monitor boarder
traffic is with infra red web cams ever so often. You know there would be a lot of
watchers. :D
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There are people entering the US from Mexico carrying diseases for which there is no cure. One can be so self-righteous about open borders until someone you know contracts Chagas or TB. The Church practice of The Common Cup has been banned in Texas as a result.
The wall should be as good as the one between Mexico and Guatemala.
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Whether a wall works or not, I don't know. :P But there's something else that people and/or the politicians may not be very informed about. Mexican illegal immigrants are getting smarter and devising new ways to cross the border. An example: Underground tunnels. I haven't heard many stories about them, but they seem to be increasing more and more frequently. This is another thing that Border Patrols will have to combat and the American gov't will have to spend millions of dollars on to counter this problem.
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You can see it in people's heads that they think Trump wants to build a Great Wall of China along the border. That's not going to happen. Frankly, its not going to work. China's wall didn't keep out Mongolian hordes, the same way any large physical wall will not keep out illegals. Constantinople's walls and harbors did not keep the Ottoman Turks at bay. People are resourceful and smart. Trump's "wall" will probably be patrols and cameras if anything happens at all. I don't see it working, at least its not what people think of when someone spouts off "I want to build a wall". Its sure gotten people enraged and upset for sure. Does immigration reform need to happen--absolutely! Walls aren't the answer to that reform.
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There are people entering the US from Mexico carrying diseases for which there is no cure.
The wall should be as good as the one between Mexico and Guatemala.
And America currently has Zika going on. Maybe other countries should wall America in? Or maybe just the worst affected states?
Diseases will spread anyway. Illegal immigrants aren't the only people that carry it. Legitimate immigrants and people visiting can carry them both ways. A wall won't stop that.
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There are people entering the US from Mexico carrying diseases for which there is no cure.
The wall should be as good as the one between Mexico and Guatemala.
And America currently has Zika going on. Maybe other countries should wall America in? Or maybe just the worst affected states?
Diseases will spread anyway. Illegal immigrants aren't the only people that carry it. Legitimate immigrants and people visiting can carry them both ways. A wall won't stop that.
And birds, animals, and insects carry diseases too.
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I don't think a wall would help. We need effective, positive action if the immigration issue is to be solved without stepping on the freedoms we aim to uphold, or soiling relations with our neighboring countries. My thought is to allow law enforcement to track down illegals - possibly even open up a temporary branch of government employment to work directly on the problem in order to minimize problems (like a more humanitarian form of the FBI) - and incarcerate and deport harsh criminal elements.
Illegals who have otherwise committed no serious crimes would be issued a license detailing a reasonable quota of money owed to the local government at a low interest rate, which would only become active once they are employed. They would also have to have at least one family member studying towards American citizenship (even if it's just a study guide at home). At the end of the afore-mentioned quota being fulfilled, they can be issued with a citizenship test.* If the test is completed, the interest would no longer apply, and the family/individuals would be given the full rights of American citizens. If the test is failed, the interest is simply renewed and the family/individuals may continue to work at it.
*Families that request and complete the test as a whole may be removed immediately from the tax, and granted citizenship.
Any thoughts on how that might work? I know there are some grey areas (what about an elderly couple that finds it too difficult to study?) but those could even be solved on a case-by-case basis. There's also the fact that people might simply not want to pay such a tax regardless of its reasonability- to which I'd respond that they are not U.S. citizens and are therefore not protected by the Constitution - in which case such people would also be deported.
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I don't think a wall would help. We need effective, positive action if the immigration issue is to be solved without stepping on the freedoms we aim to uphold, or soiling relations with our neighboring countries.
The first step to solving any problem is to look at it's source. This, of course, being Mexico. In order to stop or limit illegal immigrants from crossing the border, we need to put more pressure on Mexico to stem it's tide of illegal immigrants. Or at least, leaders within Mexico itself need to get a firmer grip on the illegal immigrant issue. Change sometimes first has to happen from within the country itself before we ourselves change. One way or another, Mexico is going to have to get tougher and implement more policies and crackdown measures. The U.S. can't keep doing everything itself.
My thought is to allow law enforcement to track down illegals
Regular police forces are already overburdened with robberies, carjackings, thefts, drug dealing, etc., etc. Now you want to overburden them even more by having them track down illegals?
- possibly even open up a temporary branch of government employment to work directly on the problem in order to minimize problems (like a more humanitarian form of the FBI) - and incarcerate and deport harsh criminal elements.
Illegals who have otherwise committed no serious crimes would be issued a license detailing a reasonable quota of money owed to the local government at a low interest rate, which would only become active once they are employed.
That's if they are employed and they can pay it off. And how would illegals pay off that money? Most illegals tend to send their pay back to Mexico to other family members, or they abuse it by doing drugs or other illegal things.
They would also have to have at least one family member studying towards American citizenship (even if it's just a study guide at home). At the end of the afore-mentioned quota being fulfilled, they can be issued with a citizenship test.* If the test is completed, the interest would no longer apply, and the family/individuals would be given the full rights of American citizens. If the test is failed, the interest is simply renewed and the family/individuals may continue to work at it.
*Families that request and complete the test as a whole may be removed immediately from the tax, and granted citizenship.
Any thoughts on how that might work? I know there are some grey areas (what about an elderly couple that finds it too difficult to study?) but those could even be solved on a case-by-case basis. There's also the fact that people might simply not want to pay such a tax regardless of its reasonability- to which I'd respond that they are not U.S. citizens and are therefore not protected by the Constitution - in which case such people would also be deported.
There's probably other questions I have, but I'll add them later as I think of them. :-[
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im kinda all for just kicking them out of the country dropping them off at the border of where every they came from (give them the time to pack up their belonging though)
why dont they put a little effort into cleaning up their country instead of coming here.. its slightly understandable but the fact that they are just skipping the line to get into the US is just messed up.
the best "wall" i can think of is just a bunch of sensors, drones, or other surveillance equipment. after they find them, chase them, and drive them back to the border. the only way for a wall like the great wall of china would work is if there were constant patrols.
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why dont they put a little effort into cleaning up their country instead of coming here..
That's easier said than done. Mexico is rife with corruption. Drug gangs and cartels have their hands into everything.........maybe even including immigration. Cartels have more than likely bribed, extorted, etc., etc. poilticians to "look the other way" when it comes to controlling illegal immigrants. In fact, illegal immigration may even be a "money making business" for some cartels.
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well thats where the people come in... should be fighting for freedom/against the corruption. if the good people dont have supplies to fight maybe we should help them instead of going to the middle east (though the middle east is kinda more of a threat)
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well thats where the people come in... should be fighting for freedom/against the corruption.
Fear is a powerful tool. And the drug cartels use it quite well to get what they want. That, plus power, influence, and especially........money. And since the drug cartels are making a lot of money from drug trafficing, they can afford better weapons to defend themselves and/or intimidate others, especially the local citizens.
if the good people dont have supplies to fight maybe we should help them instead of going to the middle east (though the middle east is kinda more of a threat)
Ok, now you're getting into a dangerous precedent here. If we were to start helping the local populace by arming them and/or going into Mexico ourselves with military force or military advisors, I guarentee you that would set off a chain of events that could quickly ignite and get out of control. In short, we'd have a very legitimate "border war" on our hands with Mexico. No way would I ever want to see or have this happen.
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meh it happens alot all ready so im not sure if people would even notice that much. for years we have been funding random groups, some even becoming our enemies and no one really cares that much. (just bringing it up as a random idea though it would likely cause problems like everything else)
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Found the following on my local news website.
http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/rep-jim-sensenbrenners-border-wall-funding-idea
I am still opposed to having an actual wall built and having us or Mexico pay for it. But I may be receptive to the idea put forth by a Wisconsin politician. :) Let's kick the drug dealers where it hurts: In their wallets and pocketbooks. :D Let's seize their money that they're making to fund increased border security. Excellent idea!
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A wall isn't going to help the USA that much. These kind of people can be very sneaky, and if they get a new obstacle they'll just come up with new ways to get the job done. From what I heard on the Dutch news Trump is actually trying to get parts of the wall built already, but I can't tell if it's fake news or real.
Retrieving 50% of the profit of dealers seems to be a very high goal, and personally I'd be surprised if they got close to that. The idea of taking the money of drug dealers and using it to improve the country's security is a genius idea though.
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From what I heard on the Dutch news Trump is actually trying to get parts of the wall built already,
Can't happen until Congress passes a Federal Budget and allocates funding in order to actually start building the wall. Congress hasn't done any of that yet.
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A wall isn't going to help the USA that much. These kind of people can be very sneaky, and if they get a new obstacle they'll just come up with new ways to get the job done.
Exactly. Walls will not stop people from trying to get from one side to another. Already, Mexicans are digging underground tunnels to get themselves and drugs into the U.S.. And there's other ways like flying, hang gliding, hot air ballooning, and so many others. :P
Remember the Berlin Wall that seperated East and West Berlin in Germany? The Soviets and East Germans had the most stringent and tightest security along that wall during the Cold War. But no matter how tight that security was, people from East Berlin still found a way to cross into the west. ;)
If it can happen in the past, it can happen today, and will continue to do so in the future.
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Can't happen until Congress passes a Federal Budget and allocates funding in order to actually start building the wall. Congress hasn't done any of that yet.
In that case it probably was fake news or I understood it partially wrong. The last one is more likely...
Exactly. Walls will not stop people from trying to get from one side to another. Already, Mexicans are digging underground tunnels to get themselves and drugs into the U.S.. And there's other ways like flying, hang gliding, hot air ballooning, and so many others.
Remember the Berlin Wall that seperated East and West Berlin in Germany? The Soviets and East Germans had the most stringent and tightest security along that wall during the Cold War. But no matter how tight that security was, people from East Berlin still found a way to cross into the west.
If you ask me, it was more of a strong point to get votes than an thought-out plan. Trump has said a lot of things and they're obviously not all true. I wonder how much of that wall is actually going to be built in the next four years. Time will tell.
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I think the wall will be only a mild deterrent. It would be far more effective if they actually started enforcing the immigration laws that have been in the books since the 80's-90's.
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Build a 30 foot wall and you get a thriving trade in 31 foot ladders.
Course, Trump is an idiot and won't realise that his plan won't change anything.
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Enforcing existing immigration law is not a bad thing either. That's why green cards are issued.
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In a "slightly" related topic.......
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/politics/coast-guard-cuts/index.html
Trump is so concerned about our southern border with Mexico, that I guess him and his Cabinet cronies have failed to realize that the Coast Guard also intercepts illegal immigrants and drug dealers coming by sea too. Cutting the Coast Guard budget will put our nation's security at risk along all of our waterways. And not only that, but the CG also plays a pivotal role in sea rescue. So if somebody is adrift in a boat far from shore and needs emergency help, then what? Guess there'll be no money to help go rescue that poor guy. :P
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I'm somehow sure that if Trump lets the wall be build, Canada will do the same resulting in America being locked in :o
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I'm somehow sure that if Trump lets the wall be build, Canada will do the same resulting in America being locked in :o
That's a looooooooooooong wall.
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Also I doubt Canada is stupid enough to try something like that :p
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The last I heard the appropriations commmittee wasn't too hot on
the idea of a solid wall running the length of the boarder with
Mexico. The chairman did say it might be a mix of wall, fence and
technology like cameras or sensors. If anythilng was done.
If anything is built it iwll probably be enough for a show, and not
much else. The wall is a stupid waste of money when we already
have a big debt. If Trump brings up the idea of tariffs to pay for it.
That would just be a burden on us not Mexico.
Trump seems like he feels common sense should fix anything. Trouble
is life is much to complex for simple ideas to work. I really don't
think he that stupid, but feels it will make him a winner, which is more
important to him than anything else.
A wall following a boarder which is a river part of the way. Who would
decide which side gets the river, or would the wall be built down the
middle of it? Approching the Gulf of Mexico there is a big lake. Where
would a wall be built there? Some places already have fences.
Even if it was easy to build one, people could dig under it or climb
over it. Or even blow holes in it. It would be a mess and cost millions
to maintain.
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It's going to take a while to get a wall built. You need quite a bit of preparation time and then nothing is standing in the right place yet. After the preparations are done it'll still take a while to get the entire wall in place, so you'll have to work on multiple locations at the same time on the same wall to finish it as quick as possible, wasting truckloads of money in a short time. If you work in only one place at a time, it could take years before everything is in place. It's just not practical in either way.
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With all the press about the wall since Trump said he wanted to build one. Little
has been said about the effect on wildlife. Many animals migrated across the
Mexican boarder each year.
This could cause extinction of some animals, and with predictors like the Gray
wolf, and Cougar may be unable to travel to their regular hunting grounds. Many
may turn to livestock or perish.
I doubt if Trump or many in the GOP care about the enviroment or wildlife. Except
perhaps to hunt them for sport.
We should consider the natural world when deciding to change the enviroment. A wall
following the boarder with Mexico effectivly cuts north america off from the south.