Author Topic: Cancel Culture  (Read 687 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Cancel Culture
« on: July 06, 2020, 08:45:23 pm »
Cancel Culture. It's a new term/phrase popping up in the English language to describe history and culture that people don't like or are offended by and they want removed. This can include, but is not limited to: Symbols, Statues, Books, Flags, Movies & TV shows, etc., etc.

But what this cancel culture really is, is "revisionist history". And I find it despicable.  >:(  >:(

Go ahead. Hate a statue, book, symbol, etc. all you want. But no matter how much you remove something because it offends you, it is still a part of history. You can't "undo" what has happened months, years, decades, or centuries ago.........unless you're Dr. Who and have a time machine.

Every day, I read a story about some statue being torn down because the person it represents committed some sort of "bad thing" that angers somebody or a group of people for various reasons. Now, I am not necessarily offended by Confederate statues and symbols. I agree that that part of history had some bad times and that some Confederate (or Union) Civil War people were not brightest apples of the bunch so to speak. But tearing down their statues will not make them go away and will not change whatever bad acts they comitted and so forth.

As has always been said in one form or another, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. What people need to do is LEARN FROM HISTORY. Not destroy it. Destroying history solves nothing. Destroying history just lets the revisionists win. Learning from history so we can better ourselves and not make the mistakes our ancestors did is what will enable us to be better.

It saddens me that I had read stories days ago that statues of George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt were either removed or torn down. These two men were some of this country's greatest leaders. Sure, one had black slaves on his plantation and the other may have committed some acts against Indian peoples, but these two men still had plenty of good about them. Washington for winning the Revolutionary War, and Roosevelt for helping institute the National Park Service for example.

Folks, as the old saying goes: You can't have the good without the bad and vice versa. History needs to be cherished and saved. It needs to be learned from. Not destroyed. If people go out and topple statues, remove symbols, destroy books, etc. then you're no better than a famous mid 20th century German dictator. And we all know who that is. ;)
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Offline Varg the wanderer

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2020, 10:06:33 pm »
"Those who control the present control the past, and those who control the past control the future." -George Orwell

This is not about things being "Offensive", it's entirely about control. They want to erase history so they can replace it with whatever suits them the most. Those conveniently placed pallets of bricks and crates of gasoline-filled bottles during the riots were purchased and placed there by someone, find that someone and you'll find out who is trying to manipulate the election. The rioters and people in the street are not the leaders of this. They are but "useful idiots" being used to influence people's thinking and opinion.
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Offline BlueStreak

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 02:38:55 pm »
I feel like this is going to end up in the debate room. But anyway.

Most of the Confederate monuments were built in an effort to revise history in the first place, decades after the war and in some cases after many of its veterans were dead. How many countries have monuments to people who led insurrections against their governments? I think it's absurd that the statues exist in the first place; we don't need to have monuments of traitors in our town squares to know they existed. That's what books are for.

In terms of other statues being removed or changed, I've heard some very inaccurate and conflicting reporting about them. The Roosevelt statue in question had been a subject of debate for years, and its relocation (it's being placed inside the museum instead of in front of it) had nothing to do with the former President himself. Similarly, a statue of Fredrick Douglass was knocked over the other day, but there is zero information about who actually committed the act, despite finger-pointing by some with a less-than-scrupulous agenda.

You're correct that we need to learn from history. But part of that is learning that some of the things done in history were wrong. And building some of these statues--and leaving them up for all these years--are part of that.

Offline cause the rat

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2020, 04:10:20 am »
Good o'l America's white washed history. No one ever told us in history class that the constitution was written in a pot smoke filled room. In fact George Washington encouraged people to plant more hemp. Because we needed the rope. That the Puritans ran out of beer. That's why they anchored where they did. To make more beer. I totally agree. We don't need statues glorifying traders. But I also agree we need to stop this cancel culture. Unless we're willing to replace the water down history with the real thing. Yes. There where thousands of black Americans ssterilized. To keep the "unwanted" from breading. Yes we did some really offal stuff to the native people. Every hear of polio blankets? How the KKK shaped and controlled the south. If our true history were taught in schools it would leave the students feeling depressed. Not patriotic. But they would know the truth. 
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Offline Kay Alett

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2020, 02:51:30 am »
Cancel Culture. It's a new term/phrase popping up in the English language to describe history and culture that people don't like or are offended by and they want removed. This can include, but is not limited to: Symbols, Statues, Books, Flags, Movies & TV shows, etc., etc.

But what this cancel culture really is, is "revisionist history". And I find it despicable.  >:(  >:(

Go ahead. Hate a statue, book, symbol, etc. all you want. But no matter how much you remove something because it offends you, it is still a part of history. You can't "undo" what has happened months, years, decades, or centuries ago.........unless you're Dr. Who and have a time machine.

Every day, I read a story about some statue being torn down because the person it represents committed some sort of "bad thing" that angers somebody or a group of people for various reasons. Now, I am not necessarily offended by Confederate statues and symbols. I agree that that part of history had some bad times and that some Confederate (or Union) Civil War people were not brightest apples of the bunch so to speak. But tearing down their statues will not make them go away and will not change whatever bad acts they comitted and so forth.

As has always been said in one form or another, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. What people need to do is LEARN FROM HISTORY. Not destroy it. Destroying history solves nothing. Destroying history just lets the revisionists win. Learning from history so we can better ourselves and not make the mistakes our ancestors did is what will enable us to be better.

It saddens me that I had read stories days ago that statues of George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt were either removed or torn down. These two men were some of this country's greatest leaders. Sure, one had black slaves on his plantation and the other may have committed some acts against Indian peoples, but these two men still had plenty of good about them. Washington for winning the Revolutionary War, and Roosevelt for helping institute the National Park Service for example.

Folks, as the old saying goes: You can't have the good without the bad and vice versa. History needs to be cherished and saved. It needs to be learned from. Not destroyed. If people go out and topple statues, remove symbols, destroy books, etc. then you're no better than a famous mid 20th century German dictator. And we all know who that is. ;)


But statues are a way of glorifying history. That German Dictator you mentioned, Germans don't allow anyone to even mention his name. Not because they don't want to remember what happened but because of how ashamed they are of what happened. They're not trying to erase what happened, they want to ensure it doesn't happen again.
You won't find a statue of him in Germany, not because they don't want to remember him but because they don't want to glorify him or lionize him or depict him in any way that might make him look appealing or like someone to look up to or admire.

There is a big difference between removing statues of civil war soldiers and pretending the civil war didn't happen. For one thing, there's a lot of people in the south who look up to confederate soldiers because "they stood for what they believed in" but get offended when you bring up the fact that the confederacy literally ripped the country in half. The confederacy was fighting against the USA, they were not part of the USA.

I asked my father why he loved the flag of the confederacy so much in spite of what the confederacy stood for. He said "Well none of that stuff is what it means to me. To me it represents standing on your own. Independence and freedom." And he was completely clueless when I said "Okay, that's what it means to you, why is it so hard for you to understand that it isn't what it means to other people?"

I don't think taking down certain statues of people is wrong or trying to erase culture. I think it is acknowledging that these people are not individuals to be glorified. If America genuinely wants to be a melting pot and be welcoming and accepting of others then we need to acknowledge that not everything was accomplished in this country by white people. There's been some token gestures sure but it isn't enough. We recognize people of color who stood their ground in the name of equal treatment in history books but there are not many statues dedicated to them.

And let's not forget the broken treaties with the native peoples of America. I don't think a single indian treaty was left intact. The American government was more than happy to let the Sioux have the black hills.... till gold was discovered there. Then they walked all over them and stole the land and the gold just because they could.

But if you wanted to put up a statue memorializing the broken treaties, or a larger, more prominent statue of the wounded knee massacre, there'd be so many people saying things like "Why are you bringing this up?", "Does this really need a statue?", "It's such a negative thing!", "Why are you bringing this up?", "Can't you let it go?"

But no one would say anything if you were to put up another memorial statue to the victims of the holocaust. Now granted, the holocaust was way way worse, I won't pretend otherwise, I just want to point out that if indigenous tribes wanted to put up more memorial statues showing their ill treatment at the hands of the united states government there would people fighting it every step of the way because they don't want to remember something so negative. They don't want to be reminded.

I don't know, I just think we need to really look at our history. Especially the stuff we're uncomfortable with. We need to really look at things and I am hopeful that the younger generations will push hard for that kind of national introspection.
Will it be hard? Of course, personal introspection is often a horrible nightmare as you take an objective look at yourself, your actions, the way you have thought and acted up to this point, the point you realized that this is wrong.
We're on the edge now of looking inward, of pulling all the barbarism out into the light of day and really looking at it on a national level. We're on the cusp of real introspection on a national level. Of looking at our country and really seeing the horrible stuff that we have allowed to happen.
Taking down statues of people who do not need glorifying is not erasing history, it's a reexamination of history with modern eyes and sensibilities and realizing "We should not be lionizing this person to this degree".


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Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Cancel Culture
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2020, 07:07:10 pm »
These things happen in cycles. About 50 years ago, anti-(Vietnam) war protesters damaged a bronze statue of a WW1 doughboy in a park here. The monument was repaired. However, the bayonet scabbard hanging from the soldier's belt is bent. Not sure if the damage came before or after the repairs.

There's probably a good reason they mount old military aircraft up on poles in war memorials at veteran's halls. A T-33 Shooting Star jet plane displayed at a local airport had it's canopy smashed about the same time period. Thick plexiglass, so took a lot of effort.

A statue of Francis Scott Key was destroyed. The push is on to once again change the US national anthem. In the 1980s, the reason given was that the lyrics scare the children. Now it's "racist" lyrics. Only the first stanza is ever sung anyway. In response to the first reason, a local radio station began playing The Star-Spangled Banner (by gospel singer Sandi Patty) at noon everyday. That is, until it was pointed out that particular rendition doesn't include the actual lyrics either. Now they play an instrumental version. I have an illustrated book about The Star-Spangled Banner btw.

There was also a great push to rename everything after MLK once the federal holiday was created. Once it was learned of his political leanings and that MLK was a gun owner who actually applied for a permit to carry a concealed pistol, the movement idled.
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