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Furtopia services and support => suggestion box => Topic started by: Alsek on March 01, 2012, 05:08:32 am
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The MLP section has only been around a short time and already it already has over a hundred more posts than the next highest post count sub-forum in the community groups forum, "Furry Tech Talk," And furry tech talk has been around sense 2003.
The other sub-forums in community groups completely pale in comparison when it comes to activity and use... As i mentioned in the news thread i dread the idea of wanting to post something tech related because it would never see the front page for the constant onslaught of pony related posts. in fact, usually now i just don't. Even if someone happend to wonder into the techboard and replied, their reply would be covered up within 20 minites by the bronies.
Now i'm not trying to say this is a bad thing, i really think it's great that there's a part of the forum that's growing in activity... A whole new subject that wasn't otherwise discussed here before... But i'm thinking maybe it's outgrown it's sub-forum status now. I mean, honestly, even though it has a different name, the, "Community groups," forum pretty-much IS the my little pony forum now...
And all the other topics are just unfortunate enough to be crammed in there with it.
So... It is a fairly furry related topic. Talking ponies, dragons, and dogs all count as anthropomorphic animals. Do you think maybe it would be possible to give this it's own front page forum untill it someday (years from now) starts to quiet down?
It has more activity than the poetry, web design support, and photography and video front page forums combined.
Also, i'm personally not biased in it's favor as i don't frequent that area, but i highly doubt you'd find any objections from the bronies. Everyone wins.
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I think this is a great idea. It's a board that seems to get as much traffic as the others lately.
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I'm not sure I can fully explain what I want to say here, so please bear with me and I'll describe as best I can. ;)
You say the MLP sub-forum is getting a lot of activity, right? And the other sub-forums are kinda so-so. :P If the MLP community is getting a large amount of traffic, then wouldn't it make sense to leave it where it is as it tends to act as the "anchor" so to speak for the whole Communities forum area? If we leave the MLP sub-forum where it is, then maybe people will take the time to browse/migrate from there to the other community sub-forums.
In other words, MLP tends to act as a sort of "lighthouse" or beacon for members to browse that community. And if members see the MLP community, they might take notice more of the other sub-forum communities like Furry Tech Talk, etc. and start posting there too.
Am I making any sense or did I lose you? Look at it this way. A lot of large shopping malls have what are called "anchor stores". These are large stores like Kohl's, JC Penny, Target, Sears, etc. at strategic places at the mall. And if shoppers browse those stores, then they might decide to stay long enough and continue browsing some of the smaller stores adjacent to the main anchor stores that are in the mall.
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I understand what you're saying, Kobuk, and I kind of agree with you. Personally, I don't have much of an opinion either way.
The risk with having it in the communities, though, is that it really does overshadow everything else there. People have to click on the community groups to see any new posts that aren't in the MLP forum, and that adds an extra layer that makes them much less known. This is the main issue.
Again, I really don't have much of an opinion. If enough people wanted it, I'd be in favor of it. You guys wanna pull other bronies in here to voice their opinions?
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I understand what you're saying, Kobuk, and I kind of agree with you. Personally, I don't have much of an opinion either way.
The risk with having it in the communities, though, is that it really does overshadow everything else there. People have to click on the community groups to see any new posts that aren't in the MLP forum, and that adds an extra layer that makes them much less known. This is the main issue.
I second this. I don't generally view the Community groups subforum page (http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?board=94.0) directly; I usually view all of those subboards directly from the main page. I imagine that most people would use either the "Last post" links on the side of the main page or the links to specific Community group subforums on the main page as I do.
The MLP subforum probably does have some positive effect on keeping new brony members here, but it also seems to have a negative impact on the other Community groups. Moving it would fix that.
Again, I really don't have much of an opinion. If enough people wanted it, I'd be in favor of it. You guys wanna pull other bronies in here to voice their opinions?
The change is minimal for me personally either way, as I usually view the tech talk subboard directly from the main page if it has unread posts. Having said that, I think it would be better for the users and potential users of the other community groups in general if the MLP board was moved. Perhaps their thoughts should be solicited as well? I think they'd be more affected by this.
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Mentioning this because it seems relevant, the text of the name of each sub forum on the main page is in bold when there’s a new post within.
That’s what I always use as a quick reference to know where the new stuff is when viewing things from the main page.
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MY vested interest is in being able to talk about tech stuff without it getting moved to the tech forums where it will never be seen. I think that at the current state of things, the whole community subforums things could just be done away with, with stuff like food & tech being things to discuss in off-topic (or perhaps as subforums of off-topic?), and the current position of the community subforums getting replaced by the mlp one.
ALSO, can we have all future mlp threads get moved to there as general policy? Sort of how like as of right now, tech threads have been dumped into tech talk, but here its to mutual benefit instead of mutual problem-generation. It would consolidate the bronies' stuff for them, while letting me (and others who have no interest in mlp) browse the rest of the forum without tripping over random topical mlp threads. Adblock can block avatars and signatures, but doesn't filter out threads.
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ALSO, can we have all future mlp threads get moved to there as general policy? Sort of how like as of right now, tech threads have been dumped into tech talk, but here its to mutual benefit instead of mutual problem-generation. It would consolidate the bronies' stuff for them, while letting me (and others who have no interest in mlp) browse the rest of the forum without tripping over random topical mlp threads. Adblock can block avatars and signatures, but doesn't filter out threads.
I don't understand what you mean by this?
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Ok, so like right now, if I went to offtopic (general non-furry discussion), and posted a thread about CPUs or something, it would get moved to the tech subforum, where it would have drastically reduced visibility, hence why I want to do away with the whole community subforum system.
However, for MLP (which if sub communities were done away with, or became subforums of general non-furry, would become a full forum [Though would you please keep it at the bottom of the index where it currently is?]), this wouldn't be a problem, because they would be viewing that forum anyways! Furthermore, it would mean that non-mlp people would be able to not have to have random mlp threads lying around.
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I just recently had an idea. ;) But unfortuneately, I'm off to bed right now as I have early work. I'll post about it more either tomorrow night or on the weekend. :)
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As one of the more spirited participants in the MLP community group, I would like to chime in and say that I am perfectly fine with how things are right now. I like how MLP:FiM has its own community sub-board. Bronies are a community after all, so it makes logical sense that bronies would have their own "community group" sub-forum. Besides, I almost never go to the main Furtopia page to find recent posts. Instead, I find out what topics on Furtopia have had recent activity each day by clicking on the "Active Topics" link (http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?action=unread) at the top of every Furtopia page. That way I rarely miss anything, no matter what topic or sub-forum it is posted in.
I'm sure that I am going to open up a real can of worms here by saying this, but considering the fact that it seems like the majority of the rabble-rousing here is coming from two furs that frequent the "Furry Tech Talk" community group, I have a feeling that the real problem here is not the popularity of the MLP community group nor where the Furry Tech Talk community group is located within the hierarchy of Furtopia's forums. Instead, I think that the problem here is that the disgruntled Furry Tech Talk members are failing to realize that deep-geek technical talk is too uninteresting and/or too over the heads of the majority of the members here and are using the bronies as a straw man to blame for their lack of sub-forum activity instead. And this is coming from a guy who both frequently visits and posts in the Furry Tech Talk board as much as anyone else here! I collect vintage computers as a hobby, I'm a computer programmer, I solder my own electronics, and I have an Amateur Extra-Class amateur radio license-- I am as much the targeted audience for the Furry Tech Talk community group here as anybody!!!
At the same time however, I also have come to the realization over the years that 90+% of the people in this world just aren't extremely enthusiastic about such topics as modifying the key length in GnuPG through altering its source code, whether you prefer to use vi, emacs, or Windows Notepad to author your text-files with, why VLIW-architecture microprocessors never achieved the success in the marketplace that was predicted of them, how to incorporate an op-amp into an analog circuit, what new features were added to the most recent release of the Eclipse IDE, what the future of the Cell processor in Sony products will be, or what new digital transmission modes the FCC just allowed hams to use on the 31m-band. All but the most geeky of people here in these forums just don't care about these kinds of topics (Furtopia is a "furry" community and not a "tech" community after all), and as a result the members posting in the Furry Tech Talk group shouldn't be suddenly surprised when their posts only garner the attention and replies of the very few furs here that do care. To further my point, Alsek dug the grave for his own argument in his very first post to this thread-- he stated how the Furry Tech Talk community group has been around since 2003 and yet after less than a year the MLP:FiM community group has buried it in terms of amount of activity. You know what that proves? That the Furry Tech Talk community group was *never* that active here relatively speaking, either before the MLP sub-forum was created, or after, and booting the MLP sub-forum out of the community groups section isn't going to somehow miraculously change that fact.
Now don't get me wrong-- I am all for the existence of a Furry Tech Talk community group sub-forum here. As I mentioned above, I am as active in it as anyone else here generally, and every once in a while it really is nice to have a place to talk about technical things with other furs. But suddenly blaming the MLP community group for its lack of traffic? I'm sorry, but that's just sour grapes.
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Actually, I'm not blaming MLP per-say, but rather the community sub-forum system*, stemming from the policy of topic-moving.
*And you're right that it was never active to begin with, and that's BECAUSE of the community sub-forum system.
To clarify, I was agreeing with this specific section of alsek's post: "i dread the idea of wanting to post something tech related because it would never see the front page" - the ONLY community subforum that ever took off was the mlp one, and that was because people were already talking about mlp stuff all over the place and it was making a mess, so it all got centralized for everyone's convenience.
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I think Hoagiebot kinda has a point. Particuarly with this item:
I like how MLP:FiM has its own community sub-board. Bronies are a community after all, so it makes logical sense that bronies would have their own "community group" sub-forum.
In a small way, MLP fandom is part of the Furry fandom. BUT........It's a smaller part, or rather "sub-set" or "offshoot" of the furry fandom since it has anthropomorphic ponies and dragons in it. MLP is by all means, a different "community" as Hoagiebot said. Hence why it is in the Community Groups section as a "sub-forum". While the MLP fandom/community has been growing on the Net as well as across the US and elsewhere, I actually see MLP as a passing fad. Sure, it's popular now because it's new to a much younger generation who never saw or grew up with MLP back in the 1980's/90's. But after awhile, the interest and fandom will subside and decline like most other cartoon or toy fandoms and communities. Therefor, I really don't see the need to bring MLP out of the Community Groups section and have it as a "full fledged forum" so to speak.
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I never did like the Sub-Forum set up. Ever notice how there's barely ever any newer members in the community groups? Are they intimidated or do they just not see them?
Something really needs to be done with all these, they've never worked as they are.
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First of all, To anybody who is suggesting we get rid of and delete forums, we don't do that here. Furtopia keeps everything for historical/reference purposes. So getting rid of any Community groups sub-forums is out of the question. If a community sub-forum has not been active for a long time per the guidelines here: http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?topic=42302.0
.........then the staff will move it into the Archive section here:
http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?board=104.0
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The only option I can think of for re-organising the Community section and making the sub-forums there more visible is the following:
Currently:
SUB-FORUM SECTION:
artists, authors, and musicians
Child Boards: Old Rabbit
community groups
Child Boards: Foodie Furs, Furry Tech Talk, Anime, MLP (My Little Pony)
Proposal:
SUB-FORUM SECTION:
Foodie Furs Forum
Tech Talk Forum
Anime Forum
MLP Forum
Notice in the Proposal option there is no "Community Groups" or "Child Board" wording. Those 4 sub-forums would be brought out and no longer considered "child boards", but they are still classified as sub-forums nonetheless because they are smaller groups as Hoagiebot tried to explain.
As for Artists, Authors, & Musicians, and Old Rabbit's child board, there is no concern about that. I will discuss that with Old Rabbit personally. ;)
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That would completely solve the problem. :3
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That would completely solve the problem. :3
So I'm guessing what is proposed in quote would be acceptable to you?
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Absolutely. ^_^
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I'll leave this thread open for a few more days for other members to give opinions, then by the middle of the week, the staff will discuss privately on any forum edits or moving/adding changes. ;)
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I'm fine with it either way, but I don't really see much difference for my personal use of those. I just check those boards directly when I see them go bold in the list.
But if it might increase activity in any/all of those boards, go for it. It isn't going to hurt any of them at all.
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That's fine.
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Works for me :)
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Smart solution. I don't particularly have a stake because I use the "Show unread posts..." link, but after reading the opinions on both sides I think this one addresses most, if not all, concerns.
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Smart solution. I don't particularly have a stake because I use the "Show unread posts..." link, but after reading the opinions on both sides I think this one addresses most, if not all, concerns.
I use the show unread posts link and it affects me when i want to post in the tech forum or food forum because most people don't use that link. ^^;
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There are numerous ways of checking posts and threads in a forum. ;)
1. At the top of the main forum page should be an "Active Topics" link to click on.
2. At the bottom of the main forum page in the Forum Stats section is a "View the most recent posts on the forum" link.
3. Clicking the large paw print symbol to the left of the forum title on the main forum page.
4. Click a forum title, then you'll enter that forum. Look over on the right where it says "Last post by....". If on the right it says "Today at (Insert time)", then you know that was the last post made in that thread. Or.......on the extreme far right, there is what appears to be a paper and arrow symbol. Click on that and you'll be taken to the last post in the thread.
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There are numerous ways, Kobuk, but the community groups are affected by the single way that the majority of users view topics. I'm guessing that most just browse the front page and ignore the community groups because they're stuck down the bottom like a footnote, past the support forums which most people won't check regularly or bother to look past.
And I'm guessing something about them is putting new members off posting there, since even in the MLP board most posts are made by the older members.
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Another Brony checking in here. Pretty much what I would have said is already up on here, so I'll just reiterate a few things in case my opinion adds weight to any decision.
It doesn't matter to me if things are re-orginized, but I think they work well as they are. My chain of forum checking events goes:
Check email notifications of watched topics and take care of any new posts/business in them
Check active topics link at the top for anything new and interesting
Scan to the bottom of the main page to double check the MLP AND tech talk boards to see if they're still bolded (I'm interested in both and occassionally will miss something in the active topics section)
The arguement of other child board threads being covered by MLP posts is pretty weak, at best. Not only is it easy to look for bolded child forum names on the main page, the MLP forum doesn't really have a ton of active topics. Sure, there are a ton of posts going on daily, but they are all mostly centered in two or three threads. So even if you rely only on the active topics link for monitoring new posts, there's no way any thread being buried could be blamed on just MLP posts since it only lists the threads and not individual posts. Even if a thread has 100 new replies since your last visit, the topic is still only listed once in the active topics.
You say the MLP sub-forum is getting a lot of activity, right? And the other sub-forums are kinda so-so. :P If the MLP community is getting a large amount of traffic, then wouldn't it make sense to leave it where it is as it tends to act as the "anchor" so to speak for the whole Communities forum area? If we leave the MLP sub-forum where it is, then maybe people will take the time to browse/migrate from there to the other community sub-forums.
In other words, MLP tends to act as a sort of "lighthouse" or beacon for members to browse that community. And if members see the MLP community, they might take notice more of the other sub-forum communities like Furry Tech Talk, etc. and start posting there too.
Am I making any sense or did I lose you? Look at it this way. A lot of large shopping malls have what are called "anchor stores". These are large stores like Kohl's, JC Penny, Target, Sears, etc. at strategic places at the mall. And if shoppers browse those stores, then they might decide to stay long enough and continue browsing some of the smaller stores adjacent to the main anchor stores that are in the mall.
Have you actually looked at stats to see if this theory even holds true? I haven't, but here's my thoughts on the idea. I think the 4 community groups are so different that it's unlikely you'll get much, if any, cross pollenation between them as you suggest. So I don't think the MLP forum being down there is really much of an "anchor" as you put it.
I'm not opposed to a re-orginization, so long as it flows well. I think the way things are, are OK, but I can agree that there's always a better way.
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The point isn't how it's possible to find topics within the lesser used sub-forums... The point is that people don't. No one was attacking MLP or trying to put it in a negative light, it was more to point out how it does overshadow the main method for seeing new topics from the front page. for /most users./
As was mentioned, i browse the forum primarily through "recent posts," but i don't think the majority of people do that.
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As i mentioned in the news thread i dread the idea of wanting to post something tech related because it would never see the front page for the constant onslaught of pony related posts. in fact, usually now i just don't. Even if someone happend to wonder into the techboard and replied, their reply would be covered up within 20 minites by the bronies.
I use the show unread posts link and it affects me when i want to post in the tech forum or food forum because most people don't use that link. ^^;
... it was more to point out how it does overshadow the main method for seeing new topics from the front page. for /most users./
As was mentioned, i browse the forum primarily through "recent posts," but i don't think the majority of people do that.
Then I guess you have me confused about what it is you're talking about with the other community group posts being hidden by MLP posts. When you mention viewing the "recent posts", are you talking about clicking the "Active Topics" link at the top of the forum pages? That's the only thing I can find remotely close to a recent post viewing page, and I've already adressed that as a non-issue IMHO due to the small number of actual active threads. Or are you talking about looking at the right of the forum's home page to the last posted topic column when you mentioned fearing your tech thread would never see the front page? There, a post is just as easily knocked off by a different topic as it is any other forum, and just a glance to the left will show if another community sub-forum is bolded.
I dunno, it sounds almost like you're looking at a page that shows you EVERY new post made, even if it means showing multiple ones in a single topic. If that's the case, then I would agree with you on the MLP forum affecting the other communities and the rest of the forums at large. Heck, even the word games section would be a forum flood. Only I've yet to see anything like that since I've been active here. Not trying to be argumenative, just confuzzled about what you mean apparently. >@.@<
And please don't think I'm trying to keep things as they are. I already said I'm open to a different layout.
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I think what Alsek means is that just because the forum is bolded, it may not catch user's attention, they'll just look past it and assume it's nothing within their interests. However a mention of a specific thread that may hold member's interests would be much more effective at boosting curiosity in the forum.
I think they should just be laid out like every other forum here, separated and clearly defined as more places to post in, not exclusive clubs/communities or lesser forums that aren't worth a spit to most members.
713229 Posts in 36103 Topics by 7029 Members. Latest Member: Doxthefox0
Latest Post: "Re: My Little Pony FiM M..." ( Today at 16:27:23 )
View the most recent posts on the forum. <--- That's what Alsek is probably using. A lack of knowledge of it being there somewhat shows what I was saying about people not paying much attention to the bottom of the front page where these boards are kept.
[More Stats]
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Ah, ok. You're probably right. I looked at that link in the stats and that sounds like what he may be looking at. Even knowing it's there, it isn't something I'd prefer to use because it would be too hard for me to maintain continuity of the various threads being talked about. x_x
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The biggest advantage I see is that there will be a single thread 'featured' for each community group, via the most recent post listed on the right. So it would at least offer some manner of easy exposure to all members of the forums, in case something there grabs their eye. As it is now, the most recent post listed for the entire community groups section is almost always a pony post. However, I also feel like those interested in the various community group topics will likely monitor those topics, if they find them.
Which brings me to my main point: I feel like they biggest issue here isn't how the forums are or can be checked for new posts, or even the format of the community groups board itself. It's most likely the overall location. It's an after-thought. Heck, it's below The Basement! I realize the community groups are (mostly) a bit more removed from the topic of Furry, so it makes sense to have them posted in a secondary position. But I think they might be buried a bit too far currently. Regardless of changing the format, I think the biggest help to these sections could be to stick them between the Games and Technical Support. If people want/need technical support, they'll find the board for it (and near the bottom of any website/forum is usually the first place one would look for such a thing).
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I agree with most of what Saloonka said. I'm going to assume here, but I assume that many of the members just browse the front page :P
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I'm one of those front page only people myself
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My experience has been that guests tend to click on the
recent posts that are shown on the right side of the board.
I am not sure about most members, but I use it quite often.
So if we can do something to give each board that exposure
the threads therein would get a bit more attention.
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Just for your information, staff is currently discussing the subforums. We'll let you know soon what happens :)
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I just refreshed the page and was all O.O
Looks good guys. I think it should work out nicely.