Author Topic: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?  (Read 3080 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« on: October 23, 2012, 09:17:29 am »
All 3 debates between Obama and Romney are over. Each person has had their say on various issues. It's now time to weigh the Pros and Cons of the debates and decide who you are going to go with.

DISCUSS!



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« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 09:21:16 am by Kobuk »

Offline Alsek

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 06:02:30 pm »
I'm not going to vote for either of them.

     They're actually incredibly similar on anything that actually matters.  They both want to bail out failing businesses.  They both want to implement socialized healthcare.  Obama has a history of continuing our asinine foreign policy of the past few decades and Romney is very loud about wanting to do so.  Neither of them are considering cutting anything real.

They're... Absurdly similar.

     I'll be voting for someone else, but I haven't decided who yet.  I'm not actually a big fan of Gary Johnson (there's plenty of things he says that bother me) but I may go with him anyways sense he's closer than most others and Ron Paul is no-longer running.  Hopefully the republican party will learn that when they prop up candidates that do not match historical party values they're going to lose voters and fail miserably.

Offline werecat2012

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 07:49:59 pm »
Even though I live in Canada, I was born in the U.S. and am a U.S. citizen. I can vote in U.S. presidential elections. Not this time though. I missed the deadline for the online voting. I went to the website recently and saw that the deadline for Indiana is 29 days before the election. 29 days! I'll have to remember this for 2016.

Alsek has a good point about Obama and Romney sounding similar to each other. I typed "third debate romney similar to obama" into a search engine and got a lot of links to newspaper articles. In search of an argument... like twins pretending not to be twins, etc.

As for who I would vote for, I'd be tempted to vote for neither and instead vote for a third party candidate. Some people might consider that to be throwing a vote away. But if more people voted for third party candidates, then maybe the U.S. could someday break away from the two party system and have more choices.

Offline Acton

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 11:00:57 pm »
I never voted for a democrat since Carter nor throw away my vote for a third party.
Y'all voted for  hope and charge and got neither.

I got more to say but  I want th hear you all first.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 12:26:30 am by Acton »

Offline redyoshi49q

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 12:02:22 am »
As for who I would vote for, I'd be tempted to vote for neither and instead vote for a third party candidate. Some people might consider that to be throwing a vote away. But if more people voted for third party candidates, then maybe the U.S. could someday break away from the two party system and have more choices.

This, especially if done by a large number of people, is an excellent way to change who the two primary parties are (this has happened a few times historically).  By itself, however, it won't cause the system to no longer be a two party system; any new party that gains enough power to become a contender will push out another party in the process.  For an explanation why, see this video (it's an awesome video; it explains the concept simply, clearly, concisely, and with a furry theme to boot).

As an additional nasty consequence of our voting system, those who vote for third party candidates (such as you, and possibly myself) do so at the cost of their ability to influence the race between the primary two candidates (this is referred to in the video I linked as "the spoiler effect"; you may also know of it as "the Nader effect" due to the election involving him where this mechanic came into play).  That sacrifice, unfortunately, is something that needs to be weighed as a part of the choice to vote for third parties.

To remove the two party system would require changing how leaders are voted in.  Of those who vote on laws, only those not in the two most supported parties (third parties and independent candidates) would have a vested interest in changing the system this way.  I would *love* a better voting system for this country, but realistically speaking, unless the vast majority of citizens *REALLY* pushed for it, it's not something that's likely to happen anytime soon.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:17:41 am by redyoshi49q »
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Offline werecat2012

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 09:43:36 pm »
Furry theme too? I just watched it.

Yes, that video explains the problems very well.

One big problem is the massive amount of money that is involved in elections. I read an article about how Obama has raised over $500,000,000 and Romney has raised over $300,000,000. It takes money to make money. So it seems that you have to already be quite wealthy, influential, and well connected in the first place to even have a chance of getting far in politics. How could an ordinary working class lower income person who truly represents the majority of people ever compete?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:47:44 pm by werecat2012 »

Offline werecat2012

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 01:15:38 am »
Nobama... heh heh. My favorite is Obummer.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2012, 05:46:31 am »
Nobama... heh heh. My favorite is Obummer.
Obamanomics :D Haven't heard any for Romney (other than the one above), so I can't list any for him.

I'm not sure who I'll vote for. Certainly not Obama, but torn on Romney or simply voting not to vote for either. I may just write in a vote for Ron Paul anyway.
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Offline Gearbox

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 08:07:19 am »
If I could vote I'd be going with Obama, sister and dad are doing that as well. Mom hasn't voted in years and I doubt she will this time too. Dunno anyone who's going with Romney (or R-money/Mittens, if you rather :D).

Offline Nyeti

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 11:26:27 pm »
romney....even though im not to pleased with him....but i really dont like obama....
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Offline Epsy

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2012, 02:54:33 pm »
Obama. Actually, neither because I am currently very ill with a virus and was not able to register to vote in time, but I live in Seattle so it's not too bad. I'd feel awful if I was in a swing state.

This article is probably the best political article I have ever read and covers why I would never vote for Romney:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/a-quantum-theory-of-mitt-romney.html?_r=0

I don't like Obama at all, I don't like the two party system at all, but Romney would be demonstrably worse for the country for any left leaning person I feel. Until we destroy the corporatist/lobbyist system we're probably stuck with elections in which we are choosing the lesser of two evils and it sucks.
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2012, 03:25:34 pm »
...probably stuck with elections in which we are choosing the lesser of two evils and it sucks.

I've thought about this recently. It's pretty sad that for so many people, the elections aren't so much citing FOR a candidate, but voting for the one you dislike less. Arguments like "voting for the lessor of two evils" is disheartening. When voting your conscious means voting for someone outside the the two main parties, you're told you're just throwing you're vote away and helping the guy you don't want to actually win.

I'm doing early voting today, and still not too sure which way to go for the presidency.
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Offline Drake Fireborne

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 03:44:13 pm »
It may seem stupid or wrong to people, but for this election, I'm basing my opinion more on how the candidates act then who's "right". By act, I mean how they go about there lives when no one is looking. The things they do when it's not going to get them votes... Now, you would think that most everything about them would be out there already... anything good is used as ammo to prop someone up, and anything bad used to tear them down. But I found a surprising amount of service that Romney has done for others. Like real, physical labor. I had to do a little digging because it's not something his campaign throws out to lift him up. Imma go all religious and quote the bible... try not to hate me for it too much xD "By there works, ye shall know them"
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Offline Fenny the Fox

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 10:08:13 am »
Actually, I am likely to vote for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson - he aligns more closely with my views.

Granted, I realize I am "throwing my vote away", I feel that the only true way to throw it away is to vote for someone you honestly do not feel will do a good job. And, for me, that is both the major candidates.

Romney - against gay marriage and for an anti-equality marriage amendment ["traditional marriage amendment" is how I think they play it], wants to raise defense spending rates, wants to continue and extend the Patriot Act, passed and supported the very basis of "Obamacare" in Mass. Though he claims to be for lowered taxes and lowered deficit, he has not provided a usable plan to achieve this but has put forth some very bad ideas on the subject of what to keep and what to cut in the federal budget.

Obama - pushed the Healthcare act, wants to continue the Patriot Act (and has done so in his first term), is pushing for maintaining the high levels of defense spending currently appropriated. Has not effectively acted to support what I feel would be economically beneficial for our country, but has continued the status quo of spending and deficit of the federal budget.

I could go on and on, but won't. regardless, I don't like Mitt or Barry at all.

[Also, keep in mind, since I mentioned it, that I am honestly split on the Health Care Act debate - since I am fundamentally opposed to the forcing of taxes on the non-purchase on a commodity but I realize that, as a person with no current insurance coverage and with pre-existing medical conditions, it can only help me personally in the long-run.]
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Offline redyoshi49q

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 02:26:05 pm »
I recently came across a webpage that some of you might find helpful.

The website is ProCon; they try to create and present a minimally biased database of presidential candidates and their views on varying issues.  They have a chart here listing that information; they also have a quiz here that tells you, for each candidate, how frequently you and that candidate agree when you both take a solid position on an issue.  They also have pages for each issue and each candidate; these pages list the quotes from which the "Pro" or "Con" determination comes from for each issue.  They don't list every issue, and for the quiz, they give every issue you list a position on equal weight; consequently, the site is best thought of as a springboard for more complete research rather than a complete source in of itself.


Because of my hectic schedule, the only way I was able to vote was by early voting last Saturday.  I was torn between Obama (read "someone other than Romney who had a feasible chance of winning") and Jill Stein (read "a third party candidate whose views I agreed with slightly more").  I ended up voting for Jill; in essence, I was gambling on my state being Democratic enough for Obama to lose my vote to Jill and still beat Romney in my state.  I guess I'll find out what happens on election day.
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Offline Tommy Fox Stone

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2012, 05:41:23 pm »
I voted today for Romney...

 
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Offline werecat2012

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2012, 09:06:13 pm »
Thanks for sharing, redyoshi49q. I took that test and got through all 68 questions. The results I got for highest percentages were for Stein and then Obama.

Offline Epsy

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 12:36:24 am »
It may seem stupid or wrong to people, but for this election, I'm basing my opinion more on how the candidates act then who's "right". By act, I mean how they go about there lives when no one is looking. The things they do when it's not going to get them votes... Now, you would think that most everything about them would be out there already... anything good is used as ammo to prop someone up, and anything bad used to tear them down. But I found a surprising amount of service that Romney has done for others. Like real, physical labor. I had to do a little digging because it's not something his campaign throws out to lift him up. Imma go all religious and quote the bible... try not to hate me for it too much xD "By there works, ye shall know them"

Obama's kind of busy running the coountry.
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Offline Ziel

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 07:08:46 am »
...probably stuck with elections in which we are choosing the lesser of two evils and it sucks.

I've thought about this recently. It's pretty sad that for so many people, the elections aren't so much citing FOR a candidate, but voting for the one you dislike less. Arguments like "voting for the lessor of two evils" is disheartening. When voting your conscious means voting for someone outside the the two main parties, you're told you're just throwing you're vote away and helping the guy you don't want to actually win.

I'm doing early voting today, and still not too sure which way to go for the presidency.

Sadly, though, it's not surprising. When's the last time you've seen a positive political ad? The campaigning isn't so much about advertising an agenda or platform, as it is about trying to kick out the other guy's knees.

As for this election, I'm scared of both candidates. I don't want either of them near the office. The only thing that helps me justify the fact that one of them is inevitably going to win, is the fact that Congress has to actually pass most/all of the measures that these two men are promising to enact if they win. If there's one thing Congress is good at, it's stalling out on the most important issues.

On Tuesday, I'll just be enjoying my day off work. I'm not going to vote. There aren't any local issues here that I really care much about, so for me it's really just the presidential ballot that I would be going in for. But I dislike both candidates, pretty much equally. And I'm also not a huge Gary Johnson fan. He's better than the main two, though, but I don't like him enough to give him my vote. Oh, and there's also the fact that my state is pretty much already decided...

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Offline typingwithpaws

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 12:59:41 am »
no i won't be voting... because australia...thats why. but for some reason the media thinks we care about the subject.

all i know is that i have never heard ol mate romney say anything GOOD yet.
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 06:00:48 am »
Just took that quiz, and at least the guy I voted for was in the top 2 of my results. I voted for Romney, but it also listed Goode dead even with him at 79%. I didn't really care much for the layout of that quiz, though, but I always have issues like this. Too many times my answers are situational dependent and the question isn't specific enough to wholy answer simply yes or no.
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Offline platty_baleine

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2012, 03:35:31 am »
I'll be voting, but not for either of the two corporately sponsored candidates from the stupid and evil parties. Sorry to sound harsh, but on all the important issues both the Democratic and Republican parties are too similar, too infiltrated by corporate lobbies and special interests, and are both moving farther and farther right. When you have two candidates who both support civilian indefinite detention, bank bailouts, the utter failure of the drug war, and many other issues, you know something is wrong with the two major parties. Obama is a disappointing wimp, and Romney is lying scumbag from the one percent.

In my state, I'll be voting for Elizabeth Warren for senate, Jill Stein for president, and yes on question 3.

Offline Avor

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2012, 06:07:46 am »
All 3 debates between Obama and Romney are over. Each person has had their say on various issues. It's now time to weigh the Pros and Cons of the debates and decide who you are going to go with.

DISCUSS!



It's not even a democracy.

Regaurdless, both of these "men" have, and will fail you and your
narion.

Romney is evil, and Obama is a wimp. None of them will make or push the hard and unpapular choices* that would restore the budget and the econmy. Niether will make any real effort to remove corruption from governent, or restore your liberties and rights to justice that has been widdled down over the last 12 years.

*choices such tax raise and end to free traide with places that use slave labour{China}

Better off with Ron Paul



Offline WhiteStorm

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2012, 12:08:40 pm »
Hmm... according to that test:

Quote
91% Jill Stein

73% Barack Obama

69% Gary Johnson

44% Virgil Goode

24% Mitt Romney

Well I guess that sorts out the two mains. Never heard of the others, but I don't usually know american politicians until they show up in the news so that's not unusual.
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Offline Fenny the Fox

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Re: The Debates are over. What do you think? Who will you choose?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2012, 02:17:58 pm »
It is interesting though that you placed more in line with Goode than Romney, since Goode is a true "Conservative" both in the social adn fiscal sense. Much much moreso than Romney ever thought about being. But then again...the test is not perfect, by any means.


As for me...interestingly I lined up most with: Johnson at 79%
                                                             Stein         69%
                                                             Goode        56%  (I kinda don't like that thought, honestly...because I have read his platform)
                                                             Obama       50%
                                                             Romney      46%

Other than Goode, that really seems about right.
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