Should we let Texas be it's own country?

[ominipotentgoldfish]

An honest question here.  Texas, way back in the day, -was- it's own country, and let anyone who wanted in, in.  Then, Mexico did some stuff they didn't like, war happened, and we have the south easter United States.  But I'll spare all the details.

My question is, do you think we should let them?

My personal answer?  Yes.  Quite simply, they are more prepared than any other state.  With their own power grid.  (Texas has it's own power supply, so if the rest of the nation gets boned like that they're okay.)  And honestly, more guns to defend itself with than most of the National Guard (light sarcasm here).

Plus, at least from some of the stories I've heard online, and from personal accounts, Texans are just a little... "wacky" so to say.  I mean no offense to anyone in particular but... well, I've hear some things. 

So, I think, that we let Texas do it's own thing.  See if it can.  But that's just me.  What are your thoughts?

[Kris]

Texans are just a little... "wacky" so to say.

Understatement of the year 


While the locals seem to think it'll work all fine and dandy, there's a lot more to the big picture that most folks don't thing about.  Politics, economics, import/exports, occupation by the US Military... all would have to be worked out beforehand, which is a decade in the making if the state started work -today-.

If it does happen, just let it be -after- I move back to AL. 

[redyoshi49q]

First of all, do the citizens of Texas presently want/seek independence?  If this isn't the case, debating whether or not they should be independent would only be good for hypothetical argument (though it would be a pretty good/entertaining/enlightening hypothetical argument; take for instance the points that Jake made).

Also, I fail to understand the train of thought that links the presented information on Texas to the reason that Texans should be independent.  Strong infrastructure and unique collective personality do not seem to be a sufficient warrant to assert that an entity be sovereign.  For example, furries could in theory run a convention in an armory on a dynamo generator.  Such furries would have ample access to firepower, a self containted electrical system, and an outsider's perception of being "wacky", yet it would be reasonable to say that such furries should not be considered sovereign in a political sense; since this is the case, these traits by themselves do not imply deserved sovereignty.

From this follow questions:  What else would these theoretical furries need to deserve sovereignty?  Does Texas have these traits?

[Kris]

Point is, Texas DOES have the infrastructure and population to be self-sustainable... Secession is only a matter of organizing the aforementioned items as I mentioned in my first post..

Eerily enough, a good slice of the population actually wants it.

THIS is an all-too common site, even in the little town I live in.

 

[redyoshi49q]

THIS is an all-too common site, even in the little town I live in.

 

...  (*blinks*)  ...

...I was *not* expecting that.  So much for the "purely theoretical" paradigm...

Point is, Texas DOES have the infrastructure and population to be self-sustainable...

Self sustainability does help the argument that an entity can become sovereign, but there still exists the question as to whether an entity should be sovereign.  Even if Texas were to successfully govern itself independently of the US, Texas's sovereignty may create/worsen issues for Texans and Americans, namely those of traveling visas, tariffs, and immigration control.  On a plus side, Texans would be happier.  There might exist other benefits to Texan sovereignty, but in order for it to be beneficial for Texas to secede, there would have to be enough benefits for Texas to outweigh the aforementioned detriments to Texas's secession.

Also, from what I can perceive, being a state gives Texas political power similar to the sovereignty that some small countries have.  After all, the state constitution should give Texas the right to make laws to govern itself by.  What makes being an independent country a significantly more desirable position for Texans than being a semi-autonomous entity of an independent nation?  What is there to gain?

[Yip]

For example, furries could in theory run a convention in an armory on a dynamo generator.  Such furries would have ample access to firepower, a self containted electrical system, and an outsider's perception of being "wacky", yet it would be reasonable to say that such furries should not be considered sovereign in a political sense; since this is the case, these traits by themselves do not imply deserved sovereignty.

But what of the example of Greater Llewellynlland?

[Alsek]

I am a Texan.   Most Texans would love to be their own country again.  In fact,  we tried at one point.

[Kris]

What makes being an independent country a significantly more desirable position for Texans than being a semi-autonomous entity of an independent nation?  What is there to gain?

Much of the local populous have very... opinionated... views of politics/religion and the such...

For reasons I care not to delve into, secession would enable the state to become the reddest of the red... so to speak...

which, for me, is sad 

[Alsek]

Much of the local populous have very... opinionated... views of politics/religion and the such...

For reasons I care not to delve into, secession would enable the state to become the reddest of the red... so to speak...

which, for me, is sad 

We're entitled to our own opinions same as anyone else...  O.o

Trust me,  we're no more opinionated than california is...  (i've lived in both places)  Just have different opinions.

[Kris]

We're entitled to our own opinions same as anyone else...  O.o

Trust me,  we're no more opinionated than california is...  (i've lived in both places)  Just have different opinions.

*nodnods* Nothing against the opinion of the populous here, everyone else is just as entitled to their own opinion as I am to mine, I don't see eye to eye with the locals was all. 

The example I gave meant that most of the state is in agreeance with itself, which would be a big driving point behind secession 

[J. March OHare]

I must admit, I read the subject line, "Should we let Texas be it's own country?" and it was like reading a foreign language. Talk about cognitive dissonance! The question might as well have been, "Should we hollow out the Earth and fill it up with pretty flowers?"

Maybe it has something to do with my living in Columbia, South Carolina for the last five years. For those who don't know, that's a city that, in 1865, was BURNED TO THE FREAKING GROUND by the U.S. Federal Government for attempting the same stunt. That place is like a conquered nation now... which, to be accurate, is exactly what it is. Contrary to the popular slogan, the South Shall NOT Rise Again. Those people are whipped.

If Texas tried to secede, the same thing would happen to it. When it comes to the Federal Government of the United States of America, We the People have possibly forgotten what we're dealing with. Any state that made a serious attempt to become its own country would be put down with a vengeance. Talk about Shock and Awe! It would very rapidly resemble Iraq.

"Should" has nothing to do with it. The only way it'll ever happen is if the U.S. collapses completely and Balkanizes.

That, however, is not entirely outside the realm of possibility.

[Valexi]

I live in San Antonio, Texas, and I have to say; I don't want Texas to become it's own country.
I don't know if it's because of where I live, but I've never seen that bumper sticker Jake posted, and really I've never met anyone who wanted Texas to be it's own country.
I don't think it would be for the best interest of the people.
For one, I wouldn't want to have to go through security check points every time I wanted to go out of state, and even worse; have to deal with what people would say when I tell them I'm from Texas.
Judging from some comments in this thread, people already see us as crazy; that would only amplify tenfold if we were to secede.
I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to secede, but I think this is just another case of extremists making normal people look crazy.

[Kay Alett]

We might get more tourism. Texas has pretty much every kind of environment you can want except for tundra. We have mountains, desert, grasslands, tropical areas, Texas pretty much has it all. There are indeed many Texans who'd love for us to secede from the US but I'm not sure we'd be better off. Texas was taken in by the US after we fought for independance from Mexico.

[Kay Alett]

I live in San Antonio, Texas, and I have to say; I don't want Texas to become it's own country.
I don't know if it's because of where I live, but I've never seen that bumper sticker Jake posted, and really I've never met anyone who wanted Texas to be it's own country.
I don't think it would be for the best interest of the people.
For one, I wouldn't want to have to go through security check points every time I wanted to go out of state, and even worse; have to deal with what people would say when I tell them I'm from Texas.
Judging from some comments in this thread, people already see us as crazy; that would only amplify tenfold if we were to secede.
I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to secede, but I think this is just another case of extremists making normal people look crazy.

Have to agree here. Besides Texas has many advantages to being part of the US as opposed to its own country. I wouldn't want to have to deal with all the crap that'd come from secation, I live on the border of Arkansas and Texas and Stateline Avenue is bad enough traffic wise without haveing to think of US/Texas border patrols and checkpoints being put up all over.

[Cimarron]

Ive never lived in Texas, but have traveled there often.  From what Ive seen Texas has its own flavor to it.  My Grandmother was born and raised in Texas, and whenever she can... she reminds me... "You be proud son, you got Texas blood in them veins." She still considers herself a Texan-American, even though she moved years ago.  I can see why Texans are proud of their state... like Kaylo said... it has a bit of every environment... both rural and cosmopolitan.  Where else can you legally go 80 mph (the posted speed limit on some highways in TX) and not get a ticket. Texas does seem to seem to have a pioneer spirit.... like I said... thats just my opinion.  Im not positive, but I think I remember reading that Texas has low taxes, both personal and corporate.  I am one for small government, and low taxes.  Texas is partly like this... socially, Texas needs some work, but then again, I am a Libertarian.  If Texas ever did break away, I agree with O'Hare...(even though he DID compare hillbillys to hippys in a past thread, which I did not particularly care for... but I digress...) the country wouldnt stand for it one bit.  Texas has a huge economy, and the US just couldnt afford to lose a state that big.  I remember that in Loving County, TX (Population about 60 people) a land owner/rancher tried to move a bunch of his friends onto his property, have them become residents, and then have him voted in as Sheriff.  He wanted to create a "free" society.  Wanna marry your cousin, same sex, polygamy?  Go for it... Drugs, prostitution, its all good to him.  He just basically wanted a rogue party county.  When The state found out about it, he was run out of town.  I believe that this is how it would turn out for Texas if it tried something like that...   

[Narei Mooncatt]

I live in San Antonio, Texas, and I have to say; I don't want Texas to become it's own country.
I don't know if it's because of where I live, but I've never seen that bumper sticker Jake posted, and really I've never met anyone who wanted Texas to be it's own country.
I don't think it would be for the best interest of the people.
For one, I wouldn't want to have to go through security check points every time I wanted to go out of state, and even worse; have to deal with what people would say when I tell them I'm from Texas.
Judging from some comments in this thread, people already see us as crazy; that would only amplify tenfold if we were to secede.
I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to secede, but I think this is just another case of extremists making normal people look crazy.

This. Especially the part about not seeing or knowing anyone personally that wants to secede. It's been years since I lived in Texas, but back then it was just a small number of people actively wanting it. Kinda like how a creative camera angle can make a protest of 10 look like 10,000, media focused a lot on them and thus it became news.

I'm still proud of my Texas upbringing, and my love of BBQ (which I think would be a requirement for citizenship should they sucede. ). Hard to explain, but Texas seems to have some of the most loyal citizens. They also seem to be some of the most patriotic to the nation as well. At least more so than those patriots of Texas as a nation. While Texas may be able to be self sufficient in a lot of areas, there's one big reason I doubt we would be able to sucede. Military. Even though it's a huge area, it's mostly sparsely populated, so building their own military worth anything would be a tough task and thus rely on a lot of U.S. support anyway. Almost like needing our big brother to fend off the bullies, and I don't see too many Texans liking that idea.

[CiceroKit]

There are people in just about every state within these United States that want their state to secede. That war was already fought nearly 150 years ago! Why not talk about inclusion instead of exclusion? Isn't about time that Puerto Rico become a state? They've been a U.S. Territory for over 100 years.

[Narei Mooncatt]

Not to get off topic, but from what I've heard and read, Puerto Ricans don't even want to be a state for the most part. At least not enough to be able to pass their own referendums to advance a statehood push.

[J. March OHare]

Cimarron: "If Texas ever did break away, I agree with O'Hare...(even though he DID compare hillbillys to hippys in a past thread, which I did not particularly care for... but I digress...)"

Yeah, you did, and I can't leave it alone even at the risk of ticking off the moderators, which I don't want to do, but...

I said hillbillies and hippies are somewhat similar, in that they cherish arts and crafts, their grooming styles are similar and they'd rather be left alone to do as they please. Also remember, I'm 51. I grew up around real hippies, not the brown rice anti-smoking hippies and trustafarians (trust fund losers) that we see today.

Real hillbillies and real hippies are valuable people, with artistic and survival skills far above average. That's all I meant.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled... eh, whatever.

[DeltaFur]

I live in San Antonio, Texas, and I have to say; I don't want Texas to become it's own country.
I don't know if it's because of where I live, but I've never seen that bumper sticker Jake posted, and really I've never met anyone who wanted Texas to be it's own country.
I don't think it would be for the best interest of the people.
For one, I wouldn't want to have to go through security check points every time I wanted to go out of state, and even worse; have to deal with what people would say when I tell them I'm from Texas.
Judging from some comments in this thread, people already see us as crazy; that would only amplify tenfold if we were to secede.
I'm not saying that there aren't people who want to secede, but I think this is just another case of extremists making normal people look crazy.

Ditto to this. It's a joke among all the people I know, in my little corner of the Lone Star State.

[Alsek]

*nodnods* Nothing against the opinion of the populous here, everyone else is just as entitled to their own opinion as I am to mine, I don't see eye to eye with the locals was all.  

The example I gave meant that most of the state is in agreeance with itself, which would be a big driving point behind secession  

That's just the point.  You disagree with the locals.  You don't live around them,  why does it matter to you how we live?

We're both entitled to our opinions,  yes,  but why does your entire region have any say in how my entire region lives their daily lives?


If the citizens of one state believe one way,  then let it be a state choice.  Your opinion affects your state,   your region.   My opinion affects my state,  my region.  The only reason you should ever have issues with the opinions of a Texan is if their opinions affect you,  which only happens when they vote for a federal law.

Likewise,  a Texan will only be bothered by your opinion when you take it upon yourself to make a federal law that affects them.


I believe the concept of a federal law is overused,  and abused,  and I don't want my state to be subject to them anymore.  I think that while you are entitled to run your own states however you please,  you cross a line when telling us how to run ours apart from the really key important things like national defense.

Things like national abortion laws,  weapons bans of any kind...  ect.  Let the states figure that out for themselves.  People who don't like living in one state can move to whichever one suits them better,  trust me,  there's a full spectrum between CA and TX.


We all know Texas isn't going anywhere.  We have a large amount of NASA,  we train the military pilots,  we have a large amount of the armed forces,  and unlike California we aren't in a horrible amount of debt.  The country isn't going to let the state go anywhere.  ^.~

But as for why those who want it do,  it all comes down to states rights.

[Kay Alett]

But states are not entirely individuals, we are all part of the U.S.A. and even if it doesn't quite seem like it, what one state does will effect another. It's like a group of people getting together to form an organisation, they become a part of the whole and once you do that you are/should be subject to special rules and restrictions that may make the organisation look bad.

Lincolin once said "A house divided cannot stand". He was just as right then as he is now, the states shouldn't bicker and argue over minor things. I think each state should indeed do what they feel is the right thing to do, but most importantly they should refrain from things will weaken the country.
But I think at this point I may be drifting away from the subject.

[Kris]

*nodnods* Nothing against the opinion of the populous here, everyone else is just as entitled to their own opinion as I am to mine, I don't see eye to eye with the locals was all.  

The example I gave meant that most of the state is in agreeance with itself, which would be a big driving point behind secession  

That's just the point.  You disagree with the locals.  You don't live around them,  why does it matter to you how we live?

We're both entitled to our opinions,  yes,  but why does your entire region have any say in how my entire region lives their daily lives?


If the citizens of one state believe one way,  then let it be a state choice.  Your opinion affects your state,   your region.   My opinion affects my state,  my region.  The only reason you should ever have issues with the opinions of a Texan is if their opinions affect you,  which only happens when they vote for a federal law.

I -do- live in Texas, by the way.  

The point I was trying to make a few posts back was that it IS the state's choice to secede or not, and that a number of folks here actually want to.  My opinion was I don't agree with a lot of things about texas, and on a seperate note, I don't think the state's ready for secession, even if its possible given the diversity of industry/etc that the state possesses.

[Narei Mooncatt]

I believe the concept of a federal law is overused,  and abused,  and I don't want my state to be subject to them anymore.

Do you know if Texas has joined with some of the others that have started asserting their 10th amendment rights, and denouncing federal laws that are unconstitutional? That would knock out a lot of federal laws.

[J. March OHare]

Jake: "...on a seperate note, I don't think the state's ready for secession, even if its possible given the diversity of industry/etc that the state possesses."

Here's the point I was trying to convey earlier: it doesn't matter whether or not Texas is ready for secession; all that matters is if the Federal Government of the United States of America is ready for it to secede. And barring a collapse the likes of which has not been seen since the demise of the Late, Great Soviet Union (entirely possible), it won't be.