Author Topic: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)  (Read 60649 times)

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Offline redyoshi49q

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #275 on: February 11, 2012, 06:07:47 pm »
This episode had a pony obcessed with jam and a prominent (if brief) showing of Dr. Whooves.  It also had a very healthy dosage of Big Macintosh (I loved the scene where he bobbed his head "yes" to any piece of jewelry offered to him in sale), and a pony in a wedding dress on a mattress in a hole.  The episode was quite entertaining, to say the least.

I have a feeling that Hoagiebot is going to go ballistic on account of Cherilee's prominence in this episode, though I'm not entirely sure if it's going to be a good kind of ballistic or a bad kind of ballistic.  (*waits for him to post in order to find out*)
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #276 on: February 11, 2012, 09:57:12 pm »
Oh my. All that sugary sweet sappy lovey dovey talk. Bleh! :D

May have more to say after a second viewing and can pay more attention. Had the kids watching with me the first time.
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Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #277 on: February 12, 2012, 03:19:52 am »
I really want to watch "Hearts and Hooves Day" -- but, I was busy all day, until it was time to put my four-year-old daughter to bed.  It doesn't seem right to watch it without her though, so now I have to wait until tomorrow.
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Offline Hoagiebot

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #278 on: February 12, 2012, 01:28:37 pm »
Apparently Hearts and Hooves was leaked. Has anyone seen it yet?

I did obtain the iTunes version of the episode the day it was leaked and had fully intended to watch the episode early while laughing fiendishly, but in a tragic story of woe that seems to be typical for a Hoagiebot such as myself, forces beyond my control moved against me and the earliest that I could watch the episode was when it first aired on HUB yesterday morning.  I suppose that was for the best, at least where My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic's television advertisers are concerned, but it took all of the fun out of having possession of an early leaked video.  *grumbles*  As for what happened to cause my delay with watching the episode, let's just say that a certain uncooperative family member's hair drier and my computer equipment had a pitched battle, and my computers lost.  The circuit breaker tripped, my Vista box went down hard, and when it came back up the primary drive's NTFS file system had a bad segment in its USN Journal.  That lead to corruption in the Windows Indexing Service's index amongst other weird things, and after a day or so of putting out small metaphorical fires, investigating weird behaviors, and fixing small problems as I came across them, things still aren't working quite right.  Eh, I will eventually get everything sorted out.  Anyway, $300 (that I couldn't really afford to spend) and two brand new APC 1250VA Uninterrupted Power Supplies later and my diabolical computerized reign of terror is now Sealed-Lead-Acid Battery backed.

Anyway, I digress...

I have a feeling that Hoagiebot is going to go ballistic on account of Cherilee's prominence in this episode, though I'm not entirely sure if it's going to be a good kind of ballistic or a bad kind of ballistic.  (*waits for him to post in order to find out*)


* Hoagiebot Goes Ballistic! *  (Film at eleven!!!)

Yes!  I absolutely did go ballistic over this episode!  In fact, I went straight into orbit!  But now to answer redyoshi49q's question-- was it the good kind of ballistic or the bad kind of ballistic?  Well, to answer that, lets see where the Hoagiebot-Jones Industrial Pony Stock Index closed at the end of the trading session yesterday:

Saturday's high volume traded stocks on the HJIPSE:  CHRLE ^^^^^   SWTBL ^^^   APLBM =   SCTLO ^   TSPKL =   BGMAC =

Hmmm.  It looks like the market had a rally!  Cheerilee's stock value shot through the roof!  :D  In any case, redyoshi49q is right-- I have made it pretty obvious that I have a bit of thing for Ponyville's magenta-colored school teacher!  As I mentioned in the "Furry Crush" thread in this forum about a month and a half ago, arguably my first and longest cartoon character crush was on "Duchess," the mother cat from the Disney animated feature The Aristocats. Cheerilee kind of has that same kind of overall super kind and patient almost super sweet motherly personality, which makes her kind of the "equivalent" character for me in this show.  That is what probably made me take so much notice of her as far back as "The Cutie Pox."  (Actually, what first made me take notice of her was what a terrible school teacher that I thought that she was because she let all of her students watch Apple Bloom twirl her hoop-de-loops instead of making them go back inside the school house and study, but what can I say, Cheerilee has really grown on me since then!)  I don't know what my liking that kind of character (especially in the form of a "My Little Pony") says about my psyche, but I am sure that sometime in the far future it will give some Psychologist a fascinating topic to write a peer review journal article about after some super hero/British secret agent/my own mad science creation gone wrong finally defeats me and I get locked away in an asylum just like my personal role model, the Fringe character "Dr. Walter Bishop" did before me.  But until that day inevitably comes, I am just going to keep <3'ing Cheerilee!  *squee!*

As you all have probably guessed by now, I absolutely loved this episode of ponies!  In fact, "Hearts and Hooves Day" officially takes the spot as my second most favorite episode of this season thus far!  ("Luna Eclipsed" still just barely beats it out, though!)  I loved the episode so much that I was absolutely shocked when I found out later that it was written by MLP"FiM staff writer Meghan McCarthy.  Why?  Well, she hasn't exactly been my most favorite of MLP:FiM writers this season.  "Sweet and Elite" was alright, but I was not a fan of "Lesson Zero."  So my absolutely adoring this episode by her really surprised me, and she gets a gold star in my book for it!  You know, for a while there early on this season's episodes seemed to be pretty hit or miss.  There would be one that would air that I kind of liked, followed by one that would air that I kind of didn't, and so on.  But now with "The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000," "Read it and Weep," and "Hearts and Hooves Day" we have had three absolutely awesome top notch MLP:FiM episodes in a row!  This show is definitely on a roll, and I am absolutely elated about it!  *cheers!*

Discussing my thoughts, reactions, and observations about this episode is going to be a tough one for me this time around because I am no doubt viewing everything through a pair of beautiful Cheerilee-colored glasses, but for the sake of scientific integrity I will try to be as clinical and impartial as possible...  Aw who am I kidding!  This episode had Cheerilee in it!  Biased opinions and skewed perceptions it is!   :D

  • 0:09 - Unlike last week's episode, this one starts out with some pizazz!  I absolutely loved the opening scene!  The Cutie Mark Crusaders were in rare form here!  I chuckled when Apple Bloom added more hoof prints to their Valentine and Scootaloo added more glitter, and I thought that the background music that was playing while all of this was going on was great too!  And the fact that their card was far too big for their envelope was cute too!  As soon as I saw this opening scene I knew that this episode was going to be a good one!
  • 1:31 - Cheerilee: "It's lovely, and so... big!"  Hmm.  I just might have to rip that little bit of audio into an MP3 file and save it for later...   :D  (O.K. O.K., I will try to keep these kinds of jokes to a minimum, but this line was just begging for it!  Come on, admit it-- when you first heard her say this line you were thinking of a joke like this too!)
  • 2:00 - What what what!?  You mean to tell me that all of this time Cheerilee was single!?  I mean I realized that the her students always made it a point to call her "Miss Cheerilee," but having a pony with the title of "Miss" does not necessarily single make.  This opens up a whole new world of opportunities!  The bronies that are making that "My Little Pony: Love is Magic" dating sim game better be taking note of this, because Cheerilee being single is a problem that I need to fix!   :D
  • 2:07 - I love Cheerilee's facial expression right here!  I definitely know the feeling!
  • 2:08 - Cheerilee: "It's alright Sweetie Belle.  I have lots of good friends and wonderful students who care about me very much.  I am going to have an absolutely terrific Hearts and Hooves Day!"  Yeah, you just keep tellin' yourself that sister.  I use self-delusion to help cope with the depressing reality that is St. Valentine's Day every year too.
  • 2:37 - Did anybody else notice that while Sweetie Belle was talking here that in the background behind her one of Cheerilee's other students ended up accidentially pinning the heart on Cheerilee instead of the pony poster that was up on the wall?  I love it when they do gags in the background like this!
  • 2:57 - Bro hoof!
  • 3:24 - I laughed at how Apple Bloom and Scootaloo's heads were bobbing back and forth to the song's beat here!  For whatever reason, it looked very funny to me!
  • 3:31 - Derpy sighting!  There she is, talking to some stallion on a bridge in the far right of the frame!  As much as I wish that I could take credit for spotting her myself, I actually missed this very quick and short appearance during my first couple viewings.  It wasn't until someone mentioned seeing her in the comments on this episode on the MLP:FiM Wiki that I was able to go back and spot her.  But hey, she's there!  She's there!  And by the looks of it she's talking to... Dr. Whooves?  Well, according the the "Derpy Hooves" Pony Spotlight #10, Dr. Whooves is the most famous fan fiction shipping pair-up for Derpy, so I guess that this is actually a small shout-out to the brony community right there!  Awesome!
  • 3:33 - *GASP!*  Did you see that!  That young colt was playing a stand-up arcade machine!  Do you know what this means!?  The ponies have microprocessor technology!!! (Or at the very least discrete logic circuits!)  Up until now I thought that those ponies were all a bunch of computerless savages, but this seems to show otherwise!  Well, unless that arcade game somehow works through unicorn magic that is.  Darn unicorns.  They have a knack for ruining everything for me!
  • 4:18 - Speaking of arcade games, Q*BERT!
  • 4:36 - The three little CMC's happily trotting along in a line like that is sooooo adorable!
  • 5:22 - Bro hoof #2!
  • 7:20 - Sweetie Belle: "Oh come on!!!"   :D :D :D  This was the funniest part of the entire episode for me!  I still laugh every time that I hear Sweetie Belle yell out that line!  In fact, this is my second most favorite MLP:FiM joke all season!  (With my first being the "Look what you did to Spike!" moment from "Luna Eclipsed!")
  • 8:34 - A love potion eh?  Now we have something interesting going on here!  Why with this, Cheerilee will be mine!  Muhahaha!  Let's see, what were those ingredients again?  Hmm.  A "tuft of cloud."  O.K., I've got that.  Then there was "a bright rainbow's glow."  O.K., I can do that too.  "Stir with a pegasus feather, fast not slow."  Um...  Pegasus feather...  Dang it!  They don't have any of that at my local grocery store!  Geez, is that something that only those exotic Asian ethnic specialty grocery stores carry or something?  Gosh, I was so darn close to completing that recipe too!  Well, it looks like I am going to spend yet another Hearts and Hooves Day alone and eating my powerless tuft-of-cloud and bright-rainbow-glow parfaits by myself then!  *sigh*
  • 10:28 - You know, back in college there were a few people who tended to call Everclear mixed with Kool-Aid "punch," and it probably worked a lot like this.
  • 11:16 - At this point, the "baby talk" and overly-elaborate pet names start to ensue...

Oh my. All that sugary sweet sappy lovey dovey talk. Bleh! :D

For Cheerilee, she can call me whatever she wants!  If being her "smoopy doopy pony pie" is what floats her boat, then so be it.  Besides, it's a lot better than the things that girls usually end up saying to me, which more or less sum up to, "Go get bent."

  • 13:25 - Do you all remember the little soap box rant that I had over the opening scene of "Read it and Weep" last week?  About how it didn't effectively use the visual medium that is television?  Well, this scene right here shows how it *should* be done.  The animators could have gotten away with only showing Apple Bloom while she was saying what a disaster it would be to have Cheerilee and Big McIntosh shirk their responsibilities, but instead they went the extra mile and visually showed what would happen in a Ponyville without Cheerilee and Big McIntosh.  That is way more powerful.  That is an effective use of the medium right there.
  • 14:54 - Hmmm.  With a photo of the humble and lovable Hoagiebot Photoshopped into that picture frame that Cheerilee is holding, that scene just make make a good Windows desktop wallpaper...
  • 15:09 - I love how Cheerilee and Big McIntosh slip and smack their faces together when they hear the mentioning of marriage!  LOL!
  • 15:46 - Cheerilee smashed straight through that door!  LOL!  (Note to self: Install reinforced bank vault doors into any future Ponyville bachelor pad, especially where there is the possibility that wedding dress shopping could be mentioned.)
  • 16:25 - While it wouldn't serve to well for this particular episode's plot, given Rarity's special talent for gem finding you would think that her boutique would be the source for both Ponyville's dresses *and* their jewelry.  But then again, Rarity is primarily a dress maker, so maybe she takes the raw gems that she finds over to this jeweler stallion to have them made into jewelry?  *shrugs*  Also, I hope that Big McIntosh kept the return receipt for that diamond!
  • 17:24 - An random ox cart filled with anvils!  LOL!
  • 18:06 - I hope that mare's home owner's insurance covers this!   :D
  • 18:46 - Scootaloo: "I sure am glad you found those shovels."  LOL!
  • 19:09 - Man, Cheerilee just head-butted her way through another door, and um, took out part of the wall with it!  That mare is tougher than she looks!  And on a side note, she looks pretty darn good in a veil!   :)
  • 19:53 - Cheerilee: "Are you sitting on a feather bed in a hole in the ground?"  Admittedly none of my own fantasies ever ended up this way, but I suppose that if they did I wouldn't complain!  :D

So there you have it!  Well, as much as I would love to write something profound like I usually do about how this episode overuses this trope or that trope or violates the "8 essential plot points" of screenplay writing or something like that, the fact is:

1. I don't think that I noticed any major problems.  I loved this episode!  *cheers!*
2. I have already been working on this post for the lion's share of 8-straight hours (which I think is a record), and just want to be done with it at this point and go to bed.
3. It's keeping me from dreaming about Cheerilee.  See the last part of reason #2.

So let this be an important lesson to all of the current and aspiring My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic staff writers out there:  If you don't want me picking apart the writing of your episodes in excruciating detail then you need to throw me a bone in the form a large amount of screen time featuring Spitfire or Cheerilee, just like you would throw a porterhouse steak at a guard dog before you break into someplace!  Then I will um... look the other way.  You see, everypony has their price, and mine just happens to be large amounts of Cheerilee!   :D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 05:51:47 pm by Alexandre »

Offline Landrav

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #279 on: February 12, 2012, 02:58:06 pm »
Hoagie seems to have covered a lot of the real highlights of the episode, but I have to add...

SCOOTA-GLIDE! :D

I really want that filly to get her own episode.
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Offline aspect

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #280 on: February 12, 2012, 03:38:40 pm »
2. I have already been working on this post for the lion's share of 8-straight hours (which I think is a record), and just want to be done with it at this point and go to bed.

Well wow! We all appreciate what you do Hoagiebot. :) And I mean the mad science as well as the episode reviews of course.

Speaking of which, it sounds like there is a mad science episode coming up, doesn't it? Twilight Sparkle invents time travel and goes back in time to warn herself about something, slated for March 10th! Gee I should finish my own 'mad science sparkle' fic(s) before then shouldn't I??

Anyway about the episode. I too very much enjoyed it. "LOVE POISON!?" seems like a great concept to me, though of course it wasn't originally invented as a poison. There's also this general sense of science gone wrong to the whole thing, though of course on the big issue of whether love potion is inherently wrong to meddle with it came down somewhat on the Luddite side.

I was also very happy to see Cheerilee go on a date with BM at the end too, even if they did wink about it. I don't know why but I'm always very satisfied by little things like 'since you're doing his chores now he's free to go on a picnic' I mean, it makes it more like the CMC unintentionally-yet-intentionally got Cheerilee a boyfriend. *shrug* maybe someone who knows more about fiction can tell me why I seek such little puzzle-pieces-falling-together moments.

Speaking of which Hoagiebot's general inability to criticise this episode is a good example of one of my little pet theories about fiction, namely that obviously no literature (let's call FiM literature for the moment) is actually perfect (ie uncriticiseable), but all a piece has to do is fill some quota of desirable elements (let's use the technical term "neat things") for the individual viewer to be satisfied with it overall. In the early days of video, just showing interesting scenes onscreen was enough, so plot demand was minimal, for example. Modern action movies are sometimes the equivalent of this, trying to string together a certain amount of dramatic scenes using whatever plot comes to hand. Fanfics naturally have a different set of "neat things" at their disposal, such as doing a good job portraying a specific character, bringing out an aspect of the show which isn't focused on in the canon, or simply making good use of a gag from the show.

OK enough rambling, I excitedly await next week and hope there is more singing again :D

Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #281 on: February 12, 2012, 06:53:30 pm »
The upcoming time-travel Twilight episode sounds fantastic.  I'm also really looking forward to a Fluttershy episode.  It's about time!

As for Hearts & Hooves Day, I agree with the general trend here:  great episode with many things to like.  I especially liked that they left it completely ambiguous at the end as to whether Cheerilee and Big Mac were actually going on a date or just messing with the CMC.  I also liked that Cheerilee really did sound completely okay with spending Hearts & Hooves Day without a "very special somepony."  I've always liked Valentine's Day -- it's a celebration of chocolate and hearts and pink and red and flowers.  But I know a lot of people get really upset about how it leaves out single people.  I liked that Hearts & Hooves Day was presented more the way that I see Valentine's Day -- a celebration of heart shaped cards and silly party games at the school.
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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #282 on: February 12, 2012, 11:01:20 pm »
I was gone all weekend (and week), so I haven't gotten to watch it yet. It's difficult to avoid spoilers entirely, though. Especially when one still wants to check EQD to see if I missed any news in the last week. Oh well, I've heard good things about it, so I can't wait to get to it tomorrow after work.

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #283 on: February 15, 2012, 12:48:02 pm »
Well wow! We all appreciate what you do Hoagiebot. :) And I mean the mad science as well as the episode reviews of course.

I really do appreciate your saying that, Aspect.  I don't know why it took me so much longer than usual to write my episode analysis post this last time around.  Taking 5 or 6-hours to type out a MLP:FiM analysis is pretty typical for me, but 8-hours is pretty extreme.  Maybe it was because I was still all aflutter from a Cheerilee episode induced hangover, or maybe it was because I was exhausted at the time that I wrote the post because I did it after moving computer equipment around all night (let that be a lesson to all of you aspiring mad scientists out there-- do not stack over 700-lbs. of computing equipment in front of the electrical outlet that you need to get to.  It may seem like a great place to stack three columns of Sun workstations 4-feet high at the time, but believe me, you'll eventually live to regret it when you need to plug something new in!).  Either way, my mind was just not as focused as a result.  

Speaking of which Hoagiebot's general inability to criticise this episode is a good example of one of my little pet theories about fiction, namely that obviously no literature (let's call FiM literature for the moment) is actually perfect (ie uncriticiseable), but all a piece has to do is fill some quota of desirable elements (let's use the technical term "neat things") for the individual viewer to be satisfied with it overall.

I was actually joking when I said, "If you don't want me picking apart the writing of your episodes in excruciating detail then you need to throw me a bone in the form a large amount of screen time featuring Spitfire or Cheerilee, just like you would throw a porterhouse steak at a guard dog before you break into someplace!  Then I will um... look the other way."  I didn't criticize the episode "Hearts and Hooves Day" because there really wasn't much of anything that I personally noticed that could be criticized.  I will agree with you that nothing can be perfect, but this episode was still extremely strong.  I seriously can't really find anything in the episode that I would want to complain about.  The episode's opening gag before the theme song was cute, the episode had a very good musical number with the song "The Perfect Stallion," its story worked extremely well, it didn't ruin the character of Cheerilee for me (in fact it made me like her that much more), and as I mentioned in my previous post, it used the visual medium of television to portray information very effectively during several scenes, such as the scene where Apple Bloom is envisioning a Ponyville where Big McIntosh and Cheerilee were shirking their responsibilities, which I found to be notable.  The animation for this episode was also very good, with some very funny character animations and some very good "camera work."  And I don't think that I am the only person here who was pleased with this episode-- most of the other comments here about "Hearts and Hooves Day" have been overwhelmingly positive as well.  But if you want me to try to break this episode down a bit further, I can try to oblige you.  I could use the further practice at studying how television screenplays are written, anyway.

Anyway about the episode. I too very much enjoyed it. "LOVE POISON!?" seems like a great concept to me, though of course it wasn't originally invented as a poison. There's also this general sense of science gone wrong to the whole thing, though of course on the big issue of whether love potion is inherently wrong to meddle with it came down somewhat on the Luddite side.

As enjoyable as this episode is, the "love potion" plot that it revolved around wasn't necessarily profound or groundbreaking by any means.  TVTropes.org has a trope for it, called conveniently enough, "Love Potion."  The first sentence for the trope reads as follows:

Quote
Ah, the Love Potion. Not since the Eskimo Freezer was patented has there ever been such a useless invention. Not that love potions are ineffective, mind you; it's just that they rarely ever work as intended, to the point where one wonders why a character would even bother to use them at all. When you see someone employ a Love Potion these days, you almost expect it to fail. It should be a Discredited Trope by this time, but for some reason, even the most Genre Savvy of characters continue to use Love Potions, with said potions continuing to cause far more trouble than they're worth.

That is exactly what the central conflict for this for this episode was in a nutshell: a love potion that didn't work out as intended.  This isn't a complaint on my part, however.  As TVTropes itself states, "tropes are not bad."  Tropes are just storytelling tools, and like any tool they can be used for good, such as using a hammer to build a house, or they can be used for bad, such as using that same hammer to hit someone in the back of the head with.  Tropes when employed in stories can end up helping or hurting as well: you can build a solid story with them when they are used in a thought out and creative way, or they can detract from your story if they are used improperly or carelessly.  As I mentioned, I thought that this episode was absolutely great, so I am of the opinion that the "Love Potion" trope was employed extremely well in "Hearts and Hooves Day."

If you want me to analyze this episode even further, I can break the story of "Hearts and Hooves Day" into its major plot points under Syd Field's Paradigm.  When you do this, you you get something along the lines of:

  • Exposition: ("Provides some background information to the audience about the plot, characters' histories, setting, and theme.")  The short opening scene before the credits provides much of this.  You learn that it's "Hearts and Hooves" day from the opening scene, that Apple Bloom, Sweetie Belle, and Scootaloo care their teacher, Miss Cheerilee, and that they want her to be happy on that day, whether that means that they make her the perfect "Hearts and Hooves Day" card or otherwise.
  • Inciting Incident: ("Also called the catalyst, this is the point in the story when the Protagonist encounters the problem that will change their life.")  Happens at 1:57.  The Cutie Mark Crusaders learn that their beloved teacher, Miss Cheerilee, doesn't have a special somepony for Hearts and Hooves Day.  Apple Bloom: "If anybody pony deserves a very special somepony it's her."  Sweetie Belle: "I'm more than alright!  I've just come up with the best idea ever!  We're going to find Miss Cheerilee a very special somepony!"  This starts the Cutie Mark Crusaders on a quest to find Cheerilee a special somepony for Hearts and Hooves Day.
  • Plot Point 1: ("The last scene in Act I, Turning Point 1 is a surprising development that changes the plot's direction and begins the second act.")  I would argue that Plot Point 1 occurs just after the 8:00 mark, when the CMC's learn from Twilight Sparkle about the existence of a Hearts and Hooves Day love potion.  This begins Act II, where they make and use the love potion.
  • Midpoint: ("An important scene in the middle of the script, often a reversal of fortune or revelation that changes the direction of the story.")  At the 11:13 mark (which is about as close to the exact midpoint of a 22-minute episode as you can get!), Cheerilee and Big McIntosh both drink the love poison and to the Cutie Mark Crusaders' surprise, they don't start acting the way that the Crusaders expected them to.  The CMC's instantly recognize that something has gone seriously wrong with their love potion plan, and now they have to find a way to revert Cheerilee and Big McIntosh back to their original selves.
  • Plot Point 2: ("A dramatic reversal that ends Act 2 and begins Act 3, which is about confrontation and resolution.") At around 13:40, the end of Act II is denoted by an "all is lost" plot point, where Apple Bloom panics and starts imagining what would happen to Ponyville without Big McIntosh and Cheerilee.  The reversal comes when Sweetie Belle determines from reading the book that there is an antidote to the love poison, and that begins Act III.  Act III is focused on the CMC's attempt to keep Big McIntosh and Cheerilee apart from one another for an hour to reverse the effects of the love poison.
  • Climax or Showdown: ("The point at which the plot reaches its maximum tension and the forces in opposition confront each other at a peak of physical or emotional action.") The climax in Act III happens at the 17:00 mark.  Apple Bloom, Sweetie Belle, and Scootaloo need to do everything that they can to slow down the seemingly unstoppable force that is Big McIntosh, and keep him away from Cheerilee long enough to allow the love poison to lose its power.  This culminates with Cheerilee charging towards her beloved Big Mac in the pit and smacking into him head-on at the last second, causing them both fall into the pit and leaving the audience to wonder whether or not the CMC's were able to delay the two of them from meeting for long enough to cure them of the poison.
  • Resolution or Denouement: ("The brief period of calm at the end of a film where a state of equilibrium returns.") Starts at 20:58.  The love poison has been cured, everything is back to normal, and the CMC's are doing Big McIntosh's chores as their punishment for meddling with the relationship between him and Cheerilee.

So as you can see, all of the major plot points typically found in screen plays are there, which is probably yet another reason why the story of this episode seemed so satisfying.  The third act also employed a "Race Against the Clock" trope, which added greatly to the tension and made the third act really exciting.  So it really wasn't just the large amount of screen time for the charming Cheerilee that made me love this episode (though that certainly didn't hurt it)--  this episode was also extremely well-written, well animated, and had a great musical score as well.  As far as I am concerned, everyone from the writers to the voice actors to the animators were at the top of their game with this one-- I couldn't ask for any better than this in any cartoon, and I hope that if I ever get a chance to make an animated short myself someday that it ends up being even half as good as "Hearts and Hooves Day."

I also liked that Cheerilee really did sound completely okay with spending Hearts & Hooves Day without a "very special somepony."

I am going to have to disagree with you here, Ryffnah.  While Cheerilee may have made it sound like she was O.K. when she said, "It's alright Sweetie Belle.  I have lots of good friends and wonderful students who care about me very much.  I am going to have an absolutely terrific Hearts and Hooves Day!", that was just her being a responsible teacher and not wanting to reveal anything about her personal life to her young students.  Just look at Cheerilee's facial expression when Sweetie Belle says, "How could somepony as amazing as you not have a special somepony on Hearts and Hooves Day?":


That is not the face of someone who is happy to be reminded that they are alone and don't have a special someone.  Cheerilee may be able to put on a good facade for the children, but on the inside she is not happy about being alone on "Hearts and Hooves Day", and that facial reaction of hers is a brief reflection of her true feelings.


Speaking of which, it sounds like there is a mad science episode coming up, doesn't it? Twilight Sparkle invents time travel and goes back in time to warn herself about something, slated for March 10th!

I too am very much looking forward to the upcoming Twilight Sparkle time travel episode, "It's About Time."  Ever since I first saw the Back to the Future film trilogy as a kid I have been a huge fan of time travel... and flying DeLoreans... but mostly time travel.  In fact, my favorite fiction book has long been The Time Machine by H.G. Wells, and my favorite movie of all-time, The Terminator, also features time travel prominently as part of its plot along with one of my favorite hero tropes, the "Future Bad*ss."  (Note to the moderator: that is TVTropes.org's name for that type of character, not mine.)  Since I doubt that there is going to be any "future bad*ss" characters in My Little Pony (though it would be absolutely awesome if their were-- could you imagine a hardcore battle-hardened Rainbow Dash from the future wearing grungy black armor, being covered in scars, and having one robotic eye?  My main man Tirek could easily provide the bad future for that Rainbow Dash to come back in time from!), this upcoming episode is probably going to be an example of the trope, "Set Right What Once Went Wrong."  TVTropes.org describes this trope as:

Quote
The character receives foreknowledge of what will happen (or, if Time Travel is involved, Ripple-Effect-Proof Memory will allow them to remember what happened "the first time around") and has to correct it.

That's all well and good-- Twilight Sparkle receiving a warning from her future self could lead to a great story.  There was one thing that was mentioned in the TV Listing episode summary for this episode that worries me however: "Twilight receives a warning from her future self and drives herself crazy with worry".  I want to see Twilight Sparkle acting on the information that she receives from her future self and actively trying to change future events.  I don't want to see her just sitting around and going crazy worrying about what could come to pass.  I saw enough of Twilight Sparkle going crazy in "Lesson Zero" to last a lifetime as far as I'm concerned.  As a result, I sincerely hope that the TV listing episode summary is just describing the first act of the episode, and not the entire episode.  If Twilight only worries during the first act, then at the beginning of the second act she can resolve to change her fate, then at the mid-point she can discover that she only succeeded at making everything worse through her attempted changes, and then for the third act she can discover one last crazy dangerous way to make everything better again, only to just barely successfully resolve things in the end.  If the events play out like that, then this episode can be really good.  In any case, we have more than two weeks yet before we find out, so I have plenty of time to speculate about what the episode will be like until then!  In the meantime, I sincerely hope that this Saturday's upcoming episode, "A Friend in Deed," is going to be good, because I don't want MLP:FiM's current three-episode winning streak of absolutely excellent episodes to be broken.  Instead, I want moar!   :D

Well, that was another 5-hours spent writing about ponies.  I really need to get a life!   :D  But hey, if any MLP:FiM episode deserved two giant text walls instead of one, it was definitely "Hearts and Hooves Day!"
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 01:08:43 pm by Hoagiebot »

Offline Ziel

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #284 on: February 15, 2012, 04:51:13 pm »
I also liked that Cheerilee really did sound completely okay with spending Hearts & Hooves Day without a "very special somepony."

I am going to have to disagree with you here, Ryffnah.  While Cheerilee may have made it sound like she was O.K. when she said, "It's alright Sweetie Belle.  I have lots of good friends and wonderful students who care about me very much.  I am going to have an absolutely terrific Hearts and Hooves Day!", that was just her being a responsible teacher and not wanting to reveal anything about her personal life to her young students.  Just look at Cheerilee's facial expression when Sweetie Belle says, "How could somepony as amazing as you not have a special somepony on Hearts and Hooves Day?":


That is not the face of someone who is happy to be reminded that they are alone and don't have a special someone.  Cheerilee may be able to put on a good facade for the children, but on the inside she is not happy about being alone on "Hearts and Hooves Day", and that facial reaction of hers is a brief reflection of her true feelings.

You are probably right in your assessment, but it could also be her just being fed up with people asking her when she'll be getting a special somepony. (This other view of the situation brought to you by personal experience and my own detestation for the question of when I'll get a girlfriend).

But yeah, that's probably not really what it was. As it stands, if you view it as her true feelings about the day coming out a bit, it kinda does serve to make the CMC's efforts that much more endearing.

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Offline Foxxhoria

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #285 on: February 15, 2012, 05:04:45 pm »
Yeah, while I found this episode kind of boring imo, I noticed I didn't have anything bad to say about it, unlike other episodes I didn't enjoy so much.
I don't dislike this episode at all, I guess I just didn't find it so immediately amazing as others.  It can sit comfortably in my season 2 folder.

One thing I will say though is, what happened to Scootaloo being the sappiness-detesting tomboy of the group?  Applebloom was more disgusted by their shows of romance than Scootaloo was! But I think that's just due to the nature of the plot; Scootaloo wouldn't be a very good part if she was rejecting it all all the time.  So I guess ditching that part of her character for an episode was a necessary sacrifice...
But along with Big Mac not really getting a great deal of characterisation (how far can you get with just "eyup" and "nope"?) and his voice being too deep nowadays (all compared to back when he was a character, back in Applebuck Season), that's my only criticism of this episode really.

Edit:
I will add though, I really like the song for some reason!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 07:20:32 pm by Foxxhoria »
Understanding leads to empathy,
Empathy leads to admiration,
Admiration leads to love

Optimism leads to disappointment,
Pessimism leads to joy,
although, with optimism you are happy almost all the time,
and pessimism you are sad almost all the time.

Where's the line between being bored and generally too lazy to do anything? :p

Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #286 on: February 15, 2012, 11:15:05 pm »
I also liked that Cheerilee really did sound completely okay with spending Hearts & Hooves Day without a "very special somepony."

I am going to have to disagree with you here, Ryffnah.  While Cheerilee may have made it sound like she was O.K. when she said, "It's alright Sweetie Belle.  I have lots of good friends and wonderful students who care about me very much.  I am going to have an absolutely terrific Hearts and Hooves Day!", that was just her being a responsible teacher and not wanting to reveal anything about her personal life to her young students.  Just look at Cheerilee's facial expression when Sweetie Belle says, "How could somepony as amazing as you not have a special somepony on Hearts and Hooves Day?":


That is not the face of someone who is happy to be reminded that they are alone and don't have a special someone.  Cheerilee may be able to put on a good facade for the children, but on the inside she is not happy about being alone on "Hearts and Hooves Day", and that facial reaction of hers is a brief reflection of her true feelings.

You are probably right in your assessment, but it could also be her just being fed up with people asking her when she'll be getting a special somepony. (This other view of the situation brought to you by personal experience and my own detestation for the question of when I'll get a girlfriend).

But yeah, that's probably not really what it was. As it stands, if you view it as her true feelings about the day coming out a bit, it kinda does serve to make the CMC's efforts that much more endearing.

I've watched that short segment several times in a row now -- and I stand by my original assessment.  I believe that particular expression (the one pictured) is the look of an adult who's having to deal with a small child bugging her.  Sweetie Belle is being really annoying right there, turning a perfectly enjoyable holiday into a chance to raise drama.
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #287 on: February 15, 2012, 11:28:21 pm »
Now I'm gonna have to watch that scene to add my vote to either side of this argument. Lol :D
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Offline Landrav

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #288 on: February 15, 2012, 11:36:13 pm »
I'm pretty sure most people will see that scene in light of projecting their own feelings onto Cheerilee (intentionally or not).  Just sayin'.

The one thing in this episode that kind of stood out to me as weird (besides the awkward comedy--I just don't like awkward comedy all that much because I empathize with those characters too easily) was in the song where the CMC's... I dunno, are they skipping?  The animation just made me go "wut."  But it was a really good song, so that made things better :)
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Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #289 on: February 16, 2012, 03:53:09 am »
I'm pretty sure most people will see that scene in light of projecting their own feelings onto Cheerilee (intentionally or not).  Just sayin'.

True.
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Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #290 on: February 16, 2012, 03:57:19 am »
And, actually, walking the line carefully enough that Cheerilee's emotions can be left up to interpretation like this is a pretty neat feature of the episode.  Very much in line with the ambiguity at the end which I enjoyed so much.
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #291 on: February 16, 2012, 10:02:24 am »
I'm gonna have to go with Cheerilee is just frustrated at being pestered about not having a special somepony. When she makes the face in Hoagiebot's pic, you'll notice that it's just that. A frown. There isn't that tail tail sigh of someone that seems to be longing for a mate when the subject is brought up. If she were supposed to be frowning because she was sad that she didn't have somepony, then it would have included more of a pause and long sigh as if reflecting a bit on that thought before turning around. I'm actually surprised Hoagiebot didn't catch that with all those tropes he points out. Granted, the sighing pause may not be a trope per se, but it is one of those things that is ALWAYS represented when someone is supposively longing for a mate secretely before facing the person they're about to address. It's also another way to kind of mentally prepare yourself and steady your nerves a bit to put on that happy face when you're actually saddened.
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Offline Hoagiebot

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #292 on: February 16, 2012, 10:36:49 am »
I'm actually surprised Hoagiebot didn't catch that with all those tropes he points out.

I don't think that I "didn't catch" something in regards to this, as you put it.  I'm sticking with my original assessment of Cheerilee's reaction.

Offline aspect

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #293 on: February 16, 2012, 12:55:46 pm »
I agree that Cheerilee is mostly annoyed not sad; I interpret it as an eye-roll meaning she thinks the idea that you need somepony special to share h&h day with is kind of silly, almost implying this is not the first time she's had to respond to this particular line of conversation. The expression is a little ambiguous, I'll give it that, but the whole scene works better for me thinking the crusaders are off to try and find a date for somepony who doesn't even think it's important.

Offline Ryffnah

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #294 on: February 16, 2012, 04:06:40 pm »
I agree that Cheerilee is mostly annoyed not sad; I interpret it as an eye-roll meaning she thinks the idea that you need somepony special to share h&h day with is kind of silly, almost implying this is not the first time she's had to respond to this particular line of conversation. The expression is a little ambiguous, I'll give it that, but the whole scene works better for me thinking the crusaders are off to try and find a date for somepony who doesn't even think it's important.

From the perspective of a parent who actually has a member of the target demographic in the house watching this episode repeatedly, it's certainly preferable for the show to send the message that it's "kind of silly" to make such a big deal of sharing the day with a very special somepony.  The show really doesn't need to be working five-year-old girls up about the importance of having a boyfriend on Valentine's Day, and I was glad (but not surprised) to see that it really doesn't.  I'll be interested to see how they handle the up-coming wedding story in that regard.
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Offline Foxxhoria

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #295 on: February 18, 2012, 11:53:58 am »
Pinkie Pie episode!

It was pretty awesome.
Pinkie's hyperness and randomness was ramped up just a bit, but there was a point to it unlike in The Last Roundup, where she was just like that just because (except of course when she was annoying AJ).

Cranky-Doodle Donkey was an awesome character, and it's wonderful they addressed a character like this.

There were so many songs!
The Smile(!) song, most notably.  I'd avoided it until it came up in an episode, and while I felt Pinkie sounded kinda weird singing it, it was still an amazing song!
And the others were pretty awesome too.

And there was SO MUCH CONTINUITY!
Too much to go over.

I'm kind of in two minds about how I feel about Dash reading again lol, but, I guess, it is good that the sporty type is shown reading without having to have an episode which rotates around a sudden concern with being "uncool"!

But this was Pinkie Pie doing what she does naturally, and singing all about it!  This episode could only come from Pinkie Pie, and it celebrates Pinkie for who she is while telling her that there are sometimes times she needs to be aware of what she's doing.  It doesn't give her any extra baggage in the episode just to give her a lesson to learn; it comes directly from who she is and what she lives for.

So in all, this was an excellent episode.

And it made me smile lots and lots and lots! :D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 03:45:02 pm by Foxxhoria »
Understanding leads to empathy,
Empathy leads to admiration,
Admiration leads to love

Optimism leads to disappointment,
Pessimism leads to joy,
although, with optimism you are happy almost all the time,
and pessimism you are sad almost all the time.

Where's the line between being bored and generally too lazy to do anything? :p

Offline aspect

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #296 on: February 18, 2012, 05:41:43 pm »
Jolly good episode all around I'd say. Exemplifies the silliness and joy MLP has always stood for.



(I'm sure someone could make a better gif than I did, that's Twilight nodding along behind Pinkie.)

I'd love it if someone made 5 second youtube videos of all the great little clips, such as Pinkie Pie saying "this is serious business everypony!" standing on the flagpole with the megaphone. Well youtube being what it is I'm sure this will happen automatically.

I noticed Dr. Whooves in this episode but he was standing next to somepony who looks similar to Derpy but who is not Derpy (click for bigger):


Offline aspect

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #297 on: February 18, 2012, 06:49:57 pm »
Ah, her name on mlp.wikia.com is Cloud Kicker.

I also kind of like this background pony. :P
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 06:55:33 pm by aspect »

Offline Landrav

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #298 on: February 18, 2012, 10:21:25 pm »
I don't have time for a Hoagiebot-length analysis right now, but I really liked this episode.  The story was pretty good, and Pinkie was better than some of the "LOL Randumb" moments we've had this season, but the true gem in this one is of course the music.  I've got Smile Smile Smile on repeat as we speak, and when someone extracts the background music I'm adding that to my MLP Official Music playlist.

The felt animation was fantastic, and I was surprised to read on EqD that Jayson did that in his basement on his own time!  That dedication makes me love these guys even more, and gives me great hope for future episodes.  Hey, a couple months ago there were a bunch of people saying something about the show going downhill... Did anybody see where they went? I want to show them this awesome song!  ;)

Cranky was a good character, and I loved/hated seeing Pinkie wreck his life--unintentionally, of course!

End credits song... LOL!
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Offline aspect

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Re: MLP:FiM Season 2 Discussion (WARNING! Spoilers Within!)
« Reply #299 on: February 19, 2012, 12:19:38 am »
I decided to learn to make simple youtube videos, so brought to you by the command line tool "melt":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4kMr7HEUzw

And then I decided to do the Cheerilee expression from last week:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR_qGTfyeSY

And then I just got silly and did more Twilight nodding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZspIpCQ6QQ

If anyone knows how to properly convert the Twilight nodding sequence to a gif on the command line I'd be pleased to hear. I used a couple variations of

Code: [Select]
ffmpeg -i twinodcropped.mp4 -b 1000 -r 10 -pix_fmt rgb24 -loop_output 0 twinodcropped.gif -r 10

but the result looked terrible terrible terrible.

EDIT: I have mastered the art of the animated gif. Or creating them on the commandline anyway. (mplayer to extract frames, "convert" to put them back together is apparently the way to go.)



I look forward to creating more gifs next week.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 02:51:28 am by aspect »