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general furry discussion => the polling booth => Topic started by: Onion on October 12, 2009, 05:30:13 pm

Title: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 12, 2009, 05:30:13 pm
Young Zachary (Cub Scout) Was excited. He had just joined the scouts. An age old american tradition. And an enduring sign of patriotism. Excited, he brought his scout eating utincel to school. and was not only suspended for it, but also faces 45 days in reform school. Is this fair?!  >:(

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?no_interstitial
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Narei Mooncatt on October 12, 2009, 06:07:49 pm
Zero tolerance policies = "We don't want to use our brains anymore"

I can see him getting some sort of punishment. Maybe just the suspension...if that. Even that seems too strong to me in this case. Personally, I think that if the family can do it, they should completely snub the school and just home school him all together if the school district is gonna be that anal about things. Besides, home school kids typically do much better in education IIRC.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Foxpup on October 12, 2009, 06:54:36 pm
That's not a knife! That's (http://www.splayd.com.au/) a knife!
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Kay Alett on October 12, 2009, 07:22:09 pm
...And some wonder why I have no faith in humankind...

This is an unjust and unfair punishment that is way too harsh for someone so young. If schools are going to act this stupid then all children should be home schooled, put the whole system out of business and out of our misery.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Relaxing Dragon on October 12, 2009, 08:17:19 pm
I've seen those things, the knife part tends to be no more sharper than the plastic knives they hand out in the cafeteria anyway. I do declare this to be a hefty case of BS.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 12, 2009, 08:25:55 pm
I think this is horrorble. how can a first grade be treated this way. I remember when scout could come to school fully equiped and no one cared. heck they even did stuff to raise money for the school. this is just deplorible.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 12, 2009, 08:53:09 pm
What a moronic, paranoid policy!
Somebody needs to be sent back to kindergarten- and it certainly isn't the kid!
*sigh*
District policy makers...
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Arbutus on October 12, 2009, 09:36:12 pm
Zero tolerance policies = "We don't want to use our brains anymore"

Word. This should be a reminder that occasionally, people with power really are just morons.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: KitsuNinja on October 13, 2009, 01:38:57 pm
Wow.

The stupidity of humans baffle me sometimes.

Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Alsek on October 13, 2009, 04:56:05 pm
"He brought a weapon to school!"

"...Yeah,  6 year old cub scout...  could have totally gone bazerk and harmed someone...  that thing's almost as sharp as a butter knife!1!!"

Yeah...  ...That was his master plan...

Good thing we had a zero tolerance policy to stop him...
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: chaosscizzors on October 14, 2009, 01:13:49 pm
another victim of the human condition lol.
when i was a kid i got in trouble over something similar. i brought one of those guns with the caps that pop when you pull the trigger (i forget what they're called) and almost got suspended for having it in my backpack the entire day. what's really sad is they thought it was a squirt gun, which (i would think) is marginally less dangerous than the gunpowder. >_>

it's one thing to be safe and restrict these things but if it really came down to it they can more than easily restrain a child. lord knows they had no problem doing it to me and i didn't even carry a FAKE weapon on my in school.

edit: i just noticed i never actually answered the question lol.
no he did not deserve any punishment. if he really was a danger he could just as easily beat down another kid with his fists.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Narei Mooncatt on October 14, 2009, 02:40:54 pm
Well the school board turned down the 45 day reform school punishment and were quoted as wondering why the school was so strict with the rule (um... hello. Zero Tolerance policy?). He was out for 2 weeks, but I think as far as his record goes, they're calling it a 5 day suspension, and the policy was also changed to be more lenient on Kindergardeners and 1st graders.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 14, 2009, 03:00:40 pm
Well the school board turned down the 45 day reform school punishment and were quoted as wondering why the school was so strict with the rule (um... hello. Zero Tolerance policy?). He was out for 2 weeks, but I think as far as his record goes, they're calling it a 5 day suspension, and the policy was also changed to be more lenient on Kindergardeners and 1st graders.

Thats great!  :D

but I still think they need to stop and reflect on rules they set. And hopefuly they will change more rules to better fit the atmosphere. Rather then changing a few things just to shut everyone up. >:(
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Savaaha on October 14, 2009, 03:38:15 pm
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Sskessa on October 14, 2009, 05:32:16 pm
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Narei Mooncatt on October 14, 2009, 05:40:23 pm
I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?

BINGO! We have a winner. (IMHO)
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 14, 2009, 05:43:55 pm
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?

I aree with you there. but this is a multiple issue and as far as I am concerned. The american school systems are suffering bad.

Not only are we being out ranked by other countries. But they are cutting days and hours out of school weeks because of the economy. I think this is a huge mistake. We should be trying to incourage Education and progression. Not robbing them of valueble time they could be using to provide a future for them selves. And hopefuly stimulating an almost dead economy. -sigh-
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 14, 2009, 06:42:24 pm
if thats a weapon, take all utensils out of the schools and make them eat with their hands. "Sorry kid, no forks today or ever, you might stab someone with it."

Better yet, tie everyone's hands behind their backs. Hands are the worst weapons of all! Punching, slapping, scratching, the list goes on...

I wonder if these kind of regulations are around just to protect from lawsuits. If Timmy stabbed Tommy with a butter knife, Tommy's parents could sue the school for allowing Timmy to have "weapons," know what I mean?
Well, technically it is a sepparate problem, but they simply try not to fix the real problem by replacing it with another that is 'easier' for them to use.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Alsek on October 17, 2009, 06:57:56 pm
The schools and most other systems are dropping their own ability to differentiate.  For whatever reason,  they want to go to a cold list of rules that are followed to the letter as opposed to following the spirit or intention of the law.  That's why they can seem to tell the difference between the sweet, harmless, cub scout, Zachary with his eating utensils,  and the kid sitting on the other side of the room with a creepy grin holding a butcher knife.  No one wants to take the risk of being a fair judge.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Hyger on October 17, 2009, 07:00:46 pm
It's still a knife, the kid is old enough to realize that. It's just not safe to bring that stuff to school.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 17, 2009, 07:44:50 pm
The schools and most other systems are dropping their own ability to differentiate.  For whatever reason,  they want to go to a cold list of rules that are followed to the letter as opposed to following the spirit or intention of the law.  That's why they can seem to tell the difference between the sweet, harmless, cub scout, Zachary with his eating utensils,  and the kid sitting on the other side of the room with a creepy grin holding a butcher knife.  No one wants to take the risk of being a fair judge.
Perhaps it might have something to do with lawyer-phobia?

It's still a knife, the kid is old enough to realize that. It's just not safe to bring that stuff to school.
Uh huh. There are plenty of 'allowed' items that are more dangerous than butterknifes. I guess it's not safe to bring those items as well. To name a few:
writing instruments (pencils and pens are quite good at stabbing, and mathematically, it can be illustrated that when provided with the same force, they have a much higher chance at penetration than a butterknife, which is often as dull or duller, and is nice and rounded to boot)
backpacks (well, maybe not at his grade level, but with packs reaching into the 30lb range on occasion, it wouldn't be hard to pack a pack full of bricks or other hard and massive weights and use it for malicious intent)
hands (a work entitled 'how to kill someone with your bare hands' (sorry lol, I just had to add the portal reference, but seriously, it says it all))
food (food allergies? chocking? food-borne-illnesses?)
DHMO (See http://www.dhmo.org for more details)
school projects (I once built a catapult that could smash golfballs against a wall, damaging both the balls and the wall rather evidently. (the catapult even damaged itself: the arm chopped right though a 3 inch thick set of layered particle boards, so I rebuilt it with metal reinforcements) It was for a competition in which we would be lobbing tennis balls around campus)
plants and fungi (a number of them are poisonous yet rather innocuous looking)
other assorted allergy sources (self explanatory)
Anything heavy (see backpack reason)
vehicles (on a highschool campus at any rate...)
bacteria and viruses

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Hyger on October 17, 2009, 07:50:22 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Yes, but a knife is KNOWN to be dangerous. Its only purpose is dangerous. You don't need it for school, either. It's just as dumb as bringing a gun to school, even if you don't intent to use it.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 17, 2009, 09:38:33 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Yes, but a knife is KNOWN to be dangerous. Its only purpose is dangerous. You don't need it for school, either. It's just as dumb as bringing a gun to school, even if you don't intent to use it.

Um the boy was like 5 years old. I highly doubt he understood the full consaquinces of his actions. Lets think logicaly here. Children do dumb things. Thats mostly because they dont understand things like adults do.

I am not argueeing whether it is right or wrong. I am mainly attacking the issue of understanding.

Children dont fully understand Life or death. They have not experinced the world enough to know the things we know. Yes I agree they are not with out their wrongs. But It is not conducive to harshly punish them on matter we understand fully. And yet they understand so little of. I believe that each situation should be handled with Calm Understanding. Obviously he was intending to eat with it. Had the staff took the time to analyze the situation, rather then jumping to conclusions. He probably would have had the utincle comphiscated, his parents called, and more or less a write up or detention.

I say punishment should be proportional to the crime. You would'nt Kill a shop lifter, and you sure would'nt Arrest a simple J walker or speeder.

Lets reverce roles here.

For now on you must avoid the white tyles as not to die from lava :D. Brocoli Is completely illegal >:(. Desert MUST come befor Dinner (:! And anyone who does not obey the leader goes to jail x_x! And no matter what! The Cowboy is always the good guy 8). And all who do not obey Princess timpultan  (A puppy) Are Icky and bad! :(  Oh and girl are eeeeew! :D And boys Drull! >:(

This does'nt make much sence in the real world. What makes you think our rules make sence to them. thats why we must act and give punishment according to the crime. As to teach them right from wrong. That way our rules makes sence to them when they are grown up.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 18, 2009, 11:30:07 am
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: KitsuNinja on October 18, 2009, 05:51:48 pm
Since Colombine. (that's how you spell it, right?)

You should have seen it when people who didn't like me too well spread a rumor that I had a hit list (I didn't. I would never have.). You should have seen how close I was to being expelled.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 18, 2009, 06:04:24 pm
Since Colombine. (that's how you spell it, right?)

You should have seen it when people who didn't like me too well spread a rumor that I had a hit list (I didn't. I would never have.). You should have seen how close I was to being expelled.
And I presumed they got owned instead? (after all, that is... (fudge buckets! I forget the term, but it's like yelling 'fire!' in a theater or making up stories about planned terrorist attacks or whatnot), and it is a serious crime. Some girl got arrested for trying to get out of going on a cruise by saying there was going to be a terrorist attack on the ship, and she got seriously busted (afterall, it caused a whole lot of problems))
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 18, 2009, 06:28:25 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)

Hav'nt you heard of Colestral!!!   :D
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 18, 2009, 07:21:45 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)

Hav'nt you heard of Colestral!!!   :D
Who said you had to eat the butter?  :D
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 18, 2009, 09:24:32 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)

Hav'nt you heard of Colestral!!!   :D
Who said you had to eat the butter?  :D
Fabio would!  :D
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 18, 2009, 09:56:58 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Its only purpose is dangerous.
Since when was spreading butter dangerous? ;)

Hav'nt you heard of Colestral!!!   :D
Who said you had to eat the butter?  :D
Fabio would!  :D
:-[
Lol - you lost me on that one.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Kobuk on October 18, 2009, 10:24:22 pm
Please keep the thread on topic about the original subject being discussed, and also please stop quoting so many quotes. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Kay Alett on October 18, 2009, 10:27:28 pm
snipped

That's enough for now... -_- But pretty much ANYTHING can be dangerous if misused.
Yes, but a knife is KNOWN to be dangerous. Its only purpose is dangerous. You don't need it for school, either. It's just as dumb as bringing a gun to school, even if you don't intent to use it.
A knife's purpose is not to be dangerous. It's a tool, and any tool can be a weapon if misused. Knives are not weapons by creation, they are cutting instruments, they can be used as weapons but that is not their specific designation (with the exception of the sword which is really just a big knife).

A spoon isn't a weapon and you wouldn't really call it one if you looked at it, but if you use it as a weapon it becomes one, this is a simple fact of pretty much anything in the world, from pots and pans, blankets and towels to your bare hands and feet. If you can thiink of a way to injure someone with it, it's a weapon.

Zero-tolernce policies are only in place to keep lawsuits from being brought down upon the institute that put them in place.

This boy is not a danger to those around him, he is a victim of a system that its head in a very dark and uncomfortable position.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Onion on October 18, 2009, 11:24:30 pm
Please keep the thread on topic about the original subject being discussed, and also please stop quoting so many quotes. Thanks.


You miss read. You see Fabio fits into the this perfectly.

The boy was suspinded and harshly punished for using a utincle, wich was no more dangerouse then a spoon. But because of the teachers over reaction this simple tool. (Wich can be used to spread butter, was miss token).  And our reasoning is that the only real danger was the colestral from the butter he may have been spreading or prepairing to spread. And that although some people are afraid of this danger. Fabio however, can prove that their is no real danger. Thus aquiting the Child of all charges!

If the bread does not fit. you must aquit!
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Alsek on October 20, 2009, 12:42:37 pm
the columbine school shootings were a /very/ different matter.  Those kids intended to take as many lives as they could,  where they did it was irrelevant to them.  If you research this and look at who specifically they targeted,  it's even creepier.  They put time and planning into that attack.  Be glad their plan didn't go off as they had hoped.  Had their homemade explosives detonated, things would have been a lot worse that day.


Point is,  Columbine...  They intended to hurt someone...

This kid intended to use this utensil to... /EAT/ with...  Huge...  obvious difference between the two situations.  Treating this kid like he intended to hurt someone because he brought a butter knife to school is just ridiculous.  you can do more damage with a chair or a state flag than you can with any non lock-blade knife...  none the less the one he took.
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Choky on October 27, 2009, 09:05:23 pm
 Um,which two of yall voted "Yes!" on this poll?!? :o

That's not a knife! That's (http://www.splayd.com.au/) a knife!
Wait wait wait,that spork has a knife on the side of it too,um...no thanks,sounds painfull :P
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Avan on October 27, 2009, 09:41:30 pm
Wait wait wait,that spork has a knife on the side of it too,um...no thanks,sounds painfull :P
It's actually not a real knife persay, but it's a thickened edge used for cutting. Most real forks have this as well, though only on one edge (usually their left).
Title: Re: Cub Scout suspended for his utincel.
Post by: Magical_HATz on November 19, 2009, 02:32:56 am
Pffft, people are so tense and freak out over anything these days. Get a grip reality.