Author Topic: How much authority should schools have? (Read 4427 times)

Mr. Apple · « **on:** February 23, 2011, 08:22:49 pm »

So I'm at lunch today talking about what ever high school teens talk about, which is stuff. But then i hear the guy next to me tell how he got his FaceBook account confiscated by the disciplinary whatchamacallit office. He said that they didn't even tell him why.

THEY TOOK HIS FACEBOOK ! ! !

This struck me, quite understandably, as odd at first, but then began to make me angry (also quite understandably) The guy is not a terrorist. He is not a child pornographer, he's not bashing the PS3's security code into the ground with the rest of the hackers. Why should the school have the right to his FaceBook password? This is not the first time i've seen it though. The last two years at my old school had almost the exact same occurrences. I know that if i was asked to hand over my facebook, twitter, myspace, or even runescape account, i'd be deleting and changing passwords like crazy. Not because i have anything to hide, but because it's none of their business. searching through lockers, i can tollerate, number 1: because it's in the school building and number 2: because I usually don't keep anything in my locker aside from tissues and a couple books. I think the tyrannical school authority should stop at the doors where the parents take over. This is outrageous!

Avan · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:25:34 pm »

Wait... what the?
Why did they do that?

... What?

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:33:29 pm »

He didn't go into detail. but the fact that the school has something like his facebook account enrages me to the point of erupting in a firey fire of FIRE!

Yes, you did read right. They did indeed take his facebook.

Alsek · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:42:55 pm »

I've heard of this before too. It'd be one thing if parents had a lot of choice in the schools they sent their children to but the options are slowly but surely becoming more and more limited.

I know people throw sewing around a little too liberally at times, but this is outside of the school authority and the parents absolutely should be fighting this. Children under 18 are required by law to go to school. People under 18 should not have the privacy rights given to them by their parents stripped by law simply because they are under 18.

So you have a few options so long as your parents back you up. Make legitimate threats against the school if you have the time and money to follow through with a lawsuit, use plausible deniability with parental support.

"Runescape? What's runescace?"

Or use the TOS of most of those websites to your advantage... Again, with parental support.

"Sorry, i agreed to the terms of service that i wouldn't share or transfer the account to anyone. I can not give you that information."

If you don't have the support of your folks, it's not worth fighting and you wont get very far, but so long as they back you up (and they should) there's not a lot the school can actually do.... at least i don't think. If it goes too far you can always get the media involved.

Kobuk · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:45:51 pm »

The only reasons I can think of are if there was anything posted on FB about the school, It's teachers, Students, etc. that might have been hostile, Inflammatory, Rude, Disrespectful, Threatening, etc. Even IF there was any indication of something being hostile and seemingly threatening directed toward the school and the students there, then the Principal and/or local authorities have every right to check on what's going on and to take any appropriate measures..........which may include confiscation of the FB account. I'm not saying your friend may have done anything harmful or threatening. But in this day and age when you're hearing more stories on the news of kids and teens making threats against students and schools, then teachers and authorities are getting more suspicious and checking things out more cautiously.

Foxpup · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:51:37 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 23, 2011, 08:22:49 pm

Why should the school have the right to his FaceBook password?

Because he typed it into the school computer without checking for questionably legal keyloggers? That doesn't give the school the right, only the opportunity, but these days that's not really much of a distinction.

Kobuk · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:01:15 pm »

Quote from: Foxpup on February 23, 2011, 08:51:37 pm

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 23, 2011, 08:22:49 pm
Why should the school have the right to his FaceBook password?

Because he typed it into the school computer without checking for questionably legal keyloggers? That doesn't give the school the right, only the opportunity, but these days that's not really much of a distinction.

You're only assuming this. Nowhere in Mr. Apple's previous posts did he explicitly say the person was using the school computers to log onto FB.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:05:05 pm »

It's too bad that i don't have any more examples of this. The person wasn't too caring about it, so it largely wasn't a big deal to anyone other than me. I know though, that if they ever tried anything like this on me, then I would make it virtually impossible.

I never even thought about using the TOS. Technically, that gives him the right to withhold the information legally. I should have told him *facepalm*

I would have rather enjoyed putting the school in its place for once. I play goody two shoes too often. *another facepalm*

I would have told them my password and then immediately made it impossible to get into the account. A little bit of school trolling couldn't hurt. then again, i should be careful what i wish for

Runescape is an old MMO that i used to play BTW Alsek

Quote from: Kobuk on February 23, 2011, 09:01:15 pm

Quote from: Foxpup on February 23, 2011, 08:51:37 pm
Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 23, 2011, 08:22:49 pm
Why should the school have the right to his FaceBook password?

Because he typed it into the school computer without checking for questionably legal keyloggers? That doesn't give the school the right, only the opportunity, but these days that's not really much of a distinction.

You're only assuming this. Nowhere in Mr. Apple's previous posts did he explicitly say the person was using the school computers to log onto FB.

I also didn't say that i knew what he was doing with it at all. I only know that the school has it.

Foxpup · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:33:27 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 23, 2011, 09:05:05 pm

Quote from: Kobuk on February 23, 2011, 09:01:15 pm
Quote from: Foxpup on February 23, 2011, 08:51:37 pm
Because he typed it into the school computer without checking for questionably legal keyloggers? That doesn't give the school the right, only the opportunity, but these days that's not really much of a distinction.

You're only assuming this. Nowhere in Mr. Apple's previous posts did he explicitly say the person was using the school computers to log onto FB.

I also didn't say that i knew what he was doing with it at all. I only know that the school has it.

It's a fair assumption though, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that's what I'm pretty sure happened. Here's a list of other things that might have happened, and my reasons for thinking them unlikely:

1) He told them the password. Why on Earth would he do that? It's in violation on Facebook's TOS, and violating Facebook's TOS is a federal offense (or at least, Facebook thinks it is, judging by the way they're prosecuting people for "hacking" accounts).
2) Facebook told them the password. Does Facebook even store user's passwords anymore (instead of a one-way hash of same)? There's no technical reason to do so, and if they did it would be illegal for them to give out that information.
3) He logged on over the school network without HTTPS. Seriously? He never heard of Firesheep? Or did he think that only applies to wireless networks and that wired networks monitored by other people are magical?
4) His password was "password", or something equally stupid. Need I say more?

Actually, come to think of it, all of the above assume human intelligence not in evidence. Point conceded.

Avan · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:42:11 pm »

Well, the password could have been coerced out of him. (which of course brings up more questions)

Kobuk · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:48:24 pm »

Quote

It's a fair assumption though,

But it's still an ASSUMPTION.

Without more facts as to how everything happened, then all anybody is going on is just "circumstantial evidence".

Avan · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:01:52 pm »

Also, always check for keyloggers >.>

Yip · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:22:10 pm »

Quote from: Kobuk on February 23, 2011, 09:48:24 pm

Quote
It's a fair assumption though,

But it's still an ASSUMPTION. Without more facts as to how everything happened, then all anybody is going on is just "circumstantial evidence".

Foxpup did include a question mark. So it was a suggestion of what may be a likely reason, not a definite statement of what happened.

Anyways, I don't know what the circumstances are, but that strikes me as definitely wrong. It'd be like the school demanding to get to search the kid's room at home. It's not school property so they have no right to it.

Avan · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2011, 10:53:31 pm »

Yeah, that shouldn't be possible.

Alsek · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:09:21 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 23, 2011, 09:05:05 pm

Runescape is an old MMO that i used to play BTW Alsek

I know what it is. There's a reason i put that in quotes.

Again, Plausible deniability.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:20:07 pm »

Quote from: Avan on February 23, 2011, 10:01:52 pm

Also, always check for keyloggers >.>

I can check for keyloggers?

That's a nifty skill to have.
How do i done does do did dat?

Alsek · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:24:46 pm »

School computers ALWAYS have keylogging and monitoring software. No exceptions. They have to in order to ensure the connections aren't used illegally.

That doesn't give them the right to take over your personal accounts on social networking sites.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:27:23 pm »

Quote from: Alsek on February 23, 2011, 11:24:46 pm

School computers ALWAYS have keylogging and monitoring software. No exceptions. They have to in order to insure the connections aren't used illegally.

That doesn't give them the right to take over your personal accounts on social networking sites.

I hope they don't have anything against furrs

Thanks for deepening my paranoia of the world around me

Kobuk · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:34:51 pm »

Staff note: Just a small pre-emptive warning to please not discuss anything illegal as it may or may not pertain to keylogging, monitoring software, bypassing, etc., etc. Thanks.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2011, 11:38:40 pm »

Quote from: Kobuk on February 23, 2011, 11:34:51 pm

Staff note: Just a small pre-emptive warning to please not discuss anything illegal as it may or may not pertain to keylogging, monitoring software, bypassing, etc., etc. Thanks.

Gochya

I talked to my dad who said that we had to sign a contract, and that if in that contract, was the right to be able to do such a thing, then the school would be able to have me fork over any info that they wanted. Those pesky contracts

Avan · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2011, 12:17:22 am »

My schools had screen-cap software, but it was really lousy and never worked right. XD
And it was usually disabled after one teacher accidentally activated it for the entire main network of school computers and caused everyone to get locked out of the system.

considering I was friends with one of the district IT people, I had inside information on the status of everything. Not that I really did anything with that, and even found a massive security hole for the highschool.
About the only sites I ever went to that needed login there were here and the transcendence forums.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2011, 12:28:59 am »

It's always nice to have access to a back door even though you don't use it

Coming dangerously close to the guidelines though.

It seems that schools try to use computers to their advantage but they are almost universally ridden with fail. The servers are always going crazy at my school and they couldn't choose descent netbooks for the computer lab. So i'm always the one in first to get the thinkpad netbook while everybody else gets the crappy netbooks

Getting back to the topic. or near it anyway. UofD's system i have to say is better than my last school's system. Instead of BLOCKing everything, they let you go to sites like youtube and twitter, and more importantly, furtopia.

Foxpup · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2011, 05:59:59 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 24, 2011, 12:28:59 am

It seems that schools try to use computers to their advantage but they are almost universally ridden with fail. The servers are always going crazy at my school and they couldn't choose descent netbooks for the computer lab. So i'm always the one in first to get the thinkpad netbook while everybody else gets the crappy netbooks

Netbooks? Seriously? Can't they afford real computers?

Quote from: Mr. Apple on February 24, 2011, 12:28:59 am

Getting back to the topic. or near it anyway. UofD's system i have to say is better than my last school's system. Instead of BLOCKing everything, they let you go to sites like youtube and twitter, and more importantly, furtopia.

What better way to grab heaps of passwords? I hope you don't use the same password for everything. You may or may not be surprised to know that anyone connected to the school network can see what everyone else is doing, if they have packet-sniffing software. Keep your tin-foil hat on.

Mr. Apple · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2011, 06:32:39 pm »

Oh I have backup plans. But It's not a really big school, and I am probably the only one who could wrap my mind around anything more complicated than an OS reformat

Tin foil had neatly situated on head