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furry arts discussion => traditional and digital artwork => Topic started by: cause the rat on July 31, 2021, 07:07:27 pm

Title: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on July 31, 2021, 07:07:27 pm
The two things in working with color and color theory that's helped me the most at this point.

Color theory. Color is relevant only to the color around it.

Color mixing. "The color you mix on the pallet wont look right until you put it where it needs to be in the painting.

That second one hit me like an epiphany. And made that portion of color theory make perfect sense. I've been trying to mix the exact color. But it never worked. On the pallet it looked right. In the painting it was way off.

Kid gloves are off. Adolescents is over. This is my second real attempt at a landscape. Still ways to go. This doesn't read well in black and white. So if I want to make the sky the brightest part of the painting I'll have to make everything else darker.

https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1541.jpg (https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IMG_1541.jpg)

This is a 4x5 on printer paper.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on July 31, 2021, 11:06:05 pm
Second attempt. Knowing that color is relevant to the colors around it I started this second attempt with the sky. Went way to dark with it. Finding out if it looks right on the pallet it is to dark. Tried to mix color values by comparing them to the sky color. Without going black. Study ended up looking flat.

Will these eventually be furry? Yes. I have no intention of being a landscape painter. However I do intend on creating outdoor scenes. Whether they are with a landscape or town street background. The anthro characters will be the main focus of the art. So after I get this to a good spot I'll start working on cast shadows, color temperature and halation when dealing with structures. Also have to work on anatomy and animal faces showing emotion. And next month.....:)

Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 01, 2021, 02:39:08 pm
These is a truth about learning. It's harder to relearn than it is to learn. The real blood sweet and tears come when you learn to fix what you've been doing wrong. Isolating and fixing a single problem is no fun. I knew my brush handling was wonky and sloppy. So I spent hours fixing that problem. Now, instead of seriously working on areal perspective I'm goofing off. Guilty as charged. Areal perspective is three parts and the sky. Foreground light and dark. Mid ground light and dark. Back ground light and dark. Then light sky as the brights of all three. What I've done is failed miserably. Then wasted time by playing around with my failures. I wont say my next attempt will be any better. But I will no longer spend time goofing off.

With that said my latest attempt. Realized it was a complete mess so I reworked and overworked it to it's present state. I'm calling this on 'Buttock with Tree".

https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_1553.jpg (https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_1553.jpg)
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 01, 2021, 09:29:45 pm
Already hearing it. I can honestly understand why it takes people years to get good. Folks cant understand why I'm doing studies and not paintings. Or worst, they're reacting to my small studies as if they are supposed to be paintings. They look that bad because I'm that bad at understanding value relationships and how to create them. Value is more important than color. Value creates shapes and depth in any form of art. Understanding how this works isn't going to magically happen after years of painting. It happens when you decide to work on it.

My forth value study is my best attempt so far. It's not finished. I still have three colors to add. The highlight colors for the foreground, mid ground and back. There are two glaring mistakes in this attempt. Both the mid and background colors have the same value. Both the back and mid darks have the same value. It's easier to see when it's in black and white. Not going to fix these. That will happen in the next study.
https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/hhfgfhdghfg.jpg (https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/hhfgfhdghfg.jpg)
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 03, 2021, 04:09:13 am
No pic this time. Just some info. I'll still be using paper to paint studies on. But not printer paper. When I mix a color on my pallet it looked turquoise. When I swiped in the masking tape holding the paper to the board it looked turquoise. When I when I swiped in on the board it looked turquoise. When I swiped it on the printer paper it looked crayola green. I grabbed a small piece of brown packing paper. Put a swipe on it. It looked turquoise. So I cut up a good hand full of 10x12 sheets of this stuff. That'll give me six ruffly 4x5 studies per sheet.

The absolute best place on line to find photos and videos for nude figure studies in Croquis Cafe. They use to be free. But now charge a $36 a year membership fee. As soon as I get comfortable with color values I'll be getting a membership and going into figure painting. Clothing can be faked. Correct proportions can't. It's either right or it looks bad. I'll also be making a huge database of a wide selection of animal heads. Because all these bodies need heads.

This is going to be a long journey. it may be a bit before I have something worth sharing. Decided it would probably be better to wait till i have some real progress before posting a pic again. I'm going through these tubes of water soluble oils like water. Not replacing them. From what i hear from other's who use oils is they don't handle like regular oil paints. It's regular oils for me! along with the toxin free cleaners and mediums I'm using now.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 04, 2021, 02:28:34 pm

This is taken from a post on an oil painting facebook page. This is actual advice giving to people.

I'll take this number by number.

#1 Don't compare your work to others. Compare the new work with the old.

If you have an art style you like try to make a copy of it by hand. This is called 'master studies'. It improves your understanding of how it was done. This has been taught in high end art schools for hundreds of years. Comparing your old work with your new. If your not actively trying to get better it should look about the same.

#2 You don't have to go to an art school. But doing so will get your further, faster.

The only bit of advice on this list that makes any sense. Unfortunately the first sentence is about as far as most people get. I would love to have the time to go to an art school.

#3 Someone, somewhere will love what you do. And pay for it. Find them.

Furry fandom? This should not be an excuse to not get better. Because furry fandom you should get better.

#4 Really good work takes a really long time. Be patient with yourself.

This is the very reason people spend years putting out crap. Or worst, never get better. NO, don't work on what your bad at. Keep doing it over and over again. There's no reason to be hard on yourself.

5 Create every single day. Even if it's all garbage. You can't improve on a blank canvas."

 Just have fun everyday.

This has only been up for two hours. It already has 127 likes and 33 posts praising it like it's cannon. Folks this is horrible advice. I"m not going to reply to this on that page. All that would happen is a lot angry responses to my post. Because that bad advice is what's been given for years.

Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 04, 2021, 02:52:33 pm
Sorry, double post. But that really needed to be a stand alone statement.

As people we like contrast. It's the first thing that we notice in a good piece of art. That's how we see things in real life. We create contrast to better focus on what we are looking at. This is my hurdle. This is why I'm struggling with doing value studies. I'm training myself to see contrast as a whole. Not just what I happen to be looking at.  If a value study was nothing more than painting blue, adding white to it and paint that color. Then add more white and paint that color. I"m DONE! Value included every color needed in that part of the art work. Not just blue and green. This is just a starting point. And how those values compare to the values in the rest of the painting. Understanding value is understanding how colors come together to make a good piece of work. And man do I need more work :) Hopefully have a pic to post soon.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: Jade Sinapu on August 04, 2021, 03:52:08 pm
I agree Cause,
I found a few GOOD examples of furry art by well known people and STUDIED that, and only that, and discarded the junk examples.
I practiced and drew what I could.  Then I improved.  I ended up making a copy of the original, but... seriously... it looked good.  And if you saw the 10's of previous images, you can see the progression. So I say study good art, improve on what you are bad at, and have fun!
I think your advice is sound
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 05, 2021, 02:29:41 am
Thanks Jade. Glad to hear you took the time and effort to get better. Now you know you can get better faster just by breaking your drawing down and only working on the problem area.  Then go back and do a real drawing. it wont take 10's to get better.

I would like to add to my response to #1. Actually started thinking about this at work.

 Always compare your work with where you want to be. Never compare what you do today with what you did yesterday. The idea is to get better by comparison. Where you where yesterday no longer matters. Progression is never achieved by looking behind you. Looking behind you may reinforce bad habits.

That list of horrors doesn't just come from folks on line. It comes from teachers and people with 'how to do art' youtube channels.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 09, 2021, 12:23:05 am
Jade, In my last thread you asked about color shift in oils paints. Came across a video on Titanium White. Apparently titanium will yellow if it's not exposed to natural light. However if it does yellow all you have to do is expose it to a window without direct sun light. In a few hours it turns back white. It's like the blue sky will bleach it.

Nothing yet to show. Just a gab thread. I've had two value studies that almost worked!!!  :) After doing this for a bit its becoming easier to see value ( the shade of the color ) instead of just the color. Even better is I'm to the point where when the value is wrong I see it right away. Judging one color to the next has gotten me a lot farther than I was. However I think I'm hitting a wall. So I'll continue doing value studies. Because just how much fun could anyone possibly have by painting seven stripes of color by value? Ya, that's about the jest of it. Like the brush control exercises I continue to do. Boring, tedious and mind numbing. Am I getting better because of it. Yes. Anyway, back to the wall. Going to do partial painting studies. Try to copy very small sections of actual paintings. Choosing these small sections for their value and contrast. then judging my copy both by how well it matches what I'm looking at. And how well the color values are working with each other. Even if the colors are off. Value, not color, is what makes a painting.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 14, 2021, 03:20:40 pm
I know, still noting to show isn't exactly what everyone wants to see. Just another gab post.

Did a few things this week. First a few partial painting studies. You know your going tin the wrong direction when you pay more attention at what your doing instead of what your trying to copy. :) Did learn two important things. Both the halation effect and blurred shadows have to be done subtle or they start looking like lines around objects. Disappearing edges is still something I'll need to work on. And learned this by trial and error. Because the sky in a landscape is the main source of light it is also used as the light effect color. This has made doing a value study with landscapes to easy. If i want something lighter that looks like it belongs in the painting all I have to do is add the sky color to it. Going to switch gears and start a new set of value studies. I'll be mixing a color. Then mix a second color and try to match the value to the first. The idea is to be able to look at both colors in black and white and have them appear as one shade. Why? Because value is everything in art.

Also bit the bullet and got a hand full of regular oil paints. I've read and heard over and over again how water soluble oils handle differently. How there is a learning curve if you switch from regular oils to WSO. Ya, ya, ya, over and over. So? Huge difference? Yep, they were right. Will this help me? Nope. In reality no it wont. Still need to learn how to use them. There is a real difference in the way these two oil paints handle. Learning to push and pull things around with paint will be a lot easier.

And bit another bullet. Joined 'Croquis Cafe'. Been using what I can find on line. 99% of them fit, chiselled and perfect shape. What the cafe offers is real people. All adult ages and shapes.  Going to go full into figure drawings. Still need to find a good way to put animal heads and tails on these bodies. Thinking of using figurines. I'll be able set them up to have the same lighting angle as the body. Be scouring yard sales and resale shops.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 15, 2021, 04:33:18 am
Trying a more complex value study. In four colors. Painted with a single size one filbert. There's plenty wrong with this. Values are a lot harder to keep right when your dealing with a more complex scene. Glad i did all the value studies before this one. It could have looked a lot worst. :) The most glaring mistake is the hill side in the back needed to be a slightly lighter shade. There's no need for me to fix this. Do it and get to the next one. Brush work is still wonky too. Getting better.

https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_1632.jpg (https://s29608.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/IMG_1632.jpg)

Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 15, 2021, 04:47:31 pm
Starting my second attempt at this kind of value study. Yes. The cut to size piece of paper is stuck right to the undried first study. Choosing to do a composition slightly harder than the first.

And now for some reasoning. Hoping to make better artists in the fandom.
 I'm not keeping any of this stuff. These are studies. You would never ask someone learning a musical instrument to play like they did two months ago. OK, I realize that didn't make much sense. Stick with me, it will.  Just as you learn to do things right you also learn to make mistakes. It's inevitable. It's a part of learning. Looking back enforces those mistakes. Everyone is narcissistic. We all look for things we do right. And we all can get into the habit of justifying the things we do wrong. Always compare where you are to where you want to be. Piano players always listen to players better than they are. Guitar players always listen to people who play better than they do. That's why it only takes a few years to get good at playing a musical instrument. And ten years to get good at art. Let's break this down even farther. Yes I could have taken the time to fix the mistakes in my first study. Let me tell you why that is a horrible idea. I'll use what I see on line. Paint, fiddle, fiddle fiddle fiddle and then paint. Then fiddle and fiddle and fiddle. The best excuse I've heard. "You always have to adjust your values to the values you add to your painting." Let's slap the cold hard filter of reality over that statement. "Don't worry about putting down the right values in the first place. You can always spend hours of your life correcting your mistakes." Why would anyone fall for this? If I'm playing the guitar in front of an audience and make a mistake that mistake is over with. I can't stop playing and say, " I'm going to play that part over until I get it right. And your are all going to listen to me doing it." Everyone from Da Vinci to Van Gogh. One brush stroke and done. Fix the small stuff. Because it happens to everyone. Don't waste your time learning to fix your mistakes. Learn not to do them.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/236872358_1171366773374068_4339783569629650291_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=iOw7vvBAW4gAX_6Jqym&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=c37c83ef1574379022296c1fc1313089&oe=61401B48 (https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/236872358_1171366773374068_4339783569629650291_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=iOw7vvBAW4gAX_6Jqym&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=c37c83ef1574379022296c1fc1313089&oe=61401B48)
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 15, 2021, 09:27:19 pm
Because I had to. There are still mistakes. Like what happened to the road?? Chimney is two light and shadows in the midground are two dark. And wonky perspectives.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/235639754_1171499966694082_647655283138082687_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=y0c5ecb207oAX_g_i_9&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e39ddba04970a344e90194e85a62bf0f&oe=6140A24E (https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/235639754_1171499966694082_647655283138082687_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=y0c5ecb207oAX_g_i_9&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e39ddba04970a344e90194e85a62bf0f&oe=6140A24E)

edited to get a closer looking pic.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 22, 2021, 06:35:27 pm
With all that going on I'm starting up figure drawing. Focusing on the torso, legs and hands. Breaking it down to focus more on the size comparisons. I know there's a thousand different ways to approach figure drawing. From things that actually work to the wacky. Don't do the head size thing. in the end all your figures will end up looking the same size. Right now I'm using the same drawing technique I did from the start. Drawing what i see by judging angles and size from what's already on the paper. So I don't have a bunch of circles, triangles, squares and squiggly lines to erase. No this is not the easiest way of doing this. Will have to put a disclaimer here. Yes. I can already draw. If your just starting out use the circles, squares and squiggly lines. Treat these like the paper you learned to do your ABC's on. The dotted line between two wide lines. You never went back to using that. Once you get the basic idea of the actual size and angles in a figure never go back to use those crutches again.

Some tips I've learned that's helped me. Most common mistakes. Head's to big. Hands way to small. Legs two short.

Here's an exorcise. Doesn't matter what your working on. Looking at a reference pic and draw it the best you can. Choose one thing that's wrong. Doesn't matter how many mistakes were made. Just choose one.  Delete or cover up your first attempt. Draw it again focusing on correcting that one mistake. Keep dong this. Draw, compare, delete. Until that one mistake is fixed. Now choose the next thing that needs working. Do the very same thing again. Draw, compare, delete. Always compare your drawing to where you want to be. What you drew earlier does not matter. You will get better faster by always looking ahead. We are all nostalgic. If you want to keep your first attempt then do so. But only look back once you are where you wan to be. Because we are also complacent and easily justify ourselves.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 25, 2021, 04:55:05 am
Sorry. Nothing to show again. This is a following what I preach thread. Was getting into my next landscape value study and stopped. Tossed my already mixed paints and walked away from it. I found myself doing the same mistake over again. They are not really mistakes. Just not the type of art I want to create. I know that needs some clarification. So here we go. In modern 'alla prima' style art they follow the rules of angles and subsequent values to the T.  We are talking abstract or impressionism paining. I don't have any desire to paint that way. The laws of subsequent values state the sky is the brightest plane of the painting. This works for that style of art. In the art and style I want to mimic the sun is the brightest thing and what ever it's shining on is brighter than the sky. Just as it is in real life.  Both the intensity of shadows and lights do follow the laws. Just add the sun to the equation. So from this point on I'm doing two things. Continuing my figure drawing studies. And now I'll be making 5x6 study copies of the painting style I like. To see what I'm looking at when I paint do a search for 'Hudson river school of art paintings". Weird right. I don't want to be a landscape painter. Yet that's were were I put my starting point. Until I get more confident in my skills in copying the human body I have to start somewhere. Might as well be on the backgrounds.  I'm interested in creating anthro characters as the main focal point. With landscape and buildings nothing more than eye candy behind them.
Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on August 28, 2021, 10:06:43 pm
Hoping to inspire you to get better wile I'm getting better. Cutting through the nonsense and the unnecessary.
Yep, another nothing to show thread. This is more about art and why art purists are morons. I'll keep this one on learning to draw. Because without this skill it's kinda hard to go on. Well, maybe not. Every hear of Johannes Vermeer? Everyone uses his painting "Girl with the pearl Earring" as a tool to prove the golden ratio is a thing. He used a device called the Camera Lucida. Wile looking threw this device he could trace out the outline and details of what he was looking at on the canvas. Then paint it. His art hangs in museums. There is another artist who used actual photos and painted over them. Don't know or remember his name. But his paintings hang in museums as well. Tracing. The good, bad and ugly.

The good for both digital and traditional artists. It a great tool to use to learn about how color interacts. The color of light and shadow. Learning color harmony, value and all the rest of what color theory has to offer. Get right into it without using something wonky to work with. Using a device like the camera lucida allows you to set up your composition. Draw it out and begin working. Yes. There is a digital version of this tool.

The bad for both digital and traditional artists. Don't have to talk about stolen art. Just don't do it. Without having something to trace your out of luck. Even using the camera lucida you would still need something to trace out to have something to draw.

The ugly truth about tracing. You will never learn to draw on your own. Without this skill you will limited what you can create.

So is tracing art? Yes. Or there would not be paintings of tracing hanging in museums. Art purists are morons.

Traditional art techniques for both digital and conventional artists.

Drawing out your composition. If your studying art like me you have heard this before. " In order to draw correctly you need to learn to draw vertically. With your arm out in front of you and holding the tool at an angle." OK folks. This is not only a waste of time but it's not even historically correct. If you can already draw with a pencil on paper you have all the drawing skill you need. This re learning to draw is a total waste of time. And in the end will do nothing for you. Ever hear of Leonardo De vinci? There is a long list of names I could add here as well. The idea for the painting was drawn out first on paper. By holding a device just like you and I hold a pencil. Then transferred to the painting surface. There were two transfer method. Both would take to long to explain. So here's a modern video with all you need to know. Step three on this video is one of the exact methods used by historical painters. Only they used a pointed stylist. Not a pencil to transfer the drawing. So they wouldn't obscure the original drawing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJU0IEaDSRc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJU0IEaDSRc)

I honest believe that this total waste of time was developed to keep people in art schools longer. Drawing loosely translates to. "We are going to teach you to use as many unnecessary muscles as possible. Making this  technique as hard to learn as humanly possible. And change the word sloppy into loosely so you feel better about it." Don't waste your time. 

Title: Re: A Rat's journey in oil painting.
Post by: cause the rat on September 14, 2021, 02:50:39 pm
Thought it would be better to post proof of old art techniques. Ya, I know "Great, Another post with no art. What are you thinking???" Showing my bad art isn't going to inspire anyone. However posting to prove what I said is the truth will. The link below is a video on the documented history of the use of drawing devices. The Camera Obscura predates the Camera Lucita. So in truth I was wrong about what tracing device Vermeer used. However it's still tracing. And his art is still hanging in museums. It's a bit long winded. He uses historical documents to prove a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOGoMol5m4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvOGoMol5m4)

Please note I'm not promoting tracing only. Learning to draw will allow you to be more creative and expand your art. Also please keep in mind you will not learn to draw by tracing.

The vid link below is from the same person. He demonstrates from historical documentation the act of tracing a drawing onto a paint substrate. Just like the link i used but whit historical tools used bu the same people who's paintings are hanging in museums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPDACNcHkt8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPDACNcHkt8)