Florida minister plans to burn Koran.

[Kobuk]

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Now, the main story...........V
Sample YT vids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDlPd2gVTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05t17RNjGYA

 

10:42pm UK, Wednesday September 08, 2010
Adam Arnold, Sky News Online

A US clergyman is refusing to back down over plans to burn copies of the Koran despite international condemnation, including from the UN chief and Tony Blair.

Pastor Terry Jones, who leads a small Florida church, insisted he would stage "International Burn-a-Koran Day" on Saturday September 11, despite receiving more than 100 death threats.

The act is timed to coincide with the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks on the US in 2001.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon has said he was "deeply disturbed" by the plans to burn copies of the Islamic holy book, which Muslims believe should be treated with the utmost respect.

And former prime minister Mr Blair added his voice to those who are urging Pastor Jones to call off his protest.

Others against the plan include the White House, the Vatican, the commander of international forces in Afghanistan General David Petraeus and film star Angelina Jolie.

The pastor's supporters have been mailing copies of the book to put on the bonfire at his Dove World Outreach Centre in Gainsville.

Explaining his plan, Mr Jones said: "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behaviour."

He added: "As you can imagine we have received very much pressure in the direction of cancelling the event.

"At this time we have no intention of cancelling. We are not convinced that backing down is the right thing. So on September 11 we shall continue with our planned event."

A spokesman for the Taliban said it "strongly condemn plans by a Florida church to burn the Koran, it shows they are against Islam and that Western countries will pay for it".

And in a statement, Mr Blair - who founded his Faith Foundation after leaving office to promote understanding between the world's religions - said: "I deplore the act of burning the Koran.

"It is disrespectful, wrong and will be widely condemned by people of all faiths and none. In no way does this represent the view of any sensible person in the West or any other part of the world."

The former PM added: "Those who wish to cause religious conflict are small in number but often manage to dominate the headlines.

"You do not have to be a Muslim to share a sense of deep concern at such a disrespectful way to treat the Holy Book of Islam.

"Rather than burn the Koran, I would encourage people to read it."

[Shim]

Explaining his plan, Mr Jones said: "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

All I really have to say, is that the first question that went through my mind when I read this, was "What sort of message do you think you're going to convey here? And who are 'us', that support this?"

[Kobuk]

While it's true that the US Constitution grants the right of Freedom of Religion to every American, How far should that Right go when what Terry Jones is planning could have severe and far reaching implications/consequences in regards to relations between the US and Middle Eastern countries?

If it were me, I'd do whatever I could to stop that book burning, even if it meant arresting the guy or whatever else I could think of to stop him. I'm surprised the White House, Florida authorities, etc. haven't done more to stop him.

[Alsek]

If it were me, I'd do whatever I could to stop that book burning, even if it meant arresting the guy or whatever else I could think of to stop him. I'm surprised the White House, Florida authorities, etc. haven't done more to stop him.

What are you going to do...  Send the national guard to his front door and confiscate the Qur'ans?

The books are his property.  He has a right to do whatever he wants with them.  The same way American flags and Bibles have been burned at protests here and all around the world.  You can't arrest an American citizen for doing that.    Neither the federal government nor the local government have any right to stop him.  The violent action of anyone anywhere should be never be considered aceptable response to the legal actions of a free American citizen on United states soil.

Why are our troops out there policing to be endangered in the first place?


That being said,  my personal opinion on this matter is as follows:

I don't think it accomplishes anything on any front.  I think that it can be used as propaganda by extremists, I think it's even counter productive to his own cause.  I think it's asinine,  shortsighted, absurd, and resembling the actions of notorious dictatorships.

[Acton]

When Islam has done to Chistian home and Churches it hard for me to be outraged, still I see this a futile gesture. It shows a church that forgot its first mission is  to preach the gospel.
The Church has every right under the constitution for freedom of expression. I rather have liberty and put up with Fred Phelps and Terry Jones.

[Cimarron]

I voted yes... but I think the act is horrible, and really pointless.  The only reason I voted yes is because this is America, and it is a free country, and freedom has its price.  This time its a misguided preacher doing something stupid... but if we told him he couldnt, i think we would be losing a bit of freedom.  If somehow he was arrested and jailed, would this really be any different than a militant theocracy? Again, Im not condoning burning anything that would offend anyone, but its all part of being free.

[Yip]

Since you worded the question "Should the minister have the right to burn the book?" I would say yes, absolutely, assuming these books are either his property or he has permission from their owner to destroy them. And it's not like he'd be eliminating the Quran from existence or even coming close to it. So yes, he does have the right.

But should he exercise that right and actual burn the books? That's a completely different question. Then I would say no, as I don't see how anything positive can come from it. It seems to me that those this would be meant to send a message to are not ones likely take it well. It's not it would make them act more reasonable. If anything it'd have the opposite effect.

[Kaloth]

Honestly I am against the burning of any book regardless of genre or how important or famous it is. The effort that goes into writing down the stories to form a book makes that book precious to at least one person. If it weren't then it should deserve to be published. I think burning a book spits in the face of everyone who holds that book special.

(I am referring to any book and any burning, my ideals still hold here but I was not referencing anything in particular)

[Itico]

As usual, someone has a response as good or better then I would have.  Ditto Vararam.

I just wanted to add that I heard about this while listening to a class in the room where my next class was going to be.  The interview with this guy was being played for the class.  I was seriously appalled by this person's ignorance and narrow mindedness.

The problem with extremists is that they get in the way of civil dialogue.  His actions will not only irritate people here but abroad, and will only cause more problems.

Yes, he has the right to burn whatever he owns, but just because he has the right, that doesn't mean it is a good idea.

Extremist get people killed.

[Foxpup]

Yes. He has the right to do whatever he wants to his own property. That doesn't necessarily make it a wise thing to do. But there's a more fundamental problem: before you can burn a book, you have to buy it (most bookstores have a strict "you burnt it, you bought it" policy). If everyone is buying copies of the Qur'an to burn them, where's all the money going? To Muslim book publishers, of course. By burning the Qur'an, they're actually supporting the Muslim community. Am I the only one who sees the irony?

[Drake Blackpaw]

As others have said, do he have the right?  Yes!  If it's his property, he can do what he wants with it.  Is it a stupid, asinine thing to do?  Of course it is!

Just another example of stupidity in a world full of them.

[Serra Belvoule]

This strikes me with an unsavory high resemblance of what the author Ray Bradbury wrote about in his book Fahrenheit 451. Awesome book, if you ask my opinion.
Book burning is an aggression on many levels, in my opinion. It's an attack to the author of the book, for starters, as to say their words portray something so vile that is has to be "killed with fire", pun intended.
And even worse, something as culturally important as the Koran, or any other holy book for that matter is a dire attack towards a community's belief system. I can see nothing but an ugly political (and maybe even physical? ) confrontation here.
Of course, they're entitled to do with his property whatever they please... BUT I think the publishing of said acts do portray an attack directed to the Muslim community, and THAT is what this is about. It's not about he damaging his own property (which he is entirely free to do) but the social repercussions it has.
It's not just the act and the legal loopholes, I think we have to see this beyond it and what the act represents.
It's sad to see that we've gone such lengths since the dark ages and some things haven't changed one bit.

[Kobuk]

Nearly everybody so far is saying Terry Jones has the right to burn the books. But at what price? What he's doing is going to put our troops over in Afghanistan and any other Arabic countries at serious risk. Actually, they'll be at far greater risk than at any other time that they've been in those countries. Do we really need to see more American blood spilled for this idiot minister?!  I watched both YT vid links that I provided and I couldn't stomach that guy. He makes me mad and sick.  And what about the Muslims that live peacefully here in America? How do you think they'll react? What would happen if some of them suddenly went extremeist and started suicide bombings and other horrendous acts here in the US as retaliation for what Terry Jones did? Not a pretty picture I would think. 

[Shim]

Nearly everybody so far is saying Terry Jones has the right to burn the books. But at what price? What he's doing is going to put our troops over in Afghanistan and any other Arabic countries at serious risk.

I feel this is scenario is sort of similar to those who are in favor of building a Mosque at Ground Zero.

Is it legal? Should we say no? No, we shouldn't, because this is America, and as everybody said before, we live in a country where freedom is a right, and what not..Regardless, it doesn't stop it from being one of the worst ideas ever.

[Itico]

As I have just returned from the basement, where I have the magnifier that allows me to read printed material, I wave my copy of Engines of Democracy by Alan Rosenthal.  While this is a book required for one of my courses, the first chapter alone is relevant.  In part, the chapter talks about why people are dissatisfied with our government and legislators in specific.  However, many of the reasons are applicable here.

Firstly, the average citizen-that is none of us here, right?-holds that their beliefs are right and that they are the only right beliefs to have.  This is one reason that this individual would not even consider listening to the one person in the county he most respected.

Secondly, jumping a few pages further in the chapter, we read about how the average citizen has little understanding of what goes on, outside of their limited community of like-minded individuals.  They have a hard time believing that others hold different, even opposing views, because they are not required to interact with them on a regular basis.  For these people, problems are cut and dry, black and white, or pick your favorite flavor of analogy.  This is so far removed from reality that these people can not be rationalized with, negotiated with or otherwise persuaded.  The world is a much more complicated and messy place, politically and socially, and people like this are not capable of understanding how complex an issue like this really is.

It is sad that some people have to be so ignorant and yet so blatant about their ignorance that they put the rest of us in danger.

The only thing I can say is, I hope that he watches the news and has a publicly listed address and phone number so that he can be included in further debate.  I think that he's walked out onto a rather steep slope and there are people who believe that they have the moral high ground may start throwing rocks.

As I say, and probably annoy Cicero with, if you stick your neck out, there will be someone waiting to cut your head off for you.

Peace.

[Yip]

Nearly everybody so far is saying Terry Jones has the right to burn the books. But at what price? What he's doing is going to put our troops over in Afghanistan and any other Arabic countries at serious risk.

This guy isn't directly what would be putting the troops at risk. The problem is hypersensitive religiosity. People that get so offended that someone did something disrespectful towards their religion that they'd kill over it. That's the problem, that's the thing you should be upset over.

And what about the Muslims that live peacefully here in America? How do you think they'll react? What would happen if some of them suddenly went extremeist and started suicide bombings and other horrendous acts here in the US as retaliation for what Terry Jones did? Not a pretty picture I would think.  

I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but it almost sounds like you are saying that they might "suddenly go extremist" because they are Muslims. I'm hope I'm just reading this wrong as it sounds horribly discriminatory.

[Shabbernigdo]

Imo. let em burn it. Its nothing more then paper with text on it.

[Alsek]

I'm hope I'm just reading this wrong as it sounds horribly racist.

Uhm,   not trying to critique word choice,  but Islam is not a race.   o.o

But your point remains.

[Yip]

I'm hope I'm just reading this wrong as it sounds horribly racist.

Uhm,   not trying to critique word choice,  but Islam is not a race.   o.o
But your point remains.

Yes, my mistake.

Edit: Fixed

[Mooshi]

Damn double post and jumbled formating..ugh. Deleteeeee... Later furs.

[Narei Mooncatt]

It seems we're all pretty much in agreement. He's got the right, but that doesn't make it morally right. Here's some more food for thought, which Kobuk touched on a bit. It doesn't matter if Mr. Jones is only trying to protest the Islamic Extremists. By burning the Qur'an, he's insulting the peaceful Muslims as well. I'm not trying to make excuses and I wish the Muslim community would speak out against their extremists too, but they haven't made any attempt at doing so. On one end of the spectrum, people have suggested the peaceful Muslim community is afraid of retaliation from groups like the Taliban. On the other end, some people just think all Muslims wish to move us all back to the stone age. I'm guessing Mr. Jones thinks the latter and there isn't much to be done if he goes through with his plan. I also doubt it will put our troops in any more danger. The extremists only have one thing on their mind about us, so much so that they don't even really need any propaganda to help them along.

If it were me, I'd do whatever I could to stop that book burning, even if it meant arresting the guy or whatever else I could think of to stop him. I'm surprised the White House, Florida authorities, etc. haven't done more to stop him.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Hear about the guy that immersed a cucifix in his own urine and called it art? Angered just about everyone, but still won an award and cash for it at a federal government sponsored contest. Remember, this is the USA. You can say and do whatever you want about Christians (and perhaps southerners), but don't you dare say the slightest non-pc thing about anything else. [/sarcasm]

[Mooshi]

Not really planning on staying. Yes, I lurk and no, I haven't found what I'm searching for yet. Saw this topic and there was no way I could miss the opportunity to comment on this story. (aaaand if anyone cares, I have an lj now if you feel like stalking meh. 16 replies in the bye thread, wow. Love you guys too. (mooshimorph.livejournal.com) with that said.. 

When you look at it from a logical standpoint, it's a really foolish and plain wreckless idea that will only have a really bad backlash. When you look at it from his perspective, it makes all the sense in the world.  Look at what we become. Both US (as you you and me + our nation) and abroad in the European countries. We became pansies, cowards, wimps!

Face it, there is no international backbone anymore. We all live in fear over extremist. Which we OUTNUMBER. But no, we're too scared to do anything and are a huge embarassment to all the men and women before us fought so hard for! I mean damn, a little thing as a CARTOON ends up in murder!

 There will only be anger sparked from this, but sometimes enough is enough. As batty as hardcore Christians and Catholics ect. can be, they never take someones life if someone drew a picture of Jesus. And yet these extremist can't handle their own medicine. I dunno what else to say. Reading the Quar'an is something I doubt those involved in radical Islam does. Because if they did, they would be peaceful like they claim.

I feel sorry for the decent Muslims out there because if things blow up further - how many more billions will the worlds governments blow? How many more innocent lives lost before you say enough?

 This thing raging on for nearly a decade isn't a war against terror. It's a battle of 2 different ideals that will never have a victor! 

Outside of being cold hearted and saying "bomb them all", the west should leave the middle east alone and the middle east should stop using tech created by the "infidels" and get on with their lives. 

There is no winner here either way. Risk world war 3 or continue living in fear like a bunch of cockroaches when the lights get flicked on...we should leave each other alone. That's all I got to say. 

Take care, fuzzbutts. 

- Mooshi

[Old Rabbit]

He has the right to burn the books if he owns them, but he should consider the safety
of americans abroad. After all this will only give extremists a excuse to attack americans.

The tragedy is religious extremism no matter what the faith is..  If someone talks against
a religion or desecrates a object of religious importance they should be prayed for not
hated.





   

[Acton]

It doesn't matter what we do the jihadist will size on the filmiest excuse to gin up opposition. As long there a majority in Islam that believe jihad as a way to impose and Islamic culture, they will be a threat to Americans overseas. If the government stopped the burning, it will have no difference to the the jihad.

[Kaloth]

This strikes me with an unsavory high resemblance of what the author Ray Bradbury wrote about in his book Fahrenheit 911. Awesome book, if you ask my opinion.
Book burning is an aggression on many levels, in my opinion. It's an attack to the author of the book, for starters, as to say their words portray something so vile that is has to be "killed with fire", pun intended.
And even worse, something as culturally important as the Koran, or any other holy book for that matter is a dire attack towards a community's belief system. I can see nothing but an ugly political (and maybe even physical? ) confrontation here.
Of course, they're entitled to do with his property whatever they please... BUT I think the publishing of said acts do portray an attack directed to the Muslim community, and THAT is what this is about. It's not about he damaging his own property (which he is entirely free to do) but the social repercussions it has.
It's not just the act and the legal loopholes, I think we have to see this beyond it and what the act represents.
It's sad to see that we've gone such lengths since the dark ages and some things haven't changed one bit.

Serra thank you for saying what I am not elegant enough to phrase, and bonus points for referencing one of my favorite books.