Poll

Should the minister have the right to burn the book?

Yes.
10 (58.8%)
No.
5 (29.4%)
Not sure.
1 (5.9%)
Other option? Please specify.
1 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.  (Read 5945 times)

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Offline Arbutus

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2010, 07:05:40 pm »
Well, this is good, at least:

Quote
The pastor of a small US church who planned to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of 9/11 has cancelled his protest.

Terry Jones said he was calling off the event after the group behind a planned Islamic centre near Ground Zero in New York agreed to relocate it.

(...)

But the organisers of the New York centre said no agreement had been reached with Mr Jones.

AFP news agency quoted Daisy Khan, wife of the imam behind the project, as saying: "We don't know anything about it".

Hah, I like the part where he blatantly lied about his reasons to save face. (Edit: Actually, "lied" is too harsh... it seems he's actually going to meet with the people behind the mosque at some point, so perhaps in his addled mind that means they "agreed to relocate it.") I feel like, just perhaps, the fact that the president, the secretary of state, the commander of the U.S. military, numerous current and former world leaders, and the Pope all told him this was insanity might have played a larger role. (Either that or behind-the-scenes CIA maneuvering... who can know, really?) But if that's what it took for him to be able to rationalize backing down, then I'll take it.

My vote would have been the same as everyone else's: he has the right to burn the books if he wants. That's freedom of speech, and that principle is at the core of the American way of life. But it would be a terrible idea - not just terrible, but DANGEROUS. Remember when the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published those cartoons of Muhammad in 2005? The fundamentalist backlash against that was sheer insanity. Protests all over the world. Three Danish embassies were torched. The guy who drew the cartoons is STILL under 24-hour guard and has had numerous attempts on his life.

Nonetheless: if this fool had gone ahead with his plans, we would have no right to stop him. Like the Danes, we can't censor what Americans decide to say and do in America just because we're scared of what the Muslim world would think. That would be abandoning one of our central founding principles - freedom of speech - out of fear.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 07:29:18 pm by Arbutus »

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2010, 07:56:07 pm »
Nevermind, didn't realize we're already on the second page and someone else said the burning was cancelled. Nothing to see here....  :-[
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Offline Yip

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2010, 08:17:34 pm »
In some ways he's correct that there is clearly a problem within Muslim society. Of course there are peaceful Muslims, but some of the basic doctrines of Islam are dangerous. The idea that woman are suppose to be oppressed, the fact that the Quran contains direct orders to kill unbelievers... hell, I just read the first little section of it and it's already talking about doom to disbelievers. A religion based on this is inherently divisive. Divisiveness is not the path to peace.  (incidentally, much of the Bible is also inherently divisive, but for the most part Christianity has been tempered through being forced to exist within a secular society. )  While I do think that he's right that something needs to be done, I don't think book burning will achieve it.

Also, I'd recommend those interested in this topic to look up Wafa Sultan.

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2010, 04:20:13 pm »
Serra thank you for saying what I am not elegant enough to phrase, and bonus points for referencing one of my favorite books.
Why, thank you!  :-[  Ray Bradbury certainly provides a savory insight on what we're heading towards to... I'd recommend anyone Martian Chronicles or The Golden Apples of the Sun. It may sound off-topic, but I think he points out several things we are, as a community, doing.
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Offline CiceroKit

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2010, 05:12:50 pm »
Even though the burn was called off, violence still ensued against American troops serving in the Middle East because of all of the attention the media gave to the Reverend who said he would be burning numerous copies of the Koran. This is one of those times when the media shouldn't have covered a story. I know people who would say that of the coverage of Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, but unlike those stories, which were about the actions of people working for the U.S. government, this story was about one Reverend with an agenda. I know that the media loves this kind of story, because it is handed to them. No investigative reporting practice needed here. But come on, this guy was saying he was going to do this for the past couple of weeks until he just decided he wouldn't. All the hype and all the talk served the same purpose as if this guy actually had done the deed.

The freedom of speech does not cover inciting a riot. Some could logically see this man's actions as that. Too bad it was our troops who had to suffer the fallout from all of this.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2010, 04:54:14 am »
The freedom of speech does not cover inciting a riot. Some could logically see this man's actions as that.
By the same logic, a cartoon of Mohammed would be as well since it also is something that outrages some muslims to the point of violence. In fact, ANY protest against Islam would be. But there is nothing about what this guy planned that wouldn't count as legitimate tools for protesting.  Someone mentioned piss christ earlier. Well guess what, that was a good thing. It served as a demonstration that religions don't get to dictate what those outside the religion can and can't do. Had that been the purpose of this guy's planned event, I would be in support of it. Just as I was in support of Everybody Draw Mohammed Day. However, this guy's protest lacks that kind of focus, so I don't see the point of it.   

But whatever his reason, it's still vital that we uphold his right to protest. For freedom of speech to be of any value, it must necessary protect things we may not want to hear.

However, I agree that this got way more attention than it should have. I think that itself is a sign of a big part of the problem. As I've said before: hypersensative religiousity.

Offline Acton

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2010, 09:48:39 am »
This strikes me with an unsavory high resemblance of what the author Ray Bradbury wrote about in his book Fahrenheit 911. Awesome book, if you ask my opinion.


The book is Fahrenheit 411, Fahrenheit 911 was another Michael Moore ranting best forgotten. I have read the book and it has to do with totalitarian state banning and destroying information in order to mold and control the people, for example  The Nazi rallies and  Chinese Communist Cultural Revelation demonstrations.  There is a huge difference between government banning and destroying books to prevent access to them to a single person burning a book in a protest. The individual may burn a book but individual action doesn't prevent my right  to access a book.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2010, 12:27:31 pm »
But whatever his reason, it's still vital that we uphold his right to protest. For freedom of speech to be of any value, it must necessary protect things we may not want to hear.

By the same token, there's nothing wrong with others exercising the right to counter protest too. ;)
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Offline Yip

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2010, 04:09:46 am »
By the same token, there's nothing wrong with others exercising the right to counter protest too. ;)
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Florida minister plans to burn Koran.
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2010, 06:06:36 pm »
The book is Fahrenheit 411
Well, actually it's Fahrenheit 451...
But MAN that was stupid of me to write 911 >w< I'll edit it right away!!
Must have been distracted while typing...
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