Political Correctness

[Mooshi]

This might be a touchy subject for some, but it doesn't have to be.

Do you support being PC? Do you think it does more bad than good? Let's have a discussion on how being PC changed our lives.

Personal views:

I think being PC is horrible and should be done away with. The origin might have been equality, but it does more to seperate than anything else. Some people might want PC done away with to be spiteful bigots, but not everyone is like that..

The number one PC that legitimately annoys me to no end is the term "African-American" To me that term only exists to fill in some false guilt void as an answer to the slavery days and has no meaning today today besides fooling people. You don't hear the term African-Canadian, African-German, African-British and so on, do you? Unlesss you are actually from another country, only then is it justified in my opinion. Even our closest family friends who happen to be black prefer to be called black since African-American seems so insincere and forced. You're American if you're born in America dammit. Enough of the hyphens!

Another issue amused me as I read it on another board that was discussing PC. His story went he was at an art exhibit and one of the paintings were of these women shopping. Two women were looking at this painting and were making comments such as "I am so offended by this." "I bet a man painted that!" later on.. "So what are you doing later?" "Gonna go shopping." Hypocrasy at its best. The irony is said painting was painted by a WOMAN who also had another painting of MEN shoping in Paris.

The whole being Politically Correct thing has gotten way out of hand to the point of people crying foul over the slightest sneeze.

With me, I am not afraid to use derogatory terms against people if they are proving themselves to be a negative stereotype. I'm not a racist, bigot or hater - I hate geniune stupidity and should not be forced to be guilt tripped into anything. Political Correctness stifles free speech and is a cancer on society. There will always be jerks out there that hate blindly, but we shouldn't pretend to say things we don't actually mean to spare the feelings of people who are thin skinned. My take is that if you got something to say, say it.

[Alsek]

My views are rather simple on this one.

I don't wont to hurt anyone .  That includes emotions and feelings.  But while I’m willing to go out of my way to avoid hurting someone's feelings,  people need to remember that political correctness is a social standard,  not a law.  We have the right to the freedom of speech,  no matter how offensive it may be.  Some people now days are offended by what to others is seen as simply common sense and the truth.  If all you have to do is tell me you're offended,  and I have to change my opinion,  perception of reality,  and actions to accommodate you,  then something has gone horribly wrong.

@Mushi,  if someone called me a German American,  a British American,  or a European American,   I would be extremely displeased with them.  I am not from Germany,  I am not from Britain,  and I am not a European.  I have over 11 traceable races and bloodlines from several different continents and neither give allegiance to them or classify myself by any of them. Once you become a citizen of this country,  you are simply an American. So while I can understand how, “African Americans,” might want to dissociate themselves with some of the terminology used during some of America's darker times,  I can't say that the term commonly used would be any less offensive if I were in their place.

I prefer it make sense,  but I suppose emotion isn't always based in logic.

[Drake Blackpaw]

I think a lot of people who insist on Political Correctness are people who like to find offense in things.  Your story Mooshi about the two women looking at the painting of women shopping for example.  You need to be looking to be offended for your mind to jump to the conclusion that is was painted to highlight a stereotype about women.

There are words that were once acceptable that are now rude and derogatory to use and while some may say the new terms are PC, I'd say they are better than the alternatives.  For instance, can calling someone retarded be anything but derogatory?  I mean, I'll call someone retarded when I do mean to put them down for doing something idiotic, but I wouldn't use it as a term for someone who truly has a cognitive impairment or learning disability.   

As for the term African-American, I don't like it either.  I mean people don't refer to someone of my complexion as European-American.  I'm white, or Caucasian if you want to use the technical term.  I remember watching a talk show many years ago when the PC craze was really out there and the host introduced a guest as African-American.  The person interrupted him and said, "I'm not American."  The host didn't know how to refer to someone who was Black and not from America.

[Mooshi]

Exactly.

I mean, I don't go out of my way to offend people on purpose. What I do is base people on who they are as an individual and not who they are associated with by choice or by birth. If I see a black guy with a successful life and happy marriage, I think good on him. Now if I see a black guy playing gangsta and having baby mamas all over the place..I can't help but think they deserve the redicule. Stereotypes suck, but they do exist and some live right next to me!

People should stop pretending to be shocked by certain things since chances are, what they do in private is probably just as bad. It's like you can't do anything these days without someone complaining. I mean geeze, some women will make a scene if a guy holds a door open for them, pulls up a car or pays for dinner because it's somehow sexist. Protip: it's called being a gentleman, not belittling women.

[Yip]

I've long thought that Political Correctness was silly.  While you shouldn't go out of your way to be offensive, people also shouldn't go out of their way to get offended.

Your thing about African-Americans reminds me of something I heard from one of my former classmates. He was discussing how on forms they have you fill out race, and he says (and I'm paraphrasing) "why do we list 'latin', 'caucasian' and so on, when are we gonna just be 'American'?"  Even though these things are usually tracked in an attempt to stop discrimination, I sometimes wonder how much they instead help to maintain these divisions.

[Kobuk]

I hate political correctness. Nuff said.

Actually, I don't mind using the term African American. It's certainly a lot better than what people used to say in the past so long ago if you know what I mean. Saying African American is more respectable to people of a dark skinned color.

And for anyone who does know what I mean, the certain "N" word is seriously frowned upon on these forums. DO NOT use it.  

[Mooshi]

Nachos? Awww..but I love those! (I kid I kid, I know which word you mean) I hate it too when it's abused by racists, but don't fully condem it either. Either they stop using it and rap songs or they should shut up about being offended by it.

[Narei Mooncatt]

Either they stop using it and rap songs or they should shut up about being offended by it.

Ditto that.  One other PC thing that get's my goat is a lot of the big companies that say they are "equal opportunity, affirmative action" employers. Sorry, those are two opposite terms and you can't be both.

[Mooshi]

Greetings, fine fellows and women who are as equal and free as men are of the anthropormorphic variaty. Hello to those as well who do not associate themselves within the fandom, but are just as welcomed all the same! Can't leave non of you out, we're all equal here!

...Mooshi being PC is so weird..Imma stick to "fuzzbutts", thanks.

[Cimarron]

I dont do political correctness very well... I can fake it at work when I have to, or when Im talking with people I dont know very well... but normally Im not very PC.  Not too much offends me personally... I guess I can say the same for the people I associate with.

[Arbutus]

This thread seems very 90s somehow, lol. Wasn't this debate over a while ago?

Yes, I dislike "political correctness" as the phrase is being used here, I think it goes too far, I dislike restrictions on freedom of speech, several PC terms are just stupid, etc. etc. I agree with all of you in this (althooooough let me point out that to my limited knowledge, every poster in this thread thus far except I think Mooshi is a white male. Just throwing that out there.) But here's what I really think:

Political correctness is its own straw man. The political correctness movement took what should have been a noble goal - giving people who are outside the norm the respect they deserve - and blew it up into a caricature of itself, coming up with a whole lexicon of "PC terms" and making pests of themselves trying to police people's speech. Much of the time, they came across as sanctimonious and unpleasant, pushing terms that some of the people they were trying to "protect" didn't even like. It was ridiculous. It's so easy to attack.

And yet, it's also so easy to hide behind. I've seen many people, on the Internet and elsewhere, attack political correctness as a straw man just to give themselves license to say offensive things. The logic is usually something like "PC is generally annoying, therefore PC is 100% wrong, therefore, having rejected PC, I can now go ahead and spew needlessly offensive crap out of my mouth because I believe it is funny to do so." (This argument is particularly popular among the 13-year-old-boy demographic. I think I even used it as a 13-year-old boy.)

Do these people have the right to say whatever they want? Of course they do, no one's disputing that. But just because you can say something, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's not hard to remove a term you know some people find offensive from your speech and replace it with a more neutral one that means the same thing. (I've done it. Seriously. Not hard.)

I don't see this as "political correctness," either. I see it as quite simply accepting responsibility for the words you say, as well as for any unintentional hurt they might cause people. Accepting responsibility for your words, and treating all people with respect, are both essential planks of maturity. Yet, poke around the Internet a while, and you'll find it astonishing how many people are too immature to do either.

[Shabbernigdo]

I mean geeze, some women will make a scene if a guy holds a door open for them, pulls up a car or pays for dinner because it's somehow sexist. Protip: it's called being a gentleman, not belittling women.

Lol. next time slam the door in her face, make her pay for her own food then send her to get the car and see if it makes her happy.

Personally i dont do well with PC.  i call it like i see it.

black person / white person / asian person etc etc

Im not offended by much so i use a lot of terms people would find offencive. There just words to me.

[Foxpup]

This thread seems very 90s somehow, lol. Wasn't this debate over a while ago?

Yes, I dislike "political correctness" as the phrase is being used here, I think it goes too far, I dislike restrictions on freedom of speech, several PC terms are just stupid, etc. etc. I agree with all of you in this (althooooough let me point out that to my limited knowledge, every poster in this thread except I think Mooshi is a white male. Just throwing that out there.) But here's what I really think:

Political correctness is its own straw man. The political correctness movement took what should have been a noble goal - giving people who are outside the norm the respect they deserve - and blew it up into a caricature of itself, coming up with a whole lexicon of "PC terms" and making pests of themselves trying to police people's speech. Much of the time, they came across as sanctimonious and unpleasant, pushing terms that some of the people they were trying to "protect" didn't even like. It was ridiculous. It's so easy to attack.

And yet, it's also so easy to hide behind. I've seen many people, on the Internet and elsewhere, attack political correctness as a straw man just to give themselves license to say offensive things. The logic is usually something like "PC is generally annoying, therefore PC is 100% wrong, therefore, having rejected PC, I can now go ahead and spew needlessly offensive crap out of my mouth because I believe it is funny to do so." (This argument is particularly popular among the 13-year-old-boy demographic. I think I even used it as a 13-year-old boy.)

Do these people have the right to say whatever they want? Of course they do, no one's disputing that. But just because you can say something, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's not hard to remove a term you know some people find offensive from your speech and replace it with a more neutral one that means the same thing. (I've done it. Seriously. Not hard.)

I don't see this as "political correctness," either. I see it as quite simply accepting responsibility for the words you say, as well as for any unintentional hurt they might cause people. Accepting responsibility for your words, and treating all people with respect, are both essential planks of maturity. Yet, poke around the Internet a while, and you'll find it astonishing how many people are too immature to do either.

Hey, get out of my brain, Arbutus!

[Arbutus]

Hey, get out of my brain, Arbutus!

*crawls around inside your head and rearranges all your brain-parts*

[Mooshi]

every poster in this thread
except I think Mooshi is a white male.

What gave that away, my sig? Everybody loves a cute asian! o:

[Sigurd Volsung]

One term that annoys the piss out of me when it comes to American PC and I had to help a friend from Denmark with is "Native American" the term had to have come from some idiot who isn't and American Indian, for proof I point at a very large organization that links many tribes The American Indian Movement. If they didn't want to be called American Indians they wouldn't have put those two words in their three word name!!! My friend knew wasn't sure what the proper term was since she had heard both and didn't want to be offensive to people from that demographic. Also as speaking as someone born in the USA by all the Gods of Asgard I'm a Native American as well.

While I don't like PC I also don't go around using terms that are intentionally offensive. I am not going to use the 'N' word, I am not going to call my mother-in-law's side of the family a bunch of 'wet backs' or 'Spics'. Heck you want to piss me off royally you call any Latino by either of those terms in my presence I'll give you a such a verbal barrage that you may also need to see a dentist because I've loosened a few of your teeth.

If some one was born in another country and has become a US citizen after moving here I may call them by their country of origin. A Japanese American was born in Japan, not a person who's parents came from Japan and was born in the US. I went to school with a Caucasian girl who was an African American which ticked of most of the black students in the school because here was this white kid getting called an African American but she wasn't black, little did they know that she came from South Africa, so she had a far bigger right to the name than any of the English as a first language black students.

There is a lot of wiggle room between PC and offensive and I've chosen to live there

[Alsek]

"Native American"

See,  unlike, "African American," that one actually makes sense.  When Columbus, "discovered," America the original thought was that he'd ended up in India.  That's why they were called Indians as far as i know.  Seeing as how they're not from India,  rather,  Natives of the north American continent,  it makes a lot more sense.

It doesn't even have anything to do with political correctness to me.  I wont call a north American Native a native of the Indian subcontinent because that's not what they are.

Traceable amounts of Cherokee,  Choctaw and Blackfoot here...  Along with about 8 other bloodlines.

[Yip]

As a related issue, personally I think it's dumb to take offense at a word. It's the meaning that's important, not the words themselves. And the meaning depends highly on the context and way the words are being used. Take the word "ignorance". The word should not be taken as an automatic insult. For example, the phrase "argument from ignorance" refers to a specific logical fallacy, it doesn't mean that you are being called a wholly unintelligent being.

[Narei Mooncatt]

To go a bit on what Vararam was saying, one of my other peeves about PC stuff is people don't look at the intent of the speaker, but the person addressed decides if something is derogitory or not. Take Mooshi's example of "fuzzbutts". No matter how fun, and jokingly innocent he meant it, if one person takes offense to it, society would deam it politically incorrect. Heck, we even have third party offense now with groups like the NAACP, ACLU, and LULAC (just to name a few off the top of my head) that claim to represent a certain group of people, even if a large number of those people disagree with the orginization.

BTW, I happen to like the term fuzzbutt.

[Serra Belvoule]

I thought "fuzzbutt" was OUR thing!!  OMG I'm leaving you!!!
X3
I don't think political correctness is a thing that should be imposed nor should have grounds for existing, although it does. But to be non-offensive to others, there shouldn't be "guidelines" and things like that, I think people should be able to coexist without hurting each other and being sensible enough to know what might make some people upset.
But meh, I'm idealistic. People nowadays NEED political correctness (even if it's mostly hypocrisy) to avoid conflicts. I guess it's a second-hand solution for some things.

[Mooshi]

Political correctness is like putting a bandaid over a gapping wound. It ultimately solves nothing. The world isn't rainbows and candies puppies no matter how hard people try to pretend it is. World peace is a pipe dream. Man's very nature won't allow such a thing or to exist. I'm a realist too, you know. Can't turn a blind eye to reality.

What one person takes in stride, another person has a hissy fit over. We can be careful all we want, but someone will always be offended. There isn't any real use for being PC unless you enjoy being a deluded fool. :3

[Sigurd Volsung]

"Native American"

See,  unlike, "African American," that one actually makes sense.  When Columbus, "discovered," America the original thought was that he'd ended up in India.  That's why they were called Indians as far as i know.  Seeing as how they're not from India,  rather,  Natives of the north American continent,  it makes a lot more sense.

It doesn't even have anything to do with political correctness to me.  I wont call a north American Native a native of the Indian subcontinent because that's not what they are.

Traceable amounts of Cherokee,  Choctaw and Blackfoot here...  Along with about 8 other bloodlines.

My point is that I have friends who are members of the "American Indian" Movement, so I'll stick with American Indian, that and just about every member of any tribe I have met refers to themselves as being American Indians, this includes my wife who is part Apache. Personally I prefer the term that the Canadians have which is First Nations People, though truthfully I'd much rather be able to call a person by the actual tribe.

[Alsek]

Personally I prefer the term that the Canadians have which is First Nations People, though truthfully I'd much rather be able to call a person by the actual tribe.

See,  by tribe makes a lot more sense.  Like i said,  it's not a matter of what they prefer...  They're not from India.   o.o

[Mooshi]

Little know fact about me. I was technically adopted and raised around the Choctaw tribe some part of my life. Yes, they aren't from India and yes, Columbus was an idiot of epic proportions to even think these people looked Indian. Here is an interesting fact. Whether you wanna say Native American or Indian, the tribes had to come somewhere! The Choctaw for example originated from Siberia!

[Arbutus]

Like i said,  it's not a matter of what they prefer...

.......Yes it is. Why would you not call people what they prefer to be called?

FWIW, the official Smithsonian museum about U.S. indigenous cultures is called the "National Museum of the American Indian." That naming decision was made with the buy-in of lots and lots and lots of tribes.