Guns

[Mooshi]

This is a topic I've been wanting to do for awhile. I don't remember what I was reading to be linked to cases, but I thought let's do this.

This thread is about guns ranging from gun control all the way to should it be legal to shoot someone in your home without being liable. There are pros and guns from both supporters and those against firearms. What is your opinion?

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I strongly disagree that preventing citizens from owning guns stops crime. If anything, teaching everyone to use a firearm and even have one in each home will be what prevents crimes. There is always the black market and if thugs are armed and you are not..do you think the police would get to you in time? I sure don't. Now if everyone were trained and armed, you'd have to be a very brave (or stupid) to risk your life knowing the person you are targeting is also armed. Take a look at Switzerland. Every male citizen is issued a fully automatic assault rifle at age 20. Is that country riddled with crime? No. It's among one of the safest countries in the world. Of course, the Swiss are also trained to be responsible. They take firearms very seriously. No offense to my home country, but Americans (as they stand today) are too stupid to be trusted with military class weapons. This can be changed with an attitude adjustment + proper training.  Instead of the liberals trying to strip away the 2nd amendment, I believe we should learn from the Swiss.

[Kobuk]

Take a look at Switzerland. Every male citizen is issued a fully automatic assault rifle at age 20.

I guess that's how swiss cheese got so many holes? The Swiss do target practice. 

[Cimarron]

Leave it to the Wisconsinite to bring cheese into a gun debate! 

[Mooshi]

Kobuk...I wish to have cheese cubes to throw at you.

Anywho, anyone else have any non-food related comments about gun control? >.>

[Kris]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[Dusty]

Well regardless of whether guns kill people or not, over here the rate of firearm related crime has dropped since they introduced tougher gun laws and did the massive buyback, so I don't mind such laws.

[Shabbernigdo]

I like my guns. Every one should have the right to protect themselves but with that said there are some people i wouldent trust with a butter knife more less any thing that fired a projectile.

From all the articles ive seen taking away law abiding citizens fire arms does not lower crime. It may decrease it initialy but once the criminals figures out they can now run arround un opposed by any one it sharply spikes to rates higher then before. Its not the law abiding citizens every one has to worry about its the ones who dont follow the laws.

To the OP it kinda irks when you judge every american with a blanket statement like there is no american who is trained to safely / properly use and maintain civilian / military grade weps. I know quite a few civilians who can shoot and just generaly handle fire arms better then a large percentage of military personel.
Why not try ( a good number of americans or mabey many americans )   

On the subject of home intrusion. Personally i belive if some one uninvited enters your home and you fear for your safety or safety of a family member you should be able to put them down.

[Mooshi]

Yeah, sorry. I didn't mean every American is dim. However...I have come across a lot that fit the discription of your wouldn't trust with a butter knife statement. Believe me, I'm surrounded by idiots. However, I have met a few that are sane. I guess it's hard not to blanket term a country that has an unhealthy obsessed with "reality" tv. Those are the lot that drown out the rest of us. And those are the type of people I do not have much hope for when it comes to operating a firearm.

As per the breaking in, I remember reading a story of a burglar that sued the homeowner for shooting him and won. The defendant's home insurance had to pay and then they quickly dropped him. Liberals... Thankfully, this rarely happens - nice to know some judges aren't blind. I'm a firm believer that if someone breaks in and you feel your life or your famlies life is in danger, you should be able to take them down without legal problems. The other persons fault for breaking in. Dead men tell no tales...harsh, but better than wounding them and being sued. Even some police will tell you this.

[Foxpup]

Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. Especially the small-caliber ones - they pose a choking hazard for children. We must immediately ban all bullets smaller than .50 caliber! Think of the children! (just kidding, although actual gun-control legislation seems almost as silly) As usual, I'm with Mooshi.

[Alsek]

Read this:  http://www.rense.com/general9/gunlaw.htm

In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.
 
The ordinance states the gun law is needed to "protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants."
 
Then-councilman J.O. Stephenson said after the ordinance was passed, everyone "went crazy."
 
"People all over the country said there would be shootings in the street and violence in homes," he said. "Of course, that wasn't the case."
 
In fact, according to Stephenson, it caused the crime rate in the city to plunge.
 
Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law's passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.

[Mooshi]

I think the reason crime goes down instead of up is because thugs are cowards. It's easy to get your way when you have overwhelming force vs someone who is unarmed and scared. Once you're on even ground, you're no longer defenseless. That's the way I see it, anyway.

[Sky Striker]

I think the reason crime goes down instead of up is because thugs are cowards. It's easy to get your way when you have overwhelming force vs someone who is unarmed and scared. Once you're on even ground, you're no longer defenseless. That's the way I see it, anyway.

Exactly the way I (and probably lots of other of us Amurricans) see it. Heck, when I get my own place I'm buying a revolver for actual protecting and a pump shotgun for intimidation. Seriously, that "ch-chck" is one of the most intimidating sounds on earth. I wouldn't even have to fire if they heard that noise.

However I don't approve assault rifles being allowed for public sale. They're called assault rifles. You can't seriously tell me you're going to go hunting with those. What the U.S.A has now is pretty good.

[Fenny the Fox]

I support the right to own guns. As Alsek pointed out in the case of Kennesaw, which was immediately what I thought of (I live in GA, of course that bears weight to me), the rate of crime drops when guns are allowed or even mandated.

Now, the question is, in this day and age of modern firearms, does anyone need an assault rifle? AKs and .50s are neat and all, but who needs one in the civilian world?

Of course, I do feel better gun safety needs be taught. Or taught more widely, to be frank.

[Shabbernigdo]

I think the reason crime goes down instead of up is because thugs are cowards. It's easy to get your way when you have overwhelming force vs someone who is unarmed and scared. Once you're on even ground, you're no longer defenseless. That's the way I see it, anyway.

Exactly the way I (and probably lots of other of us Amurricans) see it. Heck, when I get my own place I'm buying a revolver for actual protecting and a pump shotgun for intimidation. Seriously, that "ch-chck" is one of the most intimidating sounds on earth. I wouldn't even have to fire if they heard that noise.

However I don't approve assault rifles being allowed for public sale. They're called assault rifles. You can't seriously tell me you're going to go hunting with those. What the U.S.A has now is pretty good.

I personally own a few assault rifles and see no issues with having them.  AK / AR / SKS and will be getting an ACR eventully.  You dont only use assault rifles for hunting / killing. I use mine for target practice / just shooting for fun in general and i like to tinker with em.
I do belive that they should run background checks and such before selling one to some one but i dont think they should hide them away so only a select few know how and where to find them either.

[Kobuk]

Americans are too damn trigger happy about guns.  Guns for this. Guns for that. Assault rifles, Semi-automatics, pistols, etc., etc., etc. How much is too much? How many guns does the average citizen need anyway for home protection? It really is crazy in this country the way people need and use guns. I understand the Constitution gave us the right to bear arms. But some people take it way too far.

Nuff said. 

[Kobuk]

P.S. - *goes to a gun store and points to all the selections*

I'll take two of those pistols, 6 of those semi-automatics, 4 machine guns, 10 hunting rifles, and 230 boxes of ammo, please.

*goes to guard my Mountain Dew stash* 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkqnAh_5ODw

[Shim]

P.S. - *goes to a gun store and points to all the selections*

I'll take two of those pistols, 6 of those semi-automatics, 4 machine guns, 10 hunting rifles, and 230 boxes of ammo, please.

*goes to guard my Mountain Dew stash* 

Hah, what you said reminded me of the gun stores in the 'Grand Theft Auto' series. "Ammunation", they're called .

[Shabbernigdo]

Americans are too damn trigger happy about guns.  Guns for this. Guns for that. Assault rifles, Semi-automatics, pistols, etc., etc., etc. How much is too much? How many guns does the average citizen need anyway for home protection? It really is crazy in this country the way people need and use guns. I understand the Constitution gave us the right to bear arms. But some people take it way too far.

Nuff said. 

Its not only just about home protection some people just like owning / collecting them. Same as an anime fan who has shelves of managa or a movie buff who dedicates a whole room to movies and movie memorebilia < ---- SP?   or a furry who has tons of stuffed animals.  Do they need them? No. Do they want then just because? Yes.   : )
Personally ide love to have a .50 rifle not because i really have any use for it but just because i want one.

[Fenny the Fox]

I know people who collect guns. Actually...I would if I could afford the guns. haha
But I prefer older models. Some old WWII or early military issue rifles would be amazing to have.

But, otherwise, guns are typically needed for hunting as well.

So home-protection is only one aspect of firearm ownership.

[Sk Skunk]

Gun control is using 2 hands, hitting the target.

Are some Americans crazy about guns? Sure, and like anything else, some do take it too far. Blame ignorant rednecks, or gang bangers or that darn constitution, even the supreme court justices don't all agree on the meaning.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Says nothing about hunting, or enjoying a hobby, or honing a skill. A militia is thought of to be made from a group of citizens, not part of the government. IMHO, the rest stands for itself. Could it be that this is to protect ourselves from an oppressive government even more than protecting our lives and property from "bad people"?

We do regulate guns in this country, in some parts, more than others. In some ways we allow more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, than we regulate other amendments. I own guns legal in Colorado, that I cannot take into other states. Does having 4 extra rounds make that much of a difference? No, but it is my choice. Do I need a full automatic rifle? No, but if I want to pay the price and get the permits, I can if desired. I also choose to live in a state that has a "Make my day" law.

What amazes me is that with all of the guns that are available, there isn't more random shooting on the street. That tells me that even if the laws aren't perfect, they mostly work. Do we need more laws, permits, or adjustments to current laws? Maybe. Gun crimes that occur are from people that choose to break laws that exist. Making laws only apply to those that choose to obey. Sounds sort of silly, but unless we decide to heavily regulate people rather than things, we will never fix the problem. The fear of that kind of regulation is one of the reasons I own at least one gun.

[Foxpup]

Does having 4 extra rounds make that much of a difference?

It does if you run out of ammo in the middle of a gunfight.

[Sky Striker]

For home defense, hopefully you won't need much ammo. One or two shots would scare of most robbers.

[Fen-Fen]

For home defense, hopefully you won't need much ammo. One or two shots would scare of most robbers.

Hopefully the ch-chink of a shotgun will strike fear into their hearts.

I personally will legally own a firearm once I turn 21. I will also apply for my GFL (firearms license) so I can conceal carry on me when I'm out and alone. I will more than likely at this time be going into the downtown area of my city and it also has a lot of crime because of the tourists. Also add that I'm a female and more than likely an easier target in the eyes of a would-be attacker. I've shot multiple firearms under the close eye of my friend and he is more than happy to correct me if I'm doing something incorrectly. I wouldn't want to use it on somebody, but it's more of a "I would rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it" kind of thing, I guess. As it stands now, I won't even go downtown without my friend who conceal carries.

I believe that if we impose harsher gun control regulations that it will affect the law-abiding citizens who own a firearm more so than your common street thug. The street thug is already breaking the law by mugging you so why should he care if the pistol he's using is legal or not? Teaching people the proper way to handle, shoot, and clean a gun is the best way to cure the "scare" most people have when it comes to guns in my opinion. Like somebody has said before, it's not the guns who kill people it's the people who kill people.

I also feel that if a person wants to own an assault rifle it's their own decision. If they have the money for it and have their eye on it then by all means go on ahead and buy it. They can't use it in a lot of cases, but for them it's usually the idea of having it is what makes them happy. It's along the same lines as somebody buying a super-fast car like a Porsche or a Ferrari. You can't (legally) do the highest speed on that car, but the idea of owning one makes the buyer happy.

[Arbutus]

I just found some interesting statistics online:

In 2006, according to the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, people with guns murdered 27 people in Australia; 59 in England and Wales; 60 in Spain; 190 in Canada; 194 in Germany; and 10,177 in the United States.

(Not a typo.)

I don't know a whole lot about the issue, so I'll let others unpack what that means and doesn't mean.

[Fen-Fen]

I just found some interesting statistics online:

In 2006, according to the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, people with guns murdered 27 people in Australia; 59 in England and Wales; 60 in Spain; 190 in Canada; 194 in Germany; and 10,177 in the United States.

(Not a typo.)

I don't know a whole lot about the issue, so I'll let others unpack what that means and doesn't mean.

I really don't know if it's totally reputable. The Brady Center is supported by The Brady Campaign who is one of the biggest rallying forces for extreme gun control.