Author Topic: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?  (Read 4503 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2011, 10:14:34 am »
Kiboe: I merged your new thread titled "NDAA signed into law, Martial Law declared", which started on Post # 23, into the current thread here. We don't need multiple threads on the same subject.  :P

And secondly, everybody needs to calm down and chill out.  :P >:(

Offline Kobuk

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2011, 01:53:10 pm »
What the NDAA (Specifically Sections 1031 and 1032) is doing isn't much different than what has happened before in the U.S. from the mid 1940's to the late 1950's. Back during World War II, the US interred hundreds or thousands of Japanese, Japanese-Americans, and/or Japanese/German collaborators in internment camps and jails across the US. The same thing happened again during the 1950's with the "Red Scare" (Communism and McCarthyism). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
What is going on now with AQ, the Taliban, and terrorism isn't much different than what happened long ago. The time, circumstances, and some other things have changed, but the detentions, rules, laws, eavesdropping, spying, etc. are still the same or similar. What the US is doing and going through now is nothing new. If you think the US is bad, then you folks need to go live in Israel. That country has been besieged by terrorism for decades. A lot of groups and countries don't like Israel. Those people are living with the fear of terrorists and terrorism EVERY SINGLE DAY. They have armed military personnel on the streets keeping a watch for suspicious activities.
There is no martial law in the US. There are no military on American streets. Kiboe, you sound like the boy in the fairy tale who cried "Wolf" when there wasn't one. You're being too paranoid.

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Offline Alsek

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2012, 01:47:56 am »
Kiboe, you sound like the boy in the fairy tale who cried "Wolf" when there wasn't one. You're being too paranoid.

He's entitled to his opinion.  o.o

I personally don't think it will be used in the way he's talking about in our lifetime,  but the fact that it's there: i don't find acceptable.  It's against everything i believe in.  Furthermore,  the fact that this isn't televised in the US despite it being a major story in a lot of other countries is rather disturbing.  It was signed into law on a major US holiday behind closed doors. Not cool.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 02:52:22 am by Alsek »

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 01:57:02 am »
Fox News and the conservative radio talk show hosts I occasionally listen to have been vocal against this, but I don't get to tune in often enough to know how much attention overall they are giving it.
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Offline Alsek

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2012, 02:00:33 am »
Fox News and the conservative radio talk show hosts I occasionally listen to have been vocal against this, but I don't get to tune in often enough to know how much attention overall they are giving it.

Weird.  I was under the impression neo-cons were mainly the ones driving this one.  o.o

Shows how much i know.  x_x

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2012, 02:14:23 am »
Neo-cons? I've heard the term now and then but not sure what it's supposed to mean exactly. Always been used as a derogatory term though, when I have heard it. But true conservatives that believe in following the constitution are pretty set against this. I would expect a lawsuit on this, but you can't sue the government without standing.

The way I understand it, you can't simply claim a law is unconstitutional. You have to be directly affected by it ( American citizen being detained under the provision without due process in this case) before you can challenge it in court. I may be wrong though.
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Offline Alsek

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2012, 02:26:40 am »
Narei,  We've talked.  :P

You know i consider myself a conservative.  ^_^    But i think most,  "real conservatives," were also against the patriot act despite the fact that it's supported in general by the republican party.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2012, 02:41:43 am »
The more I hear, the more conservatives are drifting from the republic party's changing beliefs. They may still be registered republican, but only because it's better than democrat in their eyes.
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Offline PsychotixxFoxx

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2012, 11:45:08 am »
WOO everyone ready for some police state?! XD

jk jk..

So how does everyone feel about it being official now though?

Offline Shim

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2012, 05:30:31 am »
To me, the entire thing is just disturbing. I know it's a big stretch, but this with the potential of SOPA, the world is sounding more and more like something out of Orwell.

Offline Kay Alett

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2012, 12:35:25 pm »
I hear this thing actually passed.
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Offline PsychotixxFoxx

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2012, 03:40:12 pm »
Yep, passed on New Years. The Obama administration says it won't interpret the bill that way, but any other president could. And after all, it's practically already happening. A girl and her boyfriend were physically detained and arrested for standing in a terminal, shouting information about the bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Cg6ayc-w3bE

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2012, 04:31:11 pm »
In all fairness, they were inside a terminal and possibly disturbing the peace/disrupting business (hard to tell fully from the video), which is not something you can do even as a protest. So the cops had the right even before this law to make them leave.

OWS also has a bad habit of stuff like this that causes police to get involved. When things get heated, that's when all the cameras come out and makes it look like the cops are abusing power, when you never get to see what started the conflict to begin with. Had they complied with police orders in the first place, it never would have escalated to that point.
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Offline PsychotixxFoxx

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2012, 04:44:09 pm »
If they were disturbing the peace, then why were all the people there with them? I'm just saying that as Americans we have the right to assemble peacefully and protest in any case. The reason for being in a terminal is probably because there are more people there to listen. Just my idea of the thing.

Offline Shim

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2012, 05:13:50 pm »
It reminds me of the guys who were "dancing" (moving back and forth) in place and got arrested and tackled at the Jefferson memorial.

Offline Alsek

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2012, 05:17:20 pm »
It reminds me of the guys who were "dancing" (moving back and forth) in place and got arrested and tackled at the Jefferson memorial.

Yeah.  It figures that Adam Kokesh would be the one to figure out how to get arrested for dancing.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2012, 05:41:15 pm »
If they were disturbing the peace, then why were all the people there with them?
I'm sure they were all there to protest, but those two seemed to be leading the group. So that's who the police would go after first. Remember, the right to free speech doesn't mean the people around have to be forced to listen to you.

Quote
I'm just saying that as Americans we have the right to assemble peacefully and protest in any case. The reason for being in a terminal is probably because there are more people there to listen. Just my idea of the thing.
We have the right to peacefully protest. Not to be so loud that it prevents a (for all intents and purposes of the vid) a captive audience from doing their normal activities or to ignore such protest. Freedom to protest doesn't give you carte blanch to do as you please. You still have to obey local ordinances and such. Large rallies also often need permits, which gives the city a chance to prepare as well.
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Offline Kobuk

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Offline Mylo

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Re: National Defense Authorization Act: End of the Bill of Rights?
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2012, 11:46:52 pm »
To me, the entire thing is just disturbing. I know it's a big stretch, but this with the potential of SOPA, the world is sounding more and more like something out of Orwell.

This is nothing new. Cell phones can already be located. People freely reveal themselves on social networks, and even non-users have so-called ghost profiles. I mean, look at the Patriot Act, which I believe was extended, a recent example of our movement into a proto-Orwellian society. I'm not trying to sound sensationalist, but it is true that our society is now more connected and open than ever, and we're finally coming to realize the unintended consequences.

Btw survalence may be uncomfortable and intruding, but if you want to see a real police state, go to Syria.