Poll

Do you believe in ghosts?

GHOST?!! WHERE?!! D:
5 (9.8%)
Totally not real...
15 (29.4%)
*hums GhostBusters theme*
9 (17.6%)
I might :)
22 (43.1%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Author Topic: Paranormal Experiences  (Read 3327 times)

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Offline Yip

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2011, 04:29:55 am »
"When you have eliminated the impossible, Whatever remains, However improbable, must be the truth."
This only works when you can assess all possible outcomes. As long as we are dealing with a system containing unknowns (which we are with reality), then eliminating one possibility only means that particular possibility isn't the truth. It does not make an improbable possibility a likely one.

For example, if we know that the answer must be A, B, or C, and we can rule out A and C, then it must be B. However, if the possibilities are A, B, C, and something else, then eliminating A and C means the answer is B or something else. And thus if we knew at the start that B was unlikely, then it remains unlikely because the answer could still be something else.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 12:13:54 pm »
Do we really understand enough about how the universe
works to say something we don't understand is really
impossible? Obviously there are some things that are
clearly so.

If you had used a cellphone in front of someone century's
ago he/she would have thought it was magic, or impossible.
They had no way to see or understand the RF energy a cellphone
uses.

Can energy signatures be imprinted on physical objects or
space? Could this explain paranormal effects that some people
feel they hear or see?

The thing that bothers me the most is that so called Ghosts
are so very shy.. Why wouldn't they be more like the ones in
Hogworts of the Harry Potter story? Constantly visible and
active. Of course they might be, and we just don't have the
ability to see them.

Just something interesting and fun to think about. :orbunny:

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Offline Foxpup

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 08:06:10 pm »
Do we really understand enough about how the universe
works to say something we don't understand is really
impossible? Obviously there are some things that are
clearly so.
Yes. We understand thermodynamics. When something violates the laws of thermodynamics, it's a pretty good bet that it's impossible. Case is point: ghosts. Pretty much everything that people attribute to ghosts requires that they consume vast amounts of energy - almost as much energy as a living being. Yet they don't eat, breath, or photosynthesise. So where do they get all their energy from? It has been claimed that they obtain energy directly from the heat of their surrounding environment (which supposedly is why you feel a chill when a ghost passes by), but that explanation goes against the second law of thermodynamics. Unless someone can reconcile the behaviour of ghosts with the laws of thermodynamics, I think it's safe to say that they're impossible.

If you had used a cellphone in front of someone century's
ago he/she would have thought it was magic, or impossible.
They had no way to see or understand the RF energy a cellphone
uses.
No they wouldn't. There were no cellphone towers centuries ago. Your cellphone would just be an inert piece of plastic with a pretty glowing screen, and would thus probably be assumed to be some kind of lamp. :P

Can energy signatures be imprinted on physical objects or
space? Could this explain paranormal effects that some people
feel they hear or see?
Until you meaningfully define "energy signature" (is it something you make with an energy pen?), I'm going to say no.

The thing that bothers me the most is that so called Ghosts
are so very shy.. Why wouldn't they be more like the ones in
Hogworts of the Harry Potter story? Constantly visible and
active. Of course they might be, and we just don't have the
ability to see them.
One possible reason why ghosts aren't constantly visible and active is that they don't exist. Of course, not everybody finds that explanation acceptable.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 08:39:42 pm »
Quote
One possible reason why ghosts aren't constantly visible and active is that they don't exist. Of course, not everybody finds that explanation acceptable.

Or they do exist, but maybe on some higher "plane" of existance.

Just because people think that some things are impossible doesn't necessarily mean that they are. Long, long ago, People thought we would never fly, but Orville and Wilbur Wright proved everybody wrong. People thought we would never be able to put a man on the moon, but we did. There are so many things that people think are impossible, but yet mankind keeps proving those people wrong. I've often said it multiple times in the past, but: "Science fiction/Fantasy has a tendancy of becoming science FACT."

Offline Foxpup

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 04:14:04 am »
Quote
One possible reason why ghosts aren't constantly visible and active is that they don't exist. Of course, not everybody finds that explanation acceptable.

Or they do exist, but maybe on some higher "plane" of existance.
What are you talking about? Things either exist or they don't. There are no "planes" of existence. That makes about as much sense as saying your wife isn't pregnant, but maybe she exists in a higher "plane" of pregnancy.

Just because people think that some things are impossible doesn't necessarily mean that they are.
We're not talking about what people think, we're talking about science. Science doesn't care what people think.

Long, long ago, People thought we would never fly, but Orville and Wilbur Wright proved everybody wrong.
Who thought that, and what was their contribution to science? I don't recall any scientist making such claims. In any case, the Wright brothers didn't prove anybody wrong since Jean-François Pilâtre de Rozier and François Laurent d'Arlandes had already demonstrated human flight way back in 1782.

People thought we would never be able to put a man on the moon, but we did.
The only person I know of who thought that was Professor Bickerton, who in 1926 made this claim on the grounds that nitroglycerine, the best rocket fuel available at the time, could only provide one tenth of the necessary energy to propel its own mass into orbit, thereby demonstrating his total lack of understanding of contemporary rocket science. Nobody who did know anything about rocket science ever thought going to the moon was impossible.

There are so many things that people think are impossible, but yet mankind keeps proving those people wrong. I've often said it multiple times in the past, but: "Science fiction/Fantasy has a tendancy of becoming science FACT."
No it doesn't. Stop getting people's hopes up.

Offline Yip

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2011, 05:50:40 am »
I've often said it multiple times in the past, but: "Science fiction/Fantasy has a tendancy of becoming science FACT."[/color]
How has fantasy ever had any tendency of becoming fact? That's simply false.  With science fiction there is some truth there, but this is because it tends to be focused on imagining what things might be like in the future. And since this is the some sort of thing that leads to technological progress, it's not surprising that there is some overlap. Note however, that where that saying of yours holds any truth, it has no relation to ghosts or any other "paranormal" things that'd fit under this thread.

Do we really understand enough about how the universe works to say something we don't understand is really impossible? Obviously there are some things that are
clearly so.
While we can never be sure of what is, we can often be sure of what is not. Thats how science works. That's why it's so important that claims be falsifiable. For example, imagine you have a box but you don't know what's inside. Even without looking in the box, there are still are a large number of things we can confidently say are not in there.

And, yes, you should remain open to new evidence, but the time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence to support it. And with claims of "paranormal", that's just not the case. Not only are such claims usually non-falsifiable, but the evidence they have is incredibly weak.

For example, I've seen ghost hunter type shows where they get all excited when their recording equipment picks up strange noises that anyone that's worked with audio recording should clearly recognize as merely audio artifacts. These sounds are in no way paranormal, and yet these people will make claims of how "it sounds like it's saying this" which quickly becomes "it's saying this". There are problems upon problems with this.

For one: The phenomenon of pareidolia. People are really good at finding patterns in things even when they are not really there. And it's even easier to hear a random sound as saying a particular thing what you've primed yourself expecting to hear it.  The brain is really good at making stuff up to fill in the parts that are missing. (Though not directly related, here is a neat example of how good the brain is at filling in unknown gaps with made up stuff: http://www.blindspottest.com/)

Another common problem is that these claims usually rely almost entirely on anecdotal evidence. We know that our senses can be easily fooled. And we know that humans are very prone to faulty ways of thinking such as confirmation bias. Even worse, stories of "paranormal experiences" I've heard often occur when someone is awoken during the night. When we are sleeping, are brains are in an altered state and even for some time after we wake up, especially if woken suddenly, there are still going to be a lot of those chemicals in your brain that are released during sleep. In other words, that's a time when it's even more likely than usual for your senses to get fooled.

[edited to fix typos]
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 01:27:19 am by Vararam »

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2011, 03:07:05 pm »
Yes, most all of the reports of paranormal sightings
are either false or due to someones over active imagination.
Perhaps even a producer of a tv show who wants better rateings?
But I think there will always be some that defy explanation.

   I am sure as long as so called paranormal events
occur there will always be people who wish to beleive in
them. In some cases they can be very real to those who do.
Even if they do defy the physical laws as we know them.

        I find it all interesting, as with any unusual and mysterious
events. :orbunny:
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Offline victorwolf

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2011, 04:29:41 pm »
i believe in ghosts. when i was a kid i was visiting my aunt, one night i got thirsty and went to the kitchen for something to drink but when i got there i saw a pair of light blue eyes staring at the fridge after a few seconds it slowly turned towards me when they met my eyes i ran back to the couch i was sleeping on and covered my self with the blanket. Another time i lived in a condo while i slept my brother went down stairs for some reason and when he came back up he saw me staring at me wearing the same cloths i wore that day when he said "(my name) is that you" after that it tuned towards him smiled and disappeared in to the floor in a blue mist. In the same house (again my brother saw it) he looked over the bunk bed (he slept on top) to see if i was asleep when he did he saw a woman coming up out of my stomach half burned and disfigured (he said he was so scared he covered him self with his blanket till morning. The entire time i lived there i felt uneasy. so those are my brothers and my experiences i don't know what else to say but read the paranormal books.
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Offline Grisli

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2011, 09:29:35 pm »
Personally, no I don't believe in ghosts.

That said, I think it's unfair to discount them based on current scientific physical theory alone. Understanding the laws of thermodynamics, for instance, only means they can't exist according to that theory's view of the physical universe. Religion, for instance, introduces a supernatural/paranormal side of the universe that doesn't have to obey the laws of the physical world.

The existence of that second universal aspect is, naturally, debatable. For me, I just don't see the logical or spiritual connection to make ghosts probable enough to believe in, nor have I had an encounter or experienced a phenomenon to suggest something to the contrary. The spiritual world is something I do believe in though, and I very much believe in the existence of angels and other heavenly beings, but their location in the universe is not entirely clear to me.
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Offline victorwolf

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2011, 09:49:12 pm »
my mom told me a when she was a teen one of her friends brothers died, and when she went to her friends house they were in her friends brothers room her friend said that his brother was still around. she said no way it impossible(she was sitting on the top bunk of the bunk beds in that room) after she said that the model air planes in the room started to spin around and the top bunk she was sitting on fell out and she went with it. after that she believed in ghosts so i guess you just have to experience it for your self if you don't believe. it's your opinion on the the matter that counts so it's all up to you.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2012, 01:36:56 am »
it's your opinion on the the matter that counts so it's all up to you.
Sorry, but reality is whatever it is regardless of one's opinion of it. If ghosts actually exist, then they actually exist even if no one believes they do. And if they don't exist, someone believing they do doesn't change it.

Offline Gamerwoof

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2012, 12:43:23 am »
After living in my grandma's house, yes I do believe in ghosts.

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: Paranormal Experiences
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2012, 01:16:11 am »
This thread is past the six month gravedigging limit, so it has been locked.
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