Religion Poll

[Michen_S]

I'm a Christian animist, and I believe that everything in this world is made alive by God and is filled with God's presence. Not only is there a spiritual world, we're living in it and we're affected by it every single day. I know this view of Christianity frowned upon by many Christians, but I really feel like this is the path God wants me to take.

I don't read in the Bible that often, but I do have one of my own if I want to. I go to church with my parents every week and I like having contact with God through prayer. I don't see God as a male figure, but as a figure with a male and female side. Heaven and Hell are spiritual places that can't be fully described with the words we know. State and church can and do affect each other, they never were completely seperated form each other (here in the Netherlands there even are a few religion-based political parties).

[animagusurreal]

...State and church can and do affect each other, they never were completely seperated form each other (here in the Netherlands there even are a few religion-based political parties).

What's interesting is that, according to Wikipedia,

The Netherlands is currently one of the most secular countries in the world. About 39% of the population is religiously affiliated and in 2010 fewer than 5.6% visited religious services regularly (once or more per month).

Whereas here in the U.S., where the Establishment Clause does separate church from state,

According to a 2014 survey, 70.6% of adults identified themselves as Christian...

and

...56% of Americans said that religion played a "very important role in their lives", a far higher figure than that of any other wealthy nation.

[R.A.Blackpaws]

Eclectic Pagan here, formerly Wisconsin Synod Lutheran.

I've read several versions of the Bible both in school (Lutheran schooling) and voluntarily (read: bored, curious, searching for answers).

I believe religion is a personal choice and should NOT be incorporated into public schooling.

I also believe in an afterlife and a heaven (been there once, was very peaceful but empty).

My religious views are just that: MINE. I do not force my religion on others because I know that everyone has their own spiritual path to follow/not follow and that their path may differ from mine. I respect that and people's right to their own religious beliefs or lack thereof.

[Michen_S]

What's interesting is that, according to Wikipedia,

The Netherlands is currently one of the most secular countries in the world. About 39% of the population is religiously affiliated and in 2010 fewer than 5.6% visited religious services regularly (once or more per month).

Whereas here in the U.S., where the Establishment Clause does separate church from state,

According to a 2014 survey, 70.6% of adults identified themselves as Christian...

and

...56% of Americans said that religion played a "very important role in their lives", a far higher figure than that of any other wealthy nation.

That's the first time I heard numbers that high. I honestly suspected the numbers would be a lot lower.

Anyways, I don't know anything about the Establishment Clause. Still, I dare to say the state and the church affect each other in the US. The inhabitant's religion and how religion affects those people's lives affects voting behaviour to a certain degree. Some actions from the US state, including the president, affects churches (like the legalisation of gay marriage, for example). From my perspective you can never disconnect state and church entirely no matter how much you try.

[Varg the wanderer]

From my perspective you can never disconnect state and church entirely no matter how much you try.[/color]

I would argue that you cannot disconnect people's religion from the state. As you stated, what people believe will reflect strongly in how they vote. However, there should never be an official church of the government. That is what is intended by the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."

-Amendment 1, US Constitution

Again, just to clarify, Thomas Jefferson explained the first amendment in a letter to the Baptists:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

(You can find the whole thing here: https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html)

Another interesting comment was made by Robert Heinlein (Engineer and renown SciFi writer):

"Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so."

I believe that prayer should be allowed in school, however, that it should not be taught.

In my high school biology class, when approaching the touchy subject of evolution, the teacher let us know that were were learning the evidence found in the world around us, and what others have concluded based on it, and why. What we make of it is up to us, but we still needed to learn what was presented in nature.

[Michen_S]

I would argue that you cannot disconnect people's religion from the state. As you stated, what people believe will reflect strongly in how they vote. However, there should never be an official church of the government. That is what is intended by the first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion; or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."

-Amendment 1, US Constitution

Again, just to clarify, Thomas Jefferson explained the first amendment in a letter to the Baptists:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

Okay, I see what you mean now. So the amendment stops the state entirely from directly influencing the church in the US. I might've understood something wrong, sorry if I did.

[Varg the wanderer]

No need to apologize. It's a fairly common misconception. I thought the same thing until my dad schooled me on it.

[Old Rabbit]

Religion is a powerful force upon many people. So believers sometimes feel
it's for the good of man and country to follow it. Even to deny the natural
rights of others for the good of their soul.

Because of this the first amendment is attacked over and over by people of
strong beliefs. So we have to be careful to not fall prey to those who would
change our country to fit their own beliefs. They forget it's our rights that
allow them push their ideas no matter how good or bad they are.

Our founders had first hand knowledge of monarchs, and religous control. So
they knew what problems a state religion would ccause. Imagine the factions
fighting for control. Telling people how to live. There would not have been any
freedom with a religion controlling the country.