Author Topic: AMD Â or pentium (Read 8092 times)

naquadria · « **on:** December 14, 2003, 11:48:47 pm »

I wasn't sure where exactly to post this so I just put it here.

I'm getting a new computer in a couple of days and I was wondering which type would be better.

AMD XP3200 Â or Â P4 3.2Ghz

just wondering what everyone thinks.

'>

Sabu · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2003, 12:53:10 am »

On this forum, there lies the description

general furry discussion
Purrs, meows, barks... whatever! Keep it furry

Where there is in fact no forum dedicated to the discussion of processing acronyms, one may presume that such questions may not entirely fit the general theme of the forums and should be taken to a location in which they will, in your specific situation somewhere devoted to the costructive argument of which acronym is better

Lexington the wolf · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2003, 12:57:36 am »

I wish I could be of help to you Naq, but I can't.
I have no idea what the difference between the two are.

naquadria · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:04:24 am »

Quote (Sabu @ Dec. 14 2003, 9:53 pm)

Where there is in fact no forum dedicated to the discussion of processing acronyms, one may presume that such questions may not entirely fit the general theme of the forums and should be taken to a location in which they will, in your specific situation somewhere devoted to the costructive argument of which acronym is better

I guess your right..

Someone can go ahead and remove this topic then.

Kale · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:15:22 am »

Well, according to various people on another forum, the athalon XP isnt as fast as its model number... if i was you I'd go with the pentium

This is MHO and ohters may have better ones

Benjamin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:21:21 am »

We do have a forum called "Furry Tech Talk" here for the err... computer babble and whatnot.

I'm moving this thread to that community riiiiiight.......... now.

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*moved*

Benjamin

naquadria · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:28:08 am »

Hmm... I forgot about that. sorry.

WhiteShepherd · « **Reply #7 on:** December 15, 2003, 02:31:23 am »

Hey naquadria don't worry about it! Â Furtopia is not a naval gunship and you don't have to walk the plank. Â As long as individuals are nice and try that's what counts. Just have fun and enjoy. Â

General is just that "general" a lot of stuff fits in there and if there is a better place you may of overlooked a staff often moves it. Â

Just remember never feel bad for asking a question in good faith.

Now onto your question. Â Myself I have always liked the Athlon from the perspective your dolar goes farther there (you get more speed for the same $$

'>. Â Now if money is not an issue gamers so far tend to favor the P4 with it's 800Mzh front side bus seems to give the TOP p4 a edge over the TOP Athlon. Â But that is if money is not a factor.

Also with costs you have two things to keep in mind there is the "high" end then you have the "bleeding edge". Â "high" end is the fastest platform at the best value for your buck (Big 12 point buck setps out

'> ). Â The bleeding edge (some users have to get) is the fastest at the moment and at a premium price of usialy 2-3x cost of "high end". Â It also usialy devalues to "high end" in 3-6 months. Â

Most users end up buying "high end" and use the money saved to keep their system updates for several years.

Myself I am upgrading all our servers to Athlon chips. Â Good performance and a good price.

If you are a major gammer you should also remember Video card and RAM is just as important as important as CPU speed (if not more important in some cases). Â Right now the ATI's rule. Â I have also been spoiled by the 2 monitors those cards support. Â YES 2 monitors to your one system. Â Once you start using two monitors you'll never wany to go back. Â It's quite useful. Â When you get ram for you system make sure they install CL2 RAM (the CL rating is based on the timings/speed of your RAM). Â Many places will try and install the cheaper CL2.5+ RAM. Â Your CPU must stop when it is accessing memory so going with CL2 RAM will gain you an extra %20+ system performance. Â Your CPU must also stop to address ANY IO so the faster your Video Card and Hard Drive is will also give you a boost to system performance as well. Â

There are a few key things to remember if you want the "best". Â Otherwise most vendors will swap you cheaper stuff (more money in their pockets) on a pre-built unless you specificly ask for the "good stuff".

I'm a major deal hunter. Â So with a better idea of what you want I can point you to a few suggestions for complete systems or parts (to build your own).

Kada-Ru · « **Reply #8 on:** December 15, 2003, 02:43:10 am »

Don't fret, naquadria. As was mentioned by Benjamin and WS, if we see a topic that should be elsewhere, staff can move it easily. It doesn't show any wrong doing on the part of the creator. None of us are perfect and there will be times when we need a little help.

So, if you want to start ANY type of topic, feel free to do so. If we feel it belongs some where else on these forums, staff can easily move them as was stated.

(smiles and gives you a friendly hug)

About your question? Well, I don't know enough about computers to answer you. I let WS make all those decisions!

Good luck on whatever system you get!

naquadria · « **Reply #9 on:** December 15, 2003, 03:10:36 am »

Quote (WhiteShepherd @ Dec. 14 2003, 11:31 pm)

I'm a major deal hunter. Â So with a better idea of what you want I can point you to a few suggestions for complete systems or parts (to build your own).

I was looking on tigerdirect.com Â for parts so I could put together my own computer.

I was thinking either a P4 Â or an AMD with 1Gb PC3200 Â DDR RAM. Â 120Gb hard drive , Â radeon 9800 card. Â

I am some what of a gamer though so maby I should get the P4.

I pretty much know all the other parts I need

P.S what is cl2 ram and how would I recognize it

Firebreath · « **Reply #10 on:** December 15, 2003, 10:04:29 am »

Depends on your needs. As WS mentionned, Athlon is better bang-for-buck, but P4 has all that megahertz yumminess.

But let's understand how it works tho. The Athlon has a lower clock speed, but the K7 microarchitecture is slightly more advanced than Intel's P6. That basically means that your 2.08 Ghz Athlon goes nearly as fast as a 2.8 Ghz P4.

Personally, I'm an AMD certified reseller. I do not own a shop, and with time I lost my contacts, but I can easily say that Athlon is the way to go for most home systems. If you want raw power, then P4 is where your heart should be.
The problem with the P4 though is the incredible amount of "CPU bubbles", or unused cycles, in the processor. That basically means that you get many of those megahertz that are not being used, thanks to a design flaw.
But since then, this flaw has been addressed, and from it spawned the Hyper Threading tehnology. Because that's basically how they fixed the problem.

So, if you want a P4, get one with HT otherwise, you'll end up with a slower system than the one advertised (salesmen will NEVER tell you this tho... I would know... I work at Staples as a computer salesman), thanks to the high-ranking folks at Intel.

Now, if you are a special case, such as me, it really depends on your needs. If you do mostly real-time stuff, such as games, then again, P4 is the way to go since it's got raw power.
But if you need that computer for work and calculations, such as Photoshop or 3D animation, then Athlon is the way to go, unless you get a multiple-CPU system.

The only reason why I didn't go Athlon in my dual system is because they run hot. One is already bad enough for most towers, two is overkill. Add a good video card in that, and you're in for a personal heater for your room.
That's why I favored the P4 XEON over the Athlon MP for my workstation. Simply for reliability issues.

And as far as video card goes, go with ATi. NVidia has been found guilty of uneffective driver optimizations that only boost the numbers in benchmarking and increasing framerate in games by reducing visual quality. ATi has great performance for the price. Personally, as a great bargain,I suggest the 9600 PRO. That's what I got, and at 229$CAN, it's quite the deal for the performance it gives, seriously...

And it's nearly on par with NVidia's top in many cases as well. ^^

In any case, it's really a matter of judging your needs and buy accordingly.

Cesarin · « **Reply #11 on:** December 15, 2003, 10:09:25 am »

AMD:
PROS: better FPU, price, good for normal stuff and common gaming. they have more cache than pentium 4
CONS: frontside bus is limited at 266/333/400 on the XP models, not very good at graphics (lack of SS2 )

P4:
PROS: very fast graphics, very wide FSB (800 MHz )
can use rambus memory and DDR
CONS: awful FPU, small cache, overpriced (some pentium 4 are almost 2X times the price of an athlon, specially on high end )

AMD beats p4 in most of the stuff, except when we reach the 3 Ghz.
pentium 4 gets better (PC magazine reviews) at 3 Ghz
specially in its extreme version. (unless you get the athlon FX

'> )

remember AMD cuantispeed technology will have less real MHz than the p4, but its codes are much efficient.

Darius Greywind · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2003, 12:33:54 pm »

Just to throw my $.02 in. Rambus is generally considered uninteresting nowadays. The only chipset still supporting it is the horribly obsolete 850 chipset. Add to that it's latency issues, and the large price margin over DDR memory, and the fact that noone has managed to show benchmarks proving that Rambus is actually all that much faster than good DDR ram, and it's pretty much a lost cause. I don't even want to get into the political issues of supporting such a company. Lets just say I have major issues with a company that exists solely to litigate patent claims. *glares at SCO too*

Chaz_wolf · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2003, 01:05:53 pm »

Just to add my own thoughts..

I was an Intell and AMD reseller... and personaly I only use AMD better Price and Speed for most use..

The only good thing on the intell is the HyperThreading.. and as has already been stated.. thats a fix.

another thing to consider is OS.. your OS must support all the features of your processor / mainboard or you are just waisting money.

Your folfy
Chaz

WhiteShepherd · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2003, 06:48:22 pm »

Most reputable places that sell RAM put the "cl" rating somewhere in the description. Â Sometimes it is in the model description other times it is in the main description. Â Look closely as if it's not listed then 95% chance you are getting Cl2.5 or worse which will slow your CPU down.

An example would be here: http://www.ec.kingston.com/shop....1G Â
Look closely at the "Detailed Specifications" for that RAM and you will see the CL2 rating.

If you go Athlon (a general good CPU) then get a Asus brand motherboard. Â I have been building systems for well over a decade and even though they are a little more expensive the quality of their boards are better (a LOT of how stable your system will be is based on the quality and drivers of your motherboard and Asus has over all good quality boards/drivers).

When choosing a motherboard you will come across motherboards made with one of three chipsets (VIA, SIS, and nForce2). Â The NForce2 is the best performer.

I recommend the Asus A7N8X-X motherboard as a good choice and well priced.
Bellow is a link: Â
http://www.5oclock.com/Online....85MB1KB

If you are buying a monitor/printer/scanner then buy it at a local store (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc). Â These places offer 3 yrs extended warrantee and those three items are the most common item to go bad just after a year.

If you can get your hard drive through a store that sells a extended warrantee that is good thing too. Â Most hard drives are now only warrantied 1 year unless you buy an extended through your seller or drive maker (Western Digital offers to raise the warrantee to 3 years for a price).

Bellow is a link to a decent 120GB HD that is $69 after rebate. Â Don't forget to extend your warrantee.

'>

http://www.bestbuy.com/site....product

For pricing on a good video card check here:

http://castle.pricewatch.com/search....9800PRO

Go with ATI brand. Â The TV out on the Sapphire is not as good.

If you'd like more ideas or a good price on something feel free to ask.

'>

Cesarin · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2003, 07:13:06 pm »

hercules is a good brand too, but more expensive than the usual.

also AMD vs pentium is like
performance and price vs stability

WhiteShepherd · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2003, 07:47:49 pm »

Quote

hercules is a good brand too, but more expensive than the usual.

I had a Hercules ET4000 Vsa Local Bus card. Â I remember Hercules used to make cheap and very fast video cards back in the 486 days. That made them popular with the gamers. Â Haven't tried one any time recent though.

Darius Greywind · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2003, 08:03:44 pm »

Hercules is now owned by Guillermot and is used to market their cheap cards in the US. I'd pass on them. Nvidia isn't really making any good graphics chips right now, and their drivers have been having issues. For ATI, I'd stick with the genuine ATI cards, although I've also had good results with PowerColor.

Firebreath · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2003, 08:34:36 pm »

I got a PowerColor Radeon 9600 PRO 128 megs (none of that EZ crap...) OCed at 450/351 and it runs very stable and fine without an added cooler. ^^

I still think it's a great card.

Darius Greywind · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2003, 08:42:37 pm »

Heh. I built a system here with a PowerColor 9200SE. Nice card for $50 that's for sure. It replaced a Geforce 2MX (yuck).

Cesarin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2003, 10:27:39 pm »

i havent had any problems with my hercules 9800 pro
the thing i like about it is..
it as copper heatsinks everywhere..

Firebreath · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2003, 02:16:38 pm »

I remember last week, a customer came to buy a new video card. (I work at staples/business depot, for those who don't know... Computer and business machines salesperson... yuck... anyway...)
I show him our video cards, among them a 9000 AIW, GeForce 5600 FX, 9200, GeForce4 ti4600, etc...
He looks at me and asks me "How much for that 9200?"
"It's 139$ sir." (canadian, of course.

'>)
"I saw it for 79$ in another store, does that mean that you can sell it to me with your price guarantee?"
"Well, do you have a proof of that price sir?"
"Sure." *hands me a sheet of paper from the computer store on the other side of the street*
"Sir... it's not the same video card..."
"Of course it is! Look at the numbers!"
"I am sir. The card we have in store is a 9200. The one you are showing me is a 9200SE. It's not the same thing."
"Of course it is! The numbers are the same!"
"You know cars sir?"
"Yes, it's a passion of mine!"
"Good. So, here, you are basically telling me that a Mustang GT is the same price as of a base Mustang."
"Of course not! The first one has a V6 and the second has a V8! Much more powerful!"
"And the 9200SE is the standard mustang and the card in the showcase is the GT version."
"Oh... so the numbers are not correct?"
"Compare it to the mustang sir. Same car, different engine. Same here. Same card, different chip."
"Oh..."
"Guessed as much..."

In short:
9200SE and 9600EZ are NOT for me or people who can't make the difference between the two.

'>

Darius Greywind · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2003, 02:31:08 pm »

Yeah, the SE does kinda make a bit of difference doesnt it? One thing that annoys the heck outta me though, is how different retail stores deliberately carry different obscure brands and then try to claim that one generic taiwanese video card is actually somehow different from another generic taiwanese video card. Best Buy is frequently guilty of this. I suppose that its partly ATI's fault for confusing the issue, since they used to deliberately sell OEMs crappier chips than the ones on their retail cards.