25+ people killed at elementary school!

[Amy]

Deleted.

[Ryffnah]

That thought has been catching wind. It is very popular and might pass if the momentum keeps up. Even Morgan Freeman said something about it.

I Googled it to read it, turns out it's fake.

Morgan Freeman statement on Connecticut shootings a hoax
http://blogs.ajc.com/the-buzz/2012/12/17/morgan-freeman-statement-on-connecticut-shootings-a-hoax/?icid=buzzlink

That might be fake, but Mike Resnick (a prominent science fiction writer) wrote a blog post about that idea after the last big event like this.

[Ryffnah]

Deleted also.

[Amy]

I'm.... Slightly confused now. O-o

I don't mean to be... uhm... whatever you just said >~< sorry..

[Amy]

Okay.... reading back, I see Kobuk's post — I hadn't earlier. I'll blank out my post, sorry.

[Tom_]

On the whole gun control thing... That's pointless, because it won't solve anything. What we need is more funding for mental health care and perhaps some emotional advertisements that will encourage mentally ill people and their families to receive help. Controlling guns is silly, because guns are nothing in comparison to some other things that a killer can use.


On that note, I think you might want to ignore all of what I just said, I'm a notorious ranter... What happened is truly sickening and sad, especially because the shooter took the easy way out and eliminated any possibility of closure for the families of the deceased.

A simple thought experiment:  there are two worlds, one where guns are so common that they can be found lying on the street, are kept available on every restaurant table with the salt and pepper, etc. and another world where guns are so completely controlled that they are all locked in boxes with padlocks to which no one has the keys at all times.  Which world will have more people being shot by guns?

Unless you truly think that these worlds would have equal amounts of gun violence, you don't actually think that gun control is pointless.  Which means that you're being disingenuous here.  What you actually mean is that you think that gun control beyond a certain point doesn't make enough difference to be worth the costs and that you suspect that you would pick a lower point where that happens than the people that you're talking to, so you want to force the issue by exaggerating your beliefs.  That's not spiffy.

Edit:  apologies for coming back to this topic.  I wouldn't raise it if the people being defensive about how great guns are would stop bringing it up first, but it really bugs me when people get special benefits because they break the rules -- in this case, getting the last (or only) word by bringing up a topic that we've been told to leave alone.

It's not the death count, but the people who die. If someone wants to do a shooting like this or pull off an assassination, they will get a hold of a gun. Making them common just allows people who live somewhere where a form of reliable self defense is needed have that security. Granted, this does raise gang violence, but that is not the point of this instance. The point of this one is premediated shootings

[Rocket T. Coyote]

^{Almost as many die on the streets of Chicago in turf wars each week, but the lamestream media ignores it.}

It saddens me greatly that so many died in this tragedy, but I am also outraged that politicians are using this as an opportunity to advance their pet causes, none of which will remedy the real problem.

_{Connecticut ranks 5th in the nation for tough gun laws, according to the Brady Campaign btw.}

[Ryffnah]

^{Almost as many die on the streets of Chicago in turf wars each week, but the lamestream media ignores it.}

It saddens me greatly that so many died in this tragedy, but I am also outraged that politicians are using this as an opportunity to advance their pet causes, none of which will remedy the real problem.

_{Connecticut ranks 5th in the nation for tough gun laws, according to the Brady Campaign btw.}

As far as I know, there aren't any politicians on Furtopia pushing their pet causes for gun control on this thread.  I do see a lot of people arguing against theoretical politicians (who if they're here are lurking and haven't posted anything).  And, overall, it looks to me like a shocking lack of respect coming from the gun lovers out there for the request that people not turn this thread into a debate about gun control.  I'm going to go back and delete my post in response to Amy because -- after looking back at the thread and seeing that request, apparently -- Amy's post was properly and respectfully deleted.  For now though (as long as the other comments remain), I'm going to leave this thought:  in the wake of a tragedy like the recent one is a shockingly distasteful and disrespectful time to go around telling people just how important guns are.  If a friend's mother was run over by a car, I hope that you'd have the good sense to say, "Condolences on your loss" instead of "Well, cars are really, really important, and you better not take my car away!"

[Acton]

I just learned a huge differences between The Connecticut Elementary shooting and  the Clackamas Mall shooting. In the Clackamas mall shooting there was an arm law abiding person with a conceal carry permit who confronted the shooter.  It possible being confronted led the shooter to flee and kill himself.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html


We do not  need more gun laws but more  rational armed citizens.

do the mall  cops have guns?

I known  to go the the Sanrio Surprise store  or a rare lunch  at the Clackamas  Town Center after church, I never seen armed patrols at Clackamas or any malls in the Portland Metro area.

[phoenixwolf]

If the mall had armed guards i think the shooter would have not have choosen to go there.

[Rocket T. Coyote]

Gun Free Zones=Safe Crime Workspace.

More Guns=Less Crime ~Prof. John R. Lott, Jr.

[Arashi_Calunata]

If you heavily restrict guns, for the civilians, which is essentially what they are doing, then the wrong people would be getting the guns, which would be the crazed criminals. Police can't stop everything. Besides, even with gun restriction, and assuming none of the murderers out there had access to said weaponry, one can kill just as easily with a bow ad arrow, knife, rock, animal bone, or fist. I'm not saying gun control isn't an option; But gun registration isn't going to work, since that's the Government's first order of business. If you were a homicidal maniac with a gun collection, would YOU register your guns? And nevermind the fact, that if we do get rid of the second amendment because of this, it STILL won't solve gun issues, and we'd have given away one of our constitutional rights as Americans.

In any case, and my apologies for the political thing I just said, my heart goes out to the family and friends of the deceased.

[McMajik]

one can kill just as easily with a bow ad arrow, knife, rock, animal bone, or fist.

No you can't. You can also kill with them, but not even close to "just as easily," that's kindof the point of guns. >.>

Also, there's a thread on this subject in the debate forum

[Arashi_Calunata]

The end result is the same, McMajik. Besides, I don't even have access to that part of the forum, and although I'm thinking of joining it. I'm all for a good argument, but that's not something mentally healthy for me at the moment. Although you are correct, it isn't as easy. Anyways, I meant "One can still kill with these".

But this shouldn't be an argument about gun control, it should be about mental health help. So these thing's won't happen in the first place.

[Mylo]

The end result is the same, McMajik. Besides, I don't even have access to that part of the forum, and although I'm thinking of joining it. I'm all for a good argument, but that's not something mentally healthy for me at the moment. Although you are correct, it isn't as easy. Anyways, I meant "One can still kill with these".

But this shouldn't be an argument about gun control, it should be about mental health help. So these thing's won't happen in the first place.

Here is the link to the topic in the debate forum when you do get access to it and if you want to continue discussion on this topic: http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?topic=45219.0

[Jacoby Quinn]

my answer to full on gun control (as in guns do not exist anymore)
look at mongolia, people don't need guns to kill people brutally and in cold blood

No you can't. You can also kill with them, but not even close to "just as easily," that's kindof the point of guns. >.>

Also, there's a thread on this subject in the debate forum

so if i came at you with a knife, you could stop me? it is easy to disarm a gunman, even at 10 feet, but how many people actually know how?

if i was a lunatic i could take a sledgehammer or a car through the school and how many people know how to stop me?

A simple thought experiment:  there are two worlds, one where guns are so common that they can be found lying on the street, are kept available on every restaurant table with the salt and pepper, etc. and another world where guns are so completely controlled that they are all locked in boxes with padlocks to which no one has the keys at all times.  Which world will have more people being shot by guns?

this is an easy answer, the second one has less GUN violence but wait a minute....didn't gruesome mass killings exist before guns?

mongolia

[Mylo]

my answer to full on gun control (as in guns do not exist anymore)
look at mongolia, people don't need guns to kill people brutally and in cold blood

No you can't. You can also kill with them, but not even close to "just as easily," that's kindof the point of guns. >.>

Also, there's a thread on this subject in the debate forum

so if i came at you with a knife, you could stop me? it is easy to disarm a gunman, even at 10 feet, but how many people actually know how?

if i was a lunatic i could take a sledgehammer or a car through the school and how many people know how to stop me?

A simple thought experiment:  there are two worlds, one where guns are so common that they can be found lying on the street, are kept available on every restaurant table with the salt and pepper, etc. and another world where guns are so completely controlled that they are all locked in boxes with padlocks to which no one has the keys at all times.  Which world will have more people being shot by guns?

this is an easy answer, the second one has less GUN violence but wait a minute....didn't gruesome mass killings exist before guns?

mongolia

Come on, you quoted the post that said to post in the debate forum if you are going to debate guns.  If you need access, PM a staff member.  Here is the link to the topic on gun control.

[Jacoby Quinn]

sorry, didn't see it