Author Topic: why the drama?  (Read 3901 times)

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Offline typingwithpaws

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why the drama?
« on: March 24, 2013, 03:50:17 am »
I'm not here stirring up trouble if that's what you are thinking...but anyway...

Rescently ive been hanging out with the local bronies as there are way more of them in my area than furries. great bunch of fellows and ive watched the entire first season of MLP so at least i can relate.

What i do not understand is why there is so much....wrong way rubbing between our two fandoms. Every single time i see something to do with bronies i can EASILY relate it to the furry fandom. yet when i suggest this theroy to the local bronies (at least on the local facebook group) they go totally banannas over it  :o

i mean, i got shown the documentary on bronies the other day by the admin, he always invites me 'the local furry embassator' over to stuff about. but the whole time i was watching it the ENTIRE THING just showed a mirrored image of what we as furries deal with. Just that they have a focus point for their creativity.



So the question i ask, CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?  :D
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Offline Natura Wolf

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 05:05:25 am »
I'm a furry and a brony.  As far as I am aware *just my belief*
Bronies are 'technically' a sub-category of furries.

But you see the moment you put a identity or category on something, theres suddenly lines and rules and regions and regulations.
But actually Ive got a post idea now thanks ^^

Offline McMajik

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 07:55:00 am »

So the question i ask, CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?  :D


Nope. Drama is what we do. :p

Offline Shim

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 09:24:23 am »

"WHAT'S THAT? YOU LIKE WALKING, TALKING ANIMALS? THAT'S STUPID, GROSS, AND WEIRD! I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO MY TV SHOW ABOUT CANDY-COLORED PONIES TALKING, SINGING, AND FLYING!"
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 09:26:00 am by Shim »
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Offline Ziel

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 02:15:02 pm »
There always has to be drama when furries are involved. It's just how we roll. At least when you're dealing with the groups as a whole.

I've actually been to a handful of local pony meetups. In a smaller group setting, nobody really seemed to care if one was or wasn't a furry. Granted, I also didn't really make a deal of it or push it at all. It was just kind of an 'oh, okay' kind of reaction and we all continued with whatever we were doing. But bring up the topic of furry around a bunch of bronies online, and they do tend to flock to defend themselves.

I saw the doc, too, and I agree that a lot of it does run completely parallel to the furry fandom. Frankly, you could add a few more tails and fursuits, switch 'pony'/'brony' for 'furry', and then add in a few older attendees since furry has been around a while, and it would be spot on.

At least I've not noticed quite as much drama lately regarding pony stuff around the furry world. When it was first exploding, there was a ton of drama on FA. Arguments between pro- and anti- brony viewpoints were common. A lot of people stopped (or threatened to stop) watching artists who posted anything pony-related to their galleries. At least that seems to have subsided, and people generally just deal with it.

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Offline NeoFur

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 05:02:08 pm »
Ok, my two bits.
I think it's a social stigma thing.
Pure/new bronies assimilated by Fim into the MLP fandom culture  don't want to be associated with furry because of stuff like CSI and zoo.

The old guy watching watching the show and collecting little girl toys rub furries the wrong way. The zoo factor is there too.



Offline Kobuk

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 06:17:58 pm »
Quote
I'm a furry and a brony.  As far as I am aware *just my belief*
Bronies are 'technically' a sub-category of furries.

Are bronies part of the furry fandom? I'm not sure on this. Sure, MLP has talking horses that display some human type qualities and characteristics, but MLP when it originally came to fruitition back in the 1980's was never part of the furry fandom back then to the best of my knowledge. MLP is just a cartoon fad. Eventually, it will die off just like other cartoon fads. I don't believer that it has or ever was part of the furry fandom originally. I think the only reason people associate MLP with being part of the furry fandom is because they believe or want it to be part of the furry fandom simply for no other reason than it has horses that talk and have a few other human-like qualities.
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Offline NeoFur

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 06:51:23 pm »
Quote
I'm a furry and a brony.  As far as I am aware *just my belief*
Bronies are 'technically' a sub-category of furries.

Are bronies part of the furry fandom? I'm not sure on this. Sure, MLP has talking horses that display some human type qualities and characteristics, but MLP when it originally came to fruitition back in the 1980's was never part of the furry fandom back then to the best of my knowledge. MLP is just a cartoon fad. Eventually, it will die off just like other cartoon fads. I don't believer that it has or ever was part of the furry fandom originally. I think the only reason people associate MLP with being part of the furry fandom is because they believe or want it to be part of the furry fandom simply for no other reason than it has horses that talk and have a few other human-like qualities.

You know I never thought of MLP as furry.(that's a good subject for a thread)
Fim just made MLP cool and our fandom gravity is pulling it in.
like Transformers with Botcon, MLP is it's own toy collecting fandom.



Offline Kobuk

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 07:08:54 pm »
Quote
I'm a furry and a brony.  As far as I am aware *just my belief*
Bronies are 'technically' a sub-category of furries.

Are bronies part of the furry fandom? I'm not sure on this. Sure, MLP has talking horses that display some human type qualities and characteristics, but MLP when it originally came to fruitition back in the 1980's was never part of the furry fandom back then to the best of my knowledge. MLP is just a cartoon fad. Eventually, it will die off just like other cartoon fads. I don't believer that it has or ever was part of the furry fandom originally. I think the only reason people associate MLP with being part of the furry fandom is because they believe or want it to be part of the furry fandom simply for no other reason than it has horses that talk and have a few other human-like qualities.

You know I never thought of MLP as furry.(that's a good subject for a thread)
Fim just made MLP cool and our fandom gravity is pulling it in.
like Transformers with Botcon, MLP is it's own toy collecting fandom.



BINGO! That's exactly what it is.
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Offline Ziel

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 08:50:39 pm »
Quote
I'm a furry and a brony.  As far as I am aware *just my belief*
Bronies are 'technically' a sub-category of furries.

Are bronies part of the furry fandom? I'm not sure on this. Sure, MLP has talking horses that display some human type qualities and characteristics, but MLP when it originally came to fruitition back in the 1980's was never part of the furry fandom back then to the best of my knowledge. MLP is just a cartoon fad. Eventually, it will die off just like other cartoon fads. I don't believer that it has or ever was part of the furry fandom originally. I think the only reason people associate MLP with being part of the furry fandom is because they believe or want it to be part of the furry fandom simply for no other reason than it has horses that talk and have a few other human-like qualities.

You know I never thought of MLP as furry.(that's a good subject for a thread)
Fim just made MLP cool and our fandom gravity is pulling it in.
like Transformers with Botcon, MLP is it's own toy collecting fandom.



BINGO! That's exactly what it is.

Ehhh, I'd have to disagree with that. The toys aren't really the focal point.  I feel like a lot of the toy purchases are more to help support the show itself. The fans want the show to continue. The only way that it will is for it to be worth Hasbro's time and money to keep producing new content. There are going to be people who get very much into collecting the toys, sure. But I know that the main reason that I've bought what I have was more for supporting the show than anything else. I'm no collector.

I think it's been mentioned before, but I feel like saying that 'Bronies are furries' is a bit of a misnomer. But I think you could accurately state that MLP is a subset of furry, with MLP also reaching beyond furry as well. The toy collecting side would be something more specific to Bronies that isn't seen quite as much in the furry fandom.

In the end, both are pretty typical internet-based fandoms, hence the similarities between them. MLP just has a single, specific source of core content that it revolves around, with everything else springing from that. Furry is more of a concept than a show/brand/prodcut.

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Offline NeoFur

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 10:20:29 pm »

Ehhh, I'd have to disagree with that. The toys aren't really the focal point.  I feel like a lot of the toy purchases are more to help support the show itself. The fans want the show to continue. The only way that it will is for it to be worth Hasbro's time and money to keep producing new content. There are going to be people who get very much into collecting the toys, sure. But I know that the main reason that I've bought what I have was more for supporting the show than anything else. I'm no collector.

I think it's been mentioned before, but I feel like saying that 'Bronies are furries' is a bit of a misnomer. But I think you could accurately state that MLP is a subset of furry, with MLP also reaching beyond furry as well. The toy collecting side would be something more specific to Bronies that isn't seen quite as much in the furry fandom.

In the end, both are pretty typical internet-based fandoms, hence the similarities between them. MLP just has a single, specific source of core content that it revolves around, with everything else springing from that. Furry is more of a concept than a show/brand/prodcut.

LOL! OMG!  MLP is all about the toys! It was born back in the golden age of the half hour commercial pretending to be a show.

Bronies are new, Fim is gen 4 (kind of Hot Topic)  G1 old school pony collectors ride or die! :o
They were mostly women and their pony forum flame wars are epic.
Hasbro is a toy company first, media seems to be just advertising for them.
A great example is how they treat the Transformers series.



Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 11:04:12 pm »
I can't resist posting my reply to what has been said in this thread, as I fit the labels of My Little Pony collector/customizer/fan and furry pretty well.

In response to the OP:

Furry fandom reached its peak of popularity and was fully recognized as a fandom in the 1980s (source: http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Furry_fandom). It is largely based on anthropomorphic animals featured in sci fi comic series, although the influences of TV and Internet characters are not without merit. In this general (and I mean very general) definition, a furry is an anthropomorphic animal (typically walking, talking and acting human). As adults started furry fandom, there are adult themes with it (what fandom lacks this?? I implore someone to research this for psychology or something), which obviously divides the fandom rather than unite it. In addition, with the advent of the Internet and forums, lots of furries feel the need to express themselves a little too much and take things a little too far (I guess with animal-like qualities all sense of decorum is thrown out the proverbial window), as do all "geeks," "nerds," and "gamers." The term RAGEQUIT comes to mind.

My Little Pony has also been around since the 1980s. MLP began with a giant plastic horse with a brushable mane and tail, a winking eye and a poseable body called My Pretty Pony. After My Pretty Pony was a success, six smaller versions of it in pastel colors made of vinyl plastic were mass produced, thus beginning the franchise/empire dubbed My Little Pony. MLPs were wildly popular with little girls from the 80s until the mid 90s around the world, and several animated films, a few cartoons featuring the ponies, and tons of related merch, including comics from the UK, were made. In the cartoons, MLPs could talk like people, and often had issues that lots of little girls had (marketed directly to their target audience of course). Flash forward to 2003. MLP is relaunched, with an unsuccessful cartoon series yet tons of toys were sold, customized (I started in 05, fyi; http://enchantingcustoms.weebly.com/), and marketed like hotcakes. Internet forums abounded with the MLP relaunch, and most communities are fairly peaceful though not without flame wars and RAGEQUITs of their own. People are people, fans are fans, and diehard fans tend to blow up more often than say the average schmoe. Anyway, back to MLP--in 2010, MLP was yet again relaunched, this time under the creative direction of Lauren Faust (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony).

And this is when the brony culture was born.

Bronies are typically younger men, although a few women enjoy the FiM show (myself included). Bronies are, in my mind, a subset of MLP fans. Some MLP fans are, in turn, also furry fans, although the term is shunned. I think the main reason why furries are looked down upon is because of the negativity inherent in a lot of Internet talk from furries themselves (including the drama). In turn, bronies are just as bad--because of the stigma associated with the word bro. Bros, as the label implies, are "better than you are," fraternity inhabiting jerks (at least that's from my own experiences in SoCal, don't get me started on bros irl...).  Being a bro irl is way better than being a nerd (and furries fall under that category all too well, I am afraid), so ostracizing and bullying follow with each term in kind.

That's why I think bronies react so harshly to furries, at least in some cases--they are still in the high school mindset of "bros are better than nerds." In addition, the more labels you place on someone/yourself, the more likely you are to be attacked/ridiculed/teased/bullied, so I think that may be another reason why bronies refuse to associate with the furry fandom.

As time marches on, it will be interesting to see if bronies hang in there when the G4 line ends, or if they will fizzle out with the show.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:08:03 am by Iara Warriorfeather »
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Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 11:16:04 pm »

"WHAT'S THAT? YOU LIKE WALKING, TALKING ANIMALS? THAT'S STUPID, GROSS, AND WEIRD! I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO MY TV SHOW ABOUT CANDY-COLORED PONIES TALKING, SINGING, AND FLYING!"

Also, this.  :D
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Offline NeoFur

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 11:40:34 pm »
@Iara Warriorfeather: I think FiM will continue as comics.
The fandom will lose a lot when the show gets cut. The creative people will keep the flame going on DA and YouTube.

Offline typingwithpaws

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 01:29:30 am »
the point i am getting at is why can only SOME people in both fandoms take a step back and laugh at themselves?

Myself and the bronie admin can stand back and realise how stupid it is...but niether of us care! i mean heck i'm a furry and i go over to his place just to hang out and let him shove pony stuff in my face. No i'm not a bronie, i dont have that much of an interest in the show but i UNDERSTAND it.

its just that sooooo many people get their back up about it when you try and show them the similarities....its hilarious if you are intending to troll but its silly when you are not.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 04:39:21 am »
Quote
Furry fandom has been around since the 1980s.

No. It's been around a lot longer than that. Going even back into the 70's or maybe 60's. Do some research on Wikifur and you'll see.
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Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 09:49:57 am »
Quote
Furry fandom has been around since the 1980s.

No. It's been around a lot longer than that. Going even back into the 70's or maybe 60's. Do some research on Wikifur and you'll see.

@Kobuk-Modified and the source link has been provided.  (: Also provided links to MLP sites to confirm facts (in case there is any doubt  :P).

@NeoFur-again, it will be interesting to see if what you predict is true. It seems like a lot of the hype is based on the TV show, versus the toy line (what's even more interesting is that both the G4 toyline and the show came out at exactly the same time, versus what happened in the past).

@Typingwithpaws-As I stated before, I think the only reason why there is so much stigma/angst between brony culture and furry fans is the labels and the implied connotations that go with them. Laughing at oneself takes a lot of strength and comfortableness in being who you are and fully accepting it...I think some people in both fandoms can do this, others not so much. It varies from person to person, experience to experience, and I think it depends on your maturity level, your age, and your self esteem. On the whole, I think people tend to take their fandoms way too seriously. But that's just my take.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 10:06:01 am by Iara Warriorfeather »
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Offline Ziel

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 02:54:30 pm »

Ehhh, I'd have to disagree with that. The toys aren't really the focal point.  I feel like a lot of the toy purchases are more to help support the show itself. The fans want the show to continue. The only way that it will is for it to be worth Hasbro's time and money to keep producing new content. There are going to be people who get very much into collecting the toys, sure. But I know that the main reason that I've bought what I have was more for supporting the show than anything else. I'm no collector.

I think it's been mentioned before, but I feel like saying that 'Bronies are furries' is a bit of a misnomer. But I think you could accurately state that MLP is a subset of furry, with MLP also reaching beyond furry as well. The toy collecting side would be something more specific to Bronies that isn't seen quite as much in the furry fandom.

In the end, both are pretty typical internet-based fandoms, hence the similarities between them. MLP just has a single, specific source of core content that it revolves around, with everything else springing from that. Furry is more of a concept than a show/brand/prodcut.

LOL! OMG!  MLP is all about the toys! It was born back in the golden age of the half hour commercial pretending to be a show.

Bronies are new, Fim is gen 4 (kind of Hot Topic)  G1 old school pony collectors ride or die! :o
They were mostly women and their pony forum flame wars are epic.
Hasbro is a toy company first, media seems to be just advertising for them.
A great example is how they treat the Transformers series.


From the viewpoint of the business, yes, the show is all about the toys. But we're talking about the fandom, here. The brony community did not spring up as a group of guys who buy and collect the toys. Rather, it formed because a group of guys watched the show for one reason or another, and discovered that it actually had decent production quality, and that the characters were generally well-made. To say it's a 'toy collecting fandom' is highly inaccurate, given that a good chunk of bronies couldn't care less about the toys.

Like I said, many who have bought the toys bought them more for the sake of supporting the show itself, so that the show can continue, because they like the actual content of the show. I'd be pretty confident in saying that a majority of bronies would not qualify as 'toy collectors'. Hence my disagreement with assessing the fandom as such.

Toy collection is an aspect of the fandom, but the fandom as a whole cannot be summarized into simply being called a 'toy collecting fandom'.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:56:42 pm by Ziel »

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Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 09:10:51 pm »

Ehhh, I'd have to disagree with that. The toys aren't really the focal point.  I feel like a lot of the toy purchases are more to help support the show itself. The fans want the show to continue. The only way that it will is for it to be worth Hasbro's time and money to keep producing new content. There are going to be people who get very much into collecting the toys, sure. But I know that the main reason that I've bought what I have was more for supporting the show than anything else. I'm no collector.

I think it's been mentioned before, but I feel like saying that 'Bronies are furries' is a bit of a misnomer. But I think you could accurately state that MLP is a subset of furry, with MLP also reaching beyond furry as well. The toy collecting side would be something more specific to Bronies that isn't seen quite as much in the furry fandom.


In the end, both are pretty typical internet-based fandoms, hence the similarities between them. MLP just has a single, specific source of core content that it revolves around, with everything else springing from that. Furry is more of a concept than a show/brand/prodcut.

LOL! OMG!  MLP is all about the toys! It was born back in the golden age of the half hour commercial pretending to be a show.

Bronies are new, Fim is gen 4 (kind of Hot Topic)  G1 old school pony collectors ride or die! :o
They were mostly women and their pony forum flame wars are epic.
Hasbro is a toy company first, media seems to be just advertising for them.
A great example is how they treat the Transformers series.


From the viewpoint of the business, yes, the show is all about the toys. But we're talking about the fandom, here. The brony community did not spring up as a group of guys who buy and collect the toys. Rather, it formed because a group of guys watched the show for one reason or another, and discovered that it actually had decent production quality, and that the characters were generally well-made. To say it's a 'toy collecting fandom' is highly inaccurate, given that a good chunk of bronies couldn't care less about the toys.

Like I said, many who have bought the toys bought them more for the sake of supporting the show itself, so that the show can continue, because they like the actual content of the show. I'd be pretty confident in saying that a majority of bronies would not qualify as 'toy collectors'. Hence my disagreement with assessing the fandom as such.

Toy collection is an aspect of the fandom, but the fandom as a whole cannot be summarized into simply being called a 'toy collecting fandom'.

Ziel-I couldn't agree more with you. Bronies are more about the TV show than the toy line, at least that's what I gathered from the short film about them. Likewise, some MLP collectors are also more into the cartoons/TV show/movies than the toys.

NeoFur-Historically, MLP is based on a toy line, but with G4, as I mentioned before, the order of things has been reversed, with the TV show airing around the same time as the toy line itself.
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Offline typingwithpaws

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2013, 03:32:16 am »
there is one more think i'd like to add.

i think both types of fandom dwellers have a slight addiction to 'cute'.

Ive seen in with us furries and also with the bronies, this might attribute as to why we love these 'childish' artforms so much. people like myself also have this...but due to my past life experiences and workplace environment its really hard for me to go all mushy when i see something adorable  :P
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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2013, 07:32:12 am »
there is one more think i'd like to add.

i think both types of fandom dwellers have a slight addiction to 'cute'.

Ive seen in with us furries and also with the bronies, this might attribute as to why we love these 'childish' artforms so much. people like myself also have this...but due to my past life experiences and workplace environment its really hard for me to go all mushy when i see something adorable  :P

LOL

I am also addicted to cute things  (:  Yeah I guess it explains a little in terms of the appeal of talking animals...because oftentimes they are drawn/made in a cutesy kind of way. This can be argued in terms of the adult factor though...
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Offline Aloneness

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2013, 01:38:49 pm »
@Iara Warriorfeather: I think FiM will continue as comics.
The fandom will lose a lot when the show gets cut. The creative people will keep the flame going on DA and YouTube.

Hasn't it already been cut once? ...
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Offline battlechili1

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2013, 11:23:43 pm »

"WHAT'S THAT? YOU LIKE WALKING, TALKING ANIMALS? THAT'S STUPID, GROSS, AND WEIRD! I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO MY TV SHOW ABOUT CANDY-COLORED PONIES TALKING, SINGING, AND FLYING!"
That meme has irritated me for quite some time. Being a brony does not equate to hating on people who don't like them or hating on furries. The meme is an oversimplification. Plus, the part that says "Antibronies" and then the "love and tolerance thing" is kind of off, since pretty much any fandom that is created has someone who hates them, and due to this, whenever a hater appears it tends to anger people. This isn't just bronies.
Most people can't stand it when people don't like them.
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Offline Shim

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2013, 11:25:12 am »
That meme has irritated me for quite some time. Being a brony does not equate to hating on people who don't like them or hating on furries. The meme is an oversimplification. Plus, the part that says "Antibronies" and then the "love and tolerance thing" is kind of off, since pretty much any fandom that is created has someone who hates them, and due to this, whenever a hater appears it tends to anger people. This isn't just bronies.
Most people can't stand it when people don't like them.

I am a frequent poster on the facebook group "Midwest Brony Division". We have over 800 members. Spend a couple of days in there and see what happens. It's better than it was, but people were certainly not very nice to furries when I first joined the group and they can, at times, be the very definition of "LOVE AND TOLERATE, BLAH BLAH BLAH, WE LOVE EVERYONE".

I speak from experience, not from memes somebody else created.
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Offline Iara Warriorfeather

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Re: why the drama?
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2013, 11:32:27 am »

So the question i ask, CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?  :D


Reposting this from the OP!  (:
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