Author Topic: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)  (Read 169 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« on: October 03, 2017, 01:11:23 pm »
In light of the mass shooting in Las Vegas that happened this past Sunday, some members of Congress as well as various celebrities and the public are already talking about more gun control measures. Anyway, here's another thread to debate it if anybody wants to discuss gun control.

But please keep the discussion civil. Thanks.

A few links for further reading:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/guns-maps-las-vegas/index.html

http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/hillary-clinton-asks-supporters-to-stand-up-to-nra-hours-after-las-vegas-shooting

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/chris-murphy-las-vegas-shooting/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/health/nevada-gun-laws-trnd/index.html?sr=fbCNN100217nevada-gun-laws-trnd0655PMStory

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/03/news/gun-sales-las-vegas/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/donald-trump-las-vegas-gun-debate/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html?sr=fbCNN100317us-gun-statistics0825AMStory

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/las-vegas-domestic-terrorism/index.html?sr=fbCNN100217las-vegas-domestic-terrorism1121PMVODtopLink

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/bipartisan-gun-control-policies-majorities/index.html?sr=fbCNN100217bipartisan-gun-control-policies-majorities1145PMStoryLink

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/politics/trump-administration-cuts-domestic-terrorism/index.html?sr=fbCNN100217trump-administration-cuts-domestic-terrorism1108PMVODtopLink

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/gun-laws-slippery-slope/index.html?sr=fbCNN100317gun-laws-slippery-slope0157PMStory

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/opinions/america-lethal-nation-opinion-bergen/index.html




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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 08:21:18 pm »
Guns don't kill people. Not a single gun went off by itself. Not a single round was shot from a gun that wasn't in the hands of a madman. There are millions of gun owners in America. I know a few who have large collections. It's what they like. And in truth their collections are no different than my collection of antique Christmas stuff. Its what I like. Guns are not the reason.

What should be made illegal is the device used to turn a gun into an automatic weapon. This mass shooting is the perfect demonstration of what those devices are meant for.

I am a FIRM believer in mental heath screening for gun ownership. I'm a firm supporter for the registration of certain but not all firearms. I do not support the NRA. Nor will I ever support them.
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 04:54:17 am »
I think the US has some problems, and the encouragement for guns from the NRA is one of them. The chance of deaths is simply too big. If you're very nervous and want to protect yourself, you'd have a fight-, flee- or freeze-reaction. And if you have a fight-reaction and you're used to having a gun on hand, what would instinctively be the first thing you'd do? Right, grab for your gun. Of course this wouldn't end in a mass shooting, but the chance that someone might get shot by accident is signficant. Impulsively shooting is a thing, and it does really happen.

Also, I've heard horror stories of children accidentally shooting and killing themselves or one of their parents when they find a gun and think it's a toy. Guns are dangerous by nature, and not surprisingly, not everyone knows how to use those.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 09:53:14 am »
The shooting at Los Vegas shows laws alone can't stop all shootings. This man
bought his weapons legally. Even the Bump stocks are legal.

We should however  try to  make ownership of guns safer for everyone. With
training, bacground checks, and technoligy to make it harder for someone to
use a stolen firearm. Or an innocent child.

This country needs to address mental illness more. A lot of people have mental
problems that need medication to control. They should be monitored to make sure
they have regular checkups, and given the care they need.
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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 07:09:16 am »

This country needs to address mental illness more. A lot of people have mental
problems that need medication to control. They should be monitored to make sure
they have regular checkups, and given the care they need.

Agree 100%. The worst part about this shooting is that we have no idea if this guy had mental struggles his whole life and went untreated. It is also frustrating to realize just how terrible some people can be, whether their actions were legal or not, rational or not.
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Offline Varg the wanderer

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 06:08:13 pm »

This country needs to address mental illness more. A lot of people have mental
problems that need medication to control. They should be monitored to make sure
they have regular checkups, and given the care they need.

Agree 100%. The worst part about this shooting is that we have no idea if this guy had mental struggles his whole life and went untreated. It is also frustrating to realize just how terrible some people can be, whether their actions were legal or not, rational or not.

He was on a medication with a history of making people behave aggressively as a side effect.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-was-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-months-before-killing/article/2636485

I also think the nation as a whole need to drop the stigma against mental health problems. There are people with struggles I would gladly be in a firefight alongside, but people are so fast to lump everything into "crazy" and "snap at the drop of a hat" that those with problems are very reluctant to get help, even if it's something that could be treated through a simply lifestyle change.

I think the US has some problems, and the encouragement for guns from the NRA is one of them. The chance of deaths is simply too big. If you're very nervous and want to protect yourself, you'd have a fight-, flee- or freeze-reaction. And if you have a fight-reaction and you're used to having a gun on hand, what would instinctively be the first thing you'd do? Right, grab for your gun. Of course this wouldn't end in a mass shooting, but the chance that someone might get shot by accident is significant. Impulsively shooting is a thing, and it does really happen.

Also, I've heard horror stories of children accidentally shooting and killing themselves or one of their parents when they find a gun and think it's a toy. Guns are dangerous by nature, and not surprisingly, not everyone knows how to use those.


Leaving a firearm unattended and unsecured around a minor is a felony in most states.

Also, the NRA is not the be all end all for gun owners. It's the first line of defense for the second amendment, and a lot of people who are assumed to be just like "them" do not agree with many of their policies. In fact, you might be surprised with just how many pro gun people think they need to be drained with the rest of "the swamp".

Also, you make everyone sound impulsive; blindly wielding firearms willy-nilly. People drive recklessly, and kill more people doing so, so I fail to see how that should come back on those people who act responsibly. Also, having a flight or fight instinct that goes to standing your ground is not always a bad thing, and grabbing a weapon does not equate to using the weapon.

Also, a well written article on why Pro-Second Amendment people don't seem to budge on the issue can be found here: http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/6-reasons-right-wing-friend-isnt-coming-side-gun-control/.
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 06:33:46 am »
Leaving a firearm unattended and unsecured around a minor is a felony in most states.

Also, the NRA is not the be all end all for gun owners. It's the first line of defense for the second amendment, and a lot of people who are assumed to be just like "them" do not agree with many of their policies. In fact, you might be surprised with just how many pro gun people think they need to be drained with the rest of "the swamp".

Also, you make everyone sound impulsive; blindly wielding firearms willy-nilly. People drive recklessly, and kill more people doing so, so I fail to see how that should come back on those people who act responsibly. Also, having a flight or fight instinct that goes to standing your ground is not always a bad thing, and grabbing a weapon does not equate to using the weapon.

Also, a well written article on why Pro-Second Amendment people don't seem to budge on the issue can be found here: http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/6-reasons-right-wing-friend-isnt-coming-side-gun-control/.

Yet minors have been able to get their hands on a gun multiple times somehow.

I'm not saying everyone is like that, I'm more worried because it's a very plausible scenario. I'm well aware some only have them with them unloaded to frighten people, but shooting incidents do happen from time to time. That, and I'm not very comforable if I saw someone was carrying a gun around (even though that's partly because I'm not used to that). That each state may decide individually about the background check laws for non-FFL dealers doesn't help.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 09:44:38 am »
A majority of  Americans are fine with sinsible gon control. A friend of
mines son was at a rest stop at night. He saw two guys walking his
way. His  son grabbed a gun he carried with him, and when the two
guys saw the gun they turned around and left. Now there may have
been several reason why those two were walking toward him, but it's
likely he could have been mugged, and possibly killed by those two.

Also it has been shown that when thugs know a store owner carries
a gun, they generally find a safer place to  rob.

This shows there are good reasons to own and carry a gun. The main
thing is knowing how to use a firearm, and the dangers involved. So
many buy a weapon with little or no training or education on safe use
or owonership. The gun often ends up hurting or killing those who
own it. Encluding family members or friends.

We require training and mental competence  to drive a car, and Trucks.
Why not for weapons.  I know many feel if the government knows you
have one they will come to take it away. This may sound like a good
excuse to not register guns. The problem is if your planning to protect
you and your family from a foreign army, government gone bad, or
a mob. Your going to  need a lot more than a gun to survive. You will
need food, water, extra guns and lots of ammo,  and a place to keep
it all, and hide between attacks. Along with many allies and friends.

I think the best way to survive is to get out and work for good
government. So many people set back and fuss when they should
vote, and even run for office or help others to.  A democracy
needs the public involved or it will eventually shift to one where
the public is told what to do, much like it is in Russia.
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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 08:22:52 am »
How is it that the shooter was able to bring all the guns, ammunition, and equipment all the way up to the 32nd floor without anyone batting an eye? How was he able to build the shooting platforms without notice? Why did the security guard Jesus Composte suddenly cancel his scheduled appearance on Hannity? Casinos have more cameras than some high security prisons. Something hasn't risen to the surface to explain these details. The man was wealthy and a licensed pilot, he could have crashed a planeload of explosives into the crowds.
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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 11:50:53 am »
Here we go again. Another terrible shooting event. 25 dead, and many
injured.

Apparently due to a family dispute. This person apparently had a history
of violent actions, and removed from the air force for bad conduct.

Perhaps he and all those who commit violence against others due to an
inability to control their temper should be evaluated. Instead we wait till
they go off and kill people.

A good identifier for unstable people is how they treat animals.   They
strike out against those who can't defend them selves. Encluding women
and kids.

There isn't any perfect answer, but most any person can obtain a fireare
if they really want one. Laws only increase the difficulty.

The GOP is afraid to touch the issue, but congress needs to address the
problem of mental illness, and not ignore it. Educate the public that
mental illness is only a illness, and not treat people who have it like
they are crazy.

In the past we tossed people who acted wierd in mental hospitals
where many were treated like animals. We don't want to repeat that,
but we need to find a way to deal with mental illness. Trump cut
the budget for mental illness. He  blaimed this shooting on mental
illness yet he doesn''t support the care for it. Guns are not going
away so we need to look at the people who kill people.


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Re: Gun Control, Part 2 (Post Las Vegas shooting, 10/1/2017)
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 03:07:55 pm »
The GOP is afraid to touch the issue, but congress needs to address the
problem of mental illness, and not ignore it. Educate the public that
mental illness is only a illness, and not treat people who have it like
they are crazy.

In the past we tossed people who acted wierd in mental hospitals
where many were treated like animals. We don't want to repeat that,
but we need to find a way to deal with mental illness. Trump cut
the budget for mental illness. He  blaimed this shooting on mental
illness yet he doesn''t support the care for it. Guns are not going
away so we need to look at the people who kill people.

Here I will agree with you on healthcare, Old Rabbit. People who have a mental illness are hesitant to seek help for a good reason: people act like anyone who has something even minor is dangerous and unstable, which is a very, very small portion of those who suffer mental and behavior problems. Even those that can hold down a job with treatment often can't get work that will cover treatment and living expenses because of the stigma against them.

I had the pleasure of working with a man over the summer that I'm almost sure is schizophrenic. I don't think he was on any medication, and it sounded like the counselors he was seeing were not good at the best and possibly abusive at the worst. He talked to people the rest of us couldn't see, but he was usually very friendly, always kind, honest, hard working (bit distracted sometimes, but that's understandable), and very peaceful. I really liked the guy, quite frankly, but he's nothing like what people think of when they hear of the disease.

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