Poll

Should Santa Claus be banned from schools?

Yes
1 (11.1%)
No
7 (77.8%)
Undecided.
1 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.  (Read 474 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« on: November 30, 2016, 05:24:16 pm »
I think it's getting ridicuously out of hand how we have to continuously ban various religious characters, holidays, greetings, and sayings, just to appease other ethnic peoples that come to the United States.  >:(
Here's the latest: An Oregon school is banning Santa Claus and/or any other "religious" decorations that may be offensive to others.

http://www.tmj4.com/lifestyle/holiday/santa-claus-banned-from-school-district

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Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 08:22:22 pm »
I'm an atheist, and even I think this is ridiculous. The myth of Santa Claus has religious origins with St. Nicholas, but it's become pretty secularized over the years. The only thing that might be even in the neighborhood of religious indoctrination is the "belief = good, non-belief = bad" message that some Santa-related TV specials have, but I don't see any problem with him appearing in holiday decorations.


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Offline Foxpup

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 08:25:57 pm »
other ethnic peoples that come to the United States.
Wat. I keep telling you, religion is not the same thing as ethnicity. There are plenty of non-white Catholics in America and other countries, and plenty of non-Catholic white people.

This whole country is going to hell in a handbasket.  :goldpissed:
Because it's full of non-Catholics who don't believe in Santa Claus? Yes. That's the reason your country is going to Hell in a handbasket. /sarcasm
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Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2016, 08:48:14 pm »
other ethnic peoples that come to the United States.
Wat. I keep telling you, religion is not the same thing as ethnicity. There are plenty of non-white Catholics in America and other countries, and plenty of non-Catholic white people.

While, as I said above, I don't agree with banning Santa from decorations, I also don't see what it has to do with ethnicity or immigration.


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Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2016, 09:27:33 pm »
Sorry for having three posts in this thread already, I just thought of something else...does this mean Rudolph is also considered a religious symbol? He is part of the team pulling Santa's sleigh, so does that mean a talking, flying reindeer with a glowing nose is an offical part of Christian theology now? And then there was that one weird Rankin-Bass TV movie where Rudolph was best friends with Frosty the Snowman, so I guess that means he and his magic hat are religious symbols as well?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 09:29:29 pm by animagusurreal »


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Offline Foxpup

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2016, 09:58:06 pm »
Sorry for having three posts in this thread already, I just thought of something else...does this mean Rudolph is also considered a religious symbol? He is part of the team pulling Santa's sleigh, so does that mean a talking, flying reindeer with a glowing nose is an offical part of Christian theology now? And then there was that one weird Rankin-Bass TV movie where Rudolph was best friends with Frosty the Snowman, so I guess that means he and his magic hat are religious symbols as well?
No. The difference is that Saint Nick was a real religious figure, though the Protestants don't believe in saints and therefore replaced Santa Claus with the now rarely-seen Kris Kringle, who represents Jesus. Nothing else about Christmas is Christian. It's an entirely secular holiday once you take Santa out of it. The flying reindeer and all the rest of it are modern inventions and these stories are not regarded as canon by any major church.
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Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 01:17:36 am »
Sorry for having three posts in this thread already, I just thought of something else...does this mean Rudolph is also considered a religious symbol? He is part of the team pulling Santa's sleigh, so does that mean a talking, flying reindeer with a glowing nose is an offical part of Christian theology now? And then there was that one weird Rankin-Bass TV movie where Rudolph was best friends with Frosty the Snowman, so I guess that means he and his magic hat are religious symbols as well?
No. The difference is that Saint Nick was a real religious figure, though the Protestants don't believe in saints and therefore replaced Santa Claus with the now rarely-seen Kris Kringle, who represents Jesus. Nothing else about Christmas is Christian. It's an entirely secular holiday once you take Santa out of it. The flying reindeer and all the rest of it are modern inventions and these stories are not regarded as canon by any major church.

Interesting. I always thought Kris Kringle was just another name for Santa Claus. Well, here's the thing - if you have a decoration of Rudolph in the classroom, and one of the kids asks, "Teacher, why does that reindeer have a red nose?" are you allowed to say the bit where Santa asks Rudolph to guide his sleigh? Despite his Christian origins, I think Santa has become just as secular as Rudolph or Frosty. Rankin-Bass has two entirely different TV specials on the origin of Santa - "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town" and the L. Frank Baum-based "Life and Adventures of Santa Claus" - neither of which has anything to do with St. Nicholas. It's important that publicly funded schools don't indoctrinate children into any religion. However, I think you can have a Santa decoration up without doing that. Most modern interpretations of Santa don't resemble St. Nicholas anyway. Now, if the teacher says, "Kids, Santa is awesome because Kirk Cameron told me he beat up people who didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus*," then you've got a problem. (*This is from Cameron's "movie" "Saving Christmas").
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 07:10:30 am by animagusurreal »


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Offline GrayWolf448

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 06:07:52 am »
i am even more disappointment in humanity now... he is barely a religious symbol anymore, so not being allowed at school is really ridiculous.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2016, 10:00:40 am »
So the grinch found that school I guess. It's a shame. Kids and adulds need somehing to feel
good about. Especially during the cold dark days of winter.

I once heard that that each day of the year has at least one religious connection to some following.
So if we tried to please all religions noting would get done. Some holidays were compromises
started by the Romans to merge with Christian beliefs.

It's a shame, but most major holidays  have become more about making money than any other
meaning. If Christmas is to celebrinte Jesus Christs birthday, it should be closer to Easter than
late december.  Easter by the way is another late invention, started by us rabbits.  :D  Seriously
though It's not even found in the Christian bible. Man tied it to the resurrection of Christ. It
began as a fertility celebrtions for spring.

The celebration of giving gifts and the little ole fat elf was mainly started in the 1800's to bring
bamily together.  At first it was mostly just nicely decorated cards peple gave to each other.
The tree was started with the British monarchy who copied it from Germany. The english citizenry
wanted to follow their King and Queens example so there it spread. Who can say how many
homes have been lost due to christmas trees catching fire from candles ontheir branches.
.Followed by hot colored electric colored bulbs in later years. Nice thing about led's they burn
cool.

By the middle of the late 1800's gifts becan showing up under those trees. The santa we know
if I remember right was started with a poem. "The night before christmas." Interprising artists
started putting his picture on cards. So the story of Santa Clause for children was started.

The deer with the red nose was started with a song in the late 1940's

I think it's great we have a holiday like Christmas. Not to make all the money that it does
for merchants, but to give all the smiles the public at large.  We need something to help us
feel good about ourselves and others.

I know many have reason to be sad, but unfortuantly nothing is perfect in this world.
Perhaps that school will feel different one day. Seems our world is changing, I hope for
the better. At least for the generations to come.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 10:13:22 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2016, 08:19:51 pm »
So as I suspected, the whole "they are banning santa" thing is totally overblown.  That's why when I hear something that sounds outrageous, I have to really look into it before I let myself get even a little bit outraged. The vast majority of the time, it's not remotely as outrageous as the headlines might make it sound.

Offline Firelight

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 09:59:30 pm »
I'm glad that their getting a lot of hate on facebook. Santa isn't religious and Christmas is supposed to be festive as all hell!

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2016, 09:29:21 am »
I see now. More of the political correctness at play. I can understand them wanting
to stay away from religious symbols due to the diveristy of beliefs, but I think they
should have did a bit of research on Mr. Clause before giving him religious credit.
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Offline Holt5

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 10:20:01 am »
Given the lack of details I have on the incident I can't pass judgment on this story in particular, but banning things based on the fact that they represent different religious or social beliefs is inherently patronizing to students and does no good whatsoever. The real world is not going to afford you shelter from opposing beliefs - whether you're a Catholic, a Satanist, or an atheist.

Regardless of whether Santa is regarded by some minority of the population as being religious in nature, oh well! I grew up an especially zealous Catholic who, on first discovering the Internet, waged occasional crusades against people who disagreed with my beliefs. I was the guy who corrected people for blaspheming on forums. :D But over time, as I grew up, I realized that it's normal and natural for people to hold different viewpoints, and it's ok to leave it at that. Even if at face value people seem completely polar opposite of what you stand for, they have their own reasons for the stand they take. It's ok to express yourself whoever you are, and you don't have to walk around wondering if you're going to get punished for engaging in activities that are inherent to your culture or your beliefs - including something as passive as Santa Claus.

I still believe in the religion I grew up with, but I don't shove it down others' throats. I don't make a big point of mentioning my religion or expressing it overtly unless asked, but I'm totally cool with people who do - whatever beliefs they hold. Schools cannot do kids any favors by fostering an inability to cope with outside influences.

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Offline animagusurreal

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Re: Oregon school bans Santa Claus.
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2016, 11:12:52 am »
One way that we can tell Santa has been secularized is that we don't hear a lot of complaining when people add to the mythology. Santa has magic and elves and flying reindeer...Tim Allen can turn into Santa after accidentally killing the previous Santa...in the future, Santa can be a robot who lives on Neptune and kills people because his morality standards were set too high...and nobody bats an eye. (Well, I'm sure somebody has a problem with it, but we don't usually hear about it). Whereas, a few years ago, Darren Aranofsky made a film based on the Biblical story of Noah, and some people flipped out because it wasn't "accurate" to the source material. (BTW, I found that movie to be unwatchably horrible, but not for that reason.)


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