Author Topic: American Internet Censorship Bill  (Read 15079 times)

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Offline Mylo

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2011, 08:21:12 pm »
The Internet is too threatening.

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2011, 11:18:13 pm »
…I've yet to find a server, firewall, or filter, government based or otherwise that was successful in denying me access to anything,
And I doubt that this will be any different, inconvenient maybe, but not a show stopper in any way.
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Offline Murkrow

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2011, 11:59:29 pm »
Might as well shut down retail stores, because they are just like websites: linking to copyrighted stuff by advertising.

This never scared me so much...
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I'll meet you there." ~ Owl City

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2011, 03:35:34 am »
Might as well shut down retail stores, because they are just like websites: linking to copyrighted stuff by advertising.

This never scared me so much...
What in the world are you talking about?

Advertisements are contracted agreements between two or more parties.
And stores can freely sell the goods they own, that’s what a retail or business license is for,
As it gives a business permission to sell goods and or services in a given area.

Whether it's a store or a website, what’s going on with the internet has nothing to do with any of that,
I think maybe you misunderstood something in the article.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 03:39:54 am by Storm Fox »
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Offline Murkrow

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2011, 06:40:29 am »
I might have misunderstood something, but many many small shops like thrift stores sell copyrighted stuff. It's like a link to the copyright holder. "omg a my little pony! It's from Hasbro right? I must pot this on Facebook!"

Anyways, if it goes through, that jail spot that's being occupied by a criminal link-poster could've been used for a muderer, or pedophile, or theif, or a REAL criminal who harms the public.
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Offline Mylo

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 11:49:02 am »
As rediculous as I think this law is, the Interent is amplifying the situation too quickly. Shutting down a major site like YouTube would be a PR nightmare for anyone that does it.

And to anyone who knows, how long can a Senate hold last?

Offline Storm Fox

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 07:25:28 pm »
And to anyone who knows, how long can a Senate hold last?

Quote from: Wikipedia.org
A "hold" is placed when the leader's office is notified that a senator intends to object to a request for unanimous consent from the Senate to consider or pass a measure. A hold may be placed for any reason and can be lifted by a senator at any time. A senator may place a hold simply to review a bill, to negotiate changes to the bill, or to kill the bill. A bill can be held for as long as the senator who objects to the bill wishes to block its consideration.

Basically, there is no limit… though there are ways to overcome a hold, but I don't know much about that, or how it works.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 07:28:33 pm by Storm Fox »
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 11:00:54 pm »
I talked to Weisseman about it, and he assures me that since this law is not in effect yet, and may well never be in effect (if the SOPA bill doesn't pass), I am in fact allowed to talk about ways around it, despite what Kobuk says.

Quote
****Post edited/removed by WhiteShepherd****

WhiteShepherd-> First Foxpup I am not so much against WHAT you are saying as how you said it which is disrespectful towards Kobuk.  Mods may disagree in opinion on if something is right/wrong but we do stand up for each other and demand respect maintained for all MODs period.

In the future the best way to handle a dispute (in case you did not know) is if a mod makes a decision you feel is incorrect ask "another" mod for a vote on the decision (this is a member right).  A vote will be taken among the mods and that decision is "final" on any outcome.

To you Foxpup as far as your post I have always been against censorship and have a history.  I received many threats (legal and physical) because Furtopia hosted art that individuals did not like and therefor was not art (opinion).

As a programer I can say your "fix" previously posted will not work because the new renditions of the bill require ISPs to "reroute" actual banned IPs of domains.  But it is little worry.  If this atrocity passes proxy technology will only jump forward like it has in the past.  Furthermore some big money names (Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Microsoft) is lobbying strongly against the bill and big money is the only vote that counts in Washington.  So rather than put the cart before the horse lets keep the thread on topic and discuss what you agree/disagree with this specific bill.   IF the bill makes it into law then a new "on topic" discussion can be made on what possible things can be done?

   WhiteShepherd
 


« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:53:55 pm by WhiteShepherd »
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Offline Acton

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2011, 02:10:32 pm »
Check out the Wikipedia article: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

"The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (November 2011)"

as much as the anti- Online Piracy Act
The short answer is yes can support this act. I had read the bill and do not see any reference to censorship unless one it trafficking ie infringing the copyright of the rightful user.

I always have a strong uncompromising capitalist very of intellectual property rights and a very strong sense of individual and Christian morality.. The rights belong excursively to the owner; the owner has the final authority of distribution  and used. NO EXCEPTIONS.  The owners can ether charge for the use or give away.  To violate the ownership of the media is theft, simply THOU SHALL NOT STEAL. !
Yes it might make had on some because take out your YouTube  video because of copyright issues my answer do use copyright material or get permission the first place. or find free or royalty free options.

This issue is came home when a few of my pictures were used without my authorization, it way I invoke a creative common 3.0 license.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2011, 05:05:16 pm »
If Congress and all these artists and big name corporations really wanted to stop piracy and such, then they'd stop sending all American goods, jobs, etc. overseas to China and other third world countries where everything is now manufactured.  >:( That's part of the problem right there. ;)
All it takes is for someone to copy/steal the blueprints to something or swipe something right off the assembly line, etc. and then sell it on the black market and distribute it to other unscrupulous parties.
So if there's anybody to blame for this mess, It's ourselves for selling out our own country.  :P
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Offline Alsek

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2011, 05:58:46 pm »
If Congress and all these artists and big name corporations really wanted to stop piracy and such, then they'd stop sending all American goods, jobs, etc. overseas to China and other third world countries where everything is now manufactured.  >:( That's part of the problem right there. ;)
All it takes is for someone to copy/steal the blueprints to something or swipe something right off the assembly line, etc. and then sell it on the black market and distribute it to other unscrupulous parties.
So if there's anybody to blame for this mess, It's ourselves for selling out our own country.  :P


On Jobs:

Congress doesn't technically send american jobs anywhere... But whether you believe in capitalism or not,  it does exist on a global level,  and international corporations will go where currency is stable,  and where taxes are low.  So in a way,  they are making our country a bad place for corporations to invest with high taxes and ever inflating currency.  I think it's unrealistic to think that they'd invest somewhere that's not financially a wise place to invest. It would only prevent them from effectively competing in their markets when they have to raise prices to cover costs.  So,  in reality,  i'd agree, they are.


Stop wasteful spending,  cut taxes,   stop inflating currency = a better place for corporations to invest =  private sector jobs




Check out the Wikipedia article: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

"The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (November 2011)"

as much as the anti- Online Piracy Act
The short answer is yes can support this act. I had read the bill and do not see any reference to censorship unless one it trafficking ie infringing the copyright of the rightful user.

I always have a strong uncompromising capitalist very of intellectual property rights and a very strong sense of individual and Christian morality.. The rights belong excursively to the owner; the owner has the final authority of distribution  and used. NO EXCEPTIONS.  The owners can ether charge for the use or give away.  To violate the ownership of the media is theft, simply THOU SHALL NOT STEAL. !
Yes it might make had on some because take out your YouTube  video because of copyright issues my answer do use copyright material or get permission the first place. or find free or royalty free options.

This issue is came home when a few of my pictures were used without my authorization, it way I invoke a creative common 3.0 license.


Copyright laws already exist.  They could just enforce existing laws.  Instead,  they're trying to regulate and control something they don't understand in the name of specific special interests who are notoriously bad at adapting to new technologies.

Offline Yip

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2011, 07:21:26 pm »
Why was this moved to the adult section? This doesn't seem in any way like a strictly adult topic.
Anyways...

I honestly don't see how something like this could possibly stand.
 
For years these companies have tried to get rid of piracy, but the fact is all they really accomplish is make things harder for legitimate users. Instead of fighting it so hard, which is extremely ineffective, they should grow with the technology. I think people in general want to support those that make the content they like. And the internet makes business models based on that more effective than ever. iTunes and Steam are great examples of that. If you make it easy and inexpensive for people to legally purchase content they like, they will.

How do they get the figures for how much they supposedly lose though piracy? I find those figured questionable at best. For one thing, I don't see where they could possibly collect accurate data on that, and for another, people that are getting the content through piracy are not necessarily going to buy the content from them if the other means are removed.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2011, 07:35:00 pm »
Quote
Why was this moved to the adult section? This doesn't seem in any way like a strictly adult topic.
Anyways...

Because of the content posted by Foxpup in post # 32, I have discussed this thread with another staff person and we have agreed to move it here as the content posted by Foxpup should not be viewable by younger members in the open forums. Any further questions or concerns can be sent via PM.
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2011, 07:37:37 pm »
as much as the anti- Online Piracy Act
The short answer is yes can support this act. I had read the bill and do not see any reference to censorship unless one it trafficking ie infringing the copyright of the rightful user.

I always have a strong uncompromising capitalist very of intellectual property rights and a very strong sense of individual and Christian morality.. The rights belong excursively to the owner; the owner has the final authority of distribution  and used. NO EXCEPTIONS.  The owners can ether charge for the use or give away.  To violate the ownership of the media is theft, simply THOU SHALL NOT STEAL. !
No, no, no, no, no, no. The owner does not have the final authority of distribution and use. One fairly huge exception (at least as it applies to this discussion) is fair use. Fair use, as we all know, is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement, meaning you can't claim it until after you've been indicted, at which point the judge dismisses your case if he/she agrees with you. Even if we accept the questionable premise that copyright violation = theft, people accused of theft get taken to court where they have a chance to prove their innocence or explain their actions. But that doesn't happen with this bill. With this bill, copyright owners can just shut down site before the courts ever enter the picture. If the courts later decide that you weren't violating copyright and what you were doing was fair use all along, well that's just too bad. Your site got shut down anyway.

Yes it might make had on some because take out your YouTube  video because of copyright issues my answer do use copyright material or get permission the first place. or find free or royalty free options.

This issue is came home when a few of my pictures were used without my authorization, it way I invoke a creative common 3.0 license.
You're talking about the company that took down a video of a dancing baby because there was copyright music playing in the background. Fair use and totally legal, but apparently nobody cares about such trifling details.
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Offline Storm Fox

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2011, 02:30:43 am »
In regards to Foxpup’s post (Reply #32) I don’t think that is going to work anymore.

Read → http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57328045-281/sopas-latest-threat-ip-blocking-privacy-busting-packet-inspection/

With the actual IP blocked, that self DNS method won’t work, of course there’s always foreign proxies, (as well as other methods, which can't be named here).

But basically it looks as if this is getting worse, though maybe we’ll all get lucky with the bill getting so ridiculous,
That the proponents of the bill wind up killing it themselves by making it more and more absurd.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 02:41:44 am by Storm Fox »
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Offline Foxpup

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2011, 03:23:28 am »
In regards to Foxpup’s post (Reply #32) I don’t think that is going to work anymore.

Read → http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57328045-281/sopas-latest-threat-ip-blocking-privacy-busting-packet-inspection/

With the actual IP blocked, that self DNS method won’t work, of course there’s always foreign proxies, (as well as other methods, which can't be named here).

But basically it looks as if this is getting worse, though maybe we’ll all get lucky with the bill getting so ridiculous,
That the proponents of the bill wind up killing it themselves by making it more and more absurd.

There's also Tor, Freenet, I2P, and of course having a dial-up account with a foreign ISP gives you uncensored (if ridiculously slow and expensive) Internet from anywhere with a phone line. Then there are the other methods...
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Offline Avan

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2011, 07:38:32 pm »
Why do they even bother?

I just know anon will have a field day with this, and they'll (MAFIAA & Co) get what's coming to them for their folly.

In other news, the sales of popcorn over the internet are expected to rise...
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Offline Mylo

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2011, 08:00:00 pm »
If you want to keep up with the hearing today, check out this live video: http://www.keepthewebopen.com/sopa

Offline Alsek

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Offline Mylo

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2012, 01:33:42 am »
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/30/will-google-amazon-and-facebook-blackout-net/

Awesome.

Vote against SOPA or no more Google!
Come on...this is as insane as nuclear war. If any politician had the nerve to shut down a site with the equivalent user base of Google, Facebook, or Amazon, they'd be out of office. I don't understand how inconveniencing their users would solve anything.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2012, 01:50:46 am »
When sites as big and popular as those start shutting down, it'll show congress two things. 1) Just how much power they have on the net (especially Google), and 2) People will get very upset at the lack of net functionality and start blowing up the U.S. capitol switchboard to protest the bill until congress abandons it to get the net back.
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Offline Mylo

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2012, 02:02:30 am »
When sites as big and popular as those start shutting down, it'll show congress two things. 1) Just how much power they have on the net (especially Google), and 2) People will get very upset at the lack of net functionality and start blowing up the U.S. capitol switchboard to protest the bill until congress abandons it to get the net back.

So first it was money. Now, it's user base.

Offline Avan

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2012, 09:52:23 am »
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/30/will-google-amazon-and-facebook-blackout-net/

Awesome.

Vote against SOPA or no more Google!
Come on...this is as insane as nuclear war. If any politician had the nerve to shut down a site with the equivalent user base of Google, Facebook, or Amazon, they'd be out of office. I don't understand how inconveniencing their users would solve anything.
Well, its not merely about them (though they could be on the receiving end of fallout of sites being blacklisted, as well as the likelihood of restrictions being placed on search engines (Though I suspect google will openly defy them, being google)), and its not the politicians themselves who are shutting down sites either. Although I hope the blackout will not be necessary, I will support it if it comes to it. The blackout is easily reversed should SOPA not go through; repealing SOPA if it passes would be a vastly longer processes, and not guaranteed. As "nuclear options" go, this is a rather convenient one for Google & Co, saddling the politicians with the real burden.

The MAFIAA also needs to be disbanded, permanently. They've been the largest source of these stupid bills, and their disconnection from reality is really inconveniencing everyone. Or at least they could do us the favor of over-spending on campaign funding and lawyers, resulting in them shriveling up and dying due to bankruptcy. Oh, how I'd love for something they push for to blow up in a nuclear failsplosion in their face, shaming them for the whole world to see, permanently destroying any credibility they somehow manage to maintain.
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Offline Acton

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2012, 04:04:36 pm »
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/12/30/will-google-amazon-and-facebook-blackout-net/

Awesome.

Vote against SOPA or no more Google!
Come on...this is as insane as nuclear war. If any politician had the nerve to shut down a site with the equivalent user base of Google, Facebook, or Amazon, they'd be out of office. I don't understand how inconveniencing their users would solve anything.
IIts worst; I getting tired of misinformation and panic of the anti-SOPA folks.  The  of the largest myths are that it will break the internet and it censorship.  The internet will be fine I fell it will not affect the DNS or physical of the net. The only sites that will be affected are those who are violation of copy right laws. Google and Ebay would come around and change   their TOS before being forced to close.   Second it is not censorship since it is the copyright owner not the Government to initialize the complaint. People  will still be free to produce political speech but there not right to unauthorized  use without  permission, furthermore some  like Time Warner and Viacom will be strict  others like  Hub(?) (Think My Little Pony   ) and Funimation will be more relaxed.  It will be the holder not government who decides  to pursue legal action against foreign   websites.

Offline Chiscringle

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Re: American Internet Censorship Bill
« Reply #49 on: January 04, 2012, 07:57:51 pm »
Bringing up MLP, that's a large chunk of FA down for a start if they decide to get tough later on.

Congress has the duty to protect copyright holders, yes.  There is also the need to promote and protect freedom.  It is true that there is a lot of piracy, but there is also a great deal of harmless fan work that probably helps the things they are fans of and yet are also likely to be shut down and suppressed because the companies involved will rightly decide that it's in their interests to shut down everything.  They don't have the time to be careful and its better to go too far than not far enough in these cases.  The biggest issue isn't even that, though.  From what I understand, SOPA will have a lot of collateral damage.  It won't break the internet, but it will diminish it a great deal as the content providers are forced to take the same attitude as the companies.  They profit more by an automated destruction with collateral damage to the innocent than to be careful.  The reason Google exists is because careful indexing is impossible.  If the spiders have to be instructed in SOPA, they'll be told to block everything that even looks like infringement.

I don't think Google will do that.  The others can be cowed but if it comes to it, I expect Google will run a much better funded lobby right back to have the thing dropped.  They have the populist and material strength to do it.  The issue isn't the right of the individual vs. that of the corporation.  It's a matter of moderation.  Then again, a Congress willing to abolish due process isn't very moderate.
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