Poll

Who's to blame: The Gov't or the common people?

The Government.
3 (21.4%)
The citizens.
1 (7.1%)
Both Gov't and citizens.
6 (42.9%)
Undecided.
2 (14.3%)
Other option. Please describe.
2 (14.3%)
Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.  (Read 4048 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« on: December 13, 2010, 02:30:51 pm »
From time to time either on the news or from a topic on the Furtopia forums or somewhere else, I'll often hear how our freedoms and rights are being slowly taken away because of something bad that happened or due to something else.
Granted, governments may have to suspend or even fully take away certain rights and freedoms during times of war, crisis, natural disaster, etc. The terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001 is a good example.

But I have to wonder..........Is also the common citizen also to blame for our rights and freedoms being taken away? Is the regular people more to blame than what governments are? People tend to whine and complain about all sorts of things on a city, State, and Federal level. We talk, petition, complain, etc. to special interest groups, lobbyists, our politicians about what we want, Don't want, Like, and Don't like. And all our complaints and critisisms get heard, surveyed, voted on, made into bills and laws, etc. From my POV, The gov't is just a "tool" used by the people to get what we want. Although granted, we might not get everything we want, but the people usually do try.

So next time you look in the mirror to comb your hair or brush your teeth, Ask yourself the following: Am I to blame for my own rights and freedoms being taken away from me?
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Offline Alsek

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 02:58:18 pm »
Both

The government doesn't have the right to take away any of our rights in any situation.  They exist to be used in the extreme situations.  We have freedom of speech,  and the right to bear arms.  Not the freedom to speak and bear arms only when the government says it's okay.  That is the entire point.  Post hurricane Katrina, the national guard was deployed on United States soil with orders to go door to door and confiscate firearms.  This was when everyone was acting the craziest and looters were out of control.  If there was ever a time when an American citizen would actually need a firearm to defend their homes and families...  it's while looters are acting crazy and are running amok.  During the time they were needed the most,  they were taken away.
 
That being said,  the Americans are extremely indifferent.  Sure we'll complain...  We'll have our tea parties and whine about things for a little while.  With enough time people just settle down and let things go.

It's up to the people to keep things in check.  It's up to the government to not ruin them in the first place.  Neither are doing their part in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:02:43 pm by Alsek »

Offline Mooshi

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 04:01:58 pm »
Religion, government, political correctness, us

Religion is fine for those who believe, but it also takes away your freedom. You're a slave to the one you worship. You must follow holy law or be sinning. For some it equates to minor annoyances such as annoying other people with Jesus. Other cases it's more dangerous as with Islamamic law. In my definition of freedom, throwing yourself at a god does not equal freedom.

Government is needed no matter how evil it is. The problem is the corruption. Government should only be there to keep crime in check and build park benches. Instead they frequently break their own laws. Often times, they spy on us. A working government can be a good thing, unfortunetly, many of them simply don't work. Freedoms are stripped while the top are immune.

Political correctness is a tool that divides us. Someone over-sensative whines like a baby and then before you know it, more freedoms are stripped away. We're forced to use PC terms or we are being "offensive" If someone black gets into a conflict with any other race, it's a "hate crime" instead of crime. Riiiight..

Us - we're the ones who created and put up with this bullcrap. We give government their power through election, we created religion, we insist on putting up with political correctness and we're too cowardly to do any thing about what is right if our own well being is on the line.

Offline Sk Skunk

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 08:17:11 pm »
I have to say both. The government is the tool? Maybe we are the tools, or at least the useful idiots. We are our own worse enemy. People keep voting in the same professional politicians. While congress has rated poorly for years, many incumbents keep getting reelected. Politicians promise things they know cannot be delivered. As long as there is an appearance of helping the people, they can smile, or fake anger and all is well. One party pushes actions that are for the common good, and the other party screams bloody murder. Switch the parties in  power, and little changes, only the direction of the insults. In the end, the good old boys and girls have a laugh at our expense. We get the government we deserve. So many people don't care. The ones that do, get fed up with the process and give up.

"Tin Foil Hat Alert!" Maybe that's what "they" want. Distract the people that that don't care, drive the others away. Or even worse, set the people against each other, so no one knows what is really going on.

I have for some time told people to try to pay attention to what is not being talked about. Don't watch the bear on the unicycle juggling the plates. Watch the guy standing off to the side. Pay attention to ideas that you don't agree with, listen to both sides of an argument. As hard as it can be, don't let your feelings totally control your opinions, use your head and your heart. Never give up!
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 10:07:30 am »
I think it is a "team" effort. I mean, politicians may be taking decisions but after all it's population who appointed them there in the first place. Having this kind of government is a citizen choice too and the citizen effort does make for various changes in the world. It's not only the high and mighty politician taking choices, but there's the movement of the population to account for.
So I say it's both of them
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Offline Yip

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 02:00:08 pm »
I disagree with the basic premise behind this poll. It just asserts that "freedoms and rights are being taken away". I don't think things are nearly so simple as that. Yes, you can point to areas where this occurs, but you can also point to areas where rights and freedoms have been gained.

The one area I'd point to where are rights and freedoms are the most threatened, is not due to the government itself. It's with regards to the separation of church and state where often the citizens seem to be actually pushing for the government to overstep it's bounds, and fight every step of the way people try to get the government back out of areas it doesn't belong. It's insane.
(of course, I'm talking about in the US. Things may be different in other countries)

Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2010, 02:16:32 am »
As far as lobbyists/special interests go, people have a right to assemble and do so  for common interests. The average person doesn't have much impact alone, but a lobbyist can convey the message of many like-minded individuals to lawmakers. The knowledge that significant numbers of constituents are paying attention keeps the lawmaker on his toes. So lobbyists/special interests aren't always bad things.

Ultimately, it is the government which infringes upon the rights of the people. Through bureaucrats which no one elected, government can impose fines, fees and restrictions. Look at the issue of fireworks as an example.

Government is there to serve the people, not the other way 'round.
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Offline Arbutus

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2010, 11:28:42 pm »
I just wanted to mention that my friend got me a Disappearing Civil Liberties Mug for Christmas. It has the Bill of Rights printed on the outside, but when you pour a hot cup of tea into it, all the amendments disappear. :D

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 11:37:41 pm »
I just wanted to mention that my friend got me a Disappearing Civil Liberties Mug for Christmas. It has the Bill of Rights printed on the outside, but when you pour a hot cup of tea into it, all the amendments disappear. :D

*pours hot carrot tea into Arbutus and watches him disappear*  :D
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Offline Arbutus

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2010, 11:43:53 pm »
Carrot tea? Good lord, how have I been missing this all my life? No, wait, stop making me disappear! I need to drink the carrot tea!

Offline Alsek

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 12:13:04 am »
As it turns out,   Kobuk is responsible.   :'(

Offline Mooshi

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 04:05:55 am »
Arbutus...having fun messing with all the hex codes? Bet that little post took you forever to work out, but it was brilliant all the same. :D

I would like to point out that no matter how much big brother is trying to take over, the USA is still more free than other nations. In some countries, so much as saying anything negative about the government can cost you your life. This is something many of us overlook, including myself. This doesn't mean we should be content because our government is still a far cry from what it was intended to be. The sooner we boot out the crooks known as Democrats and Republicans, the better. This country should be lead in a way that makes this nation a shining beacon once again and not some political party that panders to a base.

Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2010, 10:05:10 pm »
Blames the carrot broth for pending legislation against the sale and possession of assault beverages.  :goldhowl:
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Offline Varg the wanderer

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2010, 10:49:14 pm »
The ignorance and apathy of people to elect officials that do follow nor care about the Constitution and only see it as a road block. The laziness of the people to elect officials that promis them hand outs, to take care of them, and to "look out" for them (because apparently we are to stupid to know what we want and what is good for ourselves, so we need laws to force what is deemed "good" by someone else on us). And the indifference of people towards their freedoms that they enjoy, the effect they have on their welfare, and the fact that they take both rare and hard earned things for granted enough to throw them away at the bat of an eye.

The politicians, for their dishonesty to try and "buy" voters by pouring federal tax dollars into state and district projects that have no buisness with the federal government. The bureaucrats who thing that through whatever alphabet soup agency they belong to, that they have the power to pass laws without the approval nor process of Congress (TSA, FCC). To the politicians who seek power and wealth instead of the will of the people; they think they are ABOVE those who elected them, and know better.
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2011, 07:59:13 pm »
I just wanted to ask... is carrot tea a real thing? >>;
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Offline Fenny the Fox

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Re: Freedoms and Rights being taken away.
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 08:34:07 pm »
I think it is a "team" effort. I mean, politicians may be taking decisions but after all it's population who appointed them there in the first place. Having this kind of government is a citizen choice too and the citizen effort does make for various changes in the world. It's not only the high and mighty politician taking choices, but there's the movement of the population to account for.
So I say it's both of them

Going to say I agree with this statement, and since it is concise, I will simply second it.

I disagree with the basic premise behind this poll. It just asserts that "freedoms and rights are being taken away". I don't think things are nearly so simple as that. Yes, you can point to areas where this occurs, but you can also point to areas where rights and freedoms have been gained.

The one area I'd point to where are rights and freedoms are the most threatened, is not due to the government itself. It's with regards to the separation of church and state where often the citizens seem to be actually pushing for the government to overstep it's bounds, and fight every step of the way people try to get the government back out of areas it doesn't belong. It's insane.
(of course, I'm talking about in the US. Things may be different in other countries)

In the overall, rights are being gained in some areas, and lost in others. So, each area is a separate issue and usually with a separate cause from each other.

But I agree about Church and State. It is generally a group of citizens that are hardest pushing for the overstepping of bounds and therefore limiting of the rights in this case.
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