Author Topic: Do Gods exist?  (Read 5247 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chiscringle

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 173
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2013, 05:29:23 am »
People have acted in the name of the gods for centuries.  An effect cannot be without cause, so from that perspective, the gods must exist in some form.  A concept that can have such a strong tangible effect is something to be respected.

I wish I could read the Old Testament in its original because I'd like to be clear on the phraseology of the Commandments.  Didn't he say 'I am A jealous God'?  Suggesting that the God of Israel was claiming dominion but not that he was the only one?

I will say this about the current People of the Book: their genesis is a pretty good approximation.  Darkness, light, heaven, Earth covered in water, Earth with land, whales, people.  Correct order.  Plus what with all those stars falling from the heavens.  Plenty of stars in the universe have gone out.


I just wonder where they all went.  Whenever people get around to writing these things down, things have quieted so there aren't any more miracles or prophets.  Sort of a cop-out.  Except Saint Patrick.  That man was a frigging wizard.
My quad: Thrakmon

Wizard lynx: Loramendi

Main furry story: Kindle Store

FA: Chiscringle

Offline Aakosir

  • Hero Member
  • In Vino Veritas
  • *****
  • Female
  • Posts: 510
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2013, 09:44:43 am »
Or to rephrase you question does polytheism (multiple gods exist) or Pantheism and or Animism exist.
My answer as a Christian is no and I do not.

Isaiah 44:6-8 (English Standard Version)


6 Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
    and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
I am the first and I am the last;
    besides me there is no god.
7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.
    Let him declare and set it before me,
since I appointed an ancient people.
    Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
8 Fear not, nor be afraid;
    have I not told you from of old and declared it?
    And you are my witnesses!
Is there a God besides me?
    There is no Rock; I know not any.

But many Christians, when praying, pray to "The Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Are these not three different entities? If they were the same then why the need to name them all three differently?
My FA

I come and I go

Offline Yip

  • Species: vulpes vulpes
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 4005
    • Furaffinity
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2013, 11:23:28 am »
People have acted in the name of the gods for centuries.  An effect cannot be without cause, so from that perspective, the gods must exist in some form.  A concept that can have such a strong tangible effect is something to be respected.
All that shows is that gods exist as a concept. I don't think anyone is denying that believers exist. But so what? I don't see why a concept that is wrong should be respected, especially a concept that causes so much harm. For example, people have long pointed to demon possession as the cause when they encountered mental disorders. This sort of belief does nothing to help the afflicted individual and respecting this belief stands in the way of them receiving help.

Quote
I will say this about the current People of the Book: their genesis is a pretty good approximation.  Darkness, light, heaven, Earth covered in water, Earth with land, whales, people.  Correct order.  Plus what with all those stars falling from the heavens.  Plenty of stars in the universe have gone out.
Darkness, light (which apparently doesn't need a source), the firmament (a concept of the sky as a solid structure. An idea that is sorely incorrect), Earth covered in water, Earth with land, plants on the land (which is listed as before ANY animals, even ones of the sea; thus it's not the correct order), the Sun (having this so late in the order is almost comically wrong because it's wrong for so many reasons) the moon (called the lesser of two "great lights" despite the fact that it doesn't produce light) and the stars (listed as almost an afterthought. Yeah... like the things that formed all the complex molecules were not important to the formation of things as they are now), animals (all at once), and then man (as in an individual man, not the species), then woman (again an individual).  This contains many many things out of order, and shows a clear lack of understanding of how things actually happened. Now you can point to things that are in somewhat the correct order, but so what? The authors in the ancient time it was written where not completely stupid. This sort of list is exactly what one would expect from something that is made up to fill in the gaps of knowledge.

Quote
I just wonder where they all went.  Whenever people get around to writing these things down, things have quieted so there aren't any more miracles or prophets.
People have gained a better ability to communicate and record events and science has given us a better ability to tell what's actually happening, thus things that once would pass for a miracle no longer do and it's much easier to tell that so called prophets are full of crap.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 02:14:06 am by Vararam »

Offline Kobuk

  • The "Malamute Dewd"
  • Hero Member
  • Species: Anthro Alaskan Malamute (Husky)
  • #1 Dew drinker.
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 27484
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 11:46:51 am »

 People have gained a better ability to communicate and record events and science has given us a better ability to tell what's actually happening, thus things that once would pass for a miracle no longer do and it's much easier to tell that so called prophets are full of ****.

Watch the language, please. No self-censoring. ;)
Click link below for more fursuit information. ;)
http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/

Offline WhiteShepherd

  • furtopia.org Sysop!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4768
    • http://www.whiteshepherd.furtopia.org
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2013, 12:34:55 am »
I think it's easy to talk yourself into a rigid box.  God/s do/don't exist because....  Bacteria didn't exist until the microscope and was highly argued against with as much passion.  From a philosophy standpoint I find it interesting how many believers and nonbelievers fall into the same hard stance.  I see this coming from western style of religious thinking.  IE two sides of the same coin.  There is no evidence because it HAS to be that way or I would know by now.

Myself I find myself in the Agnostic group.  I'm not sure with what evidence I've gathered to make a definitive decision.  But being able to view other cultures besides just western I feel this gives me some insight on what is truly possible.  As an example when I was younger I lived on the Standing Rock reservation for several months.  The traditional culture there believes in spirits.  IE when a person dies their spirit lives on and they can sometimes still affect us.  In my time there I went from being a skeptic to seriously curious about these beliefs.  In the times I was there I (and others) saw balls of light traveling around, forms of people, a boy go into a sweat lodge with a broken leg and come out healed, and me and a group of people even watched MY shoes dance across the room for 2-3 min (nobody was in them) right after I talked about spirits to another person. 

For myself I knew what I witnessed couldn't be from common causes.  Something was doing these things but what?  I consider spirits or a complex electromagnetic life form that we rarely interact with and can mimic from our thoughts?  I can easily see others seeing these spirits/beings as gods.

Paranormal research is just starting to take off with some good collected evidence.  There is a lot of bad out there too.  But there have been some fantastic photographic evidence taken that shows yet again our world may be more uncomfortably complex than we thought it would be.  The uncomfortable hence such often heated polarized debate. 

I also got to say for me I have a renewed faith that their may well be a God (perhaps or perhaps not as a exact christian standard).  For myself if I have evidence of spirits/beings existing as an electromagnetic force then how can I say for %100 it would not be possible for one of these to actually have identified itself as God to others?  Interesting things to think about? :)

  WhiteShepherd
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span =''><!--Quot

Offline Mylo

  • *
  • Posts: 4761
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 02:11:34 am »
Interesting things to think about? :)

Yes, interesting things to think about.

Offline Yip

  • Species: vulpes vulpes
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 4005
    • Furaffinity
Re: Do Gods exist?
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2013, 03:28:23 am »
I think it's easy to talk yourself into a rigid box.  God/s do/don't exist because....  Bacteria didn't exist until the microscope and was highly argued against with as much passion.  From a philosophy standpoint I find it interesting how many believers and nonbelievers fall into the same hard stance.
Fewer non-believers fall into that then you probably think.

People with unfounded beliefs of all kinds tend to be extremely sensitive about those beliefs being challenged, so to them the skeptic may seem unreasonable, when in fact it's the skeptic that is the reasonable one. The fact is, when you have good solid evidence on your side, you are naturally going to be more rigid in your belief but with good reason. It's those that hold rigid beliefs without having good evidence to back it up that are being unreasonable. So while they may both take a hard stance, it's not the SAME hard stance because one is reasonable while the other is not.

Paranormal research is just starting to take off with some good collected evidence.  There is a lot of bad out there too.  But there have been some fantastic photographic evidence taken that shows yet again our world may be more uncomfortably complex than we thought it would be.  The uncomfortable hence such often heated polarized debate.
You seem to be miscategorizing here. While it's true that unskeptical individuals tend to get uncomfortable with things being more complex then they thought, this is not at all what you generally find in the scientific community. What scientific types tend to get heated over is people trying to push ideas that don't have sufficient evidence to back them up. If you can reliably demonstrate that this alleged complexity is there, then the science community will embrace it. If paranormal research really has "good collected evidence" then they should be able to demonstrate it. And so far with those that have tried, it has always been found faulty or at the very least inconclusive. (hint: inconclusive is not a sign of good evidence.)

Again: The time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence to support it, and not a moment before.