Author Topic: Illegal Immigration.  (Read 2626 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Illegal Immigration.
« on: March 20, 2013, 12:11:49 pm »
What should or can be done, if anything, to prevent illegal immigration? Should current U.S. laws be more rigorously enforced and/or expanded, or should they be "lightened up" a bit to allow people to come and go as they please? And what about illegal immigration in other countries? How should that be handled?


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Offline Acton

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 01:20:54 pm »
As a libertarian  (sympathetic  Objectivist ) minded person, immigration can not be classified as illegal because or right is granted  by the Creator, not based on ethnicity or nation origin,  and does not infringe on the rights of others.

The founding fathers have it right  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

This would include the right of trade with others and migration in a  free market system. If a person wants to come to this country and a business want to hire him  it not for others to prohibit trade.  Much  of the restrictions since the 1920's are based on race, and populist notion that violate the principles of individual liberty. furthermore  more to  declare something illegal it must violate the principals  of   Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness of another individual, as such there is no victim who rights are infringed upon therefore I can not see how this can be declared illegal.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 08:39:20 pm by Acton »

Offline Foxpup

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 08:06:52 pm »
What Acton said.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 12:19:16 am »
I don't really understand why immigration is illegal in the US. After all, this country was built on immigration.

Offline Mylo

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 12:32:36 am »
I do believe that there should be an easier path to citizenship for people wanting to come to the United States, but at the same time, there is still illegal immigration.  I suppose one of the reasons is taxes.  Illegal immigration is an especially big issue if you are living in South Texas.  Let's just say I hear a lot of stories from border patrol agents, and it can really go both ways.  It's a matter of balancing ease of citizenship with the probability of exploitation, etc...

Offline Alsek

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2013, 04:45:09 am »
Acton,  i actually fully understand your point of view and even agree with it somewhat in theory.  That's the ideal direction we would want to do someday.  However,  the federal government's main purpose of existence is to protect the borders from foreign threats. (rather than starting wars with every third world country not capable of launching an ICBM because they didn't sound America friendly)  That is under their constitutional power.  It's one of the things they're actually /supposed/ to do.

My personal take is that citizenship should be an easier process,  and that we ought to do a much,  MUCH better job of getting people into the country.  But,  at the same time,  the boarder is the most dangerous place in our country right now.  Mexico is rampant with drug corruption.  Cities on the United states side of the boarder are practically under drug cartel rule.

The other matter is,  while i'm not really for taxation in the first place,  and i hate the IRS and the absurd amount of money they take out of my paycheck as much as anyone else,  the country is in debt and Taxes are a part of our reality.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 04:46:41 am by Alsek »

Offline Aakosir

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 06:39:58 pm »
I don't really understand why immigration is illegal in the US. After all, this country was built on immigration.

I'm pretty sure he is referring to those who cross illegally and do not become registered U.S. citizens or do not have correct paper work (visa, green card, et cetera)

I think the U.S. needs to crack down on the illegal immigrants. Simply because they are taking away money from actual U.S. citizens. They are taking jobs and healthcare. My dad is actually employing a few illegal immigrants right now and pays them under the table... I have a problem with this because they do not exist in this country. They do not pay our taxes. They take and take and give nothing back to the U.S. Same with the healthcare. The hospital and a few other clinics here will take anyone who does not have insurance. You don't even need to speak English! Or have an I.D! Yet their budget is stretched and they don't have time and money to treat the homeless in my county.

Border patrol is a joke. They are armed yet if they are attacked they are not allowed to shoot. If they see someone crossing illegally, they are not allowed to shoot. There are tunnels dug right underneath the border! But guess what... We can't fill them in or raid them even though they are bringing drugs and illegals.

Did anyone hear about that Arizona ranch owner who was allegedly murdered by a bunch of illegals who crossed the border? http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/30/illegal-immigrant-suspected-murder-arizona-rancher/ Now what type of justice can our country provide if this really is true?

If immigrants want to come here fine! But do it the right way. The U.S.'s economy and many citizens are already in a pinch and many more illegal immigrants will just take even more money out that will never be seen again. It is not fair to the U.S. citizens who were born and raised here. It also is not fair to the immigrants who came here legally.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 10:43:16 pm »
I don't really understand why immigration is illegal in the US. After all, this country was built on immigration.

I'm pretty sure he is referring to those who cross illegally and do not become registered U.S. citizens or do not have correct paper work (visa, green card, et cetera)
Yes, I know. Sorry, my statement was worded poorly. Essentially what I was saying is that I think those that wish to immigrate should be allowed to without too much hassle. But you are right, it's more difficult since there are those that want the benefits of living in the US but not the drawbacks (most notably paying taxes).  Yeah... people that abuse the system always make things harder for those that do thing legitimately.

Offline Mylo

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 11:01:50 pm »
Yeah... people that abuse the system always make things harder for those that do thing legitimately.

A thousand times this...  :P

Offline Aakosir

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 12:28:03 pm »
 Yeah... people that abuse the system always make things harder for those that do thing legitimately.

Definitely. And it can be seen every single day.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Illegal Immigration.
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2013, 01:05:04 pm »
Personally I feel it was shortsighted of the supreme court to
grand automatic citizenship to the children born of aliens in this country.
I am sure it was intended to aid legal immigrants, but as we know many
pregnant women come to the U.S. to have their child then return home.

In some cases they come here with no means of support and the states
have to pay the medical costs, and housing for them. It's likely the working
poor here in the U.S. would have no help in the same situation unless the
husband abandoned the home.

I am not saying all aliens are crooks. Life can be hard in third world countries.
It would be hard to not want to come here if one was hungry or sick.

Life can be hard here too, and we shouldn't make our own go without caring
for unwanted guests.

Shows how good or misguided intentions can be abused.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 01:08:27 pm by Old Rabbit »
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