Author Topic: Should we feel national pride?  (Read 3393 times)

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Offline DeltaFur

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Should we feel national pride?
« on: January 13, 2011, 02:10:51 am »
Should we, as citizens of whatever countries we happen to be from, feel pride in having that title? I mean, does it really matter, all that much? I'm a Mexican-American (dual-citizenship, not just genetically/geographically) and I don't really think that it matters where I am from.

Well, it kind of does, when you think about it terms of "If I am from country X, I am probably going to be better off than people from country Y." But that isn't anything to be proud of, is it?

I don't really know what I am trying to say, to be honest, but I think I can sum it up in a few brief sentences: I am a citizen of Earth. I am a human first and an American/Mexican second. Why should it be otherwise? What's the point of nationalism? I see no logical reason for any of it.


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Offline Avan

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 02:23:44 am »
Why should it be otherwise?
:o but what if you don't personally identify as a human?
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Offline DeltaFur

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 02:45:33 am »
Well, you're still a denizen of this Earth.

Wait...
Nevermind.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 05:25:57 am »
I think one should only feel national pride in as much as it's deserved by their country. Don't get me wrong. I love being a U.S. citizen. However, I think one should be careful not to let that slip into blind patriotism. Which it can easily do.

Offline Arbutus

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2011, 07:58:22 am »
I think one should only feel national pride in as much as it's deserved by their country. Don't get me wrong. I love being a U.S. citizen. However, I think one should be careful not to let that slip into blind patriotism. Which it can easily do.

Very much agreed. Though my desire for the thoughtful middle ground goes both ways. I don't see a big difference between blind patriotism and furious criticism of everything one's country/government does - they're both unproductive.

Offline homegrownkodi

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2011, 10:10:23 am »
I personally disagree with national pride, but I also disagree with gay pride, male pride, woman pride, black pride, white pride, furry pride, etc.
This is because (and this is simply personal opinion) I do not feel someone should take pride in something they haven't actually done or achieved.
Such things should be treated with indifference, because when people do start establishing pride in traits that they are born or in a social scene they choose to associate with it does nothing but promote unnecessary division between people. I guess national pride is just for the lazy people who wanna feel special but cannot be bothered to achieve anything themselves. c:
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Offline Fen-Fen

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 10:34:20 am »
I think one should only feel national pride in as much as it's deserved by their country. Don't get me wrong. I love being a U.S. citizen. However, I think one should be careful not to let that slip into blind patriotism. Which it can easily do.

Very much agreed. Though my desire for the thoughtful middle ground goes both ways. I don't see a big difference between blind patriotism and furious criticism of everything one's country/government does - they're both unproductive.

I agree with this. I mean, I like being an American, but I'm not crazily-insane proud to be one, you know? I appreciate the freedoms beings an American brings that other countries don't have. That's as far as I go.

And I also disagree with gay pride or any other kind of pride. Just a personal opinion.
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Offline furtopia02

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 11:17:38 am »
I personally disagree with national pride, but I also disagree with gay pride, male pride, woman pride, black pride, white pride, furry pride, etc.
This is because (and this is simply personal opinion) I do not feel someone should take pride in something they haven't actually done or achieved.

The last bit there.. national pride can be obtained from something you've done to help your country or support its goal or principles. Some examples: working on an election committee to get a candidate you feel will help your country elected, voting, serving in your nations military, being vocal about principles your country supports, helping preserve or restore land in your country, producing farm goods or other material goods to support your nation..  etc   all of those things ARE achieving something and are directly related to the success of your nation. If no one did those things you wouldn't have a country for long. The existence and success of a nation is not some act of god or lottery; its the continual effort of its people and government to keep it afloat and working. Everyone contributing to a successfully operating country should feel proud of their efforts and have national pride if they believe in their country's values and actions. Obviously if you hate your country you shouldn't have to feel national pride.. though if you don't care at all then you should probably find a more suitable country to live in for yourself. If you do care and have pride in your country you should work to help change it into what you want it to be (or at least give it your all to). I think you have to have some care or pride in a country you live in to WANT to change it. Think of it like having self respect or pride in your body: if someone doesn't care about their body or themselves they will often let themselves get very out of shape and wont dress themselves properly because they don't care anymore. If they take pride in themselves though they will want to be their best and look nice for themselves and for others. A country full of people without any national pride will just result in a weak, unsuccessful, unmotivated country that wont last long because no one will care to do anything about its issues or even care of its existence that doesn't do anything worthwhile.

Offline homegrownkodi

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 12:47:50 pm »
Actually Brent... I agree to some extent.
However, you don't need to have pride in something to want to make a difference or put any effort into it. For example, I have no pride in my sexuality, I don't care about it. It is what it is, but that isn't to say I would turn a blind eye or agree with someone who speaks negatively about said sexual orientation. 'cus I would disagree with them, and I would argue against them. I have no desire nor need to express my sexuality, culture or appearence anymore so than I do already by just living.
So I know I do not need to have pride in something to care about it.

This is because pride often leads to lables, stereotypes and prejudice.
People can become so engrossed in national pride and become 'blind with patriotism' as they say.

But, I guess it depends on the nature of the pride. It's one thing to say "I am proud to be {insert any old country or nation here}." and another to stand and say "I am proud of the efforts I and the people of my nation have put into it." or even "I am proud of what the people of my nation have achieved for us."

So, I feel I should retract my earlier statement of "I disagree with national pride." and just stick with me old "Someone shouldn't take pride in themselves for something they haven't done or achieved."
And also, although it's obvious someone should not use pride as a reason to belittle or demonize other individuals or groups. It's obviously possible to have pride in something without thinking less of or feeling superiority over something else.

I feel I took a too narrow perspective on what national pride could mean. Sorry about that. (:
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 12:55:15 pm »
I'm proud to be an American too, but I have a more historical take on it. My idea of pride isn't so much about current events and political views and controls, though they do play a part. I'm mainly proud because of the good things my country has done in the past that have brought us were we are today. I'm not blind into ignoring the bad things as well, but I think the good has outshined the bad in the big picture. I see no problem with being proud of your country. Or maybe being proud of your heritage is more correct, only on a national scale?
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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 01:17:31 pm »
I'm proud to be an American too, but I have a more historical take on it. My idea of pride isn't so much about current events and political views and controls, though they do play a part. I'm mainly proud because of the good things my country has done in the past that have brought us were we are today. I'm not blind into ignoring the bad things as well, but I think the good has outshined the bad in the big picture. I see no problem with being proud of your country. Or maybe being proud of your heritage is more correct, only on a national scale?

I'm kinda in the same boat as Narei. For me, I see it more as historical.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 07:34:37 pm »
Very much agreed. Though my desire for the thoughtful middle ground goes both ways. I don't see a big difference between blind patriotism and furious criticism of everything one's country/government does - they're both unproductive.
I agree.

Also, I am proud to live in a country founded on the idea of e pluribus unum - "Out of many, one". And like it says at the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door."  To me, these are a message that no matter where you are from or what your personal beliefs, we can still live together in peace. And I think that's a very worthy goal. (in fact, that's why I get very annoyed at the whole "Christian Nation" myth. It's like spitting in the face of what this country stands for. But that's another topic.)

I can also see what Fen-Fen is saying. So I guess it really depends on your definition of 'pride'.

Offline DeltaFur

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 12:05:35 am »
I definitely agree with Narei to a great extent. America has accomplished great things and (like Vararam said) it has shown itself as a beacon of freedom and prosperity to millions of people who've had their lives turned upside down because of strife, famine and other things that have harmed them and their families.

However, some people persist in stating (quite loudly, as a matter of fact) that America is the greatest country on Earth. If that wasn't enough illogical thinking, these people have the gall to say that even if they haven't been to any other countries, not even as tourists. I mean, really.
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 03:28:34 am »
I wouldn't say calling anyone's country the "greatest" on Earth is bad. Any country could be the greatest in your opinion, if said country holds your idea of good values, freedoms, millitary, etc. Now saying your country is the greatest just because it's where you live... That's another story, and then I may agree with you.
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Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2011, 04:35:58 pm »
If my country isn't great, then folks wouldn't be risking everything--including their very lives--to get there.
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Offline Sk Skunk

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2011, 06:40:57 pm »
Some national pride can be a good thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU8zyB3W0pU Just for a moment, while there are people from opposite sides of the political spectrum wanting to destroy the other, a crowd at a hockey game got it right. We have many problems, a number of people who are full of hate and violence, but we have the ability to do the right thing.

In a country that has such a wide variety of people, national pride gives everyone something to gather around. When a national identity is disposed of, then you will have people separating themselves into their own groups. It is what people do. This makes it easier to dismiss groups that are not part of your own. I'm not a Scottish-Russian-White-Male-American, just an American from the United States. A hyphen can become a dividing line, IMHO it should be avoided like the plague. You have to get along with your neighbors. When someone moves into another neighborhood, it's fine if you want to remember where you are from. It's even better if you can add to the whole. It's also important to remember that you left for a reason, and should become part of your new home. If you miss your old home, go back and make it a place that others would want to come and be a part of. This goes for what ever nation you call home, or where ever you may end up.

The USA has been called the great melting pot, some want it to be a TV dinner, :P every portion separated by a nice defined edge. It would help if some would be more accepting. Sometimes the stew in the pot needs spice.

I'm also a person of this world. No better or worse than anyone else. In this day and age, we are all neighbors to some extent. For the time being, we are all stuck on this water covered rock. Unfortunately too many people forget this and take things too far. If national pride becomes too strong it makes things like war too easy to accept. This is where ethnic cleansing comes from.


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Offline Mr. Apple

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 04:22:21 pm »
it's all in your opinion. there are people who love their country. there are people who hate their country, and there are those who just don't care. I find it futile to say that everybody should do one thing or the other. simply because there are a lot of standards and ideals out there.
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2011, 07:49:05 pm »
When I get a Canadian citizenship I'll sure feel nationalistic <3 I mean... I like Mexico alright, but I just don't feel too proud of what the culture has turned up to be...
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Offline Yip

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2011, 04:44:32 pm »
I find it futile to say that everybody should do one thing or the other. simply because there are a lot of standards and ideals out there.
True, but there is nothing wrong with saying that people should avoid the extremes at both ends because such extreme stances usually have clear problems (mainly that they are almost never rooted in reality.)

Offline Mr. Apple

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Re: Should we feel national pride?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 11:48:01 pm »
I find it futile to say that everybody should do one thing or the other. simply because there are a lot of standards and ideals out there.
True, but there is nothing wrong with saying that people should avoid the extremes at both ends because such extreme stances usually have clear problems (mainly that they are almost never rooted in reality.)

what's wrong with not being rooted in reality  :P
agreed btw
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