Author Topic: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.  (Read 2379 times)

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #50 on: December 30, 2017, 07:48:35 pm »
Well the results are on my kitchen table. In the end there really isn't a big flavor difference. The biga is slightly sweeter and the sponge is tangier. The smell of each bread matches the aroma of the starters used.  My results have mirrored what others have said. A few have said they could taste a real difference between the two types of starters. However everyone agrees. When you eat the bread with food you can't tell the difference. I would like to point out one very important fact. They both taste great. I'll be doing the sponge method. Or 'poolish' as it's called in France. Just in case you want to sound fancy.  :) Between a biga and sponge the sponge is a lot easier to make.

I've got another bread started. It's my first that's just flour, water, yeast and salt. This will sit in the fridge till Monday. Then the bread will be divided into three or four tubes. Cooked on a baker's stone in the oven. Be great bread to eat with all these Turkey leftovers I've got.

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2017, 11:46:04 am »
I want to clarify something about the dough I have in the fridge. It's already been kneaded. So it's not the normal fridge dough. What I'm doing is called retarding fermentation. That kinda sounds like I'm slowly getting drunk. :D Actually the technique is used to build favor in bread. Much like starting bread with a sponge. When building the dough I only used one teaspoon of yeast. Remember. The longer something is going to ferment the less yeast you use. There is only so much starch in flour. Once the yeast run out of food you end up with a mess.

The recipe for this,
8 cups +/- flour.
3 cups water
1 teaspoon yeast
1 1/2 teaspoon salt.

The bread will cook on a pre heated stone at 450 for anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes. I'll have to use a probe thermometer to test for done. Going to have to find where i read what temp bread is when it's fully cooked. The time depends mostly on both the hydration and shape of the bread. It's all new to me.

The hard truth about baking stones. You can go to most any home improvement store and buy the very same thing you pay big bucks for. 18x18 unglazed travertine. Next choice would be ceramic. You can usually get them one at a time. Wash it up. Make sure it's completely dry and bake away! 

And now a confession. After weeks of bread making I finally tossed out fresh loaves. I added whole grain wheat to the dough. I don't like wheat bread. Honestly thought if I only added one cup to 6 cups of flour it would just lightly flavor the bread. Possible would have worked if I had regular wheat flour. The stuff I got is the stone ground whole wheat. I'll stick to other grains. Like barley, rye and the like when adding flavor to bread.

Live and learn. And do your best to enjoy it all.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2018, 10:45:08 pm »
so how did my little experiment turn out? I made three loaves. Out of the three the last one is the only one that is eatable. I wanted to see how much I've learned. I have a ways to go before I start making my own bread up. The good news is I could make a different loaf of bread every day for years and still not make them all. Guess the world will have to wait for a bread named 'Fluffy Rat Loaf. : )

And I learned something new. Tossing corn meal on a 450 hot stone makes a lot of smoke. When your very old house has no vent over the stove? Well at least it smelt good. : )

I've got two loaves in the oven now. Two more on their final rise before they go in. Both breads are from the same recipe I've been using. Both started with a sponge that was started last night. These will be my bread for the week. To have both here and at work. I'll freeze three of the loaves. I plan on trying a new recipe tomorrow. Haven't picked it out yet. May try a new cookie recipe as well.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2018, 05:37:20 pm »
I think I've talked about the "Baker's Scale" before. it's where you use weights instead of measurements. it's really not that hard to use. What it's really good for is multiplying or dividing a recipe. It's also good for getting precise measurements. So I weighed everything instead of using cups and scoops. What a difference! First I used all the flour the recipe called for. Didn't end up with my usual 1/2 to 1 cup of flour left out. Second the dough was very easy to work with. I got great results quickly when kneading the dough. Now I did this with a recipe I've never tried before. But when comparing both recipes using the baker scale the ratios of the flour to water are the same.

The new recipe I tried called for butter milk. It said I could use four tablespoons of powdered butter milk with one cup of water. That's the rout I took. Can't see buying a jug of this stuff just to have it rot in my icebox. Don't have much use for it. The bread itself has a good flavor. But I'll have to wait till its completely cooled before I can say if I like it or not. So far so good! Each bread I've tried is different than the next.

I've also learned I can add a tablespoon of vinegar to whole milk and turn it into buttermilk. Usually when I add a tablespoon of vinegar to anything it turns it into a cleaning solution. : )
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2018, 12:20:54 am »
OOps It's not a 'baker's scale' it's called the "Bakers Percentages" But it still works the same way.

My latest experiment! Didn't have much to do Monday after the doc appointment. So I drove to a liquor store I had no idea we had here in this small town. Finally found a Porter beer. I'm not a beer drinker. Don't know one from the other. First one I saw is the one I brought home. Opened a bottle and tried it. And here's what was foaming in my mouth. You take any beer. Open your cold bar-b-q pit. Put a bucket under the holes on the bottom. Then you clean out your pit with beer. What's in the bucket gets up in a bottle and labeled "Porter". Liquid charcoal with a beer aftertaste. : ) I wasn't going to be detoured. I finally found the beer style that was recommended to use in making bread. So poured the bottle into a sauce pan. Reduced it down to one cup and made bread. This is the same go to bread recipe that I've been using for weeks now. I've made it with different aged sponges, poolish and even once with a biga. Each style of making the dough gives the bread a different flavor. So I know what this bread tastes like. I didn't do anything fancy with this recipe this time. Just added the beer instead of one cup of water. The bread turned out with a very unique and actually good favor. It's good with fried eggs. It's really good with roast beef. So I tried it with peanut butter. OK it's not so good... actually it's really bad with peanut butter. So i told folks at work what I did. What beer I used. Then offered to give anyone who wanted the remaining five bottles. Those who had tried this particular beer before told me I was crazy. Out of all these beer drinkers nobody wanted this stuff. Ya, it is really that bad. You know it has to be bad if no one will take beer for free.  :D The name of the beer is 'Black Butte Porter". Just incase you have a hankering for drinking liquid charcoal.

I will try this again. But with a different beer style. I think this time I'll ask actual beer drinkers for their advice on a dark heavy flavored beer.  In all honesty this bread isn't bad. If I was going to have folks over for a BBQ or roast beef sandwiches this would make a great bread for that. The burned charcoal flavor doesn't work with everything. Honestly think this bread would ruin a BLT.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2018, 12:35:05 am »
I wen't over the top last weekend. Still have six loaves of bread in the freeze. This weekend I'll be spending time with my mom. She might end up with some bread. If i don't have any I'll have to make more. Dam this is fun. I can honestly say making bread is fun. And to be able to enjoy something you cooked gives a really good feeling.  I sat there at work. Chewing into a crusty end of a loaf. It was flour that came out of a bag. The water came out of my kitchen sink. Tossed it all together. Kneaded it by hand. Baked it. Now it's bread. And it's better than home made cookies. Why? You eat home made cookies and can feel guilty because your not eating healthy. You eat home made bread and you know your eating better bread than the plastic bag stuff. And it's healthy. With each recipe completely changing the flavor. Hundreds of recipes to choose from. Going from the plastic bag stuff to home made bread is like this. It's like drinking water all your life to finally realize there's tea, koolaid and coffee. Bread is no longer the thing that holds the sandwich together. Bread becomes part of the flavor.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2018, 01:54:35 pm »
Nope, didn't make bread over the weekend. Did a lot of reading and research instead. This added to my already confusing lexicon. So much conflicting data. But I guess that should be expected for something that has been done for well over 10.000 years. Passed down by verbal then written traditions. Ya, we all know the story. From then to modern printing. And now digital. No need for the mellow dramatics. So I'll stay on topic. And try not to be part of all the already published conflicting information. And hopefully get you through it as well. How? Cognitive reasoning via critical thinking.  A over B equals 42. B over A equals 42. In the end I've found any and all conflicting information is what is chosen by the speaker. We're talking yeast here. So if you come across this. "We use type A yeast because (insert the very same reasons other's use type B)" If you come across "We only use non additive all organic yeast? Be prepared to get sub par results.  And pay more for something marketed to crazy people. But going into a tangent on this would be to much fun. I'd be writing this post for days. So let's stay on topic.

There are two options for the home baker. Active dry yeast and the newer Instant, Rapid rise, Bread Machine and other fast sounding names. The difference? They way the VERY same critters are put into stasis. They are both the same yeast. Rapid rise yeast has more living critters so there's more hungry critters to feed.

What this means to the home baker. Yes you can use both. If you have rapid and the recipe calls for active dry then use 1/2 or less rapid. Why? Limited food supply. There's only so much starch in the dough for them to eat and fart. Inviting to many to the party and the food runs out. Things fall flat. 

That's the easy conflicting data and opinions to chew through. Techniques are another. As a musician I can tell you the very reasons why the same guitar sounds different when played by two people. And it's not mojo magic. Not even the physical size or sex of the player. Technique. That's it. As far as bread goes? Try everything and keep what works for you.

You can look at choosing different techniques like I handled a problem at work. We have a day shift supervisor who is in fact a four year old spoiled brat. He has two favorite hobbies, Complaining and running in circles.
I've been there for over 20 years. Option A was the standard then and is now. 4yold complains and wants B. Not a problem. I do B. 4yold complains and wants C. Not a problem I do C. 4yold complains and want D. Again not a problem. I do D. You guessed it, 4yold complains. This entire event took less than two weeks of time. And because of the limitations of a three dimensional universe there are no other possibilities. So with the power of cognitive reasoning via critical thinking I choose A! Why? Because A is easiest on me. You guessed it, 4yold complained. But can't do anything about it. i tried every option and got the same results. Had any of the other options gotten better results that option would be the one I'd be doing. Option A isn't perfect. But it has the least amount of problems for coworkers. Options B, C and D added problems to coworkers and in the end didn't help anyone. The moral of the story is. There are plenty of professional four year olds out there who will tell their way is the only way. Try every technique you find. Keep what works.

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2018, 10:04:34 am »
And just when you think you've learned it all. A no knead method that was invented by a French guy back in the 1970's.

Autolyse

You let the water in the flour make the gluten. Folding the dough once every half hour or so. Then you add the yeast, salt, any fats but they have to be in liquid form but not hot, eggs, sugar and the like. The best explanation I've found for it is,
https://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/09/29/using-the-autolyse-method/
They explain what it is and what it does. Nice pictures too. Talk about using it with kneading.
In this set of videos he shows the technique as it was designed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4tgEQw4ibs
The technique is shown in detail in six videos. The first five on his channel and then number seven.

This technique was designed to work with really sticky doughs. I'm still waiting on answers for using it on regular bread recipes. I'm guessing because there's less liquid it'll take longer to do.

There is a drawback to using this method. You can't use a poolish or biga. However it appears you can use a sourdough starter. But only after you let the flour and water do their thing together. Ya, I know what some of you are thinking, "But rat, if you only add a small amount of yeast you could let the entire batch ferment for say only four to six hours." Yes you could. But this has two drawbacks. First would be time. If the autolyse takes three hours you could be talking nine hours before proofing and baking. Secondly if your bread recipe calls for milk and or eggs. I have no problem with milk. However the proteins in eggs or the combo of milk and eggs could cause nasty things to happen when left sitting in a warm room for six hours. I'm not a pro, this is just my cautious guess.

Fro the sake of this thread i've been looking for things that can be done with almost every bread recipe out there. Autolyse may be a technique that you'll have to pick and choose when to use. it looks like a lot of fun. And kneading can get to be a chore. Especially if your doing three or more batches of bread. I've read over and over again, the best way to kill as stand mixer quickly is to use it to knead bread dough. Even the high power Kitchen Aid Pro I have is no match for the dough. That's why I stopped using it and went to hand kneading. It's a great machine. Works wonders for what it does. And yes it's designed to knead dough. But it will last years and years longer if I don't.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2018, 03:30:15 pm »
Well still no answers so I did some research on my own. If your going to do an autolyse your going to have to have a bread recipe that doesn't call for milk. There is a way to get eggs in. You would have to hold a cup of flour back when making the autolyse. Blend the egg with that cup and fold it in when your folding in the yeast and salt. You could do the same with the liquid fats. Basically any fat or oil in the autolyse will keep it from working.

This next is another example of conflicting information. I asked if dough needed yeast to ferment. Could it be done without it. And got a strict no for an answer. Yet I find by the same people that an autolyse will ferment and flavor the dough. And they told me that without yeast the dough would become a breading ground of bad bacteria. Yet they're saying a 12 hour autolyse makes the bread taste better.  All this by doing a search on the same forum I belong to. The answers given depends on what author answers first. Then there appears to be a lot of up kissing. I think it's time I stopped relying on them. There are other examples of bad behavior. So I'll continue to comment on posts and stop asking questions.

An autolyse can be done for 20 to 60 minutes before you add the rest of stuff to the dough. Usually 30 minutes is all thats needed. I still plan on trying it with the 1 1/4 cut water and 1 cup milk my go to bread calls for. But I will have to knead the dough. The benefits will be I wont have to knead as much. The dough will come together faster. And that's good enough for me.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2018, 04:04:50 pm »
Every time I read this thread I regret it. I'm trying to eat less bread and this makes me want to make it, which means I'll eat it. If it's as good as you make it sound then I'll eat more bread and less of what I should be eating. :p

I bet they love you in bake sales.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2018, 11:34:24 pm »
Thanks Varg.  The truth is home made bread is better for you. Store bought bread averages around 2 grams of protein per slice. Where home made bread averages around 8. I know there's a lot of diets that limit the amount of starches for medical reasons. But if you are able to eat limited quantities then shouldn't the bread be the best you can ... make? Home made loaf is smaller than a store bought one. So if you limit yourself to one loaf a week your still eating less bread then you would buying it. Most recipes make two loaves. Enjoy one and freeze the other for the next week. So have I convinced you to start baking yet? And what you talking about? Give my bread away? MINE! ALL MINE! You know you can make home made pizza dough too. Just go to home depot or Lowe's and get yourself an unglazed 18x18 1/4 inch think or thinker floor tile. Way cheaper and just as good as any pizza stone you can buy. Oooo Home made pizza! Imagine a crust that is actually as good tasting as the toppings.

They've gone up in price sense this video came out,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRuft5bKyZc
So Have I convinced you to come to the light side of the force yet? May the yeast be with you.

Set up to make some bread tomorrow. I've started my second attempt at a 'biga'. It's an Italian starter. I'm using what I can out of my go to recipe. Because I can only use water to make a biga and this recipe calls for milk as well. So using the Baker's Percentages' I'm able to use 18 oz of flour with 8 oz of water and 1/4 teaspoon of yeast. This will sit out for 12 hours covered to do it's magic. I learned from an Italian bread maker that the more of your recipe you can use to make the biga the better the flavor. He uses 90%. My first attempt at a biga I only used two cups of flour. That equals to around 28% of the total flour. The 18 oz is equal to four cups. or about 60% of the total flour needed. I really liked the flavor I got with just two cups. This should be better. 

I'm also going to try my hand at 'Autolyse'. This is where you add all the water to the flour and let it sit for no less than a half hour and up to 12. Two hours being best for quicker baking. What this does is allows the flour to completely hydrate. The bread gluten forms on it's own. Making it easier to knead. Some breads , like real French baguettes, are so wet all you need to do is stretch the dough once every half hour. But you can look up autolyse on youtube to get the full story better than I can type it. The bread I'll be making isn't as hydrated as that so I will have to do some kneading. I'm also going to have to leave out one cup of flour. I'll mix the yeast, eggs, crisco, powdered buttermilk and salt into that one cup. Then knead it into the dough  This technique wont add to the flavor of the bread. Only make it easier to make. That is it's only down side I can see so far.

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2018, 01:44:21 pm »
Finally got the biga incorporated in with the rest of the dough. Lesson learned.

When you make your biga make sure all the flour is equally wet. If not you'll end up like I did. With chunkies. Think of mostly dried paper mache glue.  :D
When adding the rest of he ingredients and liquids, in my case milk and oil, plus the rest of your flour, yeast and salt. Rip your biga up and mix it into the wet flour. Let this sit for a bit so everything will be equally hydrated.

The rest is treating the dough like normal. This dough has 1 1/4 teaspoon of yeast. Ruffly half of what is in a packet. The first 1/4 was added to the biga. The remaining teaspoon was added with the rest of the ingredients. Yeast is alive. The 1/4 teaspoon of yeast has had 12 hours to eat and happily multiply. The idea for good bread is only use as much yeast as needed. To little and you end up with a longer rising but better tasting bread. To much and you'll end up with a flat loaf. The yeast ran out of food.

I've also started the autolyse. Left a portion of the flour out so I can mix in the rest of this recipes ingredients. This recipe calls for dried buttermilk solids, baking powder, salt, sugar, crisco and eggs. Plus the yeast and salt. Because in an autolyse the yeast and salt will interfere with the gluten formation. So you leave them out till you mix it all together. I'm going to let this sit for four hours covered on the counter.

And speaking of yeast. I started out buying yeast in those pre measured packets. You know, like a normal person. Then I bought a small jar of it. Like a somewhat normal person. Now I'm buying it by the pound. Yep, like a crazy person. I got my poundage on line. Things to be aware of when buying yeast. Make sure the seller guarantees a good expiration date. Lots of cheap yeast out there that's near or past prime. Secondly portion what your going to use out into a small container. In my case that glass jar. Then put the foil bag into a freezer bag and freeze it. I've been told by pros that this yeast will last two years or longer frozen. Yep, past it's prime date. That prime date is if it's being stored at room and icebox temps. And remember folks. There's yeast out there marketed for crazy people. Those people who believe that vitamin C and Calcium is bad for you if it's put in something it doesn't naturally come in. Stay away from the overly priced and under preforming "all Natural" brands. There is also a brand out there that doesn't contain the goodies that, for hundreds of years people have known, make yeast happy. Red Star. You will end up setting up a kitchen lab and adding the C and Calcium to get it to make good bread. There is a reason why it's way cheaper than Fleischmann's or SAF-Instant. Both great brands. And don't try bread with wine or bear yeast. Doesn't work. Different yeasties. Just remember this when buying your yeast. Make sure it has all the extra goodies that keep yeast happy.

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2018, 09:08:01 pm »
Alrighty then. Let's talk results. First the biga started bread. Freaking AWESOME! The bread has a fruity wine like smell and a mellow but pronounced flavor. That Italian baker was right. "The bigger the biga. The better the flavor." The overall flavor is different from a poolish starter. The very same bread recipe. This is totally worth the extra effort and will be done again.

Now for the autolyse. What an experience. So I added all the water to all but one cup of the flour the recipe called for. To that cup of flour I added the rest of the dry ingredients. Let the autolyse sit for two or three hours. I actually forgot how long. The fist thing I did was add the yeast to the autolyse side. Then the egg and oil to the one cup dry side. That one cup dry side ended up looking like dried yellow cake crumbs. So I folded in the yellow cake crumbs into the very sticky autolyse. It looked really bad. My first thought was,"I'm going to have bread with flavor chucks." So I let this sit for a half hour. And refolded the dough. Did this for three hours. Each time I notices less and less of the yellow cake crumbs as they were being integrated into the dough. So long story shout I ended up with over proofed dough. Three hours of folding. One hour of letting the dough double in size. And one hour of letting the dough rise in the pans. What I did was starve the yeast. Usually yeast is in the dough for maybe two and half hours. Five plus hours did them in. So the cooked loaves are flat. However very unusual. They smell like flowers. Garden flowers?? And have an unusual but good flavor. I have no idea why. I've made this bread recipe before. Did not smell or taste this way. I will try this again. This time figure out how much yeast I should use for a five hour fermentation time. It will be considerably less the the two and 1/4 teaspoons I used. OK I'm really hoping it has the same smell and taste to it the next time I do this. Would not want this to be a one time accident.  Oh before I forget. Absolutely no kneading was necessary. All the bread gluten was formed with the autolyse technique.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2018, 12:47:35 am »
The autolyse. Mechanically the entire experiment worked perfectly. Not only did I find that almost any recipe could be started with an autolyse. But fats wont keep the dough from reaching the windowpane stage. The autolyse technique is meant for breads only using four ingredients. Water, flour, salt and yeast. As far as I know I'm the first person to try it with fat, eggs, milk and the like.

Unfortunately this bread's flavor is bad. The smell of flours went away after the first 24 hours. This bread tasted so bad i tossed the second loaf.  The original recipe done the traditional way makes a great loaf of bread. I'm no chemist. I have no idea why doing it this way would drastically change the flavor.  I'm not deterred. I will try this again. Was thinking of doing the very same recipe. Only this time leaving the buttermilk solids out.  I will not be deterred. I think I'm on to something. Really hope this next experiment results in eatable food.  :D

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2018, 02:37:30 pm »
Continuing the autolyse experiment. This time i'm going to use my go to recipe. But modify it a bit. Leave out the milk. Replace it with an equal amount of water. Add an extra table spoon of crisco to make up for the missing fat the milk would have added. Add the baking powder the buttermilk recipe called for. And add an egg. I'm also going to reduce the amount of yeast by half. This way there should be enough starch in the flour to feed the yeast as they multiply for three hours. I've also started the poolish for two more loaves of bread. Incase the autolyse experiment fails I'll still have bread for the week.

My first autolyse experiment hasn't  gotten much feedback on the bread from. I get the feeling those people are, to put it mildly, odd. God forbid someone does something that wasn't set in law by a professional. Your not ALOWED to think. Only follow their recipes because they know better. Ya, that kind of atmosphere. So I'll toss another rock into their placid pool of water when I post my second autolyse experiment results.  :D As I confessed before. My experiment was mechanically a total success. Something some of them say is not possible. ' an autolyse only works for breads using four ingredients. water, flour, salt and yeast. Nothing else.......' What went wrong was an unforeseen chemical reaction. This was not caused by the autolyse. But by condensing all the remaining ingredients and letting them leach into the autolyse. 

My guess has to how this went wrong. And this is a totally uneducated guess. Or this could be really off the wall wrong but I wouldn't know. So take this with a grain of salt.
When you add a smaller amount of something solid into a larger amount of a different solid the smaller is held in suspension be the mass of the larger. Each different smaller amount will create a chemical reaction with whatever is closest to it. Each of these reactions caused by or separated by the larger mass. The end result is the different smaller chemical reactions throughout the larger mass. When combining all the smaller solids. This new mass has an equal amount per particle of all the separate solids. When added to the larger mass the same chemical reaction happens throughout. So the end result is not different chemical reactions. But the same reaction repeated throughout the larger mass.

My reasoning for this thought. If you make a soup with and leave each ingredient large. Each spoon full of the soup will have a stronger flavor of whatever is in the spoon. If you blend that same soup into a smooth mixture. Each spoon full will taste the same. But different than if the soup was unblended.

My second experiment will either confirm my thoughts by turning out really bad again. Or turn our great. If this happens then I'll know a backer can counter act bad chemical reactions be limiting what is added to an autolyse. In this case milk or milk products. I will try this again if it goes bad. There is still the egg and baking powder. One of these could be the cause. Making this again and leaving out the egg or baking powder wile adding the buttermilk powder. And I'll try this again because it fun.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 02:46:35 pm by cause the rat »
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2018, 09:11:28 pm »
Autolyse 2.0 The results. Again the autolyse preformed perfectly mechanically. The dough reached windowpane without kneading. Only using a teaspoon and a quarter of yeast resulted in a perfect rise and oven spring. The overall appearance of the sliced bread is an even structure ( crumb ). Now for the flavor. This bread as an earthy flavor to it. No unusual tastes or smells. The real test will be how it tastes tomorrow. That's when it's flavor intensifies. Any nasties will come out.

I used my go to bread recipe because I knew how it should look and handle. This is the same bread I've been eating for seven of the nine weeks I've done this. By omitting the milk and adding an egg the taste is different. But the structure of the bread is the same.  This is my second time proving that fat will not keep an autolyse from working. Now to stir the stagnet waters on the bread forum.  :D

I've still got two loaves to make. Not going to let that poolish go to waste. Makes some good bread!
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2018, 12:59:17 pm »
Second day. This is the day the bread ripens to it's strongest flavors. It still tastes like bread.  :) Now I'm really perplexed as to why the first experiment turned out really bad tasting. It's easy to point at the buttermilk powder. However I've made bread with it before and really liked the flavor. The first bread didn't taste or smell anything like the one I did with the autolyse method.

Doing an autolyse is a lot easier than traditional kneading. It does take a bit longer. And it does look like most bread recipes can be modified to work. The only thing I can see not working is trying to do this with a starter. Like a biga or poolish. It's a shame. Because I really like the flavors you get with both of those methods. Would I use the autolyse method again? Yes. Especially if my right wrist is bothering me
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2018, 02:02:03 pm »
This weekend I plan on breaking all the rules with an autolyse. I'm going to start it with 50% water 50% milk. I've read that an autolyse is only meant for breads using four ingredients. Flour, salt yeast and water. Proved that wrong. That an autolyse only works with very sticky doughs ( high hydration ). Proved that wrong. Now I want to start it with a source of fat from the beginning. Whole milk. Then add more fat to it derring the wait and stretch cycle.  This means the whole milk will be sitting out for five hours. Might end up with cheese. But cheese bread isn't bad.  :D

I'll also find out if using milk with the autolyse technique is the cause of that bad flavor. I know that was buttermilk powder. But it does contain milk solids. And because milk is used in more bread recipes than buttermilk knowing will help eliminate one or both when using this method.

You know the sad part about all this is I'm using the same recipe over and over again. This bread is starting to taste familiar. Like nothing special. Going to have to start using a new recipe. It's totally amazing how just changing a few ingredients can completely change the flavor of bread. Even the temperature and time the bread is in the oven will change it's flavor.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2018, 03:31:02 pm »
Sorry folks, I know it's been over a week. No I haven't stopped wanting to make bread. I geeked out last weekend. Spent hours upon hours of reading scientific studies and old documents. Documents from the 17 and 1800's. Just to find the answer to a question I had. So I not only didn't make any bread. But I ran out of bread on Friday. So yes. Today I'll be making lots of bread. I'm sticking with my go to recipe. Because i have it memorized.  :D Hey, it's good eats. So my experiment with the autolyse technique and hole milk will have to wait till next weekend.

What I will be doing today is a partial autolyse. Letting the dough sit completely mixed for an hour before I kneed it. It was stated on the bread forum by someone that this worked. Making it faster and easier to kneed the bread. By using the bread recipe I'm completely familiar with it will be easer to see how this will effect the outcome of the bread. I'm thinking of treating this first hour as the 'proofing' rise. The first rise before you divide the dough into loaves. This way I wont have to change the amount of yeast I use. I'll simply kneed, divide and then let the dough re rise a second time before baking. The amount of time the yeast will be in contact with the four starches will be the same.  I'll post and let you know how this worked out.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2018, 12:07:37 am »
OK. after only leaving the dough to hydrate for an hour. Not much of a difference. I still had to kneed the dough to get it to the proper state. Bread turned out nice. Looks like an hour is not enough time to allow the proteins in the dough to develop enough to cut the time you have to kneed. It was fun. No harm done and I have bread for the week.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2018, 12:39:16 pm »
OK folks! I'm calling this the RAT method of making bread. I like the autolyse method. But it takes some thought. And it's difficult to work in other ingredients. The Rat method takes a bit more time to make the bread. But a lot less work. If your just starting out you should make the same bread the traditional way a few times first. Get the idea of how the bread should feel when you have the right amount of dry to wet mixed.

How to make bread like a rat.

Start your bread dough the traditional way. Kneeing it to get the right consistency. Then form it into a ball and let it rest for five minutes. Kneed it again for a few minutes. Then form it into a ball and let it sit for ten minutes. Check to see how close you are to the window pain when you stretch a small wad out. Kneed for a few minutes. Then let the dough sit for five more minutes. Kneed for a few minutes and check. By now you should have window or near window pain. Once you get the dough right continue on with the traditional rise, divide and rise then bake.

Each time you go back to the dough it should feel different. Silkier and smoother with more elasticity to it. All that without kneading for ten to fifteen minutes straight.

Your first rise may take less time so keep an eye on your dough.  Because your yeast has had more time in the dough than it would have had if you did this the traditional way.


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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2018, 05:49:39 pm »
I made four loaves of bread the Rat way. Super easy. Really turned out well. Very happy with this. Way easier than fighting with modifying the autolyse method. I don't see any problems at all using a poolish or bigga starter with this modified autolyse method. So next weekend I'll be doing the Rat thing with a poolish starter.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2018, 02:20:36 pm »
It's bread day!!! I'm not only making bread for the week. But for the weekend as well. Will be going to Gatewayfurmeet! That's this weekend in St. Louis MO. You know I'll be having fresh bread in my room.  :D In all seriousness I have food allergies. So I'll be cooking enough to last me the four days I'll be at the hotel. But why not have the best!

Done the RAT system twice now. Each time with the same results. Will be doing this two more times today.

RAT = Reworked Autolyse Technique.

Start your bread recipe as normal. Once your happy with your dough form into a ball. Dust it with flour, cover with a towel or paper towels. Let rest for five minutes.

Uncover and kneed the dough a few times. Add more flour if you find sticky spots. Kneed for at least ten times. Form into a ball. If you had to add a lot of flour dust the dough with flour again. Cover with a towel or paper towels and let rest for five minutes.

Uncover and kneed the dough a few times. Check for window pain to see how close you are. Kneed the dough for ten to twelve times. Form into a ball and cover with the towel or paper towels. Let rest for five minutes. Don't add a dusting of flour on this step.

Uncover. Kneed the dough a final few times to knock it down a bit. You should have window pain. If not form into a ball and let rest for five more minutes. Repeat this step.

Put dough ball into a greased bowl and let rise as you would with the normal recipe. Keep an eye on it. It may take less time to double in bulk than normal. Follow the recipe for pan rise and oven temp and time. BREAD! the rat way  :D

There is it folks. REAL history in the making.

I still haven't had to go past three five minute rest periods. If you do it's no biggy. I may be more aggressive with my kneading or putting my dough together.

Unfortunately a shift and job change has separated me from the guy I gave the refrigerator bread book to. I know both he and his family were enjoying the bread they made by it's techniques. Because his wife loves to make fresh bread each week they will be enjoying that book for years to come.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2018, 01:43:42 am »
Heu everyone. No bread making this weekend. I went to a furcon! Gatewayfurmeet. It was AWESOME! Almost doubled last cons attendees. Great new place and really nice con space. Anyway, I didn't make any bread. But I didn't do without. Yep, had home made bread in my room all con long.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2018, 01:05:23 pm »
Well as you can guess I had so much bread left over that I'm still working through it. So again, no bread making over the weekend.

I've been making home made bread for five months. For the most part of those five months I've been making the very same recipe. Sure I can change up the flavor by making a bigga or poolsh starter. But it's still the same variations on one theme. Well it happened. Over the weekend, wile enjoying french toast made with home made bread, I came to the conclusion, " I need a change". After five months of eating the same bread?  OK, so I'm not a picky eater.  :D This coming weekend I'll be trying a few different recipes. Still all white bread. Because it's the everyday bread I enjoy the most. I'll be using my RAT technique. Because it works. And it's also very easy on the body. If you remember my opening post I talked about having damage to my right wrist. Kneading three batches of dough can get rough fast. So making it easier on myself, and in this case, others as well is a good thing. Did a google search "white bread recipe". Got 2,190,000 results. Looks like i have a few to choose from.  :D Figure if I get a recipe out of one of the books I have I wont be able to share it with you. Recipe = art. Sharing art = art theft. I'm an artist and I'm not going down that hole. So I'll choose a few and share their links. I know flavor and taste are subjective. But what I can do is let you know if the recipe is well portioned and makes a good loaf.  Looking forward to sharing my choices and experience this weekend!
It's been said that rats can gain access to your home by climbing up threw your toilet. I prefer to use the front door.