Author Topic: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.  (Read 2682 times)

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2018, 04:50:15 pm »
For today's experiment I've chosen two recipes off line.

The first is a simple bread. A French plain white loaf.
http://www.geniuskitchen.com/recipe/julia-childs-white-bread-9032

I chose the second for a reason. To help bring and understanding of how to and or why there is a thing in bread called powdered milk. You can get whole milk, nonfat milk. buttermilk and even  coconut milk powders. Do you kneed to go out and buy one of these rather expensive powders? Nope. Not if you know how to substitute. First these powders are there to actually substitute for people who don't want to buy or have no real need to have the actual product. I hate buttermilk. It would go to waste in my box before I'd use it all. However I wanted to try a recipe that called for buttermilk. My solution? Buy the powder. It will last a very long time. I don't have to worry about using it all in a week. In this recipe they call for "Baker's special dry milk." How special.  :D All kidding aside. It's dried nonfat milk. All the hype behind it is the same benefits you would get if using actual nonfat or whole milk. So here's how you would substitute if you already have milk. The recipe calls for 2 cups of water and 1/2 cup 'special dry mix'. Now you could go "investigative shopping". That's where you go to a store's baking isle, pick up a package of nonfat dry milk mix, see how much it takes to make one cup of milk, put that package back down, and go home an informed shopper. That would be on any recipe but this one you can find on line. Their special powder is a bit more condensed. Looking at their stuff it only takes 1/4 of a cup of dry to make one cup of milk. So following this recipe I would need two cups of milk and no water. I'm going to use whole milk as well. This should be an awesome very rich tasting bread.

This is the perfect recipe to try my RAT technique on. By using nothing but whole milk I'm setting my self up for a world of hurt. Fats slow down the hydration rate of flour. This greatly effects the amount of time it takes to create gluten. Autolyse relies on hydration rate of flour to create gluten. My Reworked Autolyse Technique ( RAT ) does as well. The original Autolyse technique claimed using fats would counter act and fail this technique. My RAT technique proved him wrong. Now no one in the world would love my RAT technique to work in this all fat bread recipe more than me. Looking forward to this fight!

Second recipe,
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/walter-sands-basic-white-bread-recipe



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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2018, 10:18:23 pm »
Naturally I would make the second recipe first. Fight! OK I just got done with the RAT technique. Bread is on it's proofing rise. When it doubles in bulk I'll push it down, divide and pan it. Did the RAT technique work? Yes! But because of the lack of hydration and the amount of fat I had to let it rest one more five minute time. As stated in my technique this is a possibility. I will only know if it's a complete success when the bread is out of the oven and I cut it up. No gaps or large holes means this is a complete success.

If you look at the recipe they call for two tablespoons of sugar. I only used one. Not a fan of sweet bread but do miss it if there's no sugar in the dough. it also calls for all purpose flour. I used the higher in gluten bread flour. You can make great bread with a good all purpose flour. The real difference is in the bite. I happen to like my bread chewy with a small bubble crumb. For me, my personal preference is bread flour.

Here is where I went purposely wrong with this recipe. Milk is only 87% water. So in reality I should have used two cups of milk and two ounces or 1/4 cup of water. This would have brought the liquid content up to what's actually in the recipe. Here's how that works. In two cups of milk there is only 14 ounces of water. The rest is fat and other wonderful things. So by adding the 1/4 cup of water I would have added the proper 16 ounces or two cups.  By doing what I did I made it the worst case scenario. If this comes together and works you bet I'll be one happy bread making rat!  I'll make the next batch, if I happen to like how this bread tastes, with the proper amount of water.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 10:20:38 pm by cause the rat »
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2018, 01:01:54 am »
SUCCESS! The world is MINE!  :D Update. Not quite a success. Read more about that in following post.

The all milk bread has cooled down enough for me to slice. First impression. Because there was less than six cups of flour used this made two very small loaves. It has the same tight small bubble crumb that I always shoot for. It does have a slight swirl pattern within it's structure. This is an indication that the bread was not fully mixed. The lack of hydration could be the cause of this. The swirl does not effect the quality of this bread. Because of it's high fat content the bread is very moist. From here on it's my opinions. For me the bread would work better as a dessert bread. Cinnamon rolls, sweet nut breads. That sort of thing. It would also make for a great breakfast or snack bread. It's completely lacking the earthy flavors I enjoy in home made bread. But this is just day one. Tomorrow the flavor will intensify. If I had to choose right now if I'd make this bread again I'd say no. As far as the overall structure it's a winner. But to me favor is king. My RAT technique has proven itself against a worst case scenario. I'm happy and quite proud of myself. I really hope you are able to try it. See just how easy it is to make home made bread.

The French style plane bread is in the oven now. If you look at the recipe it calls for a tablespoon of yeast. Two packs of active dry yeast would be perfect. The recipe calls for softened unsalted butter. But it's not mentioned or needed in the making of this bread. No idea why it's there.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 09:52:40 am by cause the rat »
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2018, 10:04:01 am »
There is a possibility. Not quite the success I was hoping for. Rather know than guess.

Yes the bread turned out. But not as good as it should have. The overall crumb ( the relational size of gas bubbles that make up the structure of the bread ) was very uneven. It goes from good to sponge cake.  I'm going to have to ask someone in the know about why I'd get this. Find out if it is caused by the overly high amount of fats. Or poor gluten formation. This is the first time I've ever tried a bread with this much fat in it. So I have no personal experience with how it should turn out. Still an uneven crumb is never a good thing.

If I get an answer I'll post it here. If not I'll  research till I find one.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2018, 05:50:43 pm »
I am one happy baker!!!!!!

Posted a picture of the structure of the bread  on the FL forum. Got two answers. Letting me know the bread looks normal for the amount of fat it contains!

OK I still have to try the bread with a bigga starter. This is a very dry starter that takes a bit to rehydrate back into a bread dough.  Because it takes up most of the flour with only a small portion of the liquids. This will be a challenge to get this technique to work as well. Not quite the challenge as the fatty fat fat bread.  :D

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2018, 04:06:18 pm »
I've got a lot of bread to make today!

First I'll be making a few loaves of good sandwich bread to leave at my moms tomorrow. Then I'll be trying an experiment with that extra fatty milk bread I made last weekend. I'm going to make it into dessert bread. I'll divide each recipe in half. Then make each half into a different dessert bread. Planning for sweet raisin, cinnamon almond, chocolate mocha and orange amaretto. If I can think of something else I'll try it too.

Once I get home tomorrow I'll make bread for myself for the week. May go through some of the books I have. Find a new one to try.
 
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #81 on: April 01, 2018, 10:04:40 pm »
I made six loaves of bread for today. Unfortunately I wasn't able to try any of the flavored ones. Left all four flavors at my mom's for Easter. I can honestly say I completely understand why people make 'coffee cakes' instead of flavored breads. Yes there are plenty of flavored breads. But I didn't use any recipe. Just made the faty milk bread recipe and added things. Like more than half a bag of Hershey's chocolate chips to a single loaf of bread. Plus vanilla and three tablespoons of instant coffee. Or five table spoons of Tang orange drink plus four teaspoons of almond extract. Everything i did was a mess in the making. The chocolate bread took an extra twenty minutes for it's internal temp to reach 190'. Probably due to the amount of fat and grease in the loaf. Told my mom she might have to cut the bread up and recook it like you would biscotti. She'll try them through the week and let me know what she thinks of them. She is my worst critic. She wont hold back if any one of the flavor loafs are bad tasting.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2018, 12:33:36 pm »
Got news on all four loaves of dessert breads. They liked them all. But didn't know what the 'yellow' bread was. Said it tasted like nuts. That was my orange almond bread. So Tang doesn't taste like Tang after it's baked. They all tasted good.  I'm happy with them. But they were a real pain to make. Trying to add things like extracts to an already established dough means your adding more moisture. Even a single teaspoon will make the dough sticky. I should point out that I divided the dough in half. Then added ingredients to each half. So a teaspoon of water is a huge amount when working with a single loaf of bread. If I was to do this again I would take the measurements for the needed extracts out of the total amount of liquids added to the dough. Better to start out with a stiff dough than to make one sticky and have to deal with that. Yes, bread is a science. But not rocket science. Remember. People have been making this stuff for thousands of years.

I tried a different bread recipe earlier in the week. Was off one day. The bread called for two cups of butter milk. I still have some of the powdered stuff so I did it that way. Bread turned out great. However I've learned that my RAT method has to be modified if your making bread with a moderately high fat content. I had to let it rest five times to get 'window pain'. For those who don't know what that is. It's when you can stretch a small portion of the dough thin enough to see light through it. So if your going to try the RAT method it's best to let the dough tell you when it's ready. Moderate to high fat content does slow down the formation of gluten.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #83 on: April 10, 2018, 12:04:39 am »
I made bread but didn't don anything new or exciting to post about.

I actually had store bought bread last week. Every year when baseball season opens our company puts on a catered lunch. Love me some grilled hamburgers. Got my bun, my burger, some lettuce and tomato and dived in. I could see I had bread. It was on both sides of this sandwich. But I couldn't taste it.  I think that's the biggest appeal for me. Home made bread has a strong flavor. That flavor really adds something to something as simple as a sandwich. An earthy robust flavor. Enhances the over all flavor. Even works with peanut butter and jelly. Or just plain ol butter. Six solid months now of home made brad and I'm no way tired of it. And like that sandwich I had at work. Miss it when it's not there.

Just for fun I wanted to find out if home made bread has less starch than store bought. Didn't find that yet. But did run into a poop wagon of poop. Read one site that said natural sourdough yeast is better than store bought. And I said What??????? a load of poop. And they want to sell you this load of poop. Now there are thousands of strains of yeast in the world. And the only way you will get the same yeast someone else has cultured is if you live in that same area of the country. Even if you start a sourdough with a different yeast. They will die off and the natural yeast in your neck of the woods will take over. So is natural yeast better than store bought? Nope. Bread made with your neck of the woods natural yeast will last longer before it goes stale. And it will have a different flavor. But it's not any better for you than store bought yeast. But enough of that load of poop. There's an even more frightening load of poop out there. "There IS PLASTER OF PARISE in store bought bread!!!!!!!!" Yep. There is also plaster of paris in vitamins, There's plaster of paris in beens, almonds and sardines as well. And the horror gets even worst. There is plaster of paris in your bones. Yet no one as ever complained about using an eatable item to make walls out of. I know I've already warned you all about 'organic and natural' products. The more you know the more people you can laugh at.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #84 on: April 15, 2018, 08:44:25 pm »
Two more batches of bread this weekend. Still loving every minute of it. Made a batch of oatmeal cookies earlier last week. They're gone. Been taking them to work to snack on. Way better for me than that grease ladened stuff sold out of vending machines. Be making a batch of those today. Along with my first try at a fruit bread. Unlike a coffee cake you use yeast and let the dough rise just like a normal loaf of bread would.

The only thing I did different with the RAT technique today was to let the dough rest one more five minute time. Just to see if there was any difference in the final product. Nothing changed in the loaf. But I did have to let the dough rise a bit longer in the pans. Possibly due to letting it rest one more time derring kneading. There's only so much starch available for the yeast to munch. The lower the supply the longer it takes for the loaves to rise.

I started both batches of bread with a poolish. The first was a normal 6 hour poolish. The second I addd more flour to it after two hours and only let it ferment for a total of four. Both times I only used a teaspoon and a half of yeast. Instead of the full two and a quarter teaspoons you would get out of a package. I used less yeast because they would multiply derring the ferment time in the poolish. As most of you know I buy my yeast by the pound now. Even using less per loaf I really doubt this first pound will last me a year. Love me some home made bread!
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2018, 11:20:19 pm »
Well it looks like it finally might happen. And it literally took a backside full of mediation. I wasn't able to make bread this weekend. Ended up in the ER with a strained back. Between the shots and meds I slept from Friday to late Sunday night. So for the first time sense last November I had to buy a loaf of bread. It's still in the walmart bag. If I can somehow manage to get a few loaves off I feed this bread to the birds. But right now there's no way I'll be able to lean forward and knead bread dough. What I can talk about is that apple bread I made. To assemble the bread the recipe said to roll the dough out to an 18 by 18 square. Sprinkle all the apples, brown sugar and all. Then fold this up and cut it into one inch chunks. Did just that. So imagine trying to keep brown sugar and eggs together. This got sloppy real quick. The recipe said to scoop this stuff up and place it in the well lined bread pans. First i'd like to say the bread was great. The reason I could taste the bread is because all the apples went to the bottom and all the brown sugar and eggs seeped out to the bottom and sides. So it was a bit like eating bread with a bit of apple pie. I plan on making the bread part by itself because it was really good bread. But I don't think I'll be making this apple thing again.

The bread recipe is really close to my go to recipe. The main difference is it has a higher hydration and cooks at a higher tempt. These two things alone give this bread a different flavor. Bread is unique because cooking times and temperature actually change the flavor of the bread. It's going to be fun to see how this bread turns out without all the apples and stuff in it. Hopefully this weekend. Will have to see how this old body is coming along.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2018, 03:16:34 am »
Have you thought about getting a mixer with a dough hook? It might save your back and your wrist a lot of pain, and with the amount of bread you make it could be worth it financially, too. They aren't too $$ if you get them used, and the kitchenaid variety last forever.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2018, 10:25:51 pm »
You know Varg, I'm going to blame it on the meds. I have a KitchenAid Pro sitting right in the front of me. So that's what I'm doing tonight. The kneading is done. The dough is doing its first rise. I'm looking forward to not opening this bag of store bought bread.  Even if I have to stay up later to get it done.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2018, 12:16:27 am »
Well it's been an interesting two weeks. And again a hectic weekend. Between my back, my mom going back to the hospital and trying to get some projects and music done I didn't make bread over the weekend again. However I did learn something wonderful using my stand up mixer. My RAT technique works using a mixer!!!! The biggest complaint people have about mixers is they, even the one I have, over heat when kneading bread. Being able to turn it off and let it rest for five minutes. Then run it for a few minutes and start the process over again. The stand up mixer isn't on long enough to get hot. This is totally awesome news!  And like icing on the cake the bread came out just as good as those done by hand.

Right now I'm working more hours and getting home later. So I may end up eating that loaf of Wonder bread. But to be truthful I'm way to happy about how my RAT technique is working out to be bummed about it. And who knows. I haven't had store bought bread in so long I might actually like the flavor.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #89 on: May 06, 2018, 10:02:19 pm »
Didn't each much of that loaf of wonder bread. Instead of taking bread with my all meat lunch I took slices of pizza. That might become a habit. : )
Got bread going. Plan on making six loaves. Nothing special, my go to recipe. I miss the bread already and it's only been 3 or four days. Don't get me wrong. Store bought bread is good. Just not as good. I still have to try to make fake grilled cheese sandwiches with home made bread. That's where you toast the bead in a toaster first. Butter the outsides. Put your cheese in and microwave till the cheese starts to spread out the sides. It's good with regular bread. Has to be really good with home made.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2018, 04:15:27 am »
That's where you toast the bead in a toaster first. Butter the outsides. Put your cheese in and microwave till the cheese starts to spread out the sides.

 :D
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2018, 11:43:00 am »
You should give it a try Varg. It's awesome.

Tried a new bread recipe over the weekend. This one had a few differences that had me interested in trying it. First was the amount of flour. For two loaves of bread I've been using 31.5 oz. of flour. this recipe called for only 23 oz. With a higher percentage of water. The dough was light and not as sticky as I thought it would be. But did stick and wasn't that easy to handle. The recipe also called for rapid rise yeast. Mostly known as bread machine yeast. There is a difference between this and regular yeast. It's the same strain of yeast. Just processed differently. You end up with more living yeast per oz. So you use less. The recipe also called for starting it with a poolish. The difference being the size of the poolish. (If you don't know what a poolish is see note below.) Usually a poolish is around one cup, or ruffly 14% of the total recipe. This one called for ruffly 53%. Making the flavor very strong in the end product. And it tastes wonderful. After following the direction and baking this was a bit of a failure. The bread fell in the oven. I'm thinking the amount of rapid rise yeast was two high. The yeast simply ran out of food. The bread is still good. Still has an even crumb and great texture. And a really good flavor. I'm thinking of combining parts of this recipe with my go to one and see what i end up with. I also make a batch of my go to. Just so I'd have enough bread for the week.


NOTE
a poolish is when you take equal parts of flour and water. Add a small amount of yeast. Mix and let ferment for up to 24 hours. Covered in your kitchen. The bread you end up with is like home made bread on steroids. The intensity of the flavor depends on the amount of time you allow it to ferment. Most bakeries don't have the time or space to do this. So your home made bread is better tasting than most pro bakeries in business today.
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Re: Home made bread. From traditional to no knead refrigerator.
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2018, 10:48:11 pm »
Well as you may have guessed I didn't make bread last weekend. Started on a few projects that took most of my time. Hoping to get three guitars built this summer. On hold till I get a new jig saw. But that's another subject. Right now I have two loaves in the oven and dough rising on the kitchen table. Even after all these months this is something I look forward to doing. Still haven't got to the 'same ol taste' boredom. Yes my bread is boring. I like white bread. I might try some specialty white bread. Like French or Italian. But it will be white bread. I'll never be an artisan baker. Just good at making everyday bread. And that's fine with me. 
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