Author Topic: Links to fursuit making guides thread.  (Read 2019 times)

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Offline Shim

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Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« on: April 23, 2011, 10:03:12 pm »
I have a small criticism here about how the furtopia staff treats threads pertaining to fursuiting and plushie related questions.

In my year on this forum so far, I have found that numerous members have started simple "How do I make _________" threads. From what I've seen, the staff's usual approach to these simple threads are to link to guides other people have made on their own sites.

In this thread, for example, http://forums.furtopia.org/index.php?topic=41344.0, this member asked how to make a tail. Plain and simple. I did the same, months earlier. The staff's reply was to tell me that I should look at this guide or that guide. That reply did not answer my question. I tried to ask again, but the reply was "did you even look through the guides?"

Yes, I looked at the guides, but found no answer. That's why I asked again. It made me feel as though I was wrong for asking my question about fursuits and plushies..on the fursuits and plushies board. It made me feel as though this was not the right place to be posting questions, like I was too ignorant to look for a guide before posting a simple, friendly question on the simple, friendly forum.

If you look at the thread I linked, you'll notice that I posted a simple 3-4 line guide after Kobuk linked to tail guides. That member thanked me for it. It was that simple. No links or outside sources were necessary.

This is not to say that it's wrong to link to other sources, but I find it silly that we insist on telling the askers to go elsewhere. A forum is for discussion. It is not an organized FAQ.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 10:06:13 pm by Shim »

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 10:22:58 pm »
Shim: Just because I post additional links to other fursuit tutorials and guides does not in any way mean that I (or others) are telling members to go elsewhere and that they can't post on Furtopia and get help. When I post other sources for fursuit help, It's because I am trying to offer additional resources that someone may not have thought about or looked at. Members can post any fursuit questions they have and ask for advice. But if I or someone else doesn't know something, then we may have to post links to outside sources. Myself, SPark, and probably a few others are not going to be able to "know everything" about fursuiting. We're not 100% experts about fursuit materials, construction techniques, etc. Nobody in the fandom can know EVERYTHING there is about fursuits and fursuiting. The materials, construction techniques, performance issues, etc. will change constantly year after year as more and more people make fursuits and perform in them.
I'm sorry if you or others are feeling "pushed" away from the Fursuit forum and feel like you have to go elsewhere and/or that you may feel like your information isn't wanted. That certainly isn't true. Anybody can offer help and advice in the Fursuit forum to other members if they wish. If one person doesn't know something, then go ahead and post your info. The more "alternatives and options" a person has, then the better they are informed IMO. ;)
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http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/

Offline Shim

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 10:31:30 pm »
I'm..not sure if you fully understood what I meant.

Members can post any fursuit questions they have and ask for advice. But if I or someone else doesn't know something, then we may have to post links to outside sources.[/color]

Yes, I understand that. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with outside links. However, I don't see why that has to be the first response.

Asker: "Okay. But what about ______?"
Answer: "I'm not sure, but I think that this link may help you."

Sounds a lot more friendly to me.

Myself, SPark, and probably a few others are not going to be able to "know everything" about fursuiting. We're not 100% experts about fursuit materials, construction techniques, etc. Nobody in the fandom can know EVERYTHING there is about fursuits and fursuiting.[/color]

Again, I understand this completely. However, something as simple as making a tail?

Offline SPark

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 10:37:46 pm »
Why is it the first response?  Because the staff are usually the first people to read the question and answer it.  I don't check this forum a billion times a day, it's usually just once or twice.

And honestly... when somebody posts about something as "simple" as making a tail, I am MUCH less likely to want to answer the question.  The answer is "you read tutorials, and then you try it and see how it goes." 

If you ask a question about a topic that doesn't have a billion "how to" tutorials out there, I'll answer it.  Otherwise I expect people to do their own research, and experiment and try their own solutions, and not be lazy and just ask somebody else to hold their hand and baby them through simple questions. 

Offline Shim

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 10:40:38 pm »
If you ask a question about a topic that doesn't have a billion "how to" tutorials out there, I'll answer it.  Otherwise I expect people to do their own research, and experiment and try their own solutions, and not be lazy and just ask somebody else to hold their hand and baby them through simple questions. 

I'll admit that I'm very much guilty of being babied through things, the first time. Just looking at a guide won't help me out much. I'm good after the first couple of times, but I need help the first time, for sure.

As a person, I find it easier for a person to say "Do this, then this." Rather than give me a long and detailed explanation on how to do something. Maybe it's a matter of preference though.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 10:45:38 pm »
Quote
Yes, I understand that. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with outside links. However, I don't see why that has to be the first response.

Asker: "Okay. But what about ______?"
Answer: "I'm not sure, but I think that this link may help you."

Sounds a lot more friendly to me.

So you're saying my post with the links sounded a bit cold and impersonal? I didn't have much time to write that post before I had to go to work early in the morning. All I could do was offer some quick links, then let others post whatever advice they wanted to share in future replies.
As for "being first", What do you mean?
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http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/

Offline SPark

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 10:54:52 pm »
Here's how this looks from my point of view.  You're saying that when people go out of their way to help you, but they're not going far enough out of their way to give you exactly what you want exactly the way you want it.

I am doing a HUGE favor by telling people how to do something that otherwise they would have to pay me to do for them.  So is anybody who knows how to make fursuit stuff.  It is taking away my business, and even more so in your case because you're selling what you make, so now you're competing with me, taking customers I otherwise could get.  Just providing a link is much nicer than I'm obligated to be.  Anything else is an extra, enormous favor, and you should be glad when you get it, not complain when you don't.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's becoming more and more of a sore spot with me.  I go out of my way to be nice to people who take business away from me, and then hearing somebody complain when I don't instantly step in and do so really kind of rubs me the wrong way.  I may stop giving advice entirely.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 11:05:19 pm »
Another thought: The thing about the Fursuit forum (or even the Artwork Techniques forum for that matter) is that a person can ask for advice on something, then expect to get replies to their questions. But if the replies are mostly text and don't offer enough pics, videos, and other alternative sources to "show" how something is done, then how do you expect the original poster to create whatever it is they asked about? As I said before, the links I posted were simply "extra options" that the OP could look through.
Text can be good to explain "some" things. But without pics, videos, step-by-step tutorials, and other outside resources, a person may feel "uninformed" about something and won't have all the necessary info. they need.
The pic you posted of that tail in that thread is nice, Shim. But if you want to help revnance more in his thread, Why not add some replies and show step-by-step how you created your tail?
Click link below for more fursuit information. ;)
http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/

Offline Shim

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2011, 11:25:33 pm »
The pic you posted of that tail in that thread is nice, Shim. But if you want to help revnance more in his thread, Why not add some replies and show step-by-step how you created your tail?
[/color]

I could do that. I think I will, next one I make.

I'm really not sure what else to say here. The fursuiting links thread was just on my mind when I decided to write this. I guess it's that sometimes, I just see some newer members get backed into a corner when asking basic questions, as if they're so unreasonable.

Sorry to have vented.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 11:43:25 pm »
I understand your concerns, Shim. ;) All me and/or others are doing by providing links, tutorials, etc. is giving members extra options to follow. I don't feel we're backing anybody into any sort of corner.
As for the Links thread I wrote that is pinned in the Fursuit forum, I just want to let you know that not every fursuit resource will be listed in that thread. If I did that, then that thread would go on and on for at least 20 or more pages.  :o  :D That thread will only have a small sampling of various fursuit resources for members to look through. I generally expect members to do their own research and be a savvy consumer shopper so to speak.  8)
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Offline Weisseman

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 08:41:51 am »
Why is it the first response?  Because the staff are usually the first people to read the question and answer it.  I don't check this forum a billion times a day, it's usually just once or twice.

This is very important to remember. Just because the first reply links somewhere else doesn't mean that's the end of the whole thread. The person just got there first and gave you advice that they considered useful and informative. Just because they didn't write the advice doesn't make it any less useful. You're more likely to get someone who has used tutorials than those who will post their personal techniques.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 01:57:25 pm by Weisseman »
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Links to fursuit making guides thread.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 09:18:09 am »
Quote
Why is it the first response?  Because the staff are usually the first people to read the question and answer it.

Not necessarily. I didn't have to be the first person that responded. I could have let others respond first. As I mentioned before, I saw the thread early in the morning before going to work and decided to offer a few quick links before heading out the door. When I post, I'm not trying to "be first" in replying or anything else of the sort. I just post because I have a passion for learning about fursuits and fursuiting and I enjoy helping people with their questions to the best of my ability.
Click link below for more fursuit information. ;)
http://forums.furtopia.org/kobuk's-fursuit-guides/