Author Topic: Furtopia button for websites?  (Read 3364 times)

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Offline ayame28

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Furtopia button for websites?
« on: April 15, 2003, 09:20:13 pm »
Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Furtopia had a little button that people could use on their pages to link over to the site?  You know the kind I'm talking about I think.  It could even be a contest between artists and folks could vote on the design they like best maybe?

Anyway, just a thought!!!  '<img'>
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Offline Benjamin

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2003, 09:58:59 pm »
I did one last Autumn at some point and have it on my own site, in it's links section.
Link banners are fairly easy to do, really.
I don't think we'd need a contest, per se, but if artists had done some suitably sized banners, they should feel free to use them on their own sites or submit them for sharing at furtopia.org itself. Webmasters should have options available to them for what banner they could have on their sites, from colour scheme to size, and even whether or not to have animated effects.
The most popular banner sizes tend to be 200x40, 120x60, 88x31, and 468x60. I see a lot of furry web sites making use of that first set of dimensions that I listed.
 
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Offline WhiteShepherd

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2003, 03:13:48 am »
Nice idea Ayame.  Currently we allow members to make there own buttons or use buttons that have been donated: http://www.furtopia.org/banner2  Anyone who creates a button/banner can have it shared here if they like.

On competition I am thinking (provided things clear up with Chaz) of having 3 Furtopia t-shirts.  Members have been asking for a Furtopia t-shirt and I think it would be a cool way to identify each other like at a con and such.

Currently I am leaning on having 3 different style shirts based on a theme and pricing shirts at $8 (a member thing and not to make a profit).  Members here on the forums will have a chance to vote on there 3 favorite submissions for the Furtopia t-shirt.  The top 3 designs would then be able to be ordered.  

So that's the "plan".  Hopefully we will be able to start this soon. '<img'>
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Offline DrakonianDanceR

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2003, 06:14:31 am »
I do have something to say related to this topic, so I may as well bring it up here.  WS: those buttons/banners are, in my opinion, not very good.  The reason for that is that they do not fit, or have any relation to the current Furtopia site.  With exception, perhaps, of the last button on that list.  I personally feel that the Furtopia site on the whole could do with a BIG make-over.  Currently, there is little style and continuity to the site, which I feel poorly represents the exceptional services Furtopia provides.  When I look at other sites designed and maintained by everyday people, with everyday lives (I mean people that aren't like paid website designers), not necessrily furry sites, I realise how good they can look, and how good Furtopia could be.  Actually, this forum is a very good example of this.  The Furtopia forums have a consistent colour scheme and style.  The format and layout globally matches.  The graphics at the top give a stylish look and a focal point to each page.

Anyway, I bring this up not to be negative, but to help improve Furtopia for all current and future users.  I feel once Furtopia has established a style scheme, then, link banners and buttons, following the style, could be produced, and used for link button/banner exchanges with other furry sites and services.

Talking about button size, I think that 90 (or 88) x 35 are common dimensions that are used.  I think it would be worth investigating first, as obviously, when a site has a list of link buttons, they all want to be the same size - and you don't want the Furtopia one to be right out of place.

Again, I wish to state that these are my opinions, and that I wish this to be taken as constructive critisism, rather than a negative rant.
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Offline Chaz_wolf

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2003, 01:26:29 pm »
I just wanted to say I agree with DrakonianDanceR there is alot of room for improvment on the main pages of the Furtopia site.
Even the Logo here on the message board is not the same as the logo on the main site pages.
I do feel that the whole thing needs to be updated and more introgated together.

I did try to make this sergestion before but nothing happed from it.

Just my oppion
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Offline WhiteShepherd

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2003, 01:10:40 am »
Ok a couple of answers here.

DrakonianDancer: First onto the buttons.  You do not think they are very good.  I respect your opinion.  I'm sure in your view they could be better.  So why are they there when they do not match the site?  For starters, they match the members' site and I appreciate any link.  As head admin, my original goal was and continues to be, supporting artists and helping them grow in any way I can.  I feel Furtopia is about offering freedoms. The freedom of creativity and keeping a unique personal self in one’s art is one of those I feel the world needs in an age of flashy "cool" stuff.  I am not the youngest fur and I've spent a lot of the 70's and 80's trying to break art away from what is considered "cool" and what is "not cool".  Myself, I appreciate effort, emotion, creativity, and personality.  I care less for the mastering of a style someone else figured was "cool" or grade A.  More to the point.  These buttons were made by members for there OWN personal web pages to advertise Furtopia.  I have tremendous appreciation and respect for that.  I make the banners (with permission) available for download as a courtesy to others who may find them handy.  We're a community of sharing.  If you do not see a banner you like it is because nobody has offered us one to those preferences yet.  If you have some ideas perhaps working with some artists or yourself could create one as an example?  Things shared help this place grow.  I would be more than glad to make it available. '<img'>

DrakonianDancer and Chaz: As far as site improvement.  Can the web page be improved?  Yes, anything has room for improvement.  Personally, I do not like our menu system (which I designed).  It was alright when we had a few services but is now a little difficult to navigate.  My own idea was to add a possible pull down menu that is easier to navigate by everyday users.

Beyond my original menu as far as our space theme goes, I think we follow an organized theme pretty well.  We have our standardized "header/footers" on each page.  Our table system follows a standard as well.  In fact, some of the pages are made by programs that I have written and they are formatted the same.

We do take suggestions from others.  If we feel it is a good idea, it could very well go into Furtopia's design.  Kada-Ru is head web builder and approves any changes.  From day 1, I have set the criteria for what "must" be an improvement and they are: All furtopia web pages must be cleanly visible from Microsoft Internet Explorer "and" Netscape/Mozilla without errors on any full featured OS (Furtopia's main pages will not be JUST for Windows users).  The web page must also display in a proper format cleanly at 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768.  Any info page (FAQ/Info) should be viewable/useable by Lynx as well.  All pages must load at a reasonable speed/time for dial-up users.  It may seem odd to some to have these rules but, we are here to offer support with a friendly paw to everyone no matter what their choice in OS or speed, first is priority.  That's why these rules have to stay as we work to improve showing we can be the “coolest” site on the net as well as the most helpful and reliable. '<img'>

Chaz:
Quote
I did try to make this sergestion before but nothing happed from it.


Chaz, we are a little shocked you made this comment.  If you remember you asked us if you could submit some suggestions for update.  I told you I would like to see some suggestions for an easier to use menu.  You provided us a sample webpage and we reviewed it talking with you in several discussions.  Part of those discussions was it was nearly identical to our own web page and seemed compressed at higher resolutions and there was no changes to the then current menu system.  You told us you were not finished and that you would get back to us after your move.  So, as requested we are waiting for your examples after your move (and life calms down).  The implication we ignored you after we listened to you and then waited for your examples at your request was a bit harsh.  We appreciate your help here very much Chaz.  If you feel left out remember you “need” to talk with us.

If by chance your reference was to us doing it ourselves, I do wish to make noticeable improvements to the menus I originally chose.  They are no longer easy to navigate.  I am planning an html based pull down menu but, I will be able work and put in hours with Kada on that after I finish programming and debugging the link scanner software I am writing.  Porn sites were trying to "link" to our members art.  So this project became a top priority.  Me and Kada spend easily 4+ hours (often many more) on Furtopia a day after a long days work.  We will eventually catch up to the requests. '<img'>

*moved post 4/17/04*

Taking Ayame's and DrakonianDancer's points I agree having a contest would be fun and helpful to give our users more options.  

I'll officially start the contest in few days with a page "any" member can vote at.  The button with the most votes will get placed on the main page.  '<img'>
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Offline DrakonianDanceR

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2003, 07:12:41 am »
Quote (WhiteShepherd @ April 17 2003, 6:10 am)
Ok a couple of answers here.

DrakonianDancer: First onto the buttons.  You do not think they are very good.  I respect your opinion.  I'm sure in your view they could be better.  So why are they there when they do not match the site?  For starters, they match the members' site and I appreciate any link.

No, I'm afraid not.  Link buttons are not made to fit the design and style of the site that the button is on.  They follow the image of the site they're linking to.

Quote
As head admin, my original goal was and continues to be, supporting artists and helping them grow in any way I can.  I feel Furtopia is about offering freedoms. The freedom of creativity and keeping a unique personal self in one’s art is one of those I feel the world needs in an age of flashy "cool" stuff.  I am not the youngest fur and I've spent a lot of the 70's and 80's trying to break art away from what is considered "cool" and what is "not cool".  Myself, I appreciate effort, emotion, creativity, and personality.  I care less for the mastering of a style someone else figured was "cool" or grade A.

That's all very well, but I wish to point out that you kept referring to yourself there.  We cannot judge anything fairly if we just see from our own eyes.  I repect your opinions, but I feel that not everyone would share them.  I understand you don't want Furtopia to follow whatever the latest cool trend is, and I agree with that - but I am not suggesting you do that.  My view is that Furtopia could do with a better image.  Not neccesarily 'cool' or 'trendy', but just a little smarter.  Not wanting to personally offend the designer(s) of the site, I feel it looks rather ametuer.  Much like a site a young kid would put together about his favourite Pokémon, for example.  This is how I see it, and how I know others will see it, too.  I shall address these issues further, a little later on.

Quote
More to the point.  These buttons were made by members for there OWN personal web pages to advertise Furtopia.  I have tremendous appreciation and respect for that.  I make the banners (with permission) available for download as a courtesy to others who may find them handy.  We're a community of sharing.  If you do not see a banner you like it is because nobody has offered us one to those preferences yet.

This goes back to what I said earlier - banners and buttons are not specifically designed for every site that wants to use them.  They are to match the style of the site they're linking to.  I do not like how you are pretty much saying to me, "I'm sorry if you don't like the buttons and banners already made, but that's because no-one's made them in the style you like blah blah", that's total crap - it is NOT the reason I dislike them at all.  The reason for my dislike of them is due to the lack of style, design and continuity to Futopia.  They bare absolutely no relation to the current design of the site.

Quote
If you have some ideas perhaps working with some artists or yourself could create one as an example?  Things shared help this place grow.  I would be more than glad to make it available. '<img'>

No, this is absolutely NOT what I am expressing.  I have not said ANYWHERE that I can do better than what has already been done.  Please, be clear on that.  I do NOT want this to turn into a "if you can't do better, or do it yourself, then shut up" issue.

Quote
DrakonianDancer and Chaz: As far as site improvement.  Can the web page be improved?  Yes, anything has room for improvement.  Personally, I do not like our menu system (which I designed).  It was alright when we had a few services but is now a little difficult to navigate.  My own idea was to add a possible pull down menu that is easier to navigate by everyday users.

A pull-down menu?  No, I would not like to see that.  I say this because I think it would make the page harder to navigate.  I, and others, I'm sure, would much rather have all the links clearly displayed.  More on this a little later.

Quote
Beyond my original menu as far as our space theme goes, I think we follow an organized theme pretty well.  We have our standardized "header/footers" on each page.  Our table system follows a standard as well.  In fact, some of the pages are made by programs that I have written and they are formatted the same.

I'm having difficulty to understand how you can think that.  The front page has every link on the left hand side, yet most of the other pages have links in an untidy table at the bottom.  Also, some links are repeated in the same table, some links do not work, and headers on the pages are not always correct.  And why have the links at the bottom of the page?  Common sense of a good site design would have them at either the top, or left-hand side.

Quote
We do take suggestions from others.  If we feel it is a good idea, it could very well go into Furtopia's design.  Kada-Ru is head web builder and approves any changes.  

From what I understand, Chaz did try to suggest and design some ideas for changes, but was not allowed to stray away from the current design, leaving his redesign ideas fairly useless and pointless.  Kada did not want her current design to be changed, and so Chaz was basically only allowed to change where the text was on the page, etc.  She also did not want DragonCity to be touched which is a big laugh.  I mean, DragonCity - how bad does that look.  You must admit that the design is very poor, and its integration with Furtopia is HIGHLY confusing.  I mean, when you slightly changed Furtopia's main page, like text size, links, and things like that, DragonCity remained unchanged, and so now it looks very untidy and neglected.  If you want Dragons, scalies, and the like to be able to have a separate part on the site (which I personally feel is a good thing), then make clear what is DragonCity, and what is Furtopia.  But I digress from what I was saying to what I quoted from you, above.  You may listen to suggestions from others, but as far as I've seen happen here, you just disagree with them all and defend yourselves.  PLEASE respect and understand that you might not always be right, and that other people DO have valid points, and don't bring issues up, just to cause arguments.

Quote
From day 1, I have set the criteria for what "must" be an improvement and they are: All furtopia web pages must be cleanly visible from Microsoft Internet Explorer "and" Netscape/Mozilla without errors on any full featured OS (Furtopia's main pages will not be JUST for Windows users).  The web page must also display in a proper format cleanly at 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768.  Any info page (FAQ/Info) should be viewable/useable by Lynx as well.  All pages must load at a reasonable speed/time for dial-up users.  It may seem odd to some to have these rules but, we are here to offer support with a friendly paw to everyone no matter what their choice in OS or speed, first is priority.

I feel it is respectful that you try to make Furtopia accessable to as many people as possible.  This was not an issue I had, though I do not want this to be used as the main reason and defense for my concern of poor page design, style, etc.

Quote
That's why these rules have to stay as we work to improve showing we can be the “coolest” site on the net as well as the most helpful and reliable. '<img'>

I assume you use the word 'cool' there in a different sense than you did earier in your post, otherwise it'd mean you're going totally back on what you previously said about it.

The rest of your post after that was directed towards Chaz, so I cannot speak on that.  I do hope that I expressed all of my thoughts, feelings, concerns, and whatever else, clearly and understandable in this post.  I shall now move onto my final points, and opinions.  If you want Furtopia to be taken seriously in the furry community, do not just ignore and argue against and defend yourselves on what I have said.  Anyone can do that, but I hope you can rise above that, and say "yes, we CAN improve, and we WILL improve".

Quote (WhiteShepherd @ April 17 2003, 6:17 am)
Taking Ayame's and DrakonianDancer's points I agree having a contest would be fun and helpful to give our users more options.  

I'll officially start the contest in few days with a page "any" member can vote at.  The button with the most votes will get placed on the main page. '<img'>

On a different topic, but this angers me.  You made an additional post with TEN MINUTES of your previous one.  EDIT YOUR POSTS IF YOU WANT TO SAY A COUPLE MORE SENTANCES A FEW MINUTES LATER.  We've been through a lot of business concerning this, amongst other things, and look what good that's done.  I do seriously hope that this new issue I have brought up will have more attention paid to it than the last.




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Offline Chaz_wolf

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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2003, 12:18:58 pm »
Quote (WhiteShepherd @ April 17 2003, 1:10 am)
Chaz:
Quote
I did try to make this sergestion before but nothing happed from it.


Chaz, we are a little shocked you made this comment.  If you remember you asked us if you could submit some suggestions for update.  I told you I would like to see some suggestions for an easier to use menu.  You provided us a sample webpage and we reviewed it talking with you in several discussions.  Part of those discussions was it was nearly identical to our own web page and seemed compressed at higher resolutions and there was no changes to the then current menu system.  You told us you were not finished and that you would get back to us after your move.  So, as requested we are waiting for your examples after your move (and life calms down).  The implication we ignored you after we listened to you and then waited for your examples at your request was a bit harsh.  We appreciate your help here very much Chaz.  If you feel left out remember you &#8220;need&#8221; to talk with us.

WhiteShepherd, what I was trying to say here is that as DrakonianDanceR pointed out my Ideas and changes were over-ruled by Kada-Ru as I tried to talk to you about before.
I was not aloud to move anything, or even change the font or background color.
This turned my attempts to sort out the problems I found into a joke.

But I also feel this is not the place to have this argument.

If you want help with this, let people come up with there own ideas, with only the rules you have already stated... let us use our own knowlage and ideas, then let everyone vote on it.. not set limits yourself first.
Quote
Kada-Ru is head web builder and approves any changes.  From day 1, I have set the criteria for what "must" be an improvement and they are: All furtopia web pages must be cleanly visible from Microsoft Internet Explorer "and" Netscape/Mozilla without errors on any full featured OS (Furtopia's main pages will not be JUST for Windows users).  The web page must also display in a proper format cleanly at 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768.  Any info page (FAQ/Info) should be viewable/useable by Lynx as well.  All pages must load at a reasonable speed/time for dial-up users.  It may seem odd to some to have these rules but, we are here to offer support with a friendly paw to everyone no matter what their choice in OS or speed, first is priority.


I worked hard on redisgin work before my move and sent kada-ru 4 or 5 different designs for both Furtopia and Dragoncity.. None of my ideas or sergestions were accepted.

If you don't like what I have said or disagree with it.. I am sorry.

This is just my feelings to your coments.
if you disagree then talk to me, here, email or PM I am here..

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Offline Kada-Ru

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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2003, 01:09:43 pm »
Chaz posted 4-17-03
Quote
I worked hard on redisgin work before my move and sent kada-ru 4 or 5 different designs for both Furtopia and Dragoncity.. None of my ideas or sergestions were accepted.

If you don't like what I have said or disagree with it.. I am sorry.

This is just my feelings to your coments.
if you disagree then talk to me, here, email or PM I am here..


I guess you forgot to also mention in your post the REASONS those you offered were not accepted.

Chaz, I am really dissappointed in you with your response here. Since you did bring it up, here, I am listing the three site changes (there were ONLY 3) you sent to me and I will post your email that contains them and my response to you about them and why they were not accepted.

Chaz's email on 3/5/03
Quote
Howls,

Well I am leaving this den on the 11th and not sure
when I will be back online.

I did redo the index pages with some minore changes
that you might like.
I am still working on some more ideas.

Here are the links

DragonCity redisgin =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Dragoncity/index.htm

Furtopia redisgn =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Furtopia/index.htm

or with the new header =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Furtopia/index2.htm

I hope this helps.
Let me know what you think.

*huge wolfy hugs*

Your wolfy
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Kada-Ru's reply email on 3/5/03
Quote
Here are the links

DragonCity redisgin =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Dragoncity/index.htm

I replied to this on IM. Don't like the color of the background.

We also need the pages to remain wide. Otherwise it is too cramped.

Furtopia redisgn =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Furtopia/index.htm

or with the new header =
http://www.pilot.furtopia.org/newdesign/Furtopia/index2.htm

This one looks like the header from Benjamin's Forums page. Unless he gives permission, I don't really want to be using others artwork unless authorized. Plus the background on it doesn't blend in too well with the background on the main page.

I hope this helps.
Let me know what you think.

Widen things back up and keep giving ideas. I won't know what I like till I see it but I think you are trying very hard! And that IS a plus!

If you don't have time before you leave to do any more that is fine. There is no hurry.

*huge wolfy hugs*

*huggles* back!

Kada-Ru


Chaz posted 4-17-03
Quote
Ideas and changes were over-ruled by Kada-Ru as I tried to talk to you about before.
I was not aloud to move anything, or even change the font or background color.
This turned my attempts to sort out

the problems I found into a joke.


As anyone can see from the above links, you WERE allowed to make changes to font/color/background etc. as you are NOW claiming you were not allowed.

Chaz posted 4-17-03
Quote
If you want help with this, let people come up with there own ideas, with only the rules you have already stated... let us use our own knowlage and ideas, then let everyone vote on it.. not set limits yourself first.


You were given a chance to show what you could come up with Chaz. They are posted above.
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Offline Chaz_wolf

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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2003, 01:21:11 pm »
Kada-Ru,

I have tried to work on improvments for the Furtopia main site.. I know you have your ideas of what you like, but you need to let others provide there imput.

The 3 designs you posted are just the first 3 I sent you and you had already put restictions on the page.. you say for exaple you dont like the color on the first page... but when I submit the blue scales instead of yellow.. no answer...
another example.. you said i could not change the wording of the text.

personaly benjman said i could use the baner from the Message board when i asked him at the time.

And i think the message board looks more prfesnional than the rest of the site. maybe it would be a good design starting place to work from ??

please again I state I do NOT want to fight with you.. but work with you.. I know other members that also want to help.

please let us work with each other to improve this great site and make it better..

Your wolfy
Chaz
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Offline WhiteShepherd

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2003, 01:23:29 pm »
DrakonianDancer:
Link buttons: That may be something we have a difference of opinion on.  Furtopia does not require a link back to the main page/Furtopia.  So any graphic that links back here is a courtesy given IMO.  I have no problem with it.  Having a closely themed banner available would be nice.  I was offering you a paw to help if you could and not to shut you up.

The Furtopia web site CAN see room for improvement.  That has been mine and Kada's decision for many months.  Site layout/design "is" open to change.  But as the original creators we will have final say on look and feel.  But we will try and be fair to others opinions/points of view.  We have been requesting examples from furs who have offered to help.  I understand my opinions are just those with there own strengths and weaknesses.  To help speed things along as far as updates to design I will request examples and an "open" discussion from the staff.  The pool of ideas and discussion Kada will eventually put into the main site design.

On Chaz: Chaz wanted to see the main site changed and asked if he could do anything to help.  We agreed improvements could/should be made.  He agreed to help me on this but moved before he was finished.  Us busy with work and projects we were not expecting his situation or time away.  In any case before his move I was having almost daily conversations with him.  We were to pick up with his ideas after he got back.  We were not aware of his grievance.  But since this project and all submissions will now be open discussion to staff discussion I feel this should help remedy this problem.

My use of "coolest" at near the bottom of the post was to imply the bridging of two camps of thought.

As far as my final post it was not meant to anger you.  I know this issue is a past grievance of yours.  I thought of adding it to my previous post.  But I felt do to the mood/length of the previous post a fresh start would be better.  Especially a post trying to encourage a fresh start and participation.  As common courtesy to you DrakonianDancer and for the finer points of netiquette.  I will combine my post and delete the second post.
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
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Offline Chaz_wolf

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Furtopia button for websites?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2003, 02:03:51 pm »
Again I would like to appologise to Kada-Ru and WhiteShepherd.

I am sorry for my comments before. I have just found out that some of my emails did not reach the intended recipeant and so I did not get the answer.

Both WhiteShepherd and Kada-Ru have put alot into making this a great place for us all and I wish them all the best in the future.

Okay I am leaving this topic now before I put any more feet in my mouth.

Chaz Ravenwolf

Sorry to have upset some great furs and frends becouse of overreacting.. '<img'>
When you are laying in the gutter, you can see the stars.

Email or message me to chat.
See my site = http://chaz-wolf.sytes.net