Author Topic: Have we become too dependant on electronics?  (Read 582 times)

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Offline Old Rabbit

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Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« on: March 23, 2018, 10:32:21 am »
My biggest concern is how everything is becoming dependent
on electronics. If we have a war using nukes the EMP's
will likely shut most if not all consumer electronics down.

Not counting the banking system, vehicles, power and telecommunications
systems. This will isolate the public as many radio receivers will
be dead along with most radio stations. No internet either.

All I am saying is the public should be educated to these facts. There
are simple receivers that could be built into weather alert radios so
people could hook it to a long wire and plug in a small headset. This
would work as well as crystal sets of old. Being a separate
circuit it should survive most EMP effects. As is we will likely
be caught with few people able to survive.

Imagine large cities with computer controlled power
and water systems down.  It will only take a short
number of days before deaths will quickly rise. I  very
much doubt if there is much if any civil defense
planning. So the public at large will likely be on it's own.

During the false alarm of a missile attack in Hawaii the
public had little or no idea where to go or how to survive.
This alone should be a warning that we need to educate
the public much better. Instead they were only concerned
about not having any more false alarms. 

China or Russia could explode nukes at an altitude of 50
miles above us, and shut the country down. With little or
no structural damage at all. There is no guarantee our
military would be able to function very well either.

It has been known ever since the 1960's that EMP's
will damage solid state circus but I doubt if manufactures
have done much to protect electronics from this threat.

I hope I am wrong, but big business wants to make
money not protect our electronics they would love to
replace at our expense. 

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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2018, 01:24:07 pm »
Yes, that is a danger. And a big one at that. Now I might live in a different country, but I know that when there's a power blackout, there would be a LOT that won't work anymore at all. It's good that it's there, don't get me wrong. But if there suddenly is a power cut of any kind, we're in a lot of trouble and it's getting worse until we actually get one. Very few people/companies/institutions have a backup plan for when a power cut happens. Uh, they usually have one, but not one for a power cut of days. Just for one that lasts a few hours...

With that in mind, if an other country manages to take down a part of the Dutch electricity network, a part of the country will be disrupted quickly. Not a nice thing to think about. On the flip side, it would be a very effective way to counter light pollution!
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Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2018, 02:35:27 pm »
It likely depends on what era you were born in. I don't freak out if my cel phone is left behind. Got along fine without a pocket calculator until taking advance math classes. May have been the last of the litter to go online. I see many folks driving around with one hand on the wheel and the other holding an Ipod or Tablet and marvel at how empty their lives would be without such devices in constant use.
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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2018, 08:34:15 pm »
Old Rabbit, you sure have hit it on the head!
This is a topic I fuss over a lot. 
I agree with you Old Rabbit, education is key.  Knowing what will happen will keep us from being surprised, and we will remain calm and civilized.


WALL OF TEXT COMING!

Its funny, I have worked in water treatment, father worked in sewer treatment.  Went to college with a prof. who worked for a power grid and talked about EMP/solar flares.  Brother is a prepper.  I am  HAM radio op.  So EMP comes up from time to time in our family discussions  :-[


I do not want to alarm anyone...   :o
here is what I have learned about hacking the grid and EMP.
hacking the grid is too easy.  or at least it has been in the past.  Wauwei brand routers were used in some grid systems, and later found to have back-doors engineered into them by the Chinese company who made them.  Our power grid is on its own internet, but has links to the normal internet.  It can be hacked...


It is rumored that America and allies wrote code called Stuxnet that was put into the Iranian nuclear plant to cause its motors  to speed up and down at random to fatigue the impeller blades on the centrifuges.   It caused it to blow up.  McAfee found it in OUR homeland WWW networks later and uncovered the plot!


You can engage and disengage a contactor to put a generator on line and off line in rapid succession, and cause it to JERK like a bomb went off.  Its called losing sync.  Its disastrous.  (there is a video somewhere of this...)


In college, I and a few other students, with supervision, put a small hydro generator on the grid.  It was nerve racking.  Do it wrong, and the generator made in 1918 breaks off its mounts and leaps into the air!  You change the speed of the generator by adjusting water flow until its at almost the same speed as the grid.  Then when the three light bulbs are all out, the phase is right, and you can throw the switch and lock-sync it to the grid.


In America, hydro plants are all owned by the US government, or at least controlled by them (Western Area Power Administration?  Another job interview… ).  And for good reason.  for black start capability.  if the grid is down, neuc plants are immediately put into shutdown.  They have to have power to start up, and need constant power for cooling pumps or else Fukishima.  coal plants similar story.  only plants able to come up from nothing are hydro.  Hydro plants get power on the grid, and that power gets others on line.  Syncronization is a challenge.  you can not just put a generator on grid.  its not that easy.


Most if not all grid tie solar will also STOP when there is no power on the grid.  This is multifold.  It is to protect the grid, and the workers repairing it.  Power outage happens, electrical workers isolate the line from the active grid, fix it and then put it back on line.  But if your solar inverter turns on, it kills many innocent people on the line during the repair.  The inverters are therefore not allowed to work without a grid voltage present.  Also, imagine 100,000 solar inverters trying to synchronize to the grid in the case the grid is down.  This is not possible.  They will all fight.  There has to be a master “clock” and that is the power grid its self.  So don’t think that your solar system will work, unless you have grid isolation and power storage.  Sorry.


Many people do not realize that the generators, transformers and such in the grid are often custom made by hand to order, with lead times of 4+ months!  we are not talking get it at Home Depot.  we are talking about transformers that handle 38KV and 550Mega Watts and transform it to 330KV for transmission.  Such transformers when they blow are catastrophic and take out other things in the area. 


I remember being at a coal fired 850MW power plant for a job interview, and everything there is run at the edge of failure.  (Read extreme environments).  Anything out of tolerance can cause big trouble.  There were 3 generators, 2 operational, 1 in maintenance mode.  If one were to blow, all is lost.  People die!


An EMP will as you know induce DC currents into the grid, like a solar flare can do. Similar mechanisim.  This DC current is not normal on the AC power grid.  It causes transformers to "saturate" and they lose their ability to do their job.  They heat up and boil the oil and blow up.  Protection circuits also kick in and drop systems from the grid.


The currents made by EMP can also blow electronics of any kind.  Radios that are connected to leads, power leads, RF cables, anything at all, are susceptible.  Only equipment sealed into metal cases with no holes are going to survive.  This would be like a back up HAM radio.  no computers, sorry no cell phones folks!  one reason to get your ham license.  (and if you do, please get a license and study and follow the rules)


And above ground neuc detonations cause issues for Ham radio too, but they can operate without a framework in place.


power lets you get gas (petrol)  into the vehicle.  electricity lets hospitals run and traffic lights work.  lets police talk to each other.  Power is used for everything.  power is out for long enough, you really think you are getting out of town?  Nope.  All the panicked people are doing the same thing.  This has happened before I bet. 

I bet airports will also not work!   x_x


gas pumps dead, traffic lights out, multiple accidents, no police support, anarchy.  it could happen.  tensions build, people get hurt.  I see it coming.
I honestly believe that if an EMP hits above a large city, its going to be catastrophic, not at first, but in hours to days.


Here it is...
while at my local water company for a job interview, I learned how it works.  water quality is controlled by the computers.  Chlorination, fluoridation, UV dis-infection, sand/coal bed cycling, water pups, water tanks, all controlled by a central computer.  There is no backup at the site I was at!  its extremely massive and complex.  Using old parts that are hard to find.  If they get hit by EMP, that water plant would be at ground zero, and have to rebuild the system from scratch!  It would take months, or longer.  In that time , water could stagnate in the pipes, get algae growths, clog valves, run dry in some neighbor hoods.  Water pressure would be variable, and maybe have siphons in some areas if pressure and valves are not operated right.  it would cause a big headache.


Just because water systems "work by gravity" doesn't solve it.  actually nowadays, many water systems rely on pumps.  only some areas will have water by gravity alone!  in the city i was talking about, 2 subdivisions used pumped water.  the old part of town was gravity fed.  think about that!


And for sewage treatment.  I actually studied for my D license last year.  I learned that its basically the same thing as water treatment.  Thankfully sewage treatment works mostly by gravity.  But again there are "lift" stations that need pumps.  there is chlorination, process pumps, etc...  And if the sewer lines back up, they can come into your house destroying it.  And hydrogen sulfide gas is generated by stagnant sewage and is explosive. So is methane.  It needs to flow or it’s a big problem.


my dad recalls stories of no power at the poop plant..  He was running around like a mad man, turning hand valves, using portable generators to power pumps.  he was a pro with decades of experience. Now, when he retired all the valves were replaced with electric-operated-only models.  previously, they were electric with manual override.  which do you think is a good choice?  His manager thought there was no need for manual override!  Bad idea.  And the new employees only knew how to use the computer to make the system work.  Bad idea!

There is no backup generator that can do the job bringing up a large town or city.  we will all be on our own.

you can do nothing adequate to protect circuits from EMP unless you use special designs, special parts, and take special precautions.  its the Achilles heel of all electronics. its super costly and only military has it.

Hopefully it never comes.  But if it does, few will be ready.  And those who are ready, will stick out like a sore thumb because they are okay.  And they will be targeted by scared neighbors. 

***

The only thing we can all do is to agree to not panic and to have a fall back plan.  We will need to work together or die together.  Our culture has a lot to say about this.  we need to be a family and look past differences and love each other like never before.

Again, think Fukishima.  The Japanese seemed to be okay because they worked together.

Humanity worked and lived without power.  We can do it again.  We just need to remember how.  We need to remain civilized.

Maybe as furs, perhaps we all can think more animal like when needed, and will be more ready to adapt?  We are also more friendly and accepting which should go a long way towards cooperation in a survival situation.  Animals do not need electricity.  Just water food shelter and love. 
(And part of my furriness is my independent "wolf" spirit that makes me be ready and prepared.  I often think "what would an animal do"?)

I like to think we furs will be more ready than others!

What do YOU think?  Are you ready?  Will being furry change how you react or prepare?
What scenario do you think will play out in your local area?
Will you be willing and able to help others?
Thoughts?

<<ADMINS...If this is too long, please tell me and I will refrain from doing so in the future.>>
Thanks Old Rabbit for the thought provoking post!
 :) (:
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2018, 10:17:50 am »
No problem on the large post Jade. Just keep it on topic
and you can write a book. :D

Seems it's all about saving a buck these days. Your right Jade.
All neccary systems like water  sewer and power should have
back up and Emanuel over ride. I hate to think of sewer backups
and water loss, not counting power.

Due to having little eyesight I will have to depend on others. I fear
it will take a disaster to wake people up to the dangers we live
with and have created. I live in an area where gravity handles
water and sewer, but it wouldn't last long without power for the
local town.
 

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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2018, 03:23:40 pm »
And back on target, I've read reports on  external intelligence and it's effects on the brain. In some cases it was speculative using information compiled from different studies on memory and synapsis development. In others it was actual experiences from people in the study. One particular study centered around GPS. In some cases the person relying on GPS could not find their way to a place they have frequently been before without it. They exhibited no external environmental awareness. Had no memory of their surroundings wile traveling to their destination.  But this was a minority of those studied.

There is a balance point of intelligence when relying on external memory.  First. The greater amount of cognitive elasticity or how much and how quickly you can learn, the greater amount of external memory you can access successfully. Secondly and most effective. Pre synapsis and muscular memory development. Simplified, the more you already know the more external information you can use. When building simple shelving. A person who has successfully used a skill saw before will have a better chance of success than someone who hasn't. No matter how many videos or tutorials are watched and read.   

The biggest danger to synapsis development comes when a person relies completely on external intelligence. I will use myself as an example. I have an IQ of 140. I read at a collage level. I have the spelling ability of a 3rd grader. Yes. That is the actual level of my spelling ability. I am 55 years old. I have never grasped, comprehended or understood spelling. I use spellcheck like a fish drinks water.  :D It's become a crutch. I've learned many words simply by spelling them over and over again. However your reading a post from someone who can forget how to spell "who". The difference between my cognitive development is I didn't have the option of external intelligence. I had nothing to rely on except my brain. If spellcheck wasn't a thing? Yes I would fight harder to understand spelling. And I would think that by now I'd, at the very least, would have a 5th grade level of spelling. At the same time. As a kid I would listen to classical music. Memorize each individual instrument's part. Then 'play' the entire orchestration or just the parts I was interested, back in my head. I thought that was normal.

So yes, from reports I've read and using my own personal experience there is a danger in relying solely on external intelligence. Both cognitive elasticity and critical thinking are compromised. 
It's been said that rats can gain access to your home by climbing up threw your toilet. I prefer to use the front door.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 09:27:39 am »
It appears the old saying "Use it or loose it" is more true than not.

I remember in the 1980's schools started using compupters at the
suggestion of APPLE. Most likely so they could sell a lot of computers.
Now days computers do aid kids with their needs to learn
history, and english along with other languages.
But in the 1980's they were mostly learning how to use software,
or writing simple programs.  In many cases they used them to play
games. Learning how to run programs might be fun, but most software
can be learned in a few weeks. Teaching that in school is a waste since
the software is constantly changing. Better to wait and learning
what you need in college.

Still schools today require having a laptop or tablet to do school
work. I think they should teach  the basics using pencil and paper
so our kids could manage without the computer if need be.

I myself started using a pocket calculater soon after they came out
in the 1970's. Now I find trying to do math in my head isn't as
easy as it used to be. Might be partly due to age, but reading and
doing math with the brain is one way to stay mentally healthy. Now
with the personal assistants like Amazons Alexa, does away with needing
to use your mind to spell or remember data.

Many of us may end up being more like robots if we let our
machines do all the thinking for us. Some of us need the
help, but it's always better to do your own work when it's
realistic to do so.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 10:02:29 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 11:24:49 am »
Both of you have great points!
I have used a calc since forever... "I" (using calculator) can solve complex equations fast.  But my dad excells at knowing how to pay with cash, totalling scores in games like Yahtzee, figuring dimensions for wood working on the fly, etc...   I envy that ability.  HIS abilities for mental math are more useful and relevant in the real world.  Who cares if I can solve for complex roots?  No one.

My spelling ability is constantly degrading due to auto correct and the like.
I have no idea what myIQ might be,  but it is getting lower I think...  ( 140 would be nice to have...)
I think that my use of external memory is partly to blame.   

Thankfully, I do not get lost easy, yet.
And I love GPS and geocacheing.
So those tech aides  have not yet degraded my ability too much so far.

I have no ability to do what you mentioned, Cause, regarding music.   
I love music of most types,  I can not assign notes to them, nor play them back in my head.

So the trick is to know when and how much to use external memory aides/ electronics?

I agree Old Rabbit,  I learned most things in school by pencil and paper and did fine.  Hand drafting was cool.  I still use it.  Not needing a computer to find the center of a circle is handy when you are faced with something as large  as 4 foot in size.  Use the geometric constructions taught the old way, size doesn't matter so much. String, pencil, straight edge.  Would work 1000 years ago, will work 1000 years from today.  Can we say that about our electronics?  No?

These posts make me think we are all at risk of overusing tech if our goal is to retain some mental skills.
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Offline Rocket T. Coyote

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 08:30:07 pm »
All modern passenger vehicles use electronic ignition. Some even have navigation and satellite radio. An EMP attack would render such vehicles useless. A bicycle can get one out of town relatively quickly using routes inaccessable to motor vehicles. One article I read suggested a single-speed two-wheeler as the basis for such a "bug out bike".
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2018, 08:10:52 am »
All modern passenger vehicles use electronic ignition. Some even have navigation and satellite radio. An EMP attack would render such vehicles useless. A bicycle can get one out of town relatively quickly using routes inaccessable to motor vehicles. One article I read suggested a single-speed two-wheeler as the basis for such a "bug out bike".

All this is why I started the post to begin with. Our vehicles have become so computerized
they would likely need a new transmission and engine to operate.  Not counting dash
controls and gauges. Perhaps even the brakes.

So get a two wheeler. Perhaps a folding one for an emergency. Oh you better keep up
the exercise, those things won't go if your not in good shape.


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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 12:16:11 pm »
Quote
Have we become too dependant on electronics?


YES!  :goldpissed:
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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 06:14:45 pm »
I guess that's a way to answer quickly, unlike me... :-[
To summarize my previous thoughts...

My answer to the original question is
Yes.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2018, 08:43:24 am »
In ancient times man survived by hunting and gathering.
Much as animals do in the wild. This limited human population
based on available food. Then man discovered the use of
fire, and this allowed man to move into colder climates, and a
way to cook food. This improved mans health and mental
ability.

Each time man has discovered a new technology it has expanded
the population of man. When man started farming he was able to
live in one place instead of the constant need to be on the move
hunting for food.  This allowed man to create large villages and
eventually countries along with a large growth in population.

The problem is when man uses tech to grow he sets his self up
for potential calamities like famine, disease, or other natural disasters. So
instead of loosing a small tribe of people we can loose millions.

This not to say we should limit mans growth in population or technology,
but to have plans that limit problems tech can create. Just as villages built
storehouses allowing for years of famine.

Unfortunately I fear man as in the past we will put off fixes due to their
expense. Only finding the fix would likely have been cheaper in the
long run. Paying the cost in lives as well as money.
what is needed. Such as

« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 08:48:38 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 01:10:47 pm »
Well, it happened. Schiphol, the Netherland's biggest airport, was hit by a power outage for a few hours this morning. Chaos ensued around the airport and several flights got cancelled, but I don't think the people there learned anything from it.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2018, 08:29:44 am »
Well, it happened. Schiphol, the Netherland's biggest airport, was hit by a power outage for a few hours this morning. Chaos ensued around the airport and several flights got cancelled, but I don't think the people there learned anything from it.

I don't doubt it. In cases like that people blame other people instead of technology. We
need to educate the kids. I think if they are taught to understood the risk they would
demand more backups and manuel controls when adults. 

As is it's just gloom and doom rhetoric when many people see warnings about tech
loss consequences.

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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 08:47:35 am »
If it can be designed with no manual control, it just as easily can be designed with one.
Just needs to be planned in ahead of time.
Also think of failure modes and pay the price to plan for them, like backup systems.

It's a choice of  cost,  convience, reliability.
What about cars with no key lock on doors?  How do you get in if the battery dies?  How do you change the battery if its under the front passenger seat?  Why not have one lock and key?  Just an example.
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 02:32:30 pm »
Apparently Schiphol had an emergency power supply, but it was not used because it wasn't an emergency. Instead they closed their doors for an hour. The top staff at Schiphol now want to start a private investigation on what caused the power outage. The electric company claims the demand for electricity was higher than expected due to the heavy rain the day before.

Soooo nope, as expected nobody learned anything.
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Offline Citr

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 08:27:08 am »
I definitely can't speak for everyone, but I personally sure am way too dependent on electronics.

Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 10:18:03 am »
I hate to say it, but most highly populated areas are about as safe
as someone in a computer controled car or airplane. A failure of the 
water supply alone would cause many people to die. It only takes 3
days to die from dehydration. Food isn't as big a problem, most can
live for weeks without much food. Everyone should keep at least a 3
day supply of water for their family at all times. Longer the better. If you
have a water heater it has about 40 gallons. Just remember to not open
your hot water faucets as much of the water could be sithoned out with
loss of water pressure.

Don't try drinking river, pond, or standing water without boiling it first, as
it will likely make you very sick otherwise. In the distan past many people
suffered from intestinal ailments due to drinking river or lake water. They
were unaware of the bacteria they were ingesting. 

Think of it as an insurance policy for you and your family. Your cities
water system is likely controled by electronics and electric pumps.

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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 01:26:54 pm »
It is amazing how much  we trust things to work perfectly all the time.

If you still have a tank water heater.  Many people are switching to the so called tank less heaters.
A family member of mine got a new tank type water heater.  It is gas powered,  yet needs electricity to work. I asked them what happens when the power is out.  They didn't know.   One look in the manual said it would not work.  So as it is,  the old school design of gas and thermocouple wins.
People are not designing things today with survival situations in mind.  They used to do that.
They design them for higher profit margins and less environmental impact, or so they say.

Cars don't even have spare ties anymore,  and if they do they are limited used,  and that is also for many SUVS. Ha

Ham radio retains the can do spirit,  where most equipment can run off of car batteries if needed. Which can be solar charged...and the equipment can often be repaired or modified,  or built from scratch.

I have 25 gallons of water in the house at any time.  It is sitting here by me now.   Why?
Landlord often pays water bill late and they threaten to shut me off.   So I have water on hand.
Housing situation here in Denver area is so dire that I can't move and must put up with bad landlord.
So relying on myself is best.

Yes we often do rely on tech too much. A house of cards.
Nothing is repairable it seems, things are throw away,  and tech HAS to be in everything even if we don't want it to be.
To many interdependencies to be reliable for serious situations.
Everything had software in it.   Doesn't have to be that way. Not everything deserves to be a smart device.
We should be the ultimate smart device.


If things were designed and built for simplicity and function there would be nothing setting companies apart and the consumer would have an easy time sifting through all the garbage and noise and make a  informed decision.  Then people would buy only what they needed and wouldn't pay to much for it.  Companies would go out of business.
So the tech is forced into products that do not need it so that we are fooled/ peer pressured,  into buying it because it's cool.
Then it falls early because is error prone and complex,  or programmed to fail early.
Whereas the guy with the cheap simple product is still okay 15 years after he bought it...
Hmm....

You only need so much tech.  Life's needs are rather simple after all.
My opinion.

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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2018, 09:52:49 am »
People are wanting a Jetson type world that does everything
for them. This is already biteing us. When I was a child you 
couldn't sit on a couch and operate your tv ,radio, much 
less any entertainment device. When the phone rang you 
had to find the phone to answer it. You didn't carry it around. 
Personally the last thing I want in my pocket os a phone I 
have to answere. In fact I still don't have a cell or smart   
phone. I have no plans to get one either. Not as long as 
I can use a landline. It wouldn't surprise me if they do 
away fith them in the future.

Robots will likely be doing even more in the future. Not
just mowing the lawn or vacuuming the rug. People are
going to find out if they sit too much they will loose their
health. I think this is partly the reason our children are less
healthy. That and all the thousands of new chemicals that
have been introduced into our environment over the years.

Unfortunately most people are reactive instead of being
proactive. So they wait till a disaster occurs to do anything. 

This isn't new and is a good reason to want our leaders to
plan for us. But they won't because being prepared costs
a lot of money. So to survive our descendants will likely
pay the ultimate price.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 10:00:11 am by Old Rabbit »
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Offline Michen_S

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2018, 11:54:27 am »
Schiphol finished their research and it turns out there also was a problem with their emergency power supply. Now this means a few things.

1. They already had to shut down for a few hours and a lot of chaos already happened when a blackout occured for a few hours. If this was a few days long, they wouldn't be open during those days, and slowing the economy in this country. They don't have ANY alternatives besides the emergency power system that wasn't working at the time.
2. There were problems with the emergency power system in the first place! Now this could happen at any time, of course, but a part of it was that a few of the switches in the emergeny power system were apparently not set up correctly. It makes me wonder when the emergency power system was last tested, which is kinda concerning.
3. Schiphol was built in WWI and was a military basis back then. It gained a role of civilian transportation before 1930. That was in a time before electronic check-in gates or automatic doors didn't even exist yet. Granted, Schiphol was already fairly big for it's time when WWII started, and was way less dependant on electronics back then. It's unlikely that Schiphol will ever be able to go back to that level of depencency again.

Don't get me wrong, electricity brought a lot of good things in this world. However, as one of our greatest assets in our modern world, it is also THE biggest weak point. If we don't have electricity for a few days, we have a huge problem whereof we no longer know how to fix it. No matter how much I dislike light pollution in our country, I hope it's a problem we won't run into. Even though we inevitably will the way things are going now, as we're still becoming even more dependant of it.
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Offline Kay Alett

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2018, 09:05:25 pm »
I would say that like all things the issue is complicated.
In many ways yes, we have become extremely dependent on electronics for our daily lives but these electronics have vastly improved lives.
Now yes, there are those people who take it too far and become addicted to the screen and shut out everything else in the world to their own detriment, this does not mean that the electronics are bad, just that they are bad for those people. Moderation and all that y'see.

Some people should not be given certain devices if that device is going to be a detriment to their quality of life.
As a society and culture I think it's important that we not become too focused on the future that we forget the more practical means of living. When I watch Star Trek I watch with hope that one day in the future we too will have replicators that will make whatever we need from practically nothing and that our energy needs will no longer be so constraining that we must feel the need to wage war for our fuels to keep the lights on.
Yet when I watch Star Trek I also tend to notice that there is a striking lack of paper anywhere. Oh they still say "paper" or "paperwork" but they're not using paper. They're using PADDs.

I don't want to live in a future where I can make anything I want from a nigh infinite power source but cannot make a little paper airplane to fly across the office and lodge in a Klingon's forehead ridges.

Basically what I'm saying is we should not let ourselves forget that while electricity makes our lives convenient and gives us things we might never have dreamed of before and even helps keep people alive, we should not become complacent and take it for granted. And don't forget to put the screen down once in a while and be alone with your own thoughts.
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Offline Old Rabbit

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Re: Have we become too dependant on electronics?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2018, 10:13:21 am »
As with all new inventions the use of electronics should allow for
backups that can replace devices that provide what we need
to survive. Like water, waste removal, food, transportation,
and heating our. personal environments.

Currently we are not doing these things. So any disaster that
shuts down power and or communication will put our lives at risk.

It's a catch 22 because the electronics cut costs, but providing
backups would remove the cost savings. This would be an
deterrent to advances in electronics. So we have to decide if we
want to put those in the future at risk or not. Unfortunately it's
likely big business and the rich who will decide. As we know
their decisions follow the money, not our lives.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 10:26:33 am by Old Rabbit »
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