Author Topic: Please explain something to me...  (Read 3140 times)

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Offline Anima

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« on: July 16, 2004, 10:12:40 am »
Luckily, my own writing fills such a small niche that most would never even think of stealing it.  And those that do...well, the particular community I write for would recognize that pretty quick.

As for poetry.com?  Just a friendly warning to everyone: It's a scam.  It's part of a very old phenomenon known as 'Vanity Press'.  Yes, you do get your poem printed in a book, but *anyone* could get into that book if they paid. It's no indication at all of your talent, and who buys the book?  You do.   I don't know about the copyright they offer, but I really wouldn't trust them for anything. ;K)

Offline RedFeather

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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2004, 10:03:59 am »
Quote (cyber_lupine @ July 12 2004, 4:57 am)
Could you show me an example, i dont go looking around the art here

Not particularly, sorry, but if you're quick on the draw, you can see some stuff posted, then some arguements and name calling once it's identified as stolen, before the admins either delete it or lock it, or whatever.  Things more or less seem to have been fixed for a while though.  Which is nice.  '<img'>

Offline Zarathus

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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2004, 03:30:00 am »
For a start, over the internet things seem very easy to copy, or steal. A lot of the time, if someone has something of theirs stolen online, and complains about it, they'll just get the "if you dont want it stolen, dont post it" type thing... which has never seemed entirely... right to me. Even if there are a lot of people online who will steal, or copy, there still are a lot more, from what I've seen, who just want to be able to look and enjoy. And... being an artist myself, I know it can feel nice to show off art, and get feedback for it, even if you do run the risk of having it stolen.

A main cause, I would say, for theft, is those who are stealing, simply lacking the ability to do what it is that they're taking, or thinking something along the lines of "That is such a great idea! must... labell as mine!" ... sort of thing.
Jealousy, and wanting to look good is a big issue too, I think. I've known of reasonably good artists, who seem to still feel the need to steal from others, despite the fact that if they tried, they could possibly do as good as what it is they're stealing. Although... when you catch people doing that, and try to expose them, I've found that you often get the "I'm an artist. I dont need to steal" ..thing, which to me just seems like a cheap excuse x.X;

But... it would be nice if people worked more towards becoming as good as what they were stealing, rather than flat out... stealing it. I know it can take a long time... even years to even start to get anywhere...but being able to do something that is your own, and taking credit for it, seems a lot better than taking something of someone elses, and taking credit for it.
There are artists, and writers who I've always looked up to... and I think all I can really do is work towards becoming as good as they are '<img'>

Offline Peaches

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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2004, 12:42:05 am »
Registering it also allows you to sue for statutory damages as well as attorney's fees in case of infringement, as opposed to basic "actual losses", which may be difficult to calculate.

The mythical "mail myself a copy and don't open it" method offers little more protection than the non-registered copyright, and is generally a waste of a stamp.  In the U.S., only registration with the Copyright Office is acknowledged as legal registration.

Pasted from http://www.rexx.com/~jaguar/copyright.html#4

Copyright FAQ

I didn't post this to be mean, but for protection. I'd hate for something to happen where someone stole someone else's work (Trust me, I know what it's like). It's be best legal way to protect your work is for a copyright. Anyone can say they created something before you and the mailing thing wouldn't hold up in court as well as copyright. Not that it's not contestable, but it's more reliable. I got the site from a fur on my livejournal, but I forgot who. I hope this info helps anyone out. It helped answer quite a few of my questions.   ':?:'
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Offline Kada-Ru

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« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2004, 10:17:59 pm »
RedFeather Posted: July 11 2004, 11:41 am
Quote
I've noticed a recent rash of claiming other's work as their own in Furtopia, whether it be art or writing.  I think you all know what I'm talking about here.

Uhm.... before we go blaming Furtopian's for such things, I think it would be best to send a PM to the admins to first investigate things so that things don't get out of control any more on these forums then they already have in the past week.

Instead of posting something on the forums pointing fingers, send a message to the admins with your 'proof' for the admins to take whatever action is deemed.

Thank you all for your cooperation.
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Offline Eidolon

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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2004, 05:22:03 pm »
Actually, I said unsealed over sealed and just realized it... ':shock:' M'bad...lol
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Offline Kada-Ru

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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2004, 05:13:32 pm »
It actually should be sealed and mailed back to you so there is proof of it being yours by the post marked date.
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Offline Eidolon

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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2004, 05:11:51 pm »
Quote (raging gryphon @ July 11 2004, 5:41 pm)
I have one segeustion givin to me by my creative writing teacher, when you produce anything do it in pen and paper first and make a copy before any one sees it. Mail the original to youreslf for the federal dated post mark and never open it, use the copy to retype onto your hard drive. If any one happens to get thier hands on your work to claim it you have a sealed federally dated envolope with your original in it for physical evidence of the work you produced. It's not flawless but I have seen it save one poet in my class from losing her work to such a thief.




Raust Shieldra

You can do this with artwork too, I did this with my characters from my comic; Tidal, Hundo, Dracher...etc...now I have a safe copy sitting in my room sealed and untouched...




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Offline Agent_Blayze

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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2004, 11:04:33 pm »
Well, here's my two cents on this whole thing.

It is one thing if someone claims an art piece to be theirs. However, what harm comes from it than annoying the artist and/or the person's copyrighted character?

In my opinion, the real crime is when the "theif" makes a profit on someone else's work. If someone uses one of my pics, oh well, they should've asked, but no harm really done. But if they sell it or make some kinda money off of it without my permission, I wanna piece o' the pie, darn it! That, I think, should be the basis of any kind of lawsuit.

Offline Peaches

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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2004, 07:41:54 pm »
I hereby certify that the above poem is my original work and that all rights to this poem are mine. I am entering this poem as an honest and true effort of my personal creativity and unique artistic vision, and I understand that it will be published on the Internet as my original work and under my own copyright by The International Library of Poetry (poetry.com). The community of poets who use this forum for self-expression will also be able to view and share my poem, always as my original work and under my own copyright in the various ways described on this website.
*pasted from Poetry.Com entry form.

I'm not saying that what you posted isn't true. I've never had a problem with them, I've never bought any of the poetry books and my poems from back in highschool are still in the database with new copyrights. I can though, say that I have written a lot of poetry that never made it into the database. I even wrote a silly one about my room being dirty, which was never published. I'm not saying that it's an excellent resource to get a poem copyright, but it's an option. I never entered the contests either....but this is hardly sticking to the furry subject, so I'll leave it at that. '<img'>
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Offline Simo

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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2004, 08:22:58 pm »
Quote

I cannot say whether the last was actually written by the poster or not as I have no proof either way, but if not, please explain to me why these people are doing this?  It's called plaigerism people and it's one of the worst crimes you can commit.  Once you're caught, it goes on your record and sticks with your the rest of your life.  You lose your credibility.  People don't trust you.  Companies don't hire you and no one beleives your research.  You can't get anything published and your career goes down the drain.  I've seen it happen.  It's not pretty.

So please explain to me why people voluntarily do these things?  Especially on something so little as claiming to have written or drawn something they found online?  Something so small can totally ruin your credibility.

Why? First of all, Furry fan-dom is largely driven by internally produced art, unlike most other fan-doms whose objects of devotion are created outside the fan-dom. Now, as for myself, I can't draw worth a damn. However, I found other ways to contribute by coding a Furry application, and by writing Furry stories. All too many people are too lazy to find their own niche. So they seek a fast track to acceptance by pulling a "fast one".

You also see the same type of nonsense within the amateur radio community. Guys who run rigs putting out 10KW or more just so that they can win some contest, even though all they get out of it is "braggin' rights". What good is that if you didn't play by the rules? All too often, the ethos is win no matter what. "Ends justify the means", that sort of thing.

It's also an extension of a public-at-large problem. Cheating has become a way of life at school. If you don't cheat, then you might miss out to those who do. The business world is full of this. Take a good look at the Enron scandal, BCCI, World-Com. The legal-by-the-book, but ethically questionable behaviours at Microsoft. Books get "cooked", honest investors get ripped-off, legitimate businesses ruined. It's unfortunate that concepts such as honour and integrity are viewed as "passe" and "quaint". If you see the "big boys" doing it and getting away with it, then why not? Furry sub-culture, being but a subset of the larger cullture, isn't immune to these same questionable tendencies.

It truly is sad.
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Offline cyber_lupine

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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2004, 04:57:06 am »
Quote
I think you all know what I'm talking about here.


Could you show me an example, i dont go looking around the art here
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Offline Kitsune_H

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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2004, 04:53:06 am »
You know what would be good? If there were these satelites, that, everytime someone stole someone's art, the sattelites would fire down a lightning bolt and fry the theif.
It would be damned cool to see the earth flooded in thunder.

Offline Raust Shieldra

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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2004, 05:41:56 pm »
I have one segeustion givin to me by my creative writing teacher, when you produce anything do it in pen and paper first and make a copy before any one sees it. Mail the original to youreslf for the federal dated post mark and never open it, use the copy to retype onto your hard drive. If any one happens to get thier hands on your work to claim it you have a sealed federally dated envolope with your original in it for physical evidence of the work you produced. It's not flawless but I have seen it save one poet in my class from losing her work to such a thief.




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Offline Firebreath

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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2004, 06:05:50 pm »
And if you are using a digital media, look into PDF format. It's quite secure, and very nice to browse, and not much different from actually reading it on a web page or something.
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Please explain something to me...
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2004, 06:32:29 pm »
People steal others work because they think it's cool, and they're jealous and lazy.

Jealous and lazy..yeesh...not a good combo.

Offline Ukiko

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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2004, 08:36:46 pm »
Quote (Jackalman @ July 11 2004, 4:12 pm)
But I think it's pretty obvious whenever you see someone of professional level skill but the person posting it has grammar like a mountain gorilla getting mad at a keyboard.  

I don't have much to say about the subject, except that people just don't have any scruples when stuff's on the 'net.

And....the quote above made me laugh out loud.   '<img'>

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Offline RedFeather

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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2004, 03:30:29 pm »
Quote (Cesarin @ July 11 2004, 11:53 am)
...also the feelings of someone to get "attention" focused on them

others are just in vengeance for a problem with said artist..

Hehe, Gilderoy Lockhart syndrome...  I guess I understand that, but it sure seems so alien to me to claim something and not be able to back it up.

As for vengeance, making yourself look like an butt sure seems like strange way to get back at someone.  Aw well, there's a reason I didn't major in psych...  '<img'>

Offline Jackalman

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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2004, 04:12:11 pm »
People are just lazy.  It's easier to steal than create.  

But I think it's pretty obvious whenever you see someone of professional level skill but the person posting it has grammar like a mountain gorilla getting mad at a keyboard.  

I attended 3 art colleges (and taught a water colour class at one) and I remember how they weeded out the frauds.  They used to judge admittions by looking at their portfolios, but a lot of rich kids hired professional artists to make their portfolios for them to gain admittion.

This is a really stupid thing to do, because once you're in you're constantly going to graded on a level of excellence that is expected to constantly improve.  You wouldn't last a single term.

So they perform this test where you have to draw a model right in front of an instructor.  The first time I did that it scared the willies out of me.  The instructor interupted me about 5 minutes in and said "That's enough, you can go" and I though "OH MY GAWD I FAILED!"  No, relax, you're in!

There's a lot of really bad art on the internet, especially in the furry world.  The best advice I can give in just words is attend Life Drawing classes.  Life Drawing is the quickest and most effective way of improving your skill as an artist.  Disney animators are expected to attend a few hours of life drawing every week, if they keep missing it then that's grounds for dismissal.

I myself just wander into classes at the local college I attend and ask to sit in whenever I can.  People ask "You've been drawing for 20 years, don't you have this down by now?"  It makes you a better artist.  

A lot of artists draw by looking at drawings similar to what they had in mind (comic books are a most common source since they show human form from so many angles) but there is only so much you can learn from that.  I imagine that's what a LOT of artists do here.  If you really want to get better, as much as a Christian believes in God, I'm telling you life drawing makes you better.  It gives you the confidence you can drawing anything that pops into your head and make it look like what you want.

Offline Kitsune_H

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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2004, 05:07:14 pm »
I'm beggining to work with writing, and I'm also really worried about this. What keeps someone from taking my stuff and claiming it for theirselves?

Offline RedFeather

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« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2004, 05:25:52 pm »
Quote (Jackalman @ July 11 2004, 4:12 pm)
They used to judge admittions by looking at their portfolios, but a lot of rich kids hired professional artists to make their portfolios for them to gain admittion.

I can't even imagine what I would do if I found out something like this was occuring in my school.  I'll be starting my Master's degree in the fall in a very competitive program at Texas A&M, where only 17 people are accepted per year.  The main part of the application process is an art portfolio.  It's such a competitive program, that if any student were found to have lied on their application, I can see them not only dismissed, but thoroughly crushed by both classmates and admin.

I totally agree about the life drawing classes.  The only thing I rather regret about my class was the fact that we never did any sittings longer than 15 minutes, and one over 5 minutes were rare.  Unfortunately, my University only had one figure drawing class (it's not an art school) so I didn't get much choice in continuing onto higher levels of figure drawing.  It helps to have mature friends who think nothing of posing for me (and me for them) if we need it.

And Kitsune_H, there's not a whole lot you can do to prevent someone from taking your writing besides not posting it on the internet.  There's always publication and then slapping them with a lawsuit if they do steal it.  Other than that... Keep it on your harddrive and enjoy it youself... ?  I used to write a TON back in high school and for each piece I actually put up on my old website, I have half a dozen more vignettes on my harddrive.  To this day, I still really enjoy going back and reading all this crap I produced back in day.  Everynow and then I come across something that really piques my interest, and inspires me to write again, but eh, I don't so much... hehe...

Anyway, whatever you end up doing, good luck with that.  '<img'>

Offline Cesarin

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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2004, 12:20:12 am »
im going to get inside the College of Guadalajara ( Universidad de Guadalajara.. or UDG ) in arts once I get inside..
I just hope I can learn a lot in these stuff :>
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Offline Peaches

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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2004, 12:31:59 am »
Well, if you write poetry, poetry.com gives you a copyright in your name. It's a free service and you can be published and all that good blah.
Anything else, I would recommend copyright. Yes, it does take some work and effort, but as much time that is spent on artwork, it should be worth that protection. That, above all things, will stand up in court. It may be saved, packed away, dated, duplicated, framed, whatever...all someone has to say is that they made it first and make up a date prior. It does cost money, yes, but in the long run, it's worth the money not to have to plead your case for thousands just to lose.  ':shock:'
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Offline Cesarin

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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2004, 11:53:34 am »
Quote (RedFeather @ July 11 2004, 10:41 am)
I've noticed a recent rash of claiming other's work as their own in Furtopia, whether it be art or writing.  I think you all know what I'm talking about here.

I cannot say whether the last was actually written by the poster or not as I have no proof either way, but if not, please explain to me why these people are doing this?  It's called plaigerism people and it's one of the worst crimes you can commit.  Once you're caught, it goes on your record and sticks with your the rest of your life.  You lose your credibility.  People don't trust you.  Companies don't hire you and no one beleives your research.  You can't get anything published and your career goes down the drain.  I've seen it happen.  It's not pretty.

So please explain to me why people voluntarily do these things?  Especially on something so little as claiming to have written or drawn something they found online?  Something so small can totally ruin your credibility.

Yes, the internet is massive, but not so massive as you think.  Especially for the "popular" pages, or funny stuff.  I guaran-damn-tee you someone out there has seen it and passed it on.  Six degrees of seperation, or something like that.  

So that's my beef.  I seriously just don't get it...

well, art thiefs are more common in the internet than ever
the feeling of "popular" stuff that makes people excited of its very good quality, also the feelings of someone to get "attention" focused on them  with an inability on skills to do similar stuff makes art thiefs to try to get attention by stealing other's art and posting while claiming its their own, its motly psicological thing
others are way diferent, some of them do it because they think its "funny" and to annoy the said artist..
others are just in vengeance for a problem with said artist..
de´pends on the people
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Offline RedFeather

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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2004, 11:41:28 am »
I've noticed a recent rash of claiming other's work as their own in Furtopia, whether it be art or writing.  I think you all know what I'm talking about here.

I cannot say whether the last was actually written by the poster or not as I have no proof either way, but if not, please explain to me why these people are doing this?  It's called plaigerism people and it's one of the worst crimes you can commit.  Once you're caught, it goes on your record and sticks with your the rest of your life.  You lose your credibility.  People don't trust you.  Companies don't hire you and no one beleives your research.  You can't get anything published and your career goes down the drain.  I've seen it happen.  It's not pretty.

So please explain to me why people voluntarily do these things?  Especially on something so little as claiming to have written or drawn something they found online?  Something so small can totally ruin your credibility.

Yes, the internet is massive, but not so massive as you think.  Especially for the "popular" pages, or funny stuff.  I guaran-damn-tee you someone out there has seen it and passed it on.  Six degrees of seperation, or something like that.  

So that's my beef.  I seriously just don't get it...