Author Topic: Are corporations too powerful and influential?  (Read 5775 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« on: June 17, 2010, 02:30:14 pm »
Back in my "Afghanistan...." thread and also "World economies...." thread, J. March Ohare made some comments and posts about how big corporations are too influential in America and the world, and seem to be controlling various aspects of gov't., etc.

So I have to ask: Are big corporations butting in where they shouldn't be?
Are they too powerful?
Are our world leaders being "bought out" and/or influenced too much by corporate donations, etc.?
How can our gov'ts and/or the public keep big companies "in check"?
Are gov'ts soon to "go the way of the dinosaur", and all we have left is an empty White House in Washington, and corporations will start controlling everything in society?
Will we soon find ourselves in a corporate ruled world similar to the Robocop movie and/or the ALIEN movie universe with the megacompany known as Weyland/Yutani?

Offline J. March OHare

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2010, 03:14:54 pm »
Kobuk: "I have to ask: Are big corporations butting in where they shouldn't be?"

Well, you already know what I think. Yes. To cite one well-known example, even a cursory examination of the drug war (to which tobacco is now being added) will tell you everything you need to know. Follow the money.

Kobuk: "Are they too powerful?"

Yes. They are defined as legal "persons," with more rights than actual individuals have and fewer responsibilities. And, their money has been defined as "speech."

Kobuk: "Are our world leaders being 'bought out' and/or influenced too much by corporate donations, etc.?"

Yes. Once again, follow the money.

Kobuk: "How can our gov'ts and/or the public keep big companies 'in check'?"

We need serious campaign finance reform. I'm generally a small-"l" libertarian, but in this case I'm not. I have been physically present when a Senator essentially extorted a $3000 campaign donation from the owner of the company for which I worked: pony up or lose the Republican Party's business. The owner had to transfer the money from his business account to his personal account for the transaction to be "legal." He wasn't happy about it. He probably said too much.

All elections should be publicly funded, and every candidate should get the same amount. The internet, cable TV and government printing offices are more than adequate to do the job. With the right use of existing resources it could be done very cheaply.

We need strong anti-trust law. Our anti-trust law has become a joke.

No more corporations-as-persons and money-as-speech. Kick the paid lobbyists out.

I have more suggestions, but those will do for starters. Government is supposed to work for the people, not for multinational conglomerates.

Kobuk: "Are gov'ts soon to 'go the way of the dinosaur', and all we have left is an empty White House in Washington, and corporations will start controlling everything in society?"

No, not anytime soon, anyway. Why would those who have all the economic and political power want to get rid of institutions that have the majority's confidence? (Many people are saying they've lost that, but they still really have it.) Why would they eliminate the buffer between them and the people? The status quo already works in the Global Elite's favor. The last thing they want to do is change it.

Kobuk: "Will we soon find ourselves in a corporate ruled world similar to the Robocop movie and/or the ALIEN movie universe with the megacompany known as Weyland/Yutani?"

The original Rollerball, too. Those were science fiction. This is reality. The powers-that-be won't do that for reasons I've already stated. Government prostitutes make excellent buffers, better than any PR firm on Earth. Why would the Elites mess with the status quo?

Those people hate changes in the status quo. It put them where they are, and it keeps them there.

Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 04:42:49 am »
So I have to ask: Are big corporations butting in where they shouldn't be?
Yes, but only because corrupt, or easily corruptable government agencies and large donations to them allow them to butt in.

Quote
Are they too powerful?
In some ways, yes for the above stated reasons. At the same time, I've been helped out a few times by "Big Corporate" when it came to drastic changes in my living situation, where a small business wouldn't have that flexability. So I guess it depends on your perspective and if you believe they are the ones corrupt or just taking advantage of a corrupt government system.

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Are our world leaders being "bought out" and/or influenced too much by corporate donations, etc.?
I'm leaning towards yes on this, but I can't say 100% on that view. Goverment doesn't know everything, so I do believe there is a time and place that big companies are the only ones with the needed expertese to provide insight into an issue. The down side to that is the government needs to make sure they get all sides to an issue and not just that of the company they favor.

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How can our gov'ts and/or the public keep big companies "in check"?
In addition to what J. March OHare said, don't forget we can also vote with our money. If you don't like what a company is doing (for this or any other reason for that matter), don't shop there and send them a letter explaining why. Too many people blindly go in and buy what they want at the cheapest price, and don't care where it came from or what the company stands for. Sadly, I don't see that changing on any drastic level.

Quote
Are gov'ts soon to "go the way of the dinosaur", and all we have left is an empty White House in Washington, and corporations will start controlling everything in society?...
Will we soon find ourselves in a corporate ruled world similar to the Robocop movie and/or the ALIEN movie universe with the megacompany known as Weyland/Yutani?
I highly doubt that by any stretch of the imagination. The closest I can see to something like that happening would be if a major industry said "Do as we say, or we'll cut off selling our product to you". Even then, I don't think it'd work too well because there's so much competition and diversity in the world. If things like that really worked, then all those UN embargos and such would have stopped places like Iran from trying to get a nuke. Instead, they have their own alliances with other countries friendly to them to help them out.
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Offline CiceroKit

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2010, 08:32:44 am »
Certain corporations are too powerful, that is for certain. I don't think this is that new of an occurrence though. The influence exerted by large corporations over non-corporations goes beyond lobbying politicians who are eager to accept sizable campaign donations. Take a look at the heavy product placement in films and then ask why movies are not made about certain subjects.

Recently, PepsiCo launched a PR campaign to ensure that they would maintain their product sales in schools. "We have removed beverages containing sugar from school vending machines." Looks good to many people on the surface, however diet soda is hardly better than regular. Not only have artificial sweeteners lead to certain specific ailments, but the diet beverages in question still contain heavy amounts of sodium. Of course this "voluntary" action by PepsiCo makes people see the company as more responsible. But what is their real angle? Yum Brands, another branch of PepsiCo, the name behind fast food restaurants such as Taco Bell, KFC and Pizza Hut, is one of the largest contractors with school districts across the country for the hot lunch program. This is one of the key reasons we have such an obesity epidemic in this country. So how did PepsiCo come across this path to conspicuous consumption of their junk food in our nations schools? Well, for that, follow the string of terrible legislation, then follow who voted for said legislation and see where their campaign dollars came from. That is the simple formula. You can use it with banks, oil, telecom, and big pharma.

I chose to use our school lunch system as an example, because not only is it paid for by tax dollars once, but twice. School lunch is heavily subsidized, and that is the way it needs to be if there is a program at all. Some would say that if we spent more on the program, schools could offer healthier fare. While I believe that is true, I think that even with the money spent now, we could still achieve that end. One needs to ask, how did we get to the point where preparation of school lunches moved from outside the school's kitchen, to the factories making food for Yum Brands. Well, part of that is because school districts are afraid of law suits that could be brought about from improperly cooked foods. With budgets tight, the priority is not to hire the most qualified kitchen  staff. Much easier to go off location and shift the responsibility to a corporation that is largely untouchable. In fact, many districts find that it would be impossible to go back to the old way of doing things where this program is concerned because of the problems that have been created by legislation and budgetary decisions spanning the last 20-30 years.

Why I talk about this problem is because children really have no choice in this matter. As adults, we should proceed with caution in life. We should know better. If my doctor suddenly sounds a bit more like a drug dealer, I am going to refuse to accept being pushed on prescriptions that just came on the market. If someone offers me an interest-only home loan or a reverse mortgage, I am going to be suspicious, since neither statement makes much sense. Basically, if it sounds too good to be true, it is. However, this sort of skepticism comes from years of disillusionment.

Now, for the fun part. Is there a solution to keep this sort of thing in check? Yes. First off, this requires a strong news media, one that serves as whistle blower, and not agenda setter. Along with that, we need better media literacy. In the information age, this is a huge challenge, since there is so much dubious information out there passing as news. Reliable sources are not the players with the most money. You will never see a story about the privatization of water on NBC when one of their parent companies is Vivendi. Much better to turn to viewer/listener sponsored independent news sources such as Democracy Now, or National Public Radio. The next facet is to take the information and become more involved. Corporations have lobbyists, but the general citizenry can lobby too. There has been recent legislation limiting the amount lobbyists can spend on freebies. No $100 + lunch tabs anymore. This was a way to try to level the playing field. Likewise, there is a limit on how much money a corporation can donate to a campaign. Of course, this law is being broken far too often. That is where citizen watchdog groups come in. Don't just let this matter get settled in a court of law after the campaign is over with. Refuse to vote for candidates that break campaign finance law. When you know someone has, tell everyone you know. If the media hasn't picked up the story, make sure they do. Write letters to the editor, letting people know this is unacceptable.

The problem with bought and paid for politicians has become so prevalent due to the fact that most voters care little about the issue. It does not rank as a significantly important issue in polling, even though it should. The only way to keep corporations in check is through an engaged and active citizenry. I know that sounds a bit cliche at this point, because it is the solution to so many of our problems. That should tell you something ;)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 08:36:43 am by CiceroKit »
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Offline Yip

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 11:47:55 pm »
Are corporations too powerful?

In a way, no. They are exactly as powerful as they should be given the way the system works. If you think corporations are too powerful, what you are really saying is that the system is flawed. (which I would agree with by the way).  One simple question: what separates a successful company from an unsuccessful company?  The answer: successful companies make more money. That's it.

It's easy to paint them as the bad guy. But really they are not. It's merely the product of a system based on money. Survival of the fittest, with "fittest" being those that make the most money. No matter how the system works, there are going to be those at the top exploiting the system in order to maintain their position at the top. In order to truly fix the issue we'd need to redefine what it means to be "fittest" such that exploiting it to stay on top helps society as a whole instead of just the individual. I'm not exactly sure how.

Offline Alsek

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2010, 04:32:39 pm »
There's a fine line on this one...  On one hand,  i agree that people are too quick to
paint them as the bad guy


But at the same time,  i don't beleive in corporate personhood.  In those situations where an organisation is absolutly in the wrong (and if you've ever payed attention to Texas speed limmits you'll know they're sticking their noses where they don't belong ocasionaly),  the people in the wrong need to be held personaly responsible for their actions,  not just that the company looses money while some yahoo's personal belongings are left untouched.  Y'know?  Hold people responsible for their actions.

Offline J. March OHare

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2010, 07:10:30 pm »
Alsek: "...i don't beleive in corporate personhood."

Neither do I. Corporations are not persons, and money is not speech.

Offline J. March OHare

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 07:55:35 pm »
I'm dragging this thread back to the top because it seems the most reasonable place to post what I'm about to post. Starting a new thread would be redundant. This topic covers it.

I keep encountering allegations of a conspiracy to hide that the BP spill is still leaking into the Gulf. It doesn't help that less than a month ago, industry insider and whistleblower Matthew Simmons asserted exactly that, and now he's dead, killed by a heart attack in his hot tub. From the Wikipedia article at that link:

Quote
...during a July 15, 2010 interview with KPFK – Pacifica Los Angeles, Simmons asserted that the relief wells and the capping process on the Macondo wellhead are publicity stunts and that the real vent is up to ten miles away. He said that an enormous pool of crude is accumulating below the sea floor, releasing poisonous gases and waiting to be whipped up by a hurricane.

The existence of a "heart attack drug" has long been alleged. It's rumored to be invisible to toxicologists and administered in the form of a tiny frozen dart. The dart penetrates the skin, leaving a mark no more conspicuous than what you'd get from a tetanus shot, and immediately melts: death rapidly follows. I do not find that outrageous. Given that assassination has been carried out with a tiny metal pellet, coated with ricin and injected by a trick umbrella, I don't put anything past the criminals in power. That ricin trick left the pellet behind (which is why we know the trick existed: the British Ministry of Defence {sic} found one in the leg of assassinated Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov), but I have no problem believing that completely undetectable methods have been invented now. The ricin pellet is over thirty years old, and was apparently developed by the KGB. I think the wealthiest corporations in the world can afford to do better -- not to mention the CIA.

Other boards that I visit are buzzing over this story. A third of my friends on Facebook are talking about it. And yet, I can find not one peep regarding it in the Mainstream Media. Honestly, I didn't look very hard, but as far as I can tell they're completely ignoring it, hoping it will just go away.

That's suspicious in itself.

I find myself wondering, if the BP spill is indeed still gushing, how long could they lie about it? Recent events right here in this forum have reminded me that the entire Gulf could be coated with a film of oil, people could be screaming, "LOOK! IT'S STILL GETTING WORSE!" and the so-called experts in the MSM could get away with saying, "No it isn't. That's just because..." (insert technobabble here). Most people who do not live near the Gulf would probably believe it. They might even accuse the whistleblowers of being anti-American and anti-business: Communists and liberals and terrorists... oh my! It's been done before, even in conjunction with this incident and in spite of the fact that BP is not an American corporation.

It is, however, too big to fail. It's a heck of a note when I find myself thinking that things like this are believable... but I do. I don't put it beneath our Global Corporate Masters for one second. I don't put anything beneath them.

Even something as outrageous as "The world is run by Reptiles from Outer Space!" can get legs. Sure it's silly, but it's a Myth for the Current Era. Why not believe our Alphas are inhuman? Anyone who pays even cursory attention to reality knows that they act like they are.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 08:20:00 pm »
I like a good conspiracy story just as much as the next person. But things like this make for "entertaining bed time stories" instead. Is it possible oil is still leaking and BP is covering up more stuff and such? I don't know. I'm not an engineer nor a FBI investigator. As much as I want to believe, I'm a person who needs FACTS. I can't believe something unless there is proof.

Was the moon landing faked? Gimmie proof.
Do we have alien bodies and crashed UFO's? Gimmie proof.
Is Elvis still alive? Gimmie proof.
........etc., etc., etc.

Offline Alsek

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 08:29:05 pm »

Was the moon landing faked? Gimmie proof.
Do we have alien bodies and crashed UFO's? Gimmie proof.
Is Elvis still alive? Gimmie proof.
........etc., etc., etc.


These things are all examples of the outlandish and hard to believe... Things we have no proof of ever happening.

Corruption and bribing has been happening for thousands of years at the least.  I wouldn't be so fast to rule it out as a possibility.

Though,  i have to agree on some level,  that if a plot involves at least...  oh say...  1 person.  It's likely something will be leaked sooner or later.  In order to be absolutely sure no information gets out...     ~You need half that number of people.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 08:31:02 pm by Alsek »

Offline J. March OHare

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2010, 08:53:17 pm »
Kobuk: "As much as I want to believe, I'm a person who needs FACTS."

Take my word for it: this is one I don't want to believe. I've even considered de-friending one of my Facebook friends, not because I don't like her (I do), but because she's bumming me out with this story.

As for facts, well... Bhopal was a fact. Between 3,787 and 15,000 people died. (How's that for a range? Just depends on whom you want to believe, doesn't it?) Seven scapegoats were found and given 2-year sentences, but none have actually served time. Those are facts. The history of corporate giants is loaded with facts like that.

If someone has a proven history of lying and covering up, you don't trust that person, do you? We've all seen how global multinationals behave. If you had a known sex offender living next door and your child was assaulted, would you consider the sex offender innocent until proven guilty?

At the very least I'd consider him a prime suspect. Regarding the mightiest corporations, what pings my radar is that they're so often studiously overlooked by their cronies at the top of the heap. In some cases, like the peddling of worthless paper (fraud) by investment bankers that has shaken the global economy to its foundations, they're even rewarded with taxpayer-funded bailouts and lavish bonuses.

The system reeks. I'm a skeptic, but to miss seeing those patterns one would have to be blind.



Regarding your examples, Kobuk -- faked moon landings, etc. -- I often think that if such did not exist disinformation agents would have to make them up. They help discredit all allegations of conspiracy through false analogies like the one you just used. As Alsek said, conspiracy and corruption in the halls of power are hardly outlandish. There's a world of difference between an alien Gray and a cabal of lying executives. We have no undeniable proof that the former exists, but we know darn well that the latter is a nickel a gross.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2010, 09:16:47 pm »
@JMOH: Ya know, talk of big corporations and such keeps reminding me of this vid and the lyrics it has. You actually might get a kick out of it.  :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog
http://www.museresistance.com/mlyrics/uprising.html

Offline J. March OHare

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2010, 09:30:32 pm »
Kobuk: "You actually might get a kick out of it."

I did, although the irony of "Copyright Warner Music 2009" at the end did not escape me. :D



Added in Edit: Actually, however, this is more my style. Much less well-behaved. No giant teddy bears in this one.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 09:42:04 pm by J. March OHare »

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 09:59:34 am »
Well they do have a big hold on the average Joe, and their macroeconomy is killing the small business. Also, when a big emporium settles in (McDonalds, Starbucks, Wallmart) they will start to control trends and cultural issues.
Think of facebook. How many of you don't have one? *raises hand* I bet the vast majority of people do. And it's become a free way for publicity! Think a bit on it, and notice how easy it's to pull the strings of people with a corporation. Take a notepad one day and count how many corporate things you've got. Count the soaps you got at wallmart, the continental breakfast you get at starbucks, the quick twitter message, the everyday google search, and the Ikea bed when you go to sleep.
Corporations have filtered in every aspect of our lives, and it's because we let them.
Yes, I think they're too powerful because we gave them that power.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 02:06:35 pm »
Take a notepad one day and count how many corporate things you've got. Count the soaps you got at wallmart, the continental breakfast you get at starbucks, the quick twitter message, the everyday google search, and the Ikea bed when you go to sleep.
Corporations have filtered in every aspect of our lives, and it's because we let them.
Wait... I don't see how that is necessarily a bad thing. Take google search for example. We now have a wealth of information at are fingertips thanks to this. I don't see how you could say it like it's a bad thing. Just because a company does well does not mean it's too powerful or that it's evil. Judge them individually by their specific actions, not by some over-generalization.

In fact, even judging a corporation as a single unit can be a mistake. For example, I've heard a lot of complaints about some of the behavior of Microsoft, and some of those may be well placed. However, this doesn't mean it's composed entirely of corporate greed. I've worked there, so I know. The impression I got was of people working at achieving goals, not for the profit, but for being able to do cool things. Things like Kinect or MS Surface. Technologies that may allow us to do things in the future that now are mainly confined to science-fiction.  I've also done testing on Google products, and they seem to exhibit the same kind of "do the impossible" kind of innovation.

Like I said before, the problem is not the corporations themselves, but the fact our system based on money often rewards greedy behavior.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 07:32:57 pm »
There's one major thing that big business corporations can't control and will never be able to fix or improve: Customer Service.  :P

Offline A_Foxice_Building

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 07:07:05 am »
Back in my "Afghanistan...." thread and also "World economies...." thread, J. March Ohare made some comments and posts about how big corporations are too influential in America and the world, and seem to be controlling various aspects of gov't., etc.

So I have to ask: Are big corporations butting in where they shouldn't be?
Are they too powerful?
Are our world leaders being "bought out" and/or influenced too much by corporate donations, etc.?
How can our gov'ts and/or the public keep big companies "in check"?
Are gov'ts soon to "go the way of the dinosaur", and all we have left is an empty White House in Washington, and corporations will start controlling everything in society?
Will we soon find ourselves in a corporate ruled world similar to the Robocop movie and/or the ALIEN movie universe with the megacompany known as Weyland/Yutani?

Answer 1: Not really, everything they're doing is legal. Although there may be some ethical issues with the general public, it's all above the belt. Except for Mcdonalds. Make as many jokes at the expense of mcdonalds as you can. *mutters under breath* (bunch of penny scraping watering down cheapo's)
2. I haven't really heard much in the way of corporate donations affecting too much, although I never really looked into it. It all seems above the belt again.
3. There's no real need to keep them in check, apart from egos. They're bigger than a 250g balsa wood bridge buster. (Inside joke, but I can't think of much else)  :D
4. Almost definitely not, it's not like the corporations are in for controlling the world, they're just in it for profit. And if they do something on such a scale, the public would almost certainly give it a good kick back.
5. Hopefully not, although I've found that Colonel Sanders has been giving a lot of people some overdone smug grins. If they do, here's 5 bucks they won't be getting. Wait, that's a hundred! SHI-  x_x
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Offline Avan

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 09:49:11 am »
Just because something is legal does not mean it necessarily needs to be or should be done.

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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 07:45:50 pm »
Wait... I don't see how that is necessarily a bad thing. Take google search for example. We now have a wealth of information at are fingertips thanks to this. I don't see how you could say it like it's a bad thing. Just because a company does well does not mean it's too powerful or that it's evil. Judge them individually by their specific actions, not by some over-generalization.

Like I said before, the problem is not the corporations themselves, but the fact our system based on money often rewards greedy behavior.

Well it's not a bad thing per-se, but think of the content regulators of google, or their ad-watchers that know what you're reading and where you are at. It's a big privacy invasion that we've given them open pathways to. I've always for the non-generalization and the individual reflection instead of the broad one, you know? X3
I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence, it's a system's faulty glitch   :D
We need better coders on the humane code  :P
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Offline Yip

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2010, 03:12:04 pm »
Well it's not a bad thing per-se, but think of the content regulators of google, or their ad-watchers that know what you're reading and where you are at. It's a big privacy invasion that we've given them open pathways to.
Ok, yeah, I see how that's a potential issue. It's like street view on google maps; on the one hand it's awesome and extremely useful, on the other... it's kind of scary when anyone can look up exactly where your house is and even see the cars parked in front. Granted it's a still image and not like it's updated in real time, but it still seems like something with a lot of potential for misuse.

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I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence, it's a system's faulty glitch   :D
We need better coders on the humane code  :P
And yet I'm not really sure of a better system. I mean, ideally everyone should help out for the sake of helping out, but you just know that a lot of people simply won't. And therefore there needs to be some other kind of motivation.

Offline Alsek

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2010, 08:49:54 pm »
There's one major thing that big business corporations can't control and will never be able to fix or improve: Customer Service.  :P


     It would be easy if they'd have people in call centers who have actually used their products instead of just hiring people in other countries to read from a script...    o.o

But these things cost money and would affect their profit.

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2010, 11:10:43 pm »
on the other... it's kind of scary when anyone can look up exactly where your house is and even see the cars parked in front.
Have you seen failblog? They have quite an array of... interesting images rescued from the google maps' intimacy invasion.

You speak of motivation, I speak of a fundamental flaw.
I think we might be on the same page... though.
I think the basic thing we're doing wrong is something to do with out motivations, after all. Humanity isn't widely know for it's generosity, after all...
I ate a bag of grapes and now I own the world.

Offline Yip

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2010, 06:53:12 pm »
You speak of motivation, I speak of a fundamental flaw.
I think we might be on the same page... though.
I think the basic thing we're doing wrong is something to do with out motivations, after all. Humanity isn't widely know for it's generosity, after all...
When I mentioned motivation, what I mean is that for a society to work, we need to have something that motivates us to work together.  Trade does that. And trade is what lead to the money system, which really is just a streamlined system for trade. The very nature of it is to get people to work together by creating mutually beneficial situations. If Person A works with Person B, they both gain something. The problem, and where I think the flaw lies with this system, is that while these situations may be mutually beneficial for A and B, it can just as easily be harmful as beneficial to everyone else.

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2010, 04:23:05 pm »
When I mentioned motivation, what I mean is that for a society to work, we need to have something that motivates us to work together.  Trade does that. And trade is what lead to the money system, which really is just a streamlined system for trade. The very nature of it is to get people to work together by creating mutually beneficial situations. If Person A works with Person B, they both gain something. The problem, and where I think the flaw lies with this system, is that while these situations may be mutually beneficial for A and B, it can just as easily be harmful as beneficial to everyone else.
Yes, but by that same logic, everyone would be doing "good deeds" that benefit the community such as getting rid of world hunger, or poverty, and the such. People don't want what's more beneficial to everyone, and not even to themselves, they ask something that will be the most immediate self-gain. Law of minimal effort: Humans will try to gain as much as they can as immediately as possible by doing the least possible effort.
Edit: I will note that again, this does not state it applies to everyone, but it tends to be a behavioral basis.
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Offline Yip

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Re: Are corporations too powerful and influential?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2010, 07:23:29 pm »
Yes, but by that same logic, everyone would be doing "good deeds" that benefit the community such as getting rid of world hunger, or poverty, and the such. People don't want what's more beneficial to everyone, and not even to themselves, they ask something that will be the most immediate self-gain. Law of minimal effort: Humans will try to gain as much as they can as immediately as possible by doing the least possible effort.
By what same logic? I don't follow what you are saying.