Question as to future of furry community...

[River Ceed]

Hello all,

 Â  After seeing quite a few posts in the forums about questioning whether to tell parents or friends about being a furry, complaining and dissatisfaction with media representation, and concerns over what kind of life a furry will be able to lead in the future, I thought perhaps I would bring up my next conversation regarding the furry community and it's future.

 Â  After all the explaining of secrecy and fear over what others will think if they know you are a furry (assuming you are one of those who has chosen to keep quiet) and after seeing the poor representation of the furry community in the news and hollywood, have any of you thought about ways to improve public outlook on the furry community?

 Â  You may remember a while back, I was stating that the only way things will improve, as far as public opinion of furries, is if furries come forward and show that there is another side to the fandom then merely sex crazed deviants and other creature wannabe's/extremists.  It's true.  The public will only go off of what they visibly see from the fandom.  Closed conventions with little to no media access, police reports from the activities of the extreme deviants in the community, and movies or TV shows going off of stereotypes set by those two situations aren't going to make things look sunny for the furry community.  So what ideas can you all come up with to improve the public view?

 Â  Think how wonderful it would be if people did not have to be afraid to mention their furriness.  Think about how great it would be if a furry did not have to wonder what kind of future they would have, being viewed as a nutcase.  For those of you who grow weary of feeling like you aren't accepted in society and cannot really be yourself, think of how great it would feel if that boulder of emotion was lifted off your shoulder.  Furry artists, think how your business would take off and sell like hotcakes if the furry community was more in the open and less controversial due to such hidden existance.  There are definate benefits to being accepted more readily in society.  And besides, humans tend to fear things which are shrouded in mystery or hidden from public view... to get rid of the fear and misconceptions, truth must be shown and a willing openness must be presented.

 Â  Since my past suggestions of openly speaking to reporters or writing newspaper articles on the topic were met with what seemed like fear to stick ones neck out due to fear of what would happen, I am asking you all what things would you feel comfortable doing to make the furry community seem a bit more friendly, less deviant, and more 'public friendly'?

 Â   I will start the ball rolling with another suggestion...

Attention fursuiters :  Volunteer at a library to read children's books to local little kids for an hour or two a week.  Wear your fur suit, if you can talk through it.  Kids will get a kick out of it, the library is a very public and generally safe place, and when the parents ask you about the fursuit, it will allow you to introduce them to the idea of furries who like to contribute to the community and promote taking care of nature/ the environment.


Ok.... anyone interested in improving the public opinion about furries and making things a bit easier for up and coming furries in the fandom who will be otherwise facing many of the same nervewracking issues you have faced on your own journey.... GO!  I would love to see your ideas and perhaps others will adopt them as projects of their own.

~River

[Drake Blackpaw]

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Attention fursuiters :  Volunteer at a library to read children's books to local little kids for an hour or two a week.  Wear your fur suit, if you can talk through it.  Kids will get a kick out of it, the library is a very public and generally safe place, and when the parents ask you about the fursuit, it will allow you to introduce them to the idea of furries who like to contribute to the community and promote taking care of nature/ the environment.

There are several furs in the Northern VA area that do volunteer work in their fursuits.  They were also invited by the national park service to wear there fursuits and interact with visitors to celebrate the grand reopening of the restored ferris wheel.

As for ideas to improve the image of the fandom, there are some excellent furry artists that have work that rivals that of artists doing more conventional art.  A public show featuring the work of some of these artists would get that art out into the mainstream.  The few people who have seen the framed print I have by Dark Natasha in my house are amazed at the detail and skill she has.

Furry characters are becoming more and more prevalent in video games, while gamers seem to be the most vocal critics of furry, this direction in video games suggest that it is also an area for furry to expand and get more visible in.

One other thing to note on the furry and public perception.  There are many furs who just don't care about how the public perceives us and others who feel that presenting society with a message of sexual openness is a very good thing.  Furtopia tends to be on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion on the how furry is viewed outside and what our message should be.  I've run into one or two furries online who haven't joined furtopia because they view it as being to reactionary and conservative in the views of its members.

So a side issue to this discussion would be what image does the furry fandom wish to present to the outside world?  That I believe would be a very heated debate and one not likely to get resolved anytime soon.

[beyond the darkness]

Being in Britain (Scotland in perticullar) is a pain. For what ever reson we are pretty closed minded. The West of Scotland in perticular is extremely bigotted, there is still a massive Catholic Protistant divide, Neds in general are a real pain and alot of people are pretty homophobic. I'm pretty sure few would accecpt the Brittish/Scottish Furry communitty with open arms.

[Drake Blackpaw]

But the UK seems to have a good number of furs.  I have three furs on my IM buddy list.  

Furry and homosexuality are not synonymous.  Most of the UK furs I've met are very heterosexual.

While the Neds will never accept anything that's remotely different than them, you may find at least in England a higher tolerance and also greater number of furs than you suspect.

[Varg the wanderer]

I like the library idea.  That would leave a good impression of furry on people.
Also, what the heck is a ned?

[beyond the darkness]

I know there are a good number of us and that is a really good thing and I'm not saying that furry and homosexualality go together it is just that most people will see this as a perverted activity and all furs should be put in rooms with padded walls and given jackets where the sleeves tie round the back. Only problem is about the England thing is I come from the West of Scotland and there I will remain for the time being!
Oh yeah a Ned is a person who generally wears a tracksuit, drinks shed loads of alcahol and leave a trail of vandilism, violence and general mayhem in thier wake!

[Bear Paw]

The thing you got to think  about is how you would represent the comunity your part of .I must admit it would be nice to start upa regular furry Worcester group meet and get peope in the area intrsted but as with things like this you tend to make yourself a big target and althoughj Most don't care what a few small minded people think the new paople and those who would just want to remain quiet might be driven off by it. The net is a deffinate god send but a good old furry meet F2F id far better. Shame And I don't know of any furs in the imediate area ahh well at least im here.

[weiwardwulf]

Sorry for unearthing an old thread.  I have the flu (oh yeah, I'm having fun), which gives me plenty of reading time.  I am surprised to see so few replies here, I thought this might make for a bigger topic.

My 2 cents: Incremental improvements to the fandom's image can surely be made, but the fandom will still remain a fandom.  All fandoms and subcultures take heat for something.  To admit being a Trekie conjures visions of people taking their wedding vows in Klingon.  The fantasy/RPG people are sometimes branded as being without a real social life.  Vamps get hit with the acusation of being Satanic narcomaniacs.  Furry probably corners the market on the sexual deviancy charge.

Most disturbing to me is how the same accusations we try to refute resound within the fandom itself.  Furry is the only subculture I've been a party to, but I have seen into other subcultures thru a broad range of friends.  I do believe furry is the most self-doubting, self-suspicious fandom of all.  You see it on the boards, in party invitations, conversations, everywhere!  We quickly [perhaps by default] suspect fellow furs of being nut cases, wierdos, crazies, and deviants, to use but a few terms recently posted to this board.

Yes, this is furry:  where the party invitations remind you to bathe before attending.  And I ask, where else can someone be suspected of "meowing or barking uncontrollably"?

If we want to improve furry's image, we must start from within.

[weiwardwulf]

Quote (Drake Blackpaw @ Nov. 07 2003, 1:33 pm)

Furtopia tends to be on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion on the how furry is viewed outside and what our message should be.  I've run into one or two furries online who haven't joined furtopia because they view it as being to reactionary and conservative in the views of its members.

Hello Mr. Blackpaw.  What you say reminds me of a group that called themselves Burned Furs.  Whatever happened to them?  I've been in the fandom since 1993 and saw a number of trends come and go.

[weiwardwulf]

Quote (beyond the darkness @ Nov. 07 2003, 1:47 pm)

Being in Britain (Scotland in perticullar) is a pain. For what ever reson we are pretty closed minded.

Hello Beyond the Darkness!  I've friends in London, whom I've had the pleasure of visiting.  One thing that surprised me about British culture is the strong wave of animal rights activism.  I sorta thought it would lend them a more furry-friendly disposition.

[Kada-Ru]

The reason there aren't many posts here is because this same subject has been gone over and over in other threads. It just died out I suppose.

[Sabu]

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Attention fursuiters :  Volunteer at a library to read children's books to local little kids for an hour or two a week

*bounce bounce* Even though most fursuiters don't talk, and if they did it could be too muffled to read to children without being really loud?

[Edit] Which isn't to say I don't love the idea

[Kobuk]

How about this for an idea. Usually some cities or small towns will have arts and crafts fairs. Anyfur who draws and/or sells art, or makes any sort of furry crafts could set up a tent or booth at one of these fairs and get their stuff noticed and try to spread more positive aspects of the furry fandom also. The same thing could also be done at carnivals. Carnivals aren't just rides and games. There's also booths selling art, services, products, etc.

Just my .02 cents of rambling. Hope it helps.

[Lobar]

Quote (Drake Blackpaw @ Nov. 07 2003, 12:33 pm)

Furtopia tends to be on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion on the how furry is viewed outside and what our message should be.  I've run into one or two furries online who haven't joined furtopia because they view it as being to reactionary and conservative in the views of its members.

We're reactionary?  When did this happen?

And Sabu: A fursuit head doesn't need to be a helmet.  The plans for my fursuit (or at least the plans in my head that may never come to be ) have a hood with cheeks and a muzzle that would leave my eyes and mouth exposed.

[Drake Blackpaw]

Quote (Lobar Sciuridae @ Dec. 15 2003, 12:40 pm)

Quote (Drake Blackpaw @ Nov. 07 2003, 12:33 pm) Furtopia tends to be on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion on the how furry is viewed outside and what our message should be.  I've run into one or two furries online who haven't joined furtopia because they view it as being to reactionary and conservative in the views of its members. We're reactionary?  When did this happen?

Our reaction to the CSI episode amused some furs on other boards.  We also have a press/world is against us attitude so we must rally the wagons insulate our fandom the outside world.

I have a couple furry friends I chat with daily who I met through some of the more sexually oriented areas of the fandom.  I have pointed them to furtopia as a place they may want to look at and they were turned off by a sense that the forum has a bias against the more adult parts of the fandom.

We haven't had much discussion lately that brings out the feelings of forum members on adult/sexual content in the fandom, but the discussions we've had in the past have lead at least 3 of my furry friends who have read through the forums to feel that they would not be happy or welcome here.

It has been a long time since this topic was first raised and I don't even remember my exact thoughts when I wrote the part that was quoted.  I believe the intent of my original post was to show that there are many furs who are either completely unconcerned about how are fandom is perceived outside and others who feel that our fandom really doesn't have much of a problem.

[firefox_b]

I am curious, but yellow.  Could anyone give examples of other boards or sites that are more radical or extreme than Furtopia?  I'd just like to get a feeling for the spectrum that's out there.  This doesn't mean that I'm looking for stuff to appeal to purient interests, heh...

[Kada-Ru]

Drake Blackpaw Posted on Dec. 15 2003, 2:03 pm

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Our reaction to the CSI episode amused some furs on other boards.  We also have a press/world is against us attitude so we must rally the wagons insulate our fandom the outside world.

From my point of view, there were a lot of differing views on the CSI episode. I think the personal views of the members doesn't really reflect the views of Furtopia as a whole. The other furs could have joined in and put in their view points as well. I'm sure on other forums there is individuality and not everyone is going to agree on the same subject. That is just life. Members here are no different. Everyone has their own beliefs and views on life, the fandom etc. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong. Nor does it make the forum they are on "that" way. People outside of Furtopia Forums, and those in here that visit other forums, must remember that thoughts on a subject are all individualized and not thought of as a whole.

To say that the Furtopia Forums has one way of looking at things, like the CSI episode, isn't correct because many members make up the forums and posted their personal views on the subject.

I saw the episode differently then others did. That doesn't mean that is how Furtopia Forums saw it.

Every response on every forum is a personal view point. Nothing more.

As for "insulating the fandom from the outside world" here at Furtopia Forums, I don't see that. As far as I remember a lot has been discussed about letting the outside world know about the fandom and what some times happens when a fur does. I really don't think that means that Furtopia is trying to insulate the fandom from the outside world. Perhaps that is some of the members individual perception but that is an individual's decision. Not Furtopia's.

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I have a couple furry friends I chat with daily who I met through some of the more sexually oriented areas of the fandom.  I have pointed them to furtopia as a place they may want to look at and they were turned off by a sense that the forum has a bias against the more adult parts of the fandom.

Furtopia is not biased against adult material. The forums here are PG-13 because we have a lot of minors that visit here.

As for adult content, there is adult content in members personal forums and on individual websites that are hosted here.

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We haven't had much discussion lately that brings out the feelings of forum members on adult/sexual content in the fandom, but the discussions we've had in the past have lead at least 3 of my furry friends who have read through the forums to feel that they would not be happy or welcome here.

If your friends are more interested in expressing themselves spontaneously in a sexual manner, like some furs tend to enjoy, then the main areas of Furtopia might not neccessarily be to their liking. We do have a lot of minors here and enforce a PG-13 rating on our general public forums because of this fact.

As far as members go some here are monogamous and some are polygamous. Others are Christian where as others yet are Shamanistic or prefer no religion at all. Furtopia has, from our (WS and mine) perception, a pretty wide diversity of beliefs and feelings. More so, we think, than a lot of places that seem pretty polarized.

As long as your friends are respectful to others feelings when expressing their views and keep adult material to the adult sections of the board (ie: personal forums and individual websites) they may find a nice and varied group of furs to converse with, if they wish to give Furtopia a try.

[Drake Blackpaw]

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Furtopia is not biased against adult material. The forums here are PG-13 because we have a lot of minors that visit here. As for adult content, there is adult content in members personal forums and on individual websites that are hosted here.

I don't think they have a problem with the forum's pg-13 rating and I certainly know that you and WS are not biased against adult content.  

I mention a "preceived bias" in the forum because that feeling has been expressed to me by a couple of furs.  Perceived doesn't mean it exists, just that some furs/people who have read through the posts on the forum have come away with the feeling that many members are unhappy with those who enjoy sexual content.  

Perception and reality are often two very different things.  I believe the reality is that there are a few very vocal anti-sexual content furs on the board, many furs that don't care one way, a good number who enjoy sexual content but shy away from defending it and one or two who will actually stand up and say it has a worthwhile place.  


No service or forum will ever please everybody in the fandom.  What I posted was not an attack on Furtopia nor a suggestion that it should at all change.  I enjoy it the way it is.   As much as furtopia tries to be a warm and welcoming place for all furs, there will always be some who feel uncomfortable.  Were just too diverse of a group, especially when it comes to views on sex and religion for the extreme ends to sit comfortably in the same room with each other.

We often seem to want to be furry apologists.  Oh, yes there is this dirty little part of the fandom, but that's really not what it's about.  Here's the sanatized stuff that most of us look at.  This may be overstating it a little, but it does feel like we rush to distance the sexual part whenever something like the CSI episode takes place.

*Chuckles* I have a feeling I may have put my foot in my mouth with my earlier posts and will be pulling fur out from between my teeth for a little bit.  '>

[Kada-Ru]

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I mention a "preceived bias" in the forum because that feeling has been expressed to me by a couple of furs.  Perceived doesn't mean it exists,

That's when you, as their friend, would explain to them why it is the way it is? Then, if in all honesty they prefer some place that is more into the adult part of the fandom, they aren't missing out or thinking we are biased against the adult side. We just know we have minors that do come here and that is the way we want Furtopia to be. Friendly to all, even minors.

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We often seem to want to be furry apologists.  Oh, yes there is this dirty little part of the fandom, but that's really not what it's about.  Here's the sanatized stuff that most of us look at.  This may be overstating it a little, but it does feel like we rush to distance the sexual part whenever something like the CSI episode takes place.

Again, that is everyone's own personal thoughts. The only reason adult conversations get over with quickly here or moved, is because we are PG-13 and the adult stuff belongs elsewhere. No one is told they can't talk about it, because believe me they do. Just not on the Furtopia Forums where the rating is PG-13.

You are right, no one can please all the people all the time. That is ok. I just took a bit of offense at the thought they didn't 'join' Furtopia because 'they' felt that Furtopia was biased against adult material and not because they didn't want to participate on a PG-13 forum. All that means is they only want to talk about the adult side of the fandom. As you also mentioned, there are those places out there and if they are more comfortable in those forums that is fine too.

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just that some furs/people who have read through the posts on the forum have come away with the feeling that many members are unhappy with those who enjoy sexual content.

Well, apparently they didn't join to find out? They don't know what the people on Furtopia are actually thinking just like we don't know what others are thinking.

I don't want to sound mean but it seems that they are acting just like the people out there that condone the fandom without even finding out for themselves. Instead of coming in and joining in on the conversations and getting involved with Furtopia, to find out whether or not they would be welcomed or even like it here, they just walked away and thought they would not be liked here.

Oh well. This can get into a debate which I am really not interested in getting into since it would only start arguments and not really solve anything.

People every where will have their own views of everthing else. There is nothing different with Furtopia. Every member has their own views, just like you and I do. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong, just that we see things in a different way. That is what makes life go around.

If everyone thought the same thing all the time, life would get VERY boring very quickly! '>

[weiwardwulf]

Whoa, I just reread my post and it seems kind of harsh.  Musta been in a real pissy mood from being sick and missing a party...

Anyways, my appologies.  Don't get me wrong, I love all my fellow furs and the fandom, even if we have our disagreements from tiem to time.

I do believe one of the keys to improving the fandom's image is to more clearly show a continuity between "accepted anthropomorphics" (which consists mostly of children's media) and anthropomorphics as commonly represented in the fandom.  The smut that the fandom generates (I confess myself to be a fan of it) is highly visible and constitutes an abrupt break from the innocence of mainstream anthropomorphics.  When people outside the fandom are exposed to it, reactions are understandably negative.

Basically, if we can generate more stories and visual art that portray furry in "mature situations" that aren't sexually graphic (ex: Romeo and Juliet), perhaps people will see furry as what it is for [I daresay] most furs:  a continuation of their love for anthropomorphics, born in a time of youth and evolved to reflect the more mature situations of their adult life.

Just some thoughts...  Hope I didn't step on any tails with my previous email which sounded quite negative.

Your friendly neighborhood wolf,

Weiward Wulf

[Pollen W]

I'm relatively new to furrydom, so don't assume I know what I'm talking about, but here comes something off the top of my head. This may not even reflect my own mercurial opinions. Don't take offence at it, it's all in the spirit of friendly debate.

Furry (as I perceive it)  belongs to the malcontents. It is largely populated by outcasts of many colors; being different is what we're all about. We are, whether we wish or not, essentially a counterculture. It is almost by definition that we should be misunderstood by society and misrepresented by the media.

Someday, that will change. Furry will be embraced by the mainstream, engulfed by it. This road has been traveled countless times before. The fandom will be taken out of the hands of the amateurs* by the billion-dollar content creation industry. Cartoon Network will run two hours of specially produced furry cartoons a day, including Sabrina Online: The Animated Series. Tails and ears from K-mart will be the height of teen fashion for a few months. Furries will become a target audience, and a damned profitable one at that. We will have fulfilled our destiny. The next generation of malcontents and outcasts will move on to something else equally misunderstood, as we the old guard stand on the sidelines bitter as old punk rockers.

There's my cynicism for the day. Look at history and please show me why I'm wrong. No, really, please--I don't want to be right.

*Amateur comes from a Latin root meaning "lover of".

[Ursan]

In order to show the lighter side of the fandom you will also have to make a clear statement that you accept and embrace the sexual aspects. Its all furry from Brother Bear appreciation to very explicit yiffy art. Most of the people I know that would have the 'lighter' side of furry shown to the world would have the less acceptable aspects completely detatched, which to me would be just as false as the current media perception.

[Jackalman]

I only feel comfortable about gathering in groups.  I get pounded on less that way.