Sports, and the National Anthem.

[Kobuk]

Trump made a big spectacle when he said that sports players should be fired for not standing during the National Anthem.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/23/politics/nfl-goodell-trump-response/index.html

How do others feel about what is going on in the sports community? Should players be allowed to continue to kneel and protest during the National Anthem? Or should they face some sort of punishment, if any, for their actions?

[Loc]

No punishment.

[Kobuk]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on this issue. While I do understand that some players are upset by various things that are going on in the U.S. right now and they feel the need to protest and/or be vocal about it, the playing field at a sports game is the wrong place to do it IMO. If they want to protest, then fine. Just do it somewhere else. Kneeling/protesting at a sports game is just wrong and shows a lot of disrespect for our country, the people who defend it, the sports community, etc. 

Suspensions, Firings, and/or Bannings are too strong IMO. Long before kneeling ever became an issue, I've been a proponent of reducing player's salaries as they are too incredibly high. Therefore, my recommendation is to reduce a player's salary every time that player kneels during a game. Or even better yet, have the player lose any advertising endorsements.

[cause the rat]

Agree with it or not it's free speech. No sports team or company owns an individual's rights. That's called slavery. As a country we do not have the constitutional rights to force someone into submission. They are not government employees. They are not members of the armed forces. They are Americans. Americans are protected by the constitution. Like it or not it's free speech.

Trump is a dictator. Trump supports and is strongly supported by the alt right and nazi groups. Trump is not someone who would lead this country into supporting an individuals constitutional rights. Unless those rights are the alt right or nazi. He has no problems supporting or even pardoning them.

[Varg the wanderer]

Free speech. The government should stay out of it, and the teams should think very hard about what they want the world to think about them. I wouldn't let a person who didn't stand play, because I would see my team as a representative of the city it was from. Just like if they went to a foreign game, I would expect them to stand for that anthem too.

But the government should keep it's damn hands out of it.

[Sither]

There should be no punishment as long ad the NFL and the individual teams allow it. They are a private busniess and can set forth their own rules for their employees.

With that being said yes it is their right to do this, but it also the right of people who disagree with it to respond as well. Speaking out on it, boycotting games either at home or at yhe stadiums etc. The rights of free speach and expression go both ways and both sides need to realize that there are going to be reactions to what they do.

I just wish people could realize what's happening here and has been for decades. It does not matter who is in office or in Congress. Clinton, Bush, Obama,and now Trump all got into power by telling lies and half-truths to fire up their base to get the vote.  Once in power the ALL work for themselves and will do some small things to keep their minion followers happy. All they are interested in is more political power and money for themselves.

If we want to really make a change and put fear into the corrupt government we need to cut our own puppet strings. We ALL need to come together white, black, gay, stright, trans, religious, atheist. Unify as one against the corruption and baiting by the government. Then and only then will we see change and be a better human race.

[Kobuk]

One thing's for sure: This whole Trump/NFL situation just goes to prove how racist Trump is and the divisiveness he is creating.       

[cause the rat]

I was extremely proud of the NFL today. Seeing the owners protesting with their teams was the most true American thing I've seen in ages.

[Kobuk]

I found the following on Facebook and thought I'd share for others to read.

To the NFL players who took a knee during the playing of the National Anthem:

So, you want to take a knee?

Take a trip to Valley Forge in January. Hold a musket ball in your fingers and imagine it piercing your flesh and breaking a bone or two. There won't be a doctor or trainer to assist you until after the battle. Wait your turn while listening to the screams of pain from the wounded.
Then take a knee.

Go to Normandy where man after American man stormed the beach, dodging dead bodies and withering machine gun fire,...the very sea stained with American blood. Imagine that your fellow players are your dead brothers in arms.
Then take a knee.

Take a knee in the sweat soaked jungles of Vietnam. Over 60,000 Americans died in those jungles.There was no playbook or million dollar contracts for doing your job, but they understood what our flag represented. When they came home, they were protested by their fellow Americans.
Then take a knee while they spit on you.

Take another knee in the blood drenched sands of Fallujah in 110 degree heat..Trade in your pads for a Kevlar helmet and battle dress...You'll have to stay hydrated, but there won't be anyone to squirt Gatorade into your mouth. And watch out for those IEDs when you take a knee.

There's a lot of places to take a knee. Americans have given their lives all over the world. When you use the banner under which they fought as a source for your protest, you dishonor the memories of those who bled for the very freedoms you have. That's what the red stripes mean. It represents the blood of those who spilled it defending your liberty.

So while you're on your knee, pray for those that came before you, not on manicured fields striped and printed with numbers to announce every inch of game yardage...but on nameless hills and bloodied beaches and sweltering forests and bitter cold mountains...every inch marked by an American life lost serving that flag you protest.

No cheerleaders, no announcers, no coaches, no fans....just American men and women on the land, air, and sea, delivering the real fight against those who chose to harm us...so you would have the opportunity to dishonor their service by "taking a knee."
You have no clue what it took to get you where you are...but your "protest" is duly noted. Not only is it disgraceful to a nation, it points to your ingratitude for those who chose to defend you under that banner that will still wave long after your stats and game jersey are forgotten...

[cause the rat]

That's all fine. But none of it addresses the real issues of why people are protesting. You can't hide behind patriotism and berry the truth. This isn't about the flag or the song. It's about the treatment of our fellow Americans. These same people will continue to turn a blind eye to Americans being treated poorly.

[Kobuk]

Here's my full viewpoints concerning the NFL and players who "take a knee".


I used to think that America's pastime was enjoying baseball, football, basketball, and other sports. But I guess that's just not the case anymore now. Seems the new "pastime", especially for professional sports players, is taking a knee when the national anthem plays as a way to protest inequality and other injustices.

When players are on the field, they need to play and concentrate on the game. Not dumping their political viewpoints/feelings on the playing field for all the fans and the world to see. If I'm paying money to go to a baseball, football, or other sporting event game to watch people play, then I damn well expect the players to play. That's what they are getting paid to do. I get enough various politics and protests on the tv, radio, newspaper, and Internet. I sure as hell don't need to see it at a sporting event where the main purpose of going to a sporting event is to relax and enjoy the game being played. Not to have my blood pressure rise because players won't stand for the national anthem.

While I do understand that some players are upset by various things going on in the U.S. and/or world and they feel the need to vent their frustrations and protest, doing so at a sporting event by kneeling during the national anthem is just wrong. Protest all you want. But do it somewhere else other than at a sporting venue.

Should players be suspended, fired, or even banned from playing if they kneel during the national anthem? I don't know. That's not for me to decide. I'll leave that up to the NFL.......if they decide to do anything that is.
Long before kneeling ever became an issue, I was always a proponent of cutting player's salaries. Why the hell are we giving them millions of dollars? For what? Cars? Fancy houses? Expensive vacations? I wouldn't mind seeing players take a cut to their salary every time they kneeled during a game. And have the pay cut increase exponentially for each successive kneel in future games. The more times a player kneels, the higher the pay cut goes. An added bonus would be for the player to lose any advertising endorsements also.

Should the government get involved and tell the NFL/players what to do? Frankly, I don't think it's any of their business. The government should concentrate on hurricane relief, foreign relations, health care (Yeah, right.), and other "government actions" that a President and other elected officials are supposed to do. Let the NFL deal with it. It's their mess after all. They need to take responsibility for it. Not the federal government. So if Donald Trump is saying that players should be fired for taking a knee, well, I hate to say it, but Mr. Trump isn't on The Apprentice anymore. So he has no right whatsoever to say that NFL players should be fired. The President, or any other elected official, has no business interfereing in private enterprises, which is what the NFL is.

Sadly though, these kneeling protests seem to be spreading to other sports affiliations like the NBA for example. How far will this go? How much more will we see of these kneeling protests? Too many I fear.  There's a lot of things I don't like in this country and/or in the world. But at the end of the day when everything is said and done, I'll still stand for the national anthem when it is played. Why? Because this country is my home and I'm grateful to the men and women who protect it and help keep it free.

A few links for further reading.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us/nfl-national-anthem-trump-kaepernick-history-trnd/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._national_anthem_protests_(2016%E2%80%93present)

[Acton]

As  a capitalist I say take my money  and time elsewhere than watch a bunch of spoiled overpaid brats and  watch real  futbol.

If I was an owner there would be some discipline or I trade them out.

[Movian]

Trevor noah raised an a good point on this.

https://youtu.be/4-Gx23vH0CE

Trump hasn't just said that football games are not the right place to protest, and as soon as you start limiting freedom of speech / protests like that it's at the least a bad sign.

Also the concept that kneeling is disrespectful is absurd..

[Michen_S]

I don't think kneeling is disrespectful at all. Besides, there is freedom of speech and we can use it in our advantage. Kneeling is just one way to do it, and it's a quiet, peaceful protest. It's the people who are offended by it who make all the fuzz about it. Oh, by the way, if I go to a sport event I come to see people playing the game, not just to see people standing during the national anthems.

[Varg the wanderer]

Also the concept that kneeling is disrespectful is absurd..

None of those examples are of people kneeling when standing is used to convey respect. To stand during any of those instances would be on par with kneeling during the anthem, just with fewer people to offend.

-Also, I'm pretty sure that Marine is presenting that flag to his fallen brother's son. Branches typically do not handle those honors between services.

Quite frankly, if they all want to kneel during the national anthem then let them do it. The wonderful powers of capitalism have made it clear to their bosses (the team owners and NFL) that the customers (the fans) are very unhappy with the acts of disrespect. Suddenly things are changing. Surprise !

[Kobuk]

I can probably handle players kneeling during the national anthem or players locking arms together. But the one thing more disrespectful than either of those and which pisses me off big time is when players refuse to go out onto the field and instead choose to stay in the locker room during the national anthem. Somebody needs to kick their butts out onto the field. 

[Loc]

It is their right to do whatever they want during the anthem. Forcing someone to do something against their beliefs is far worse in my eyes, as no one else is getting hurt or inconvenienced by it - How does a person not standing up for a song impact anyone else's lives at all?

[Shim]

I'm a bit "on the fence" on this issue. While I do understand that some players are upset by various things that are going on in the U.S. right now and they feel the need to protest and/or be vocal about it, the playing field at a sports game is the wrong place to do it IMO. If they want to protest, then fine. Just do it somewhere else. Kneeling/protesting at a sports game is just wrong and shows a lot of disrespect for our country, the people who defend it, the sports community, etc. 

Suspensions, Firings, and/or Bannings are too strong IMO. Long before kneeling ever became an issue, I've been a proponent of reducing player's salaries as they are too incredibly high. Therefore, my recommendation is to reduce a player's salary every time that player kneels during a game. Or even better yet, have the player lose any advertising endorsements.

Forced patriotism is fascism.

[Kobuk]

Forced patriotism is fascism.

That's your opinion, Shim. But I don't share it. As I previously said, I was, and still am, a proponent of reducing player's salaries long before kneeling ever became an issue. Sports players are getting paid wayyyyyyy too much.    IMO, reducing a player's salary is the "least forceful" option I can think of.

[Shim]

Forced patriotism is fascism.

That's your opinion, Shim. But I don't share it. As I previously said, I was, and still am, a proponent of reducing player's salaries long before kneeling ever became an issue. Sports players are getting paid wayyyyyyy too much.    IMO, reducing a player's salary is the "least forceful" option I can think of.

Then reduce everybody's salary, not kneeler. That's absolutely absurd.

[Old Rabbit]

No punishment. Playing the national anthem at the beginning
of sports events is a more of a tradition. In the past they didn't
even play the national anthem prior to play. It was likely
started during wartime or some other case where patriotism
was encuraged.

In fact it was March 4 1931 before we even had a national anthem.
So even those in government didn't even care prior to that. This
is just Trump trying to solidify his support base.


This kneeling by players is to bring attention to the poor treatment
of colored people in our society.