Wild Rose Country

[JonaWolf]

I finally managed to find a few free minutes to post Chapter 10 of Wild Rose Country. Go. Read, and tell me what you think.  '>

The next few weeks will be a deciding factor as to whether I return to the furry world or not. Taking a break has helped me work out a few things that were bugging me. A period of introspection can do wonders for one's mental health... '>

[Darius Greywind]

Wow, thats good stuff. Your writing skills have only improved since you started this story. Man I wish I could write like that.

[Rushjunkie2112]

Jon thanks for continuing your story. Hopefully my stuff will some day reach what you've attained in style and re-readability         '>  '>  

[Henrik]

Wow..if you where my neighbor i would go over right now and give you a beer. as always, SUPERB writing. '>

[cougar2k2]

Hello again,

First off, sorry for the late post.  Just got back yesterday from Minnisota.  Secondly, great chapter.  I love how the story is progressing at a nice, steady and very detailed pace.  If only some other authors could keep up that balancing act as well as you have.  But hey if they did you wouldn't be so unique.  Anyway I'm not saying anything new or that other haven't already said far more eliquently then what I am about to say.  Great job on inner thoughts of both characters and the overall story itself.  I love all the hidden subplot and inner stuggles that you have placed in the story even though we only have a slight hint at what those are thus far. Anywho keep it up and I truely hope you post the next chapter soon.

[JonaWolf]

Quote (Henrik @ Jan. 18 2004, 12:19 pm)

Wow..if you where my neighbor i would go over right now and give you a beer. as always, SUPERB writing. '>

Woohoo! beer! Too bad it's such a long, cold trip over the north Atlantic to get here. I bet all the beer would be frozen solid by then.   '>

Thanks for the comments guys. My life is finally slowing down a bit so I might actually have some time to work on the next chapter(s) in the upcoming weeks.

BTW, Steve over at anthrofiction.com is telling me that he should have the new chapter up pretty soon. '>

[JonaWolf]

Chapter 11 has now been posted. Sorry about the six month delay but life has been keeping me busy to the point that my computer and I are almost total strangers.  

[Henrik]

Yep i know the feeling, never have the time these days (except weekends) to do some computering  since its panic hay-day at work.

as the cornflakes tiger says, "IIIITTTTTTTSSSSS GRRRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAAATTTTT!!!!!!!!"

[Mordred]

Quote (JonaWolf @ July 07 2004, 10:31 pm)

Chapter 11 has now been posted. Sorry about the six month delay but life has been keeping me busy to the point that my computer and I are almost total strangers. Â

I have enjoyed your story so far.  It is a different spin on some of the stories I have read.  I hope you and your computer will get on better terms.

[ScottyDM]

Ahhh, Mr. Wolf, so we meet again...

<steps from the shadows>

 

[JonaWolf]

Welcome Mordred and Scotty DM, it's good to see you guys on the forums.  '>

Quote

never have the time these days (except weekends) to do some computering  since its panic hay-day at work.

Heh, sounds like my life Henrik. I might actually be able to get some decent computer time in when it's too cold for me to do anything outside. The summer is crazy time at work for me too.  '>

Thanks for the comments guys, and I'm glad you're enjoying the story so far.

[Varg the wanderer]

Yea, your stories are awsome.  Do you edit them yourself or do you get someone else to?  (or was I supposed to and didn't O.O, if so I'm sorry)    
                             varg

[JonaWolf]

I do most of my editing myself. Once I've done all I can I usually send the new chapter out to my editor for a second opinion. I usually send out the rough draft to another person or two just to get a general consensus on the new chapter. That's why I sent you the new chapter Varg.

[Simo]

I finally managed to find a few free minutes to post Chapter 10 of Wild Rose Country. Go. Read, and tell me what you think.

I realize that this is a work in progress, and, so far,it's quite compelling. However, it needs some fine tuning.

First off: what kind of story is this? Is it sci-fi or fantasy?

Quote

After a second or two, she opened her eyes again and was shocked to see the brilliant light and the crackling energy bolts fade away, leaving the sphere dark and silent as it ominously floated in the trees, waiting. Such a thing she had not even concieved was possible. It was like an apparition from a nightmare. A totally impossible object, terrifying yet intriguing at the same time. An inexplicable urge to get closer to the sphere possessed her. Terrified, she stood her ground. It was as if the sphere was beckoning to her, telling her to come closer.

This reads like the description of a technological artifact.: a quantum singularity, temporal anomaly, or wormhole. However, we are informed that John isn't a physicist, or a "test pilot" involved in an experiment gone wrong. (i.e. "The Philadelphia Experiment") He's just a guy who apparantly wrecked his truck, and somehow found himself in this predicament.

Next, we learn that Sharra has these unusual powers. She heals John's broken arm with just a touch, and then there's that business with the "Link". So this is beginning to resemble a fantasy?

Quote

She stood and stared at him in shock. Cloudy blue eyes returned her gaze with a flicker of amusement showing in their depths. One corner of his mouth twitched upwards and the look on his face softened. When after a moment or two she still hadn't found her voice, the creature spoke again. "Judging by the look on your face, I'll bet that you just understood what I said even though you have no clue what language I speak, right?" Sharra managed to gain enough control over her voice to utter a small "yes". His head bobbed up and down a couple of times and another vague expression flickered across his face. "I thought so. the same thing happened to me."

Wassupwiddat? Here is one enormous loose end. How is this possible? A technological artifact that John has somehow forgotten he has, due to the memory loss? If that's not the case, and since it's been established that Sharra has a gift of healing, then why not a gift of understanding? Is there another explanation that comes later?

Finding himself as a stranger in a strange land, he tries to survive in a world that has returned to the iron age.
Well, not exactly:

Quote

This one appears to be made of logs, chinked with... clay? A small table with a wash basin on it and an old mirror on the wall above it is a short distance away. [...] Slowly, while trying desperately to avoid a resurgence of activity from the jackhammer man in my skull, I turn my gaze in the opposite direction. This time I am rewarded with a view of an old pot bellied stove, a crude table and a couple of chairs, and a large stack of firewood. [...] There is an old kerosene lantern and a jug of some sort sitting on the table, as well as a row of blackened and battered pots and pans hanging beside some unidentifiable metal containers on a shelf next to the door. For a moment my gaze rests on an impressive set of moose antlers nailed to the wall above the shelf.

Sharra's tech is way beyond the Iron Age. The "pot bellied stove" (a.k.a Franklin stove) is a late 18th century invention; the kerosene lantern: from the mid-19th century. So why can't Sharra do her hunting with a flint-lock rifle? Or why doesn't John make himself a wood-laminated, recurvant bow ala the Huns and Mongols? Since they have all those deer bones and hides, animal glue for that would be no problem at all. That would fit better with what's been described as Sharra's level of technological sophistication. Getting this straightened out would be an improvement.

Otherwise, a most compelling storu indeed. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[ScottyDM]

Interesting Simo...

I'd noted a few things too. For me the biggest problem is the sphere gizmo. I would guess that is it just a convent way to get Jon into the future, and get he and Sharra together without it taking six chapters. Over on Anthrofiction.com JonaWolf has a different version of this story. What basically happens in chapter 3 here, takes chapters 1 through 6 over there (there is no sphere). And that the sphere seems to "want" to help or direct Sharra do rescue Jon is just too weird. Ah well...

Sharra can draw upon the life force all around her to heal Jon. Well, I suppose it could be a religious thing for her, not magic per se.

The link between Jon and Sharra. She did say it was common to all members of her species, perhaps the talent is strong enough to draw Jon in.

That Jon and Sharra could communicate immediately. Okay, another major weirdness brought to us by the sphere. I guess it helps the story along though...  

Is it the iron age? Building a new civilization on top of the remnants of a prior civilization is bound to create a mishmash of technologies. I would assume the anthro-wolves have been scavenging iron and other metals, which has given them a jump-start on their own technology. I get the impression that somewhere around 15,000 years has passed since humans ruled the earth, therefore I would not expect a log cabin (or unprotected cast iron) to survive. I'm hoping that Jon will go back to that road cut. If it was a railroad bed, perhaps he can dig down through the dirt that has settled over the tracks in spots, and recover the steel spikes. With a bit of work they might make nice spear points.

I'd not be too critical of Jon not knowing how to build a bow or knap flint. I've taken a class in the subject (hands on), it is not the sort of skill that comes naturally to modern humans. Jon just does not have a clue, it is little wonder that almost all of his attempts have ended in failure (the atlatl is turning out to be a success though). I guess if Jon does not find railroad spikes (preserved by being buried under several feet of soil), he could discover that smashing obsidian gives a very sharp edge and take it from there. Obsidian, the newbie's stone!     Okay, it is a bit on the fragile side, but wow is it sharp.

One thing I've been turning over in my mind, is how long Sharra has been alone after her tribe was wiped out. Mostly because in the other version of Wild Rose Country she's been alone for a longer period of time. Six months or two years? How long to let the poor girl "marinate" in her loneliness before this strange human comes into her life...

Cool story tho.

Scotty

[JonaWolf]

Now this is the kind of feedback an author needs to become a better writer!  '>

 

Quote ("Simo July 16 2004 @ 2:31 am")

First off: what kind of story is this? Is it sci-fi or fantasy?

Well, it's a little bit of both, but the sci-fi aspects of the story have only been hinted at yet.

Quote ("Simo July 16 2004 @ 2:31 am")

Wassupwiddat? Here is one enormous loose end. How is this possible? A technological artifact that John has somehow forgotten he has, due to the memory loss? If that's not the case, and since it's been established that Sharra has a gift of healing, then why not a gift of understanding? Is there another explanation that comes later?

Yeah, that's one big loose end that I've agonized over for some time. I thought it would be too tedious to have Sharra and John learn how to understand each other over time and was looking for a shortcut. There will be an explanation in later chapters and to give a small hint, I'm going to try and tie up this loose end with the sci-fi aspect of this story. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it works...

Strangley you're only the second person to  bring my attention to this loose end.

Quote ("Simo July 16 2004 @ 2:31 am")

Sharra's tech is way beyond the Iron Age. The "pot bellied stove" (a.k.a Franklin stove) is a late 18th century invention; the kerosene lantern: from the mid-19th century. So why can't Sharra do her hunting with a flint-lock rifle? Or why doesn't John make himself a wood-laminated, recurvant bow ala the Huns and Mongols? Since they have all those deer bones and hides, animal glue for that would be no problem at all. That would fit better with what's been described as Sharra's level of technological sophistication. Getting this straightened out would be an improvement.

Yes this is another big loose end (after five years of writing the same story my outline has changed enough that a few of those have crept in here and there ), but are the crude pieces of technology found in and around the cabin actually produced by Sharra's people? Maybe, maybe not. There may be another explanation forthcoming, or a re-write.... '>

Quote ("ScottyDM July 20 2004 @ 2:32 am")

I'd not be too critical of Jon not knowing how to build a bow or knap flint. I've taken a class in the subject (hands on), it is not the sort of skill that comes naturally to modern humans. Jon just does not have a clue, it is little wonder that almost all of his attempts have ended in failure (the atlatl is turning out to be a success though). I guess if Jon does not find railroad spikes (preserved by being buried under several feet of soil), he could discover that smashing obsidian gives a very sharp edge and take it from there. Obsidian, the newbie's stone!      Okay, it is a bit on the fragile side, but wow is it sharp.

Knowledge without practical skill doesn't mean much. I too have experimented with stone knapping, spear and bow making and other such things. I've read about how those things are done and know a bit about the theory behind their fabrication, but it's quite another to actually try your hand at them.

Quote ("ScottyDM July 20 2004 @ 2:32 am")

One thing I've been turning over in my mind, is how long Sharra has been alone after her tribe was wiped out. Mostly because in the other version of Wild Rose Country she's been alone for a longer period of time. Six months or two years? How long to let the poor girl "marinate" in her loneliness before this strange human comes into her life...

I've even confused myself on that point. I'm thinking that six months isn't quite long enough, but perhaps two years is a little much. *shrugs* Just another area that may get a re-write given time.

Sorry for the late replies to your posts ScottyDM and Simo, but I haven't been able to get near my computer recently.

Thanks for the great comments!

[Varg the wanderer]

Quote

Is it the iron age? Building a new civilization on top of the remnants of a prior civilization is bound to create a mishmash of technologies. I would assume the anthro-wolves have been scavenging iron and other metals, which has given them a jump-start on their own technology. I get the impression that somewhere around 15,000 years has passed since humans ruled the earth, therefore I would not expect a log cabin (or unprotected cast iron) to survive. I'm hoping that Jon will go back to that road cut. If it was a railroad bed, perhaps he can dig down through the dirt that has settled over the tracks in spots, and recover the steel spikes. With a bit of work they might make nice spear points.

 
I would think that after being buried un the wet ground for so the only usable steel would be about the size of a nail, the rest would be just a big rust deposit.  As for scavanging, they might have found  things like aluminum, zink, copper and such but anything iron would have been corroded by the time they came around, and unless they had the technolagy to convert all that rust into iron again it would be useless.  Knife blades and the other stuff can be beaten out by a blacksmith, but the cast iron stove is a puzzler because it's CAST.  With the technolagy we'v seen so far it must have cost a fortune if it was even possible to make at that time.   Youd think that whoever previously owned the cabin would have tried to take it with them...
   I assume that this "link" is how they can communicate with each other, and I'm interested to learn more about it also.  What happens if he meets others of her kind?  Will he be able to talk with them too?

[ScottyDM]

Quote (Varg the wanderer @ July 21 2004, 8:53 pm)

I would think that after being buried un the wet ground for so the only usable steel would be about the size of a nail, the rest would be just a big rust deposit.

That depends on the depth of burial and the moisture content of the soil. If the soil is wet enough, most oxygen will be excluded and corrosion will be slowed drastically. Also having the bulk of the spike buried in creosote soaked wood can make a huge difference too. Perhaps at a depth of a meter or more (3 1/2 feet), and in combination with the creosote, the good solid steel at the center of the spike would be about the diameter of a human thumb. But you're right, a shallowly buried spike would be mostly a red stain in the soil.

Quote (Varg the wanderer @ July 21 2004, 8:53 pm)

I assume that this "link" is how they can communicate with each other, and I'm interested to learn more about it also.  What happens if he meets others of her kind?  Will he be able to talk with them too?

Okay, I need to read the story again, a little more critically to get it all straight. But my impression was that the link and the ability of Jon to speak "wolfish" are unrelated. The "wolfish" thing seems to be related to the "techno-magic" of that sphere. The link seems to be something that anthro-wolves normally experience between mated pairs -- which is why Sharra was surprised that she experienced it with Jon.

The sphere bugs me. I understand why it was used (to simplify getting into the meat of the story), but it just seems a little too magic or something. Like the black monolith.

Perhaps the transformation could all be on Jon's end -- he accidently stumbles into a government project which hurtles him into the future ("Damn, where did that civilian come from? Shut the generator down. Shut it down!"), and at the same time transforms the subjects so they can understand the "locals" when they get to the future (part of the design of the technology). It would be good if there was some solid reason why no one but Jon comes through the portal. Maybe he breaks it, or maybe a two-way trip kills the subjects (get a few dead subjects back and they shut down the project).

While the Anthrofiction.com version of this story is interesting, and a realistic way for them to meet. This story's version has some fun moments with Jon stumbling around in the dark, his shock at discovering that Sharra is his benefactor, etc. This version also keeps the reader guessing. I can see jumping between three scenes: Jon's point of view, slowly learning of his surroundings and benefactor. Sharra's point of view, finding Jon and getting him to safety. And the government lab-types point of view, running this experiment and suddenly being shocked at seeing Jon drop in unexpectedly.

Of course the "accidental time traveler stumbles into a government project" has been done before.

Scotty

[JonaWolf]

Quote ("Varg the Wanderer July 21 2004 @ 8:53 pm")

I would think that after being buried un the wet ground for so the only usable steel would be about the size of a nail, the rest would be just a big rust deposit.  As for scavanging, they might have found  things like aluminum, zink, copper and such but anything iron would have been corroded by the time they came around, and unless they had the technolagy to convert all that rust into iron again it would be useless.

Quote ("ScottyDM 23 2004 @ 2:49 am")

That depends on the depth of burial and the moisture content of the soil. If the soil is wet enough, most oxygen will be excluded and corrosion will be slowed drastically. Also having the bulk of the spike buried in creosote soaked wood can make a huge difference too. Perhaps at a depth of a meter or more (3 1/2 feet), and in combination with the creosote, the good solid steel at the center of the spike would be about the diameter of a human thumb. But you're right, a shallowly buried spike would be mostly a red stain in the soil.

Interesting points guys... I've done a little research on this subject and what I have discovered makes me think that most metals wouldn't survive the interim between John's time and Sharra's time in a recognizable form. Gold would, and perhaps some large pieces of aluminum, but anything iron or steel would have long since rusted away by the time Sharra and John showed up unless exceptional and unlikely circumstances are involved.

However, there are several non-metallic substances that may have survived the thousands of years relatively intact...

Quote ("ScottyDM 23 2004 @ 2:49 am")

But my impression was that the link and the ability of Jon to speak "wolfish" are unrelated. The "wolfish" thing seems to be related to the "techno-magic" of that sphere. The link seems to be something that anthro-wolves normally experience between mated pairs -- which is why Sharra was surprised that she experienced it with Jon.

The sphere was my way of making Jon's appearance sufficiently unusual so that the reader might wonder what or who exactly is behind it.  As for Sharra and John's ability to understand each other, it is related to the sphere in a way, but probably not in the way most people are thinking. That's all I'm gonna say for now.  '>

Quote ("ScottyDM 23 2004 @ 2:49 am")

The sphere bugs me. I understand why it was used (to simplify getting into the meat of the story), but it just seems a little too magic or something. Like the black monolith.

Yeah, I've often wondered if I over did it on that part. Yet one thing to keep in mind is that what might appear to be magic to an untrained and slightly primitve anthro wolf probably has a not so magical origin and explanation.

Quote ("ScottyDM 23 2004 @ 2:49 am")

I can see jumping between three scenes: Jon's point of view, slowly learning of his surroundings and benefactor. Sharra's point of view, finding Jon and getting him to safety. And the government lab-types point of view, running this experiment and suddenly being shocked at seeing Jon drop in unexpectedly.

Well I think I'm not giving up too much when I say that you're right on there being another point of view added to the story soon. As for who's point of view it will be, I think that it will surprise a few people, except my editor. He's already seen it  '>

[Simo]

Strangley you're only the second person to  bring my attention to this loose end.

Not so strange, I write too, and stuff like that just sort of leaps right off the page.

I was once considering a story much like Wild Rose Country, but I couldn't get the D4|V||\| thing to work right. Too much influence from two movies: The Final Countdown and The Philadelphia Experiment. It would be too much like just "Furring Up" the pre-existing stories.  '>

Not gonna do that.

[ScottyDM]

Well Jona, I actually went back and started to reread Wild Rose Country. I ran into this in the Introduction (paragraph 7):

Quote

I still do not truly understand the means by which I came to be on this world, though I now have some inkling as to the purpose for which I was brought here.

So Jon knows there was an outside influence, which implies a third point of view, and also that he is not there by accident.

If this were a printed novel, revelation as to the third point of view could be further back in the book. Unfortunately, with a web-novel, there are *long* delays between chapters. One cannot simply stay up all night to read through to the end of the book.

If there ever is a version 4 of Wild Rose Country, then perhaps a hint; a 1 or 2 paragraph "micro-chapter" between 3 and 4. Chapters 1 and 2 are Jon's point of view (and could maybe be merged), chapter 3 is Sharra's point of view, and a new chapter after 3 could give the reader a hint that there is a third point of view -- then the story continues from there.

Well, enough Over Analysis for now. Fantastic story Jon, you've gotten me to care about these characters.

Scotty

[ScottyDM]

I could edit my last post...  and it seems odd to respond to my own post, but this is appropriate.

I've just finished rereading chapters 1 through 10, in one go, slowly, letting it all soak in.

The structure is right. There is no need for a third point of view after chapter 3. The clues are all there, but very subtle. There are a few puzzling details -- I'm puzzled Jona, by some of your choices, but perhaps they well all work out. This story is written by Jon (or John, his name changes) and Sharra, although the Introduction hints that others may contribute in later chapters. It seems unlikely that the external force that propels Jon and Sharra together, would ever record their thoughts in this journal, this story.

Whatever it is that brought these two together could always remain an enigma, a shadow at the edge of their understanding. This would, perhaps, be perfect.

And now a question: When will Jon ever learn to cook without burning his dinner?

Scotty

[JonaWolf]

Quote ("Simo July 28 2004 @ 1:52 am")

Strangley you're only the second person to  bring my attention to this loose end. Not so strange, I write too, and stuff like that just sort of leaps right off the page. I was once considering a story much like Wild Rose Country, but I couldn't get the D4|V||\| thing to work right. Too much influence from two movies: The Final Countdown and The Philadelphia Experiment. It would be too much like just "Furring Up" the pre-existing stories.  '> Not gonna do that.

The only other person to point out my large collection of loose ends was an author as well. Maybe what I need is more authors to read my stuff so they can point out where I screw up...  

Writing a truly original story these days is a difficult thing. There are so many outside influences that it can be tough to know exactly where an idea came from. I'll openly admit that there are aspects of WRC that have been heavily influenced by what I have read and seen over the years.

Quote ("ScottyDM July 29 2004 @ 3:41 am")

This story is written by Jon (or John, his name changes)

Doh! stupid typos... It should be John.

Quote ("ScottyDM July 29 2004 @ 3:41 am")

although the Introduction hints that others may contribute in later chapters. It seems unlikely that the external force that propels Jon and Sharra together, would ever record their thoughts in this journal, this story.

That is one aspect of the third POV that has bothered me since day one...

Quote ("ScottyDM July 29 2004 @ 3:41 am")

Whatever it is that brought these two together could always remain an enigma, a shadow at the edge of their understanding. This would, perhaps, be perfect.

Perhaps... I have thought of taking that course but I'm still undecided. I'm beginning to think that revealing the third POV might be a great way to tie the end of the story into the beginning....

Quote ("ScottyDM July 29 2004 @ 3:41 am")

And now a question: When will Jon ever learn to cook without burning his dinner?

Maybe....  '>  Cooking on a heat source that is difficult to control is NOT easy...

[Simo]

Quote

Writing a truly original story these days is a difficult thing. There are so many outside influences that it can be tough to know exactly where an idea came from. I'll openly admit that there are aspects of WRC that have been heavily influenced by what I have read and seen over the years.

"Originality" is a difficult thing to determine, in any age. However, there are "rip-off's" ( small 'r'  ) does anyone really mind that West Side Story was a Romeo and Juliette (which was, in turn, taken from a much older story) "rip-off"? Not hardly. While obvious where the story came from, it was different enough, and fresh enough, to not matter that much. Wild Rose Country doesn't have that problem either. Whatever those external influences are, they don't just leap off the page and announce: "Here's a rip-off!" OK, I'll admit to 2001: A Space Odessey flash-backs when reading about that funkey sphere. That doesn't affect the story's originality. (Of course, if WRC was a tale of a magical sphere that created anthro-wolves, flash forward a million years, find another magical sphere on the moon that holds all the secrets of their creation, yada, yada, yada: then there'd be a problem    )

It's the "RIP-OFF's" ( big 'R' ) that really bother me: just change a little here and there, just to stay to this side of an outright plagarism, and keep the legal dept. happy. I suppose I could increase my output by doing so. Perhaps no one would notice or object too much?

Still, not gonna do that.  '>

[JonaWolf]

Quote ("Simo Aug. 04 2004 @ 12:59 am")

It's the "RIP-OFF's" ( big 'R' ) that really bother me: just change a little here and there, just to stay to this side of an outright plagarism, and keep the legal dept. happy. I suppose I could increase my output by doing so. Perhaps no one would notice or object too much? Still, not gonna do that. '>

That's good. I hate those kinds of rip-offs just as much as you do and I've seen more than enough of them around.

Far better to have as much originality in one's work as possible...