Author Topic: Banning books on race and gender.  (Read 566 times)

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Offline Kobuk

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Banning books on race and gender.
« on: September 07, 2022, 09:57:46 pm »
In the last several months, there's been a flurry of activity in Texas, Florida, and other states to ban or limit books in schools and libraries on the topics of race and gender. It doesn't matter whether the books are fiction or non-fiction, books for adults or books for children, and everything in between.
Here is just one example news story:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/07/us/book-bans-school-changes-reaj/index.html

How do you feel about books being banned on race and gender topics? Or any other topic?
Do you agree with the bans or do you believe that you should have the right to decide for yourself what you want or not want to read, and not have politicians or other people decide for you?

Me? I'm all for book freedom. I will decide for myself what I want to read. Not somebody else. You can have my book (whatever it may be) when you pry it from my cold dead paws.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2022, 01:00:25 am »
So how else do we know that banned books... Nazi Germany. Simple equation. Nazi = Republican therefor Republican = Nazi.
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Offline Kay Alett

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2022, 03:35:45 pm »
So how else do we know that banned books... Nazi Germany. Simple equation. Nazi = Republican therefor Republican = Nazi.
That's a bit Godwin-y Cause but I will say that no one good or on the side of equal freedoms has banned books and/or knowledge. Republican or Democrat or other.
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Offline Firelight

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2022, 06:17:04 pm »
Why the fork are we still banning books?! Kids and adults need books like these and if they start banning warrior cats then I'll have lost what little faith I have in humanity  :goldbloody:

Offline Simo

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2022, 01:43:05 am »
So how else do we know that banned books... Nazi Germany. Simple equation. Nazi = Republican therefor Republican = Nazi.

Spoken like a true leftoid. Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, and all their vassal states banned books too. I'm sure North Korea still does. So what's your point? Authoritarian regimes gotta authoritarien.

It's a false equivalency when it comes to discussions as to what materials are age appropriate for children. Censoring adults is never acceptable.
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2022, 03:00:55 pm »
Freedom of speech. Freedom of creativity. Freedom of self expression. These are American values. If 'righty' values differ then they are no longer American. These "lefty' values are the reason you can be a furry. "Righy" lie and falsely accuse the furry fandom. "Lefty" gives freedom. "Righty" seeks to take freedom away. "Lefty" believe that all points of view are equal. "Righty" believes their point of view is the only one.

"Lefty" = American
"Righty" = Nazi

It is very cut and dry.

Praising oppressive governments for banning books is very "righty" of you.  If there was anything in those books that wasn't appropriate they would not have been in schools to begin with. Banning them because they have different views than "righty" is wrong. Is anti-American. Cut and dry.
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Offline Simo

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2022, 06:08:27 pm »
This is nonsense.


Freedom of speech. Freedom of creativity. Freedom of self expression. These are American values. If 'righty' values differ then they are no longer American. These "lefty' values are the reason you can be a furry. "Righy" lie and falsely accuse the furry fandom. "Lefty" gives freedom. "Righty" seeks to take freedom away. "Lefty" believe that all points of view are equal. "Righty" believes their point of view is the only one.

"Lefty" = American
"Righty" = Nazi

It is very cut and dry.

Praising oppressive governments for banning books is very "righty" of you.  If there was anything in those books that wasn't appropriate they would not have been in schools to begin with. Banning them because they have different views than "righty" is wrong. Is anti-American. Cut and dry.
[/color]
Let's take this one at a time.

"Freedom of speech. Freedom of creativity. Freedom of self expression".

Who is it that's destroying these freedoms? That would be Facebook, Twitter, Google, YouTube -- all run by far left CEOs like Zuckerberg. They are the ones doing the shadow banning, the demonitizations, and the outright banning: always of conservative opinions, never leftist.  It's leftist college boys who resort to violence to silence consrvatives such as Ben Shapiro and Ann Coulter. Political Correectness is about nothing other than suppressing freedom of speech.

" "Righy" lie and falsely accuse the furry fandom".

Evidence please? This has not been my experience. When the subject comes up, the furbashing always happens on left sites, never conservative ones.

""Lefty" gives freedom. "Righty" seeks to take freedom away"

Like bans on autoloading (misidentified as assault rifles) rifles that would deny me the freedom of purchasing an AR-15? Or "vaccine" mandates that would deny pure bloods the right to travel, go to school or work? Last time I checked, it wasn't Republicans or conservatives doing that.

""Lefty" believe that all points of view are equal"

Demonstrates just how mindless lefties really are. Phlogiston Theory is not equal to Oxidization Theory. Creationism is not equal to Evolution. Astrology is not equal to Astronomy. Flat Earth is not equal to Round Earth. All points of view are not at all equal.

""Lefty" = American
"Righty" = Nazi"

You do understand that "Nazi" is the English mispronounciation of the German acronym: NSDAP? What does NSDAP stand for? Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. What does that mean? National Socialist German Workers Party. Doesn't sound very conservative to me. However, "Nazi" is another thought stopper that means nothing more than "I don't like you".

"Praising oppressive governments for banning books is very "righty" of you"

Congratulations, you learned your Rules for Radicals: accusing the opposition of being/saying/doing what the left really is being/saying/doing/. I did no such thing and you know it.

"If there was anything in those books that wasn't appropriate they would not have been in schools to begin with".

How would they know unless there was an honest debate? There has always been differing opinions as to what is age appropriate and what is not. There have long been controversies over such books as Catcher ibn the Rye or The Learning Tree. These decisions are best left to the parents and their representatives on local school boards.

When you come down to the basics, there are only two political philosophies. One is to disperse state power as widely as possible, to place it in the hands of the people. This is what the authors of the Constitution tried to do with a system of checks and balances between the legislarture that enacts laws, an executive that enforces laws, and a judiciary that intreprets laws. It is also why the United STATES was organized as a federation of semi-autonomous states -- a fourth branch of government.

The other philosophy is to concentrate state power in a central government that becomes large and highly intrusive. This is the system you find in Communist China or North Korea. Is this really what you want?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 10:54:36 pm by Simo »
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2022, 04:54:47 am »
Shadow banning is a lie. Social media sites have rules. Break those rules and you get banned. Both far left and far right posters get banned for breaking rules. Shadow Banning is a lie used by extremists to make it sound like they are victims of censorship.

Evidence? So your claiming to have never heard about furries using litter boxes in schools? Or how furries use transgender bathrooms? Or do you believe these "righty" lies?

The constitution does not give you the right to buy anything. The government has now and has always had the right to regulate what weapons you can own. it is a right wing lie to say otherwise. And a favorite tactic. As soon as someone points out facts the far right scream "GUN CONTROL" It's very "righty" to hold onto a lie to prove a point.

The idea that all view points are equal does not mean all view points are right. Making an argument that a view point should be right is right wing propaganda. You have done well to prove my point.

Nazi was a far right extremist government far removed from the labor party. The labor party would have never invaded Poland. Your historical reference is flawed.  No. Nazi does not mean "I don't like you".

"Spoken like a true leftoid. Stalinist Russia,  Maoist China and all their vassal states banned books too.  I'm sure North Korea still does. So what's your point? Authoritarian regimes gotta authoritarian." Yes. You praised oppressive governments. You made it clean you believe America should also be oppressive and ban books as well.

Thank you. The rest of your post was as argument against the far right. So you claim I'm for the far right by arguing against them? How "righty" of you.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 05:04:41 am by cause the rat »
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Offline cause the rat

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2022, 05:15:09 am »
Now here's an exercise you can do. You can prove to yourself that "righty" views are the same as communists. Look up old Fox New Network's programs on these topics.

"Critical thinking is a waist of time"
"Well educated people are dangerous"
"Free thinkers are dangerous"
"Thinking outside the box is dangerous"

Far right equals nazi therefor nazi equals far right. This reads like Hitler's Manifesto.
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Offline Kobuk

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2022, 09:13:39 am »
Guys, you're getting off topic about my topic which is supposed to be about discussing banning books about race and/or gender/sexual orientation.  >:(

Let's get back to questions like:
Should schools and/or libraries stock these types of books? Or ban them?
Do politicians have the right to ban these types of books?
What rights do parents have or not have in what is selected at the school/library for reading material?

Offline Kay Alett

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2022, 12:17:21 pm »


Let's get back to questions like:
Should schools and/or libraries stock these types of books? Or ban them?
Do politicians have the right to ban these types of books?
What rights do parents have or not have in what is selected at the school/library for reading material?

Should these books be in schools? I think age appropriate books on these subjects should be in schools, sure.
Teach kids from an early age that being gay is okay and gay people aren't dangerous.

Teach them that skin color is just that, color, it has no bearing on a person's character.
Then as they grow up introduce more complicated topics on top.

Should politicians ban these books? What gives them the right? Politicians do not get to decide for the people what should and should not be taught in the schools.

If schools aren't going to teach the kids about these kinds of subjects parents must.

Banning books is just asinine. Let people read, let them see and if the author is wrong then they will only condemn themselves.
It's censorship and censorship is just flat out wrong. I don't care how loudly you scream "won't someone think of the children".

I could go on but I'm close to getting off topic and taking the offramp to censorship debate county and we're not here for that.
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Offline Jade Sinapu

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2022, 08:35:31 pm »
Some children have parents who's knowledge base is far lacking.  For one reason or another. Opportunity,    income,  skill level etc...

  A school may be one of the few places they can gain knowledge on a topic. Banning a book will easily direct that child ( who is still learning. And who's family is lacking that knowledge) into a narrow path by excluding things from their path.
It's a way to control.

I believe in traditional education,  where it is more like you throw lots of views and topics at them and they decide.  Find their own path.  Of course complexity ramps up as they age.

I work with a guy who is home schooling his kids.  He is knowledgeable.   But he is often asking others when he needs to know how to teach his kids a new skill.  I bring this up because at a school his kids could be exposed to many more books because they probably  have a bigger library.   I worry they will be unprepared compared to someone who had more choices and exposure.
It's similar to banning books or ideas.  It's limiting choice, when a person doesn't most likely know they are being limited. 
That kids might grow up to resent it.


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Offline DDD

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2022, 03:55:19 am »
Books should be appropriate for the intended audience.
Same for games, movies, music etc.

As for books intended for adult readers, the content should be reviewed by a wide board of experts over all fields internationally, with each of their advice published as a sort of "disclaimer" preface.
If the wide board of experts deemed the material unsuitable (due to legal, psychological reasons...) it should be restricted material that one needs to apply to access (and give a valid reason as to why).

My reason for this:
A lot of media is currently heavily one sided or almost like propaganda. Having comments by a wide field of experts would allow the reader to see the other sides of the topics covered.

Also, there is a lot of talk about left politics and right politics. I really hate seeing this, as it turns people against each other. I feel it is really important to try and find common ground, make compromises, not deal with absolutes.

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Offline BlueStreak

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 02:51:00 pm »
Remember back in the late 80s and early 90s, when there was a big crusade to stick Parental Advisory stickers on music that some organizations deemed "unacceptable" for kids?

Remember how that was ignored by parents who found its guidelines to be overreaching, didn't do anything to stop the spread of such music, was arbitrarily enforced, and turned into a ringing endorsement of said music for any kid who wanted to stick it to their uptight parents?

This is just as stupid.

Offline cause the rat

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Re: Banning books on race and gender.
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2022, 05:52:08 pm »
BlueStreak, agreed. However the real difference between the two is back then they labeled the works. You could still get them. Now they are banning the works. You can no longer make up your own mind whether you choose to read them or not. A communist party has made that decision for you.

I think more people bought '2 live Crew' because of the warring labels. 
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