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not-so-furry discussion => news forum => Topic started by: Rocco on January 23, 2017, 03:30:48 pm

Title: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 23, 2017, 03:30:48 pm
This Presidency is the first time I've really been old enough to be interested in politics and not just follow what is presented to me as fact. Let's judge Trump. Not on what he has said or done, but how he does as POTUS. His executive orders, his leadership, his appointments, his deals, his words, everything after inauguration comes into play now. We are not judging Congress, just President Trump. I'm quite curious to see both if this thread can stay relevant and if so, see the change in opinion over his term as President. Poll will stay open as long as Trump is President, feel free to change your vote as many times as you like.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on January 23, 2017, 04:07:20 pm
The man is a sexist, racist monster.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 23, 2017, 04:47:24 pm
And before Hitler got into power he was an awesome guy. Even for a while during his early years people loved him. Past is past. Nothing we can do can change his Presidency. All I want to know is what people think of how he does as POTUS, mainly policy wise.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 23, 2017, 04:59:01 pm
I'll add the majority of my views sometime later. For now, I say Impeach the Bastard!  :goldpissed:

And if anybody votes "Best ever!", then I'm going to do my own form of "immigration policy" and kick that person out of the country with my size 11 boots.  >:(
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on January 23, 2017, 05:00:15 pm
His personality will bleed into his policies. He has already broken promises he made. He brands lies as "alternative facts". He has massive conflicts of interests between his personal and business dealings and his job as president. He lashes out at free speech. And who knows what is going on with him and Russia.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 23, 2017, 06:30:19 pm
i put amazing for the time being. hopefully i do not regret that though. (this is in comparison to other candidates/presidents)

likes:
-doesn't follow all of the political correctness stuff
-doesn't listen to those whiny social justice warriors
-wants to fix relations with Russia
-wants to move jobs back here/fix infrastructure

dislikes:
-his use of language could improve a little (though it is also entertaining so im not too sure where to put this)
-exaggerating many things
-wants to help out Christians (likely meaning that churches get to keep those tax free polices)
-his vp choice (though i dont blame him too much, place someone worse than you as next in line of presidency and people will be less likely to kill you.. though i doubt lost SJWs even realize that...)


ill add more if i think of any.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Varg the wanderer on January 23, 2017, 09:07:27 pm
So far I think he's heading in the right direction, but only time will tell.

He just killed TPP (thank God), so that is a big step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 23, 2017, 10:07:09 pm
Not even one week in office. Another problem. One of his cabinet members is under investigation for phone calls made to a Russian official.

First day in office. Lies to the American people. Continues his attack on the media. Lies again stating it was the media who said he had a problem with the CIA.

Count down to impeachment.

188 days.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 23, 2017, 10:12:38 pm
What would it really take to impeach Trump? Read here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-set-impeachment-article-1.2950501
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Shim on January 23, 2017, 10:13:51 pm
i put amazing for the time being. hopefully i do not regret that though. (this is in comparison to other candidates/presidents)
likes:
-doesn't follow all of the political correctness stuff
-doesn't listen to those whiny social justice warriors
-wants to fix relations with Russia
-wants to move jobs back here/fix infrastructure

Haha, what? Political correctness and "whiny social justice warriors". Do you mean not being a terrible person? Jesus.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kaiden on January 23, 2017, 10:25:53 pm
By the pricking of thy thumb, something evil this way comes.

Honestly I don't know enough about what he's done to make a judgement, because I tend to avoid politics (There are so many people involved that it seems almost pointless to partake in it).

I will say this though, I'm sure there is a learning curve to being a president and being in politics.

No opinion at this time, but I feel this thread is going to get ugly, fast.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 23, 2017, 11:34:20 pm
The man is a blusterous dunderhead. The fact that he got elected makes me extremely nervous about the direction the world is heading in.

i put amazing for the time being. hopefully i do not regret that though. (this is in comparison to other candidates/presidents)

likes:
-doesn't follow all of the political correctness stuff
-doesn't listen to those whiny social justice warriors
-wants to fix relations with Russia
-wants to move jobs back here/fix infrastructure

dislikes:
-his use of language could improve a little (though it is also entertaining so im not too sure where to put this)
-exaggerating many things
-wants to help out Christians (likely meaning that churches get to keep those tax free polices)
-his vp choice (though i dont blame him too much, place someone worse than you as next in line of presidency and people will be less likely to kill you.. though i doubt lost SJWs even realize that...)


ill add more if i think of any.

Why do you care more about sticking it to SJWs than having intelligent and forward-thinking leadership for your nation?

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 24, 2017, 02:24:04 am
No opinion at this time, but I feel this thread is going to get ugly, fast.
You can say that again. I was hoping people, left and right, would actually put his past behind him and judge him from inauguration day on.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Acton on January 24, 2017, 02:27:54 am
Far as  I can say he has not done one thing that is impeachable  While I  still  have a few issue he has done some good.

Calling  for  cancellation of Air force one  replacement for cost overruns, and studding  the effectiveness of the F-18 Super Hornet to the f-35. I hope he follows through  Somebody need to stand  up to the defense industry. While he is at it he needs to junk the DG- 1000 program and Boeing's Orion space craft. I also like him standing up to China.  I sick of  50 Years of China saying  jump over Taiwan and the US says how high.

His  trade and immigration policy are very problematic to me.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 24, 2017, 04:24:22 am
No opinion at this time, but I feel this thread is going to get ugly, fast.
You can say that again. I was hoping people, left and right, would actually put his past behind him and judge him from inauguration day on.
The man himself makes it impossible to do so as he treats any criticism of him as some kind of personal insult and reacts as such. He's either not capable or not willing to separate himself from his profession.

His cabinet appointments are also hilariously poor.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 24, 2017, 04:37:29 am
Spoiler: show
i put amazing for the time being. hopefully i do not regret that though. (this is in comparison to other candidates/presidents)

likes:
-doesn't follow all of the political correctness stuff
-doesn't listen to those whiny social justice warriors
-wants to fix relations with Russia
-wants to move jobs back here/fix infrastructure

dislikes:
-his use of language could improve a little (though it is also entertaining so im not too sure where to put this)
-exaggerating many things
-wants to help out Christians (likely meaning that churches get to keep those tax free polices)
-his vp choice (though i dont blame him too much, place someone worse than you as next in line of presidency and people will be less likely to kill you.. though i doubt lost SJWs even realize that...)


ill add more if i think of any.


Why do you care more about sticking it to SJWs than having intelligent and forward-thinking leadership for your nation?

well to a certain extent i do consider him intelligent/able to run this country better than hillary. i never said i care more about battling the sjw than actually having a functioning leadership

Haha, what? Political correctness and "whiny social justice warriors". Do you mean not being a terrible person? Jesus.

all that stuff makes terrible people. hell they are violent, creating messes, attacking people, destroying property, etc.  political correctness done correctly is useful and generally just part of proper manners but recently its become a restriction on freedom of speech. hell a few years ago i got in trouble at school for mentioning nazi germany because some racist jewish kid told on me, and just because he was jewish he got away with no punishment at all (just to make it clear iv got nothing against jewish people i dont know) also in today's world everyone will now yell at you if you say anything like how you dislike the way the majority of certain races/culture act in an area (for example if i say i dislike the way most African Americans act, it's highly likely that many people will yell at me for being racist)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 24, 2017, 06:42:54 am
Lying to America isn't forward thinking.

So Trump supporters think he should not be held accountable for what he says. But the media should be chastised for reporting it.

So Trump supporters don't think he should be held accountable for ripping off thousands of Americans. ( trump university ) Being in power will make you  a better person. 

Countdown to impeachment.

187 days.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 24, 2017, 08:41:07 pm
Quote
Let's judge Trump. Not on what he has said or done, but how he does as POTUS. His executive orders, his leadership, his appointments, his deals, his words, everything after inauguration comes into play now. We are not judging Congress, just President Trump.

Well, if we're going to judge Trump, then we need to look at everything he has done since becoming President on Inauguration Day last week. The below list is by no means complete. I'm sure I've probably missed a few things.

Trump's Inaugural Speech. Same hyperbole that he gave during his entire Pres. campaign and during the debates.  :P
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/trump-inaugural-address/index.html

Trump suspends FHA mortgage rate cut.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/20/real_estate/trump-suspends-fha-premium-rate-cut/index.html

Trump puts freeze on all new or pending regulations.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/20/politics/reince-priebus-regulations-memo/index.html

Trump tells National Park Service to halt tweets of Inauguration Day crowd sizes. Really, Trump can do this? It's so beneath him.  :P
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/21/politics/trump-national-park-service-tweets/index.html?sr=fbCNN012117trump-national-park-service-tweets0718PMStoryLink&linkId=33642740

Trump says he is having "running war" with the media.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/21/media/donald-trump-war-with-the-media/index.html

Trump will not release his tax returns.  :o I was under the impression he said he would or that he "promised" he would if he became President?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/22/politics/kellyanne-conway-trump-tax-returns/index.html

What the Trump administration has done so far.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/22/politics/trump-first-days-actions/index.html

Trump to advance controversial oil pipelines. If you take a look at a map in the link below, the pipeline goes through the northeastern tip of the Standing Rock Indian reservation. Can't the pipeline route be moved just a little bit more north or northeasternly so it didn't go through the reservation? If it did that, then maybe we wouldn't have as much protests and problems that we do now.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/trump-keystone-xl-dakota-access-pipelines-executive-actions/index.html

Tracking Trump's promises.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/politics/tracking-trumps-promises/

Trump believes millions voted illegally, but doesn't provide proof.  :P
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/wh-trump-believes-millions-voted-illegally/index.html

Trump administration orders news blackout at EPA.  :o So now the WH can order the banning of freedom of speech and press? Wow.
http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/trump-admin-orders-media-blackout-at-epa

Why does Donald Trump lie?
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/opinions/why-trump-lies-dantonio-opinion/index.html

What is an Executive Order?
http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/mordecai-lee-discusses-executive-order

Donald Trump's thin skin. This speaks volumes about how DT acts.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/trump-legitimacy-voter-fraud-inauguration-crowd/index.html
Quote
Michael D'Antonio, author of a recent book "The Truth About Trump" said the President's obsessive desire for recognition was on display through his long climb to prominence as a business tycoon.
"He absolutely has done this for his entire life -- going back to childhood when he had to tell people he was the best baseball player in New York state when baseball is something they keep records on and they can prove it's not true. He was raised by a very demanding father and his father did not tolerate anything but complete victory and success in everything that Donald did."


I could go on and on, but I'll stop for the moment. Suffice to say, I don't trust Trump. He is a perpetual liar. I don't know which is worse in this country: Donald Trump himself, or the people who supported him by buying into his lies and deceit.......hook, line, and sinker.  :P

I hope that when the time comes, that Congress and/or the American people will be able to stop him and his cohorts before anything gets worse. I really do hope that Donald Trump can be impeached.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-set-impeachment-article-1.2950501
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 24, 2017, 08:44:37 pm
Quote
Countdown to impeachment.

187 days.

Not sure I understand this, Cause? Care to explain?
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 24, 2017, 11:31:06 pm
Basically it's a theory I've come up based on trumps behavior and cabinet. I don't think he will last more than 190 days in office before being impeached.

Trump is continuing to undermine America. Still claims millions voted illegally despite there being no evidence to support him.  The republican majority is complaining about it.  There is now double that other country leaders will have anything to do with him. Trust him or take him seriously.

Countdown to impeachment.

186 days.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 24, 2017, 11:44:45 pm
Basically it's a theory I've come up based on trumps behavior and cabinet. I don't think he will last more than 190 days in office before being impeached.

Trump is continuing to undermine America. Still claims millions voted illegally despite there being no evidence to support him.  The republican majority is complaining about it.  There is now double that other country leaders will have anything to do with him. Trust him or take him seriously.

Countdown to impeachment.

186 days.

The only way Trump will get impeached is if he does something constitutionally wrong. And if he did, will the Republicans and/or the Democrats have the nerve and backbone to actually go through with the impeachment proceedings or will Trump threaten them somehow and they'll be too afraid of Trump's demeanor and attitude and back down?

Can a President stop an impeachment process? I have no doubt Trump would find some way to try. ;)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 25, 2017, 04:39:13 am
well to a certain extent i do consider him intelligent/able to run this country better than hillary. i never said i care more about battling the sjw than actually having a functioning leadership

I don't understand this train of thought -- firstly, because we don't know what kind of government Hillary might have run -- and secondly, by all accounts the man hates reading (in one of the most paperwork-heavy jobs in the world!) (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-doesnt-read-much-being-president-probably-wouldnt-change-that/2016/07/17/d2ddf2bc-4932-11e6-90a8-fb84201e0645_story.html) and he spends a shockingly large amount of his time so far as president seething in front of the TV like some kind of spoilt child (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/trump-aides-cant-stop-blabbing-about-how-hes-a-madman.html). He's a narcissist who says whatever he can to get what he wants, and if he doesn't he just blows up. Like, he just threatened to send in the feds to sort out Chicago because he claims things are out of control over there. He has no filter and he can't think things through rationally.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 25, 2017, 10:52:19 am
as for the hillary thing while we dont know what exactly hillary would do, the things she said that she would do (seemed serious to me),  imo are far worse than the things trump said (which to me didnt even seem serious)

as for the paper work sometimes people do things they hate if its for a cause they believe in. i am one example of that as i hate the idea of me working/being employed by someone else (i was planing on a career in indie game development), i hate high school and would rather drop out, i hate interacting with other people offline yet im going to be selling some of my possessions to get more money, im am likely to get a "normal" job, and i am likely going to pass high school; all this because its the only way i can get to my partner. while it may take a little time till i actually start doing this stuff, its something i hate yet im going to work hard on it because it leads to something i want/"believe in" this will likely be the same for trump if thats even true.

also as for the he hates reading article i skimmed it (do understand that i skimmed it so i didnt read everything) i didnt really see anything about him hating reading, all i saw was it saying he doesnt read much which in no way means he hates reading (i dont read much, but that doesnt mean i hate reading)
as for the spending time on tv thing that site seems very sketchy to me, and doesnt seem like it is a reliable source of information. hell when loading the page i got a few resolution/loading problems so that makes it seem a little more sketchy. plus the article doesnt really have any names of who said this stuff (again i skimmed this one)
ill refuse to believe that stuff is true until video/audio evidence (or any other substantial evidence) is provided of him getting overly upset privately (since i believe the way he acts on stage is just an act)

there are tons of people (SJWs) who just want to talk bad, and make stuff up about trump. hell these same people will likely call me out for being homophobic, discriminating, white supremacist, etc. (i do believe i have actually been called out on this stuff once or several times)

and like i said awhile ago lots of the stuff is likely just talk and we are going to have to wait until we see how things actually go.

also Chicago is out of control... those people just cant stop killing each other, and someone needs to force some order there. hell with the amount of deaths there enacting martial law until these people get some education/rehab would likely be the best idea. that place is a mess and someone really needs to clean it up.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 25, 2017, 01:07:15 pm
If you like how the GOP feels about things he has done well in his first
few days. Most any GOP President would have signed most of the
exective orders Trump has so far.

Personally I feel he is shooting his self in the foot with all thes complaints
about how the election went, and crowds. Telling his press secretary to
lie, and even to complain that his man isn't being tough enough on the
press.

Now he is wanting total control over anything the government agencies he
appoints people to run.  Even to make gag orders to keep the people
working there from even posting normal information  online or to the press.

It's common for government workers to not be allowed to make political
comments, but to be told they can''t even do their job of providing data
to the public is showing Trump to be a dictator. I hope this isn't as bad
as it looks. If Trump requires them to post disinformation he will destroy
his self and those in his office.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 25, 2017, 05:00:10 pm
as for the hillary thing while we dont know what exactly hillary would do, the things she said that she would do (seemed serious to me),  imo are far worse than the things trump said (which to me didnt even seem serious)

So you thought Trump's entire hateful, xenophobic platform was a joke? But that's what the people elected him on. All of his hateful rhetoric about building walls and cutting themselves off from the rest of the world, and his straight-up lies about bringing back all those long-dead factory jobs that just aren't economically feasible.

Quote
as for the paper work sometimes people do things they hate if its for a cause they believe in. i am one example of that as i hate the idea of me working/being employed by someone else (i was planing on a career in indie game development), i hate high school and would rather drop out, i hate interacting with other people offline yet im going to be selling some of my possessions to get more money, im am likely to get a "normal" job, and i am likely going to pass high school; all this because its the only way i can get to my partner. while it may take a little time till i actually start doing this stuff, its something i hate yet im going to work hard on it because it leads to something i want/"believe in" this will likely be the same for trump if thats even true.

But you aren't the supposed leader of the free world.

Quote
also as for the he hates reading article i skimmed it (do understand that i skimmed it so i didnt read everything) i didnt really see anything about him hating reading, all i saw was it saying he doesnt read much which in no way means he hates reading (i dont read much, but that doesnt mean i hate reading)

He shows all the signs of someone who doesn't like reading. Doesn't ever want to talk about books, is never seen reading them, wants extremely detailed, sensitive reports condensed down into a couple of pages; the only things he likes to read are things about him (https://www.axios.com/trump-101-what-he-reads-and-watches-2210510272.html).

Quote
as for the spending time on tv thing that site seems very sketchy to me, and doesnt seem like it is a reliable source of information. hell when loading the page i got a few resolution/loading problems so that makes it seem a little more sketchy. plus the article doesnt really have any names of who said this stuff (again i skimmed this one)
ill refuse to believe that stuff is true until video/audio evidence (or any other substantial evidence) is provided of him getting overly upset privately (since i believe the way he acts on stage is just an act)

NY Magazine has been around for about fifty years so I doubt their website is sketchy. Web development is a pain in the rear and you have to cater for dozens of different browsers and resolutions. Sometimes even websites for well-established organisations can have some issues.

Quote
there are tons of people (SJWs) who just want to talk bad, and make stuff up about trump. hell these same people will likely call me out for being homophobic, discriminating, white supremacist, etc. (i do believe i have actually been called out on this stuff once or several times)

Is everyone who complains about Trump being a vile human being a social justice warrior?

Additionally, complaining about things like
Quote
also in today's world everyone will now yell at you if you say anything like how you dislike the way the majority of certain races/culture act in an area (for example if i say i dislike the way most African Americans act, it's highly likely that many people will yell at me for being racist)
is a surefire way to upset people, dude. That's a terrible thing to complain about. Even with using that 'most' qualifier people will see it as you generalising the behaviour of some minority group down to some racial stereotype.

Quote
and like i said awhile ago lots of the stuff is likely just talk and we are going to have to wait until we see how things actually go.

But it was the platform he ran on. It's what he said he'd do as president. You can't just pick out the things you liked about his platform whilst disregarding the rest of the stuff you don't like as 'talk' and things he's not gonna do.

Quote
also Chicago is out of control... those people just cant stop killing each other, and someone needs to force some order there. hell with the amount of deaths there enacting martial law until these people get some education/rehab would likely be the best idea. that place is a mess and someone really needs to clean it up.

Chicago didn't even have the highest murder rate in the US last year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/u-s-cities-experienced-another-big-rise-in-murder-in-2016/).

Also, he tweeted his threat out about five minutes after some statistics were aired on Bill O'Reilly. It's entirely possible that he literally watches TV, gets angry at it and then makes decisions based on what enrages him (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/donald-trump-bill-oreilly-feds-chicago-2017-1?r=US&IR=T).
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 25, 2017, 08:49:29 pm
On Facebook, I saw the following (In quotes below.) that was posted by a person who had made a comment on the CNN Facebook page. I Googled a few items and came up with the following:
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/314991-trump-team-prepares-dramatic-cuts
https://thf-reports.s3.amazonaws.com/2016/BlueprintforBalance.pdf

I am not particuarly happy that funding will be cut and/or completely removed for the following:  >:(
Corporation For Public Broadcasting
National Endowment For The Arts
National Endowment For The Humanities

I haven't been able to "fact check" a lot of the stuff yet, but if anybody wants to help, then you're welcome to. ;)

Quote
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the DOJ’s Violence Against Women programs.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Arts.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Humanities.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Minority Business Development Agency.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Economic Development Administration.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the International Trade Administration.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Legal Services Corporation.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Environmental and Natural Resources Division of the DOJ.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Overseas Private Investment Corporation.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Electricity Deliverability and Energy Reliability.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Fossil Energy.

* On January 20th, 2017, DT ordered all regulatory powers of all federal agencies frozen.

* On January 20th, 2017, DT ordered the National Parks Service to stop using social media after RTing factual, side by side photos of the crowds for the 2009 and 2017 inaugurations.

* On January 20th, 2017, roughly 230 protestors were arrested in DC and face unprecedented felony riot charges. Among them were legal observers, journalists, and medics.

* On January 20th, 2017, a member of the International Workers of the World was shot in the stomach at an anti-fascist protest in Seattle. He remains in critical condition.

* On January 21st, 2017, DT brought a group of 40 cheerleaders to a meeting with the CIA to cheer for him during a speech that consisted almost entirely of framing himself as the victim of dishonest press.

* On January 21st, 2017, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer held a press conference largely to attack the press for accurately reporting the size of attendance at the inaugural festivities, saying that the inauguration had the largest audience of any in history, “period.”

* On January 22nd, 2017, White House advisor Kellyann Conway defended Spicer’s lies as “alternative facts” on national television news.

* On January 22nd, 2017, DT appeared to blow a kiss to director James Comey during a meeting with the FBI, and then opened his arms in a gesture of strange, paternal affection, before hugging him with a pat on the back.

* On January 23rd, 2017, DT reinstated the global gag order, which defunds international organizations that even mention abortion as a medical option.

* On January 23rd, 2017, Spicer said that the US will not tolerate China’s expansion onto islands in the South China Sea, essentially threatening war with China.

* On January 23rd, 2017, DT repeated the lie that 3-5 million people voted “illegally” thus costing him the popular vote.

* On January 23rd, 2017, it was announced that the man who shot the anti-fascist protester in Seattle was released without charges, despite turning himself in.

* On January 24th, 2017, Spicer reiterated the lie that 3-5 million people voted “illegally” thus costing DT the popular vote.

* On January 24th, 2017, DT tweeted a picture from his personal Twitter account of a photo he says depicts the crowd at his inauguration and will hang in the White House press room. The photo is of the 2009 inauguration of 44th President Barack Obama, and is curiously dated January 21st, 2017, the day AFTER the inauguration and the day of the Women’s March, the largest inauguration related protest in history.

* On January 24th, 2017, the EPA was ordered to stop communicating with the public through social media or the press and to freeze all grants and contracts.

* On January 24th, 2017, the USDA was ordered to stop communicating with the public through social media or the press and to stop publishing any papers or research. All communication with the press would also have to be authorized and vetted by the White House.

* On January 24th, 2017, HR7, a bill that would prohibit federal funding not only to abortion service providers, but to any insurance coverage, including Medicaid, that provides abortion coverage, went to the floor of the House for a vote.

* On January 24th, 2017, DT ordered the resumption of construction on the Dakota Access Pipeline, while the North Dakota state congress considers a bill that would legalize hitting and killing protestors with cars if they are on roadways.

* On January 24th, 2017, it was discovered that police officers had used confiscated cell phones to search the emails and messages of the 230 demonstrators now facing felony riot charges for protesting on January 20th, including lawyers and journalists whose email accounts contain privileged information of clients and sources.

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 25, 2017, 09:13:12 pm
Trump wants to declare a presidential mandate to investigate voter fraud. In his own words.
"I can garnets you. None of the votes for me were fraudulent. Only the votes for Hillary."
Trump is a sick individual that should have never been allowed to run for office.

Now the justus department is saying no. They will not investigate without evidence. The CIA and FBI are also questioning Trumps motives. Both Dems and Reps are questioning trumps motives. Neither party wants any part of this. By now there should be news of contacts between the new president and leaders from around the world. None have been reported. Other than the continual investigation between trumps cabinet member and the Russian ambassador.

184 days till impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 25, 2017, 11:44:10 pm
So you thought Trump's entire hateful, xenophobic platform was a joke? But that's what the people elected him on. All of his hateful rhetoric about building walls and cutting themselves off from the rest of the world, and his straight-up lies about bringing back all those long-dead factory jobs that just aren't economically feasible.
i haven't really heard anything hateful/xenophobic stuff from trump. lets see the wall.. that's to stop ILLEGAL immigrants from entering America easily. i don't care what anyone else says those people are bad people since they are just skipping the line and jumping into America when other people try very hard to get here, then they start feeding off welfare without even paying taxes. deport all of them (unless they are willing to comply with the process to become a citizen, and pay taxes) those people have screwed up my life so i hope they get kicked out, and never come back unless they follow the rules everyone follows. as for the Chinese he just talks about cutting off reliance on Chinese corporations/factories.
as for the factory jobs last time i checked car manufacturing, metal working, etc. are still a thing. while we might not be getting as rich off it as the Chinese we have better environmental standards, and better working conditions.
Quote
But you aren't the supposed leader of the free world.
He shows all the signs of someone who doesn't like reading. Doesn't ever want to talk about books, is never seen reading them, wants extremely detailed, sensitive reports condensed down into a couple of pages; the only things he likes to read are things about him (https://www.axios.com/trump-101-what-he-reads-and-watches-2210510272.html).
NY Magazine has been around for about fifty years so I doubt their website is sketchy. Web development is a pain in the rear and you have to cater for dozens of different browsers and resolutions. Sometimes even websites for well-established organizations can have some issues.
wth does this have to do with anything? so what if I'm the president or just some random kid as long as i get the job done correctly, and on time does it really matter if i like doing something or not?
again i show signs of someone who doesn't like reading yet that doesn't mean i dislike reading. "extremely detailed" reports can likely be condensed into a few pages if you remove all the pointless filler words, and useless information. maybe just like me he is tired off all the irrelevant/pointless stuff in the reports and he just wants to know whats wrong, how bad is it, how long has this been going on, etc? I'm pretty sure that these reports are filled with stuff like that, because that type of writing is all they teach in school so its likely used everywhere.

somewhat understandable yet the design of the website still seems a little sketchy to me, other than that they are still missing their sources, and actual proof of such things
Quote
Is everyone who complains about Trump being a vile human being a social justice warrior? Additionally, complaining about things like
Quote
also in today's world everyone will now yell at you if you say anything like how you dislike the way the majority of certain races/culture act in an area (for example if i say i dislike the way most African Americans act, it's highly likely that many people will yell at me for being racist)
is a surefire way to upset people, dude. That's a terrible thing to complain about. Even with using that 'most' qualifier people will see it as you generalizing the behavior of some minority group down to some racial stereotype.
no not everyone who complains about trump is an SJW, hell i complain about him (I'm mostly annoyed about his dislike for environmental protection, but taking care of the environment is our responsibility... the government can help a little but i place most of the blame on civilians) and I'd like him to stop with the exaggerations.

that's why i said in a certain area. generalizing a whole race across the earth/country is improper, generalizing a race in a city is ok to me. lets see i drive into a neighborhood in Chicago and lock my doors.. there I'm "racist" because it just so happens a lot of the crime there is from African Americans. generalizing is an important thing to do since it gives you an idea how how you should act, or how careful you should be in a certain area based on your surroundings though in no way does that mean you should be disrespectful about it.

also it just so happens that stereotypes are true most of the time (or at least from my experience) hell pretty much all my experiences with African Americans within San Francisco-San Jose-LA-Oakland-Fremont are the same as those stereotypes. pretty much everyone of that skin color was sitting on the street homeless, running around swearing at each other, getting high out in public, littering/making a mess, etc. luckily i had a half African American friend years ago, seen many property acting/clothed ones (less than the others), and just have common sense that they are not all like that. but with the evidence/data iv been provided i feel its safe to assume that while not all, but most of the younger African Americans in these areas are sketchy.

is this racist? no it inst. racism is a blind hatred towards a race for their skin color/origin. i use the way people look to get an idea of how i should act, and what i should watch out for to keep my self safe. if people didn't generalize its likely there would be far more people getting killed/hurt/robbed, and possible there would be far more hate between people 
Quote
But it was the platform he ran on. It's what he said he'd do as president. You can't just pick out the things you liked about his platform whilst disregarding the rest of the stuff you don't like as 'talk' and things he's not gonna do.
Chicago didn't even have the highest murder rate in the US last year (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/u-s-cities-experienced-another-big-rise-in-murder-in-2016/).
Also, he tweeted his threat out about five minutes after some statistics were aired on Bill O'Reilly. It's entirely possible that he literally watches TV, gets angry at it and then makes decisions based on what enrages him (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/donald-trump-bill-oreilly-feds-chicago-2017-1?r=US&IR=T).
Obama said he is going to fix healthcare, did he fix it? no he screwed it up more. just because someone says something doesn't mean they are going to do it. hopefully this doesn't happen with trump, though with the way trump words stuff it sounds like a joke to me.

oh look Oakland, and San Francisco are on that list... most likely from those white business men, college students, and Asian tourist, right? diffidently not the sketchy looking people. 
though does it even matter if Chicago isn't the worst? things are still bad over there, and its a very large/old city so he should take action over there "228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings" if this is true i am heavily disappointment in humanity. just send the feds into all of those cities... see a random black guy with a unregistered gun arrest him, see them littering arrest them, vandalizing stuff? arrest them. San Francisco is a pretty nice city though I'd likely enjoy it a lot more if it was cleaned up (hell give the ones who are willing the opportunity to clean the streets), and if i didn't feel like I'm going to get robbed/attacked in certain parts of the city because I'm white.

Spoiler: show
i feel that the wall is a little exaggerated, i do believe there is going to be a wall but its likely not going to be the massive great wall of America type thing. i do not believe we will ever have a complete ban on Muslims, but i wouldn't be too against that. i do not believe all illegal immigrants will be deported, but again I'm not against the idea. i do not believe we will completely move all jobs back here, but i do believe that quite a few jobs will move back. there are lots more but iv already spend quite some time typing this.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 26, 2017, 12:25:49 am
Quote
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the DOJ’s Violence Against Women programs.
* On January 23rd, 2017, DT reinstated the global gag order, which defunds international organizations that even mention abortion as a medical option.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Arts.
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the National Endowment for the Humanities.

* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Environmental and Natural Resources Division of the DOJ.
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Electricity Deliverability and Energy Reliability.
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy.
* On January 19th, 2017, DT said that he would cut funding for the office of Fossil Energy.
* On January 24th, 2017, DT ordered the resumption of construction on the Dakota Access Pipeline, while the North Dakota state congress considers a bill that would legalize hitting and killing protestors with cars if they are on roadways.

* On January 23rd, 2017, it was announced that the man who shot the anti-fascist protester in Seattle was released without charges, despite turning himself in.

* On January 24th, 2017, DT tweeted a picture from his personal Twitter account of a photo he says depicts the crowd at his inauguration and will hang in the White House press room. The photo is of the 2009 inauguration of 44th President Barack Obama, and is curiously dated January 21st, 2017, the day AFTER the inauguration and the day of the Women’s March, the largest inauguration related protest in history.

* On January 24th, 2017, it was discovered that police officers had used confiscated cell phones to search the emails and messages of the 230 demonstrators now facing felony riot charges for protesting on January 20th, including lawyers and journalists whose email accounts contain privileged information of clients and sources.
* On January 20th, 2017, roughly 230 protestors were arrested in DC and face unprecedented felony riot charges. Among them were legal observers, journalists, and medics.

first thing bad. but do we really need a organization to stop violence against women? last time i check its our responsibility to protect each other. as for the thing for abortions its mentioned in another post on furtopia, i am all for it but at the same time i am against it in certain situations

not too sure what those two things are but they sound kinda important, and i feel its a good idea to keep them. (hopefully its just talk)

hopefully none of this stuff will happen unless trump as any other plans on how to prevent more environmental harm. though again like i said in another post its our fault if we pollute the earth more, the government cant control everything so this is our responsibility.

that report seem very sketchy, i highly doubt that and if it is true which i doubt its likely on bail.

sounds like a joke, but so what if he hangs it up. this doesnt really have any part in whats going to  happen in the country.

i have doubts that those people werent doing anything wrong. like the other one i feel that this is a fake report. but even then these people will get a trial. the cellphone thing if true is the wrong doing of the police, but i still doubt this without any proof.

(need to do something soon, so this last post is sorta thrown together quickly, and i excluded things i had no opinion on/dont know much about.)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 26, 2017, 11:32:04 am
Though much of what Trump has signed since taking office would likely have
been done by most any GOP President. His responces to crowd sizes and
voting give the appearance of a man who is living in a world of his own
making. A person who worries about what others think of him when he
should be worried about the country. A man who is trying to turn the office
into a way to get rich.

It's no wonder he hates the press, and anyone who point out the truth
about him. He seems to think he can say one thing but mean another.
This may work for a crooked campain, but not as President. People have
a right to expect the truth, and a honerable person in that office.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 26, 2017, 06:49:01 pm
Just a few things I'd like to share and/or say. ;)

The following quotes are from Facebook that somebody had posted.

Quote
"We are reliving Germany 1932. Gag order on the EPA; alternative facts; Propaganda Ministers; what a nightmare. Are his supporters still goose stepping behind this mentally disturbed fascist?"

"Seems 'Fake news' is their new Sieg Heil."

"All the people who elected this Clown should pay for the wall." <--- I actually agree with this one. If Trump and his supporters want this wall so bad, then let them pay for it out of their pockets. I sure as hell won't.




From myself:

Dissent is patriotic.

Resistence is NOT futile.


Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on January 26, 2017, 07:07:06 pm
So Trump is now silencing scientists and is in favour of horrific torture techniques coming back, such as waterboarding.

The man is a monster. At the rate he's going, the rest of the world is going to rise up to stop him.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kaiden on January 26, 2017, 07:14:04 pm
So Trump is now silencing scientists and is in favour of horrific torture techniques coming back, such as waterboarding.

The man is a monster. At the rate he's going, the rest of the world is going to rise up to stop him.

Next thing you know, he'll be trying to bring back conversion therapy and concentration camps.

Maybe not the latter, but I see him getting impeached and (hopefully) the American people will tell Russia to screw off.

*Goes back to avoiding this thread*
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 26, 2017, 07:27:38 pm
Mexico is not paying for the wall. But guess who is. ;)
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/26/news/economy/trump-mexico-tariff/index.html


What the hell is Trump's beef with climate change and/or science in general? Why does he hate science so much? Or better yet, why do Republicans hate science so much? It's not just the EPA that has had a news blackout, but I've also read of the National Park Service, the USDA, NASA, and others that have had media blackouts on their twitter accounts, Facebook pages, main websites, etc.

Is this censorship or something else? What's the real goal for all this? Making the media State-run? God forbid!  :o

We need these and other agencies to keep posting climate change and other environmental data. We, as well as other countries, need this data for weather predictions and forcasting, farming, oceanography, and so much more. Without climate change data and/or science, what are we supposed to do......guess?
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 26, 2017, 09:23:31 pm
"The press should keep their mouths shut." Great quote from anyone who doesn't want Americans to know what he's up to.
The Prez of Mexico. Not a decent man by any means. Called Trump a bully and refused to speak face to face with him.
Trump is threatening to cut state funding to any state or city that doesn't do what he says.

184 days to impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 26, 2017, 09:23:36 pm
One last note.........

Mr. Trump, please STOP with the crybaby attitude about your Inauguration crowd size.  >:( The world has heard enough about it already. Time to forget about it and move on. Your crowd size was significantly smaller than Obama's 2009 Inauguration crowd size........Period. Get used to it! Stop your whining and complaining! You lied! Spicer lied! Conway lied!  >:(

Trump 2017 Inauguration crowd size on the left. Obama 2009 Inauguration crowd size on the right. Both pics taken at the same time of about noon from the same camera angle on top of Washington Monument.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Inauguration_crowd_size_comparison_between_Trump_2017_and_Obama_2009.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 26, 2017, 10:57:54 pm
Spoiler: show
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/439/32505025866_7cf7c8a6b0_b_d.jpg)

unless that clock tower is broken that doesnt look like noon to me. from googling i read that the inauguration ended at 12:30 this clock looks like the photo was taken at  ~1:15. iv been to concerts before and those places clear out very fast at the ending so i assume the same likely goes for the inauguration.

(http://16004-presscdn-0-50.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-inauguration.jpg)
oh look people.... https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trump+inauguration&view=detailv2&&id=FF20526A7B407EB652339EE34E95D58C743822FB&selectedIndex=18&ccid=s%2brktDH%2f&simid=607996649792080105&thid=OIP.LhMB_Z7cm9iwQ-KF3B_F7gEsCt&ajaxhist=0
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/721/32546377345_83fd08bc29_z_d.jpg)
oh look... no people....

unless someone did a very nice photoshop job here https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2017/01/all-of-this-space-was-full-a-photog-2/RTSWQGG/original.jpg i feel that this is what trump means by "fake news" since everyone is pushing towards his crowd actually being that small


Edited since i was incorrect. mistook the picture for another picture bla bla bla next post of mine in this topic explains better
"All the people who elected this Clown should pay for the wall." <--- I actually agree with this one. If Trump and his supporters want this wall so bad, then let them pay for it out of their pockets. I sure as hell won't.

ok im fine with that.. though i dont want to be paying for any of that abortion, foreign aid, illegal immigrant aid, refugee aid, food stamps/welfare, domestic violence whatever (ill help out if i actually see someone getting abused. a random organization doesnt seem to help that much. same applies for every other thing, we need to take action not just talk when it comes to things like this, just throwing money at them doesnt help as much as it could)

NASA and other environmental protection services deserve my money more than those groups
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 26, 2017, 11:00:37 pm
Cite your source for your photo please, Greywolf. ;)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 26, 2017, 11:18:33 pm
just edited the post. these are screen caps i took from that higher res picture. these things came from bing so im not 100% sure (the people seem to be a little different in each picture) but these are the pictures that people have been using to say not many people went to the inauguration

also i just remembered... i would like to point out that many people blocked entrances to the inauguration, so if these pictures are incorrect its likely that maybe its due to them not getting in? though i do believe that Obama's crowd was still larger. i feel the country was more united when he became president, so of course more people would be there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdantUf5tXg i feel this should be pretty reliable since well its a video, :48 seems to be the largest crowd so i guess i am incorrect to a certain extent and you actually posted the reasonable picture. sorry about that i mistook it for the other one i posted as i havent seen that picture yet only the other one (people are just constantly going at this and im used to more exaggerations)

though why dont we just shut up about his inauguration crowd size (i mean all of us including the media) and maybe he will shut up about the crowd being larger? imo its just a stupid thing to be arguing/fighting about. why dont we pay attention to other things more so he doesnt break anything important? (not just what he says he is going to do, but what he did do)
Mexico is not paying for the wall. But guess who is. ;)
http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/26/news/economy/trump-mexico-tariff/index.html


What the hell is Trump's beef with climate change and/or science in general? Why does he hate science so much? Or better yet, why do Republicans hate science so much? It's not just the EPA that has had a news blackout, but I've also read of the National Park Service, the USDA, NASA, and others that have had media blackouts on their twitter accounts, Facebook pages, main websites, etc.

Is this censorship or something else? What's the real goal for all this? Making the media State-run? God forbid!  :o

We need these and other agencies to keep posting climate change and other environmental data. We, as well as other countries, need this data for weather predictions and forcasting, farming, oceanography, and so much more. Without climate change data and/or science, what are we supposed to do......guess?

as for this whole anti climate change thing i feel its due to all the hate between democrats and republicans. democrats have been pushing for environmental stuff so republicans push away from it out of hatred, just like how democrats push away from the whole less taxes thing, while republicans want less taxes. (my mom doesnt make that much money, yet she became 18k in debt to the IRS because the damn taxes are too high, this pretty much destroyed her life)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 27, 2017, 03:51:55 am
i haven't really heard anything hateful/xenophobic stuff from trump. lets see the wall.. that's to stop ILLEGAL immigrants from entering America easily.
Were you aware that illegal immigration in the form of people jumping the border is currently at a 40 year low (https://qz.com/894606/trumps-executive-order-to-build-a-us-mexico-border-wall-attacks-a-vanishing-issue/)? It isn't the primary source of illegals coming into your country. Other things, such as people overstaying their visas, are far more widespread forms of illegal immigration which his wall will be entirely ineffectual against.

So what does the wall do, other than stand as a monolithic symbol of hatred, xenophobia and soon-to-be-eroding relations with one of the US's biggest trade partners? It's going to cost billions, and whilst I'm not sure if you pay tax, there are a lot of people who do and pay a lot of it. And their money will be going to this complete and utter waste of resources and time, rather than ventures that are actually worthwhile such as improving infrastructure or funding things like health care. Because why would Mexico ever pay for it? The only people it will impact are the consumers in the US, since Mexico will simply court China because they'll be able to get a far more competitive trade agreement out of them than this isolationist Trump government that's looking out to penalise other countries for entirely made up reasons.

In my opinion, even just supporting the notion of such a hateful thing is reprehensible, and I find it ludicrous that people would actually want it built considering how little it will do toward achieving its supposed goal. Your own mileage, however, may vary. 

Quote
those people have screwed up my life

How? What have they done to you?

Quote
as for the factory jobs last time i checked car manufacturing, metal working, etc. are still a thing. while we might not be getting as rich off it as the Chinese we have better environmental standards, and better working conditions.

They'll simply be automated. They won't be able to compete otherwise. The many tens of thousands of uneducated people without transferrable skills won't be able to find work in a highly automated factory.

Quote
wth does this have to do with anything?

You don't think the leader of your country should be passionate about his job and not hate his line of work?

I think I'm just gonna end this post there because I don't really want to get angry responding to the whole race thing you posted about below that. I'll just say that I fundamentally disagree with it.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 27, 2017, 11:04:53 am
well i my self am not that much for the wall. increased surveillance should do the trick. as for the people overstaying their visa, well thats what the whole go after them and deport them thing is for. but hell the wall being built will open up lots of jobs (tho i do agree infrastructure is a better choice of funding but from what iv heard trump is going after that too) i still dont feel that a wall is hateful/xenophobic though (i can understand how some people can view it that way, but to me its just a wall) as for if i pay taxes im not paying them yet, and i dont even know how to pay them for when i start working (my school cut out those classes several years ago)

as for how they screwed up my life: if it werent for all this illegal immigration stuff its likely that our government/customs officers would be a little less suspicious of everyone and immigration might be a little easier. several months ago my partner got denied entry into the US and i do feel that maybe all this stuff about protecting America from illegal immigrants heavily influenced this (though i hear the 9/11 attacks also had a large effect here) America may be the one at fault here because they are the ones being very inefficient but the original cause of the problem likely came from illegal immigrants and terrorist.

Quote
They'll simply be automated. They won't be able to compete otherwise. The many tens of thousands of uneducated people without transferrable skills won't be able to find work in a highly automated factory.
automated jobs create more jobs for people with engineering skills. there will likely be a lack of man power in those careers which will likely lead to on the job training becoming more of a thing so those who are "unskilled"/"uneducated" will learn how to work there. also automated factories still have tons of people working in them (been in Tesla's factory tons of robots but tons of people too)
also again we got better environment protection and working conditions in our factories. that's less pollution per resource/item produced, and less abused workers.

i dont really care if someone hates their job or not, as long as they get the job done on time, and correctly, and as long as its something they arent being forced to do and they are making it their decision to work even if they hate it im fine with it.

as for the race thing its simple observations that i am pointing out, i never chose to see the majority of them like that, and i wish i didnt see them like this. though i do feel its a good idea to avoid this topic because as i said before "political correctness" has made this a "horrible thing" to talk about even though there are some real issues here, and we end up just disagreeing with observations because those observations happen to point out a fact someone doesn't like. 
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 27, 2017, 12:04:01 pm
Who's paying for the US/Mexico border wall?

Mexico
Mexic
Mexi
Mex

Me  :(     The citizens of the U.S. will be footing the bill on this one.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/27/opinions/taxing-mexico-is-completely-illegal-alford-opinion/index.html

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 27, 2017, 12:25:00 pm
Trump has always reminded me of a coffee shop politician. I think most of us
know the type. He sits there telling everyone how things would be if he was
president. Only thing is he probably knows nothing about government, and
is trying to use common sense to fix the problems of the world.

Problem is nothing is simple these days. Too many people are involved with
decisions that have to be made. It takes dozens of people hours, weeks, months
or even years to work out treaties, and agreements.

In the distant past some leaders used wars to settle problems with their neighbors,
but now we can destroy life on the planet with war. So we must try to use deplomacy
to solve world problems. Even those within the country often require compromise with
many people trying to keep things fair, and equitable. 

I am beginning to wonder if Trump really believes the things he claims as true.  If he
really does we could be in the hands of someone who is mentally ill. It's not impossible
as some people with mental illnesses can be normal most of the time. If he is we can
only hope those around him can keep him under control. Only thing Trump could fire
those that are trying to help him. In his mind he might think they are against him.

Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 27, 2017, 06:20:00 pm
Trump continuing his undermining of the media. Call them "the opposition". Yet he continues to favor Fox new network. A known hot bed of propaganda and false information.

Trump being told by both dems and reps that dropping the sanctions against Russia is a bad idea. Even talk about making these sanctions law to keep them in place.

Trump had decided to have privet conversations with Mexico.

182 days to impeachment.
I skipped a day in my last post.


Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on January 27, 2017, 06:28:33 pm
False information, cause? I think you mean "alternative facts" :p
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 27, 2017, 10:28:51 pm
Today, Trump decreed and made Executive Orders that no Muslim refugees would be coming to the U.S. from Syria, Irag, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, and a few other countries. Also he said that priority would be given to Christian refugees to allow them to come to the U.S.  :o

There's a few problems with Trump's anti-Muslim immigration policies.  >:(

1. He wants tighter vetting processes for checking on Muslims who come to the U.S.. Problem with this is that it is somewhat difficult to check on the backgrounds of people from the Middle East and/or other countries as the countries may or may not have the technology and Government/Police resources to properly check on people and then pass along that information to U.S. authorities. Some countries aren't as "advanced" as we are when it comes to computer information technology, Police forces, etc., etc.

2. Trump is giving priority to Christian refugees? One of the reasons why and how America was formed was on the principle of Freedom of Religion. People from any nationality with any religious faith should be able to come here. Since when did we start practicing religious discrimination? Oh yeah, that's right. When Trump became President.  :P

3. By placing a ban on any Muslims from coming to the U.S., you are pretty much making a blanket ban and stereotyping ALL Muslims as bad and/or terrorists. Hasn't it already been said time after time after time by various people and organizations that not all Muslims are bad/terrorists? Only a very tiny percentage may be radical. The other 90% or so are just plain hard working people trying to make a decent living as best they can and going about their daily lives. Which of the Muslims in the below pic are radical terrorists?

(https://cdn5.wn.com/o25/ph/img/a5/93/673fd65af04e2e37a001957b8e13-grande.jpg)

Answer: None of them. You can't automatically say all Muslims are radical, bad, terrorists until you either get to know them and/or view their actions.



Trump's vetting and immigration policies on Muslim people and Middle Eastern countries are just going to make matters worse, not better. It's going to inflame the Muslim people into more anti-US rhetoric, more anti-US violence, and especially incite ISIS and Al-Queda to make more terror threats.

Hurting people's feelings is one thing. But when those same people come back and hurt us, then it's taking things too far. The following is an example of why Trump's Muslim rhetoric will not work, and why he is playing right into ISIS's hands. His Muslim rhetoric is actually escalating and hurting the Muslim situation and putting the national security of the United States at risk.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/opinions/trump-isis/index.html
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 27, 2017, 11:41:45 pm
On a side note. Trump is still using an unsecured cell phone. AND his staff are all using privet email servers. Can you say "Jail them all".
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 28, 2017, 12:33:40 am
Today, Trump decreed and made Executive Orders that no Muslim refugees would be coming to the U.S. from Syria, Irag, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, and a few other countries. Also he said that priority would be given to Christian refugees to allow them to come to the U.S.  :o
2. Trump is giving priority to Christian refugees?

happy to hear we will be getting less refugees, though the christian refugees part i still dont like. stop coming to this country and fix your own.

i dislike that idea, but as long as it means less refugees then go ahead. does kinda hurt my opinion on trump a little, at least its moving a little in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 28, 2017, 01:26:34 am
Considering how much some of you hate him, I added a new option to the poll
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Holt5 on January 28, 2017, 10:07:54 am
I'm still on the fence about Trump. I like some of what he's done already and dislike some of it too. I'm waiting more than a couple weeks to make any judgments. I remember some people who were telling the right-wingers to calm down when Obama got into office - you know, because he was going to start a New World Order, take all our guns, and assign us all bar-codes for our foreheads - same principle applies here. The world is not ending (yet) and you're probably going to live to see the end of Trump's presidency like most of the people who survived Obama's.  :D Aside from George Washington, I don't think there were any subsequent elections in which the fate of the country was considered to be at stake.

That said, it's just that kind of passion that each political side exerts every 4 years that helps to keep our country alert and ready to push ourselves to be our best and/or our worst selves. You might not like Trump or Obama, but you probably would not become better, both as a person and as a nation, without people you apparently despise provoking you to improve, or to fail while trying.

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 28, 2017, 11:59:00 am
Trump claimed the pipe for the pipelines is to be made in the USA. Well the pipe
is sitting in North Dakoda already. Made in Russia, and India. This pipline is
for a canadian oil company. They are taking peoples land, because our
government said they could.

In this case Trump may really be wanting US made pipe, but apparently
except during wartime he can't tall a private industry where to buy the
products they use. Pipe in this case.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26/trumps-plan-to-force-pipeline-makers-to-use-us-steel-is-dictatorial-and-a-bad-idea.html (http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/26/trumps-plan-to-force-pipeline-makers-to-use-us-steel-is-dictatorial-and-a-bad-idea.html)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 28, 2017, 12:15:49 pm

Well the pipe is sitting in North Dakoda already. Made in Russia, and India.

In this case Trump may really be wanting US made pipe, but apparently
except during wartime he can't tall a private industry where to buy the
products they use. Pipe in this case.

the pipe was already bought/manufactured so no point in just trashing it for a US made pipe.

as for the US pipe manufactures i have to agree with trump on his want to force them to buy US steel, and i feel that it would be a good law to force companies to buy common/plentiful materials only in the US (Testla's purchase of lithium from russia is understandable since unlike iron, and carbon lithium is alot more difficult to find)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 28, 2017, 05:14:32 pm
A green and white furred husky in a suit and tie sits at a desk, camera flashes and clicks going off all around him. He begins to scribble something in a binder with the flick of a pen. He then finishes and begins to address the crowd of assembled reporters and furry lawmakers.

"What I have just done now is to sign an Executive Order to deport all Pro-Trump supporters, Trump's Cabinet, and even Trump himself, from the United States of America. This Executive Order also bans any Pro-Trump supporters from entering the United States from another country. These new immigration measures will make America a safer and more secure nation for all Americans." :D
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kaiden on January 28, 2017, 06:10:57 pm
We get it Kobuk, you hate the guy.

But there are people out there that may like him as a president, I'm glad he stood up to China and Germany, does that mean I love the man and support him? Not really, but hating on him on a furry forum isn't going to do anything to put a dent in his political career.

That's why you've got to try and help impeach him, or non-violently protest, try and push for political change in the proper way, if you can.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 28, 2017, 07:01:01 pm
Quote
But there are people out there that may like him as a president,

And the only reason some people like him is because they blindly believed all the propoganda and whitewash lying coming out of DT's mouth. Like lambs to the slaughter.  :P What will it take to get Trump supporters to wake up and see that the person they elected is not who they thought he was?

Quote
That's why you've got to try and help impeach him,

As much as I and/or others would hopefully like to see DT impeached, I can't help but wonder if that might be impossible or not at all.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-set-impeachment-article-1.2950501
One of the major problems is that both the House and Senate are controlled by Republicans. A lot of them originally endorsed Trump for President during his campaign. They might be scared to try and impeach him in any way for fear of what he may do. And whatever "evidence" might be collected and brought forth to use against Trump during an impeachment, I'm willing to bet the Republicans and/or Trump will ignore it and/or say it was all fabricated and a big lie put forth by the Democrats to discredit Trump.
Already there is discussion and investigations, especially by the Democrats, of trying to impeach Trump. But for all the good it will do, I feel it will fall on deaf ears.  :(
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Holt5 on January 28, 2017, 08:02:49 pm
Perhaps] this is why some of us have warned about the dangers of an over-powered government?  x_x
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 28, 2017, 10:35:51 pm
Kobuk, I don't look at rhetoric. I look at action. And I like what I see so far

Only guy I would have voted for over Trump was Cruz. I'm beginning to wonder if Trump might be better than he would have been. Time, and his actions, will tell.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 28, 2017, 10:47:31 pm
Federal Judge blocks part of Donald Trump's immigration ban.  :D

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/2-iraqis-file-lawsuit-after-being-detained-in-ny-due-to-travel-ban/index.html

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/01/28/darweesh.v.trump_decision.and.order.document-3.pdf

Quote
A federal judge granted an emergency stay Saturday night for citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries who have already arrived in the US and those who are in transit, and who hold valid visas, ruling they can legally enter the US -- a decision that halts President Donald Trump's executive order barring citizens from those countries from entering the US for the next 90 days.

It may only be a partial victory, but it is a victory nonetheless.  :D  Though I strongly suspect that Trump, his Cabinet, and/or some Republicans will find a way to overturn this. And Trump? He'll go on the attack like he usually does and cry foul and throw a temper tantrum saying how people are against him. Oh boo hoo. Cry me a river.  :P
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 29, 2017, 02:53:15 am
Considering how much some of you hate him, I added a new option to the poll

lol, I think anyone selecting that option would end up on some kind of list.

well i my self am not that much for the wall. increased surveillance should do the trick. as for the people overstaying their visa, well thats what the whole go after them and deport them thing is for. but hell the wall being built will open up lots of jobs (tho i do agree infrastructure is a better choice of funding but from what iv heard trump is going after that too) i still dont feel that a wall is hateful/xenophobic though (i can understand how some people can view it that way, but to me its just a wall) as for if i pay taxes im not paying them yet, and i dont even know how to pay them for when i start working (my school cut out those classes several years ago)

But his whole thing about building the wall was "Mexico is sending over their rapists and murderers and other criminals, so I'm gonna build a wall and make them pay for it." How is that not xenophobic?

Quote
automated jobs create more jobs for people with engineering skills. there will likely be a lack of man power in those careers which will likely lead to on the job training becoming more of a thing so those who are "unskilled"/"uneducated" will learn how to work there. also automated factories still have tons of people working in them (been in Tesla's factory tons of robots but tons of people too)
also again we got better environment protection and working conditions in our factories. that's less pollution per resource/item produced, and less abused workers.

So let's say these people get enough on the job training to become proficient mechatronic/robotic engineers (not likely, since you'd need do a lot of mathematics for that kind of stuff -- believe me, I studied a related area and had to do a four year engineering degree full of mathematics, electronics and computer science). How many jobs would that provide? What of the people who can't get a job because there's simply no more demand? What do they do?

Quote
i dont really care if someone hates their job or not, as long as they get the job done on time, and correctly, and as long as its something they arent being forced to do and they are making it their decision to work even if they hate it im fine with it.

But how is someone going to do their best if they hate their job? You can't expect them to do their best if they feel trapped by their position or if they don't feel like they want to do it.

Quote
as for the race thing its simple observations that i am pointing out, i never chose to see the majority of them like that, and i wish i didnt see them like this. though i do feel its a good idea to avoid this topic because as i said before "political correctness" has made this a "horrible thing" to talk about even though there are some real issues here, and we end up just disagreeing with observations because those observations happen to point out a fact someone doesn't like.

Do you know why those black people might act like that?

Today, Trump decreed and made Executive Orders that no Muslim refugees would be coming to the U.S. from Syria, Irag, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, and a few other countries. Also he said that priority would be given to Christian refugees to allow them to come to the U.S.  :o
2. Trump is giving priority to Christian refugees?

happy to hear we will be getting less refugees, though the christian refugees part i still dont like. stop coming to this country and fix your own.

i dislike that idea, but as long as it means less refugees then go ahead. does kinda hurt my opinion on trump a little, at least its moving a little in the right direction.

You want a bunch of farmers and people from undeveloped towns and cities overrun by a hostile group to go back and fight the superior force that ran them out? How could you reasonably expect those people to go back where they will almost certainly die?

I'm still on the fence about Trump. I like some of what he's done already and dislike some of it too. I'm waiting more than a couple weeks to make any judgments. I remember some people who were telling the right-wingers to calm down when Obama got into office - you know, because he was going to start a New World Order, take all our guns, and assign us all bar-codes for our foreheads - same principle applies here. The world is not ending (yet) and you're probably going to live to see the end of Trump's presidency like most of the people who survived Obama's.  :D Aside from George Washington, I don't think there were any subsequent elections in which the fate of the country was considered to be at stake.

That said, it's just that kind of passion that each political side exerts every 4 years that helps to keep our country alert and ready to push ourselves to be our best and/or our worst selves. You might not like Trump or Obama, but you probably would not become better, both as a person and as a nation, without people you apparently despise provoking you to improve, or to fail while trying.

Obama didn't admit to sexually assaulting women on tape and he wasn't associating himself with disgusting neo-nazis like Bannon. Just to name a couple of things.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 29, 2017, 10:11:22 am
"What I have just done now is to sign an Executive Order to deport all Pro-Trump supporters, Trump's Cabinet, and even Trump himself, from the United States of America. This Executive Order also bans any Pro-Trump supporters from entering the United States from another country. These new immigration measures will make America a safer and more secure nation for all Americans." :D
And the only reason some people like him is because they blindly believed all the propoganda and whitewash lying coming out of DT's mouth. Like lambs to the slaughter.  :P What will it take to get Trump supporters to wake up and see that the person they elected is not who they thought he was?
last time i checked im a very friendly, and helpful person so i guess there would just be one less of those types of people in the US...
ya im not really following any propaganda, and im all for trump. all my opinions are mostly based on things iv seen/experienced in person. my conclusion: this world is a disgusting place but does have potential if someone will just clean it up.

-----But his whole thing about building the wall was "Mexico is sending over their rapists and murderers and other criminals, so I'm gonna build a wall and make them pay for it." How is that not xenophobic?
"mexico is sending over their rapist and murderers... so im gonna build a wall..." ya i dont see anything xenophobic about building a wall stopping criminals from entering the country. is having a wall around a prison xenophobic? the harder it is to get drugs in here the better. hell my family actually got mixed up with all the drug stuff since my mom was being manipulated by some guy who had drug dealer connections (my family did nothing illegal though we had to call the cops several times, and were getting stuff stolen)
----- So let's say these people get enough on the job training to become proficient mechatronic/robotic engineers (not likely, since you'd need do a lot of mathematics for that kind of stuff -- believe me, I studied a related area and had to do a four year engineering degree full of mathematics, electronics and computer science). How many jobs would that provide? What of the people who can't get a job because there's simply no more demand? What do they do?
well lets see all the people with engineering degrees get a job, not enough so there is more demand for the job, more demand likely equals higher wages, higher wages equals more worthy to take college classes to learn that stuff, more people take college classes leading to less unemployed people(this alone will open up many jobs) also there are many jobs with robots that do not require that knowledge. you got the mechanics who just need to take care of the machine's physical body with at most involves removing broken chips and replacing them. then you got welders who either construct the robot or assist the robots by tick welding parts before allowing the robot to take over.
if we get the metal foundries, car factories, and just general production back over here im guessing there will be lots of jobs (i do not know the exact number as i do not work in any of those places), hell just one section of the tesla factory had maybe 200-300 people but there were many more around the facility. 
there will be tons of demand for many jobs, once that runs out that likely means that unemployment rates dropped alot already, and that it's self is an achievement. we are going to need to find a way to get those other people jobs though.
-----But how is someone going to do their best if they hate their job? You can't expect them to do their best if they feel trapped by their position or if they don't feel like they want to do it.
you dont need to love your job to be good at it. again im an example of this, i am likely going to hate my job once i get one but im still going to work hard at it because its for something i believe in. hell even right now i am still kinda trying my best just this stuff is difficult since i have been pretty much deprived of everything my whole life.
-----Do you know why those black people might act like that?
i dont really care much about why they act that way, all i care about is that they dont act that way. so what you have a horrible life stop complaining about it and just fix it. do not start littering, wasting money on alcohol, wasting money on overly expensive shoes, attacking people, yelling random stuff, wear improper clothing, and rely only on welfare because you are too lazy to save up that money and get a job.
hell my whole life has been hell, dealing with my parent's divorce/fighting around the ages of 9-16, being friendless ~10-15, drug dealer/crazy people theft/threats 14-17 (even having someone killed outside my house, luckily i wasnt home but that just isnt a nice thought), have had maybe around maybe 10 pets die (picking up the old/abandoned ones no one wants, it starts to wear you down but its worth it to give them better lives) and then leading to now where im pretty much being left on my own having to rely on my self now as my dad doesn't seem willing to help me with the process of getting a job, bringing my dog to the vet, or selling my old possessions to free up space, and make a little extra money. then you also got the stuff where iv been struggling with high school since my second year, iv considered my self as being gay since around 14-15, my partner being stuck in another country/being denied entry into the US, and just the issues iv been having in my more personal life.
I dont care what they went through because that gives you no excuse to act that way, hell iv likely been through worse than some of them yet here i am just wanting to be happy at no expense of others, for things to be as peaceful as possible, for us to stop destroying the environment, for science, engineering, and just our general understanding of our reality to progress at amazing speeds, etc. bad things happening to you gives you no right to do bad things to others.
-----You want a bunch of farmers and people from undeveloped towns and cities overrun by a hostile group to go back and fight the superior force that ran them out? How could you reasonably expect those people to go back where they will almost certainly die?
fight alongside russian airstrikes/Turkish soldiers im pretty sure they would be happy to have more soldiers to mow down ISIS. pretty sure its a lot easier to walk north several miles, than to go to Europe/Americas/Australia. i expect some bravery on their part, and working together to retake their homeland, not just running away to another country avoiding the problems that they allowed to form/grow. they let these issues grow so they are the ones who should clean up that area.
as for Mexicans well there aren't any heavily armed forces in Mexico, the worse they got is the cartel but i doubt that they even have a single tank. Mexico seems like an easy place to fix, it just requires hard work, and again they let the problems grow to being as bad as they are.
possible plan to live in mexico if i lived there with minimal money:
Spoiler: show

-work together with other people to purchase a moderate piece of rural land if thats even necessary in Mexico
-set up water collecting/purification systems, plus food production (this stuff can be made from garbage you find all over the place, not luxurious but you can survive in a moderate quality living condition) (you can lean this stuff on the internet and i highly doubt there arent public computers in the cities)
-build shelters out of stuff you find, and hell even the ground (pretty sure there is lots of clay there)
---^^^^ after this they should at least be able to survive without starving/being dehydrated ^^^^---
-earn enough money in simple jobs to get an education which they can work for higher paying jobs allowing you to improve your homes/property
-maybe even work in America and send money back though leave once your visa expires.
-continue to work up from here, you already got a moderate life quality at this point.

but really its this simple, my family grew some food years ago and those few plants were enough to give me a snack every few days, i could likely get a meal from them if we actually had a proper garden. i also made some assumptions that their situation is worse than i actually believe it is (im pretty sure water/food isnt a very scarce resource over there) learn to live off the land until you can have a stable/working economy like people did just about two hundred years ago.


sorry if this post is a little harder to read with the quote boxes missing, trying to make it fit more into other people's monitors so they dont need to keep scrolling, and just would like the post to be less large/taking up lots of space.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 29, 2017, 11:37:44 am
I think it's interesting that the GOP complained constantly
because Obama was signing executive orders. Saying he
was acting like a king.  Trump has been signing them daily,
and they are so happy with him. Where has their complaints
gone now that Trump is acting like a King?


I hope all this business with a man like Trump shows how
important voting is. To not only listen to television ads or
the flyers the canidates fill your mail box with.

Take the time to study their record. People generally don't change
that much.  If they lie on purpose you will never know where they
stand on anything. Don't vote for them.

If you have to make excuses to your friends  why your man is good.
It's time to dig into his/her record.

Then if your right you won't need to make excuses for your canidate.
You can show them the facts.

It's better to have a honest canidate that you don't really agree
with than one you can't trust at all.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 29, 2017, 11:43:39 am
Considering how much some of you hate him, I added a new option to the poll

lol, I think anyone selecting that option would end up on some kind of list.

Most likely "Enemies of the State" list. I don't think adding that poll option was such a good idea and I see nothing funny about it. Granted, I as well as others may not like Trump, but I wouldn't want to see him killed. Talking about killing/assasinating Trump, either jokingly or literally will get you and/or others into hot water. The Secret Service, Homeland Security, FBI, and other agencies take such threats against the President very, very seriously. They check EVERY threat. I would strongly advise, Rocco, that you remove or change that poll option. Or I would suggest the Mods and Admins remove that poll option.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on January 29, 2017, 12:44:43 pm
And they have a boat load of threats from all over the country. I don't think they have time to care about a guy who openly supports and proclaims how he voted for Trump adding an option to his poll when they have people calling in threats. And IDC what lists I'm on, I know I'm already on some. Big deal.
I've seen very vile attacks against him (in the news. I haven't been paying much attention to this thread, only skimming in case anything catches my eye). I was curious if anyone would pick that choice. I added it not as a joke, but because I was seriously wondering if anyone here hated him that much. However, since 1 no one picked it and 2 you seems so panicked about it, I am removing it
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 29, 2017, 01:18:28 pm
And of course, Trump's immigration ban just gets worse. Now him and his staff are talking about making people disclose information on their smartphones to authorities.  :o  >:( This to me is an invasion of privacy. How would you like it if every time you left the US or came back into the US, you had to show what was on your cellphone and what you posted on social media? I wouldn't like it one bit. What I do with my life and what I do on social media is my business! Not Trump's! He's using this as an excuse to ban more people who do not like him and/or his policies. The guy is paranoid. He can't stand anybody and anything that doesn't like or agree with him, so he has to make up all these stupid immigration policies.
And there's no way authorities could vet the contents on someone's cellphone. All somebody has to do is delete whatever content is on their phone and the authorities can't do a thing about it.  :D
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/donald-trump-immigrant-policy-social-media-contacts/index.html



http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/foreign-visitors-may-have-to-hand-over-social-media-records
Quote
......sources tell CNN that White House policy director Stephen Miller spoke with officials of the State Department, Customs and Border Patrol, Department of Homeland Security and others to tell them that the President is deeply committed to the executive order and the public is firmly behind it <--- Really? How much of the public is really behind this? I'm not. This needs fact checking. Another lie put out by Trump.-- urging them not to get distracted by what he described as hysterical voices on TV. <--- Trump trying to make the media, protesters, and any other opposition look bad and liars again.  :P

Quote
Miller praised the State Department on Saturday, sources tell CNN, but argued that the government needs to do better job of making sure the people who come into the US embrace American values. <--- Embrace? Sounds more like "force" people to embrace American values.  >:( You can't force people to do what you want them to. That might happen in North Korea. But I sure as hell hope it never happens here.  >:(
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 29, 2017, 10:09:38 pm
Trump has started his religious ban. Instead of going threw legal channels he put out a mandate. Courts are already declaring it unconstitutional. Trumps cabinet members continue to talk gibberish and not answer questions.  Extreme left is continuing to deny or disregard protests. More reps are stating their disapproval of Trumps actions.

180 days to impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 29, 2017, 10:25:36 pm
Not sure how accurate this is, but I found it to be a bit funny and ironic at the same time.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-screens-finding-dory-immigration-ban-chaos-article-1.2958932?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nydnrss%2Fblogs%2Ftouchingbase+(Blogs%2FTouching+Base)

 
Quote
President Trump screened “Finding Dory,” an animated film about a fish’s journey to reunite with her parents, Sunday afternoon, according to a presidential schedule shared with the press.

Trump, his family and other White House staffers enjoyed the uplifting Disney-Pixar flick featuring a happy ending for the fictional family of fish in the White House Family Theater.

At the same time, protests erupted across the country to oppose the President’s new executive order on immigration that blocks entry to the U.S. for citizens of seven predominantly Muslim nations. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey, which are also majority Muslim and where Trump has business dealings, are not included. <---  >:(  >:(  >:(

The irony of Trump’s choice of movie did not go unnoticed.

“Trump is screening ‘Finding Dory’ today: the story of a foreigner entering the U.S. without authorization to reunite with herparents #irony,” the Deputy Secretary of Labor, Chris Lu, wrote on Twitter.

“For me, America is great because of all the people who came here. Not in spite of them. #NoBan.” She posted a second time to add, “P.S. My grandparents were immigrants. The woman making us pizza right now is Muslim. And I’m grateful for all of them. #NoBan.”

Truly pathetic, Mr. Trump.  :P Protests are taking place. Muslims are separated from one another and can't get into the country. And here you are watching a children's cartoon.  :P You are one sick bastard.  >:(



Quote from Lord of the Rings movie:  Gandalf to Saruman - "Tell me, friend, when did Saruman the Wise (Trump  :D ) abandon reason for madness?"
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 30, 2017, 04:05:31 am
-----But his whole thing about building the wall was "Mexico is sending over their rapists and murderers and other criminals, so I'm gonna build a wall and make them pay for it." How is that not xenophobic?
"mexico is sending over their rapist and murderers... so im gonna build a wall..." ya i dont see anything xenophobic about building a wall stopping criminals from entering the country. is having a wall around a prison xenophobic? the harder it is to get drugs in here the better. hell my family actually got mixed up with all the drug stuff since my mom was being manipulated by some guy who had drug dealer connections (my family did nothing illegal though we had to call the cops several times, and were getting stuff stolen)

But whatever happened to your mother is irrelevant to what Trump is saying and whether it is xenophobic. He's accusing Mexico of sending over criminals so America has to deal with them (a completely baseless accusation) and using that as justification for building his wall. He's accusing a country of consciously sending the worst elements of their society over to another country in order to stir up hatred and fear of the country being accused. That's textbook xenophobia.

Quote
we are going to need to find a way to get those other people jobs though.

Glad that we can agree that even the most optimistic outlook on that particular idea doesn't cut it.

Quote
you dont need to love your job to be good at it. again im an example of this, i am likely going to hate my job once i get one but im still going to work hard at it because its for something i believe in. hell even right now i am still kinda trying my best just this stuff is difficult since i have been pretty much deprived of everything my whole life.

So you don't care if your president is passionate about representing your country in the best way possible? You just want him to grind out his four (let's be realistic here, he won't get another term) years, no matter if he hates himself and the populace he serves?

Quote
i dont really care much about why they act that way, all i care about is that they dont act that way. so what you have a horrible life stop complaining about it and just fix it. do not start littering, wasting money on alcohol, wasting money on overly expensive shoes, attacking people, yelling random stuff, wear improper clothing, and rely only on welfare because you are too lazy to save up that money and get a job.
hell my whole life has been hell, dealing with my parent's divorce/fighting around the ages of 9-16, being friendless ~10-15, drug dealer/crazy people theft/threats 14-17 (even having someone killed outside my house, luckily i wasnt home but that just isnt a nice thought), have had maybe around maybe 10 pets die (picking up the old/abandoned ones no one wants, it starts to wear you down but its worth it to give them better lives) and then leading to now where im pretty much being left on my own having to rely on my self now as my dad doesn't seem willing to help me with the process of getting a job, bringing my dog to the vet, or selling my old possessions to free up space, and make a little extra money. then you also got the stuff where iv been struggling with high school since my second year, iv considered my self as being gay since around 14-15, my partner being stuck in another country/being denied entry into the US, and just the issues iv been having in my more personal life.
I dont care what they went through because that gives you no excuse to act that way, hell iv likely been through worse than some of them yet here i am just wanting to be happy at no expense of others, for things to be as peaceful as possible, for us to stop destroying the environment, for science, engineering, and just our general understanding of our reality to progress at amazing speeds, etc. bad things happening to you gives you no right to do bad things to others.

If you aren't interested in understanding their circumstances at least a bit how can you be justified in talking down to them like that? What if someone did it to you?

Quote
-----You want a bunch of farmers and people from undeveloped towns and cities overrun by a hostile group to go back and fight the superior force that ran them out? How could you reasonably expect those people to go back where they will almost certainly die?
fight alongside russian airstrikes/Turkish soldiers im pretty sure they would be happy to have more soldiers to mow down ISIS. pretty sure its a lot easier to walk north several miles, than to go to Europe/Americas/Australia. i expect some bravery on their part, and working together to retake their homeland, not just running away to another country avoiding the problems that they allowed to form/grow. they let these issues grow so they are the ones who should clean up that area.

That's victim blaming, dude. Not on. Also, I'd prefer if you didn't bring my country into it.

The people fleeing ISIS and other extremist groups aren't all just able-bodied men. There's women, children and the elderly there too. And even if there was only able-bodied men, so what? To demand that they go back there and fight a group of violent religious zealots rather than seeking somewhere safe where they don't have to fear being brutally killed is terrible. Are you going to show the same courage you so flippantly demand of them and lead them onto the battlefield?
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 30, 2017, 07:25:03 am
-----But whatever happened to your mother is irrelevant to what Trump is saying and whether it is xenophobic. He's accusing Mexico of sending over criminals so America has to deal with them (a completely baseless accusation) and using that as justification for building his wall. He's accusing a country of consciously sending the worst elements of their society over to another country in order to stir up hatred and fear of the country being accused. That's textbook xenophobia.
what happened to my mother is relevant to the Mexican dealer connections the other guy had, and if we had a stronger border that guy might have never even gotten involved in drugs meaning we would have never been getting treats/things stolen; so yes what happened to my mom is relevant to all the stuff with Mexican criminals coming into the US. when he says Mexico is sending over criminals i dont think he means they are intentionally "sending" over criminals but that many criminals are coming from Mexico there for a wall between us and a place where many criminals are coming from is going to make there be less criminals.

also there is the thing where if you over stay your visa, or if you come into the US without permission you are a criminal so ya... every illegal immigrant is a criminal so trump is pretty correct... building a wall is not xenophobic, its criminalphobic....
-----So you don't care if your president is passionate about representing your country in the best way possible? You just want him to grind out his four (let's be realistic here, he won't get another term) years, no matter if he hates himself and the populace he serves?
i'd prefer that he is happy for what he is doing, but to tell the truth i really dont care as long as it works, and its his own decision to do something he hates to make the country better. hell if someone hates everything but solves many problems i dont care, it works and thats what matters.
-----If you aren't interested in understanding their circumstances at least a bit how can you be justified in talking down to them like that? What if someone did it to you?
because i dont care how bad someone's situation is, not matter what, you do not harm (injury/theft) another human unless its in direct self defense, or defense of your own property. Also no one is doing anything to African Americans, they are doing this stuff to them selves. no one is forcing them to wear sketchy clothing, no one is forcing them to buy expensive shoes, yelling random stuff, getting high/drunk out in public, etc. being homeless/unemployed is understandable since there are a few racist people (though being in the bay area there are barely any, so racism isnt a good excuse) but all this other stuff is their own decision.
and again i dont care what someone does to me that doesnt give me the right to disturb other people, make a mess of my city, waste my money and complain that i need more, harm someone else, etc. if i was ever in their situation i'd wear clothing that actually keeps me warm/allows me to do stuff easier/doesnt make me look sketchy, save up my welfare money and spend it on things that will be useful in my survival (canteen, warm jacket/pants, good quality backpack, healthy food, etc.), put my garbage where it belongs, use public restrooms (the streets in San Francisco smell horrible), not be a disturbance to other people, spend my time keeping my self busy repairing my equipment/cleaning the city streets of garbage and not just sit around doing nothing (if i was too depressed to keep active i'd go somewhere where no one can see me, so i dont bother anyone)
its really not that difficult to be a decent person, even if everything is against you (which in today's society everything isnt against you).
-----That's victim blaming, dude. Not on. Also, I'd prefer if you didn't bring my country into it.
well in many cases the "victim" does take some blame, in the case of Syria their blame comes from letting their country get weak enough/too out of control and then invaded. we need to get out of the ideology that the "victim" is always innocent/did nothing wrong, because in many cases the "victim" likely antagonized a response, or did something stupid that lead to something bad. also australia is taking in some refugees so it is involved in this situation, i am not saying anything bad about Australia i was just saying that turkey is closer than Australia.
-----The people fleeing ISIS and other extremist groups aren't all just able-bodied men. There's women, children and the elderly there too.
children, elderly, and disabled/injured i am completely fine with taking in as they aren't able to fight back that well. though why did you place women in that list? women are completely able to fight and in many cases can easily out smart men. hell look at the Russian snipers during WW2 as an example... they got a different thought process compared to men so that's even more diversity in a fighting force which can make it stronger. women aren't weak people that we need to take care of and help out all the time, many of them are able to take care of them selves, and hell iv seen some which would likely make a fool of me in hand to hand combat (if i was even stupid enough to try boxing/martial arts practice with them).
-----And even if there was only able-bodied men, so what? To demand that they go back there and fight a group of violent religious zealots rather than seeking somewhere safe where they don't have to fear being brutally killed is terrible.
well by running away/retreating you are just letting the bad grow and get worse... life isnt safe all the time, and you need to get up and fight for whats right. if America just wanted to be safe and ran away from all conflicts Europe/northern africa would likely still be under Nazi occupation, and the empire of japan would pretty much own all The Pacific, and maybe Hawaii. someone needs to fix the issues in those country and the people who should fix that are the ones who caused it so the refugees who let the problem get that bad, the Americas who voted to go out there (i dont have proof on me but iv heard that hillary voted for the middle eastern wars) and mess things up, and the Russians who were messing with the middle east before.
the elderly also take blame here since they let the country lead to the mess it is, but sending them into battle is inhumane, will just slow down fixing stuff, and will lead to far more unnecessary deaths/injuries
because if they arent going to clean up the problem who is? hell i had no part in this so it sure as hell isnt going to be my tax dollars....
-----Are you going to show the same courage you so flippantly demand of them and lead them onto the battlefield?
will i fight with them on the battlefield? No... because i was not the one who made this mess. I would however show courage if it was my careless mistake that lead to the mess, or if i did not try hard enough to stop it at all. both of which would not happen, as i put lots of thought in many of the things i do, and i'd likely be trying to stop the issues from growing if i was able to.
now if fighting actually leaded to a significant improvement in the life quality of those i love, or if i lose all those i love i'll defend where ever im living with my life (though this second one only if i have people fighting along side me)


now i got a great idea.... give me a reliable rifle with some ammo, a bullet proof vest, bullet proof vehicle, a piece of livable property in a rural area, some time to build a home, and then lets just completely get rid of our border protection stuff. that way anyone who is in a similar situation as me can just get their loved one(s) into the US easily, and i can bring anyone that i care about away from the heavily populated areas, and we wouldn't be a bother to anyone.
Spoiler: show
though being serious i'd be fine with anyone coming into the country (though still a ban on bringing tanks, or other weapons into the country) as long as i get my partner, anyone else with loved ones out of this country gets them too, i can get an isolated piece of property, and something to protect my self/others with. go ahead do what ever you want, just make things fair, and let me protect my self.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 30, 2017, 12:21:29 pm
Much of the orders Trump has signed are along the paths he promised in his campain. So
that should have been expected. Also much is in line with the GOP. So they are not going
to complain. There were entities doing all they could to make Clinton look bad, so it's no
wonder Trump squeaked out a win. She didn't help, by taking for granted some parts of
the country were going to vote for her.

Demonstrations alone are not going to change Trump, he apparently thinks his supporters
are behind his every action. it's the GOP, and to change them requires letting them know 
they will loose the next election if they ignore the majority of their voters. The GOP has
worked to make it difficult for the opposition party todefeat them by setting up voting
districts to favor the GOP. So if you want to defeat the party in power you will have to
start at the state level.

If people really care about what goes on in governlment they will have to take part by
running for office or getting out and voting. Not just because your friend likes the
person running, but because he supports your views and ideas. Look at his/her record
as many politicans will only say what they think you want to hear.

I fear the current leadership is pushing to let religious beliefs decide what laws are
to be made for us all. The trouble with allowing religion to say what is good and bad
is how people interpit it. People down through the centuries have claimed they know
what their God wants them to do. This almost always leads to suffering by people
who look or act different than the believers in power. That is why our constitution was
written to seperate church and state.

Still devoted believers still try to invoke their beliefs on those around them. The current
Vice President is a good example, along with Senator Ted Cruz of Texas for another. Then
some people use religion as an excuse to do terrible things. Slavery was justified by people
who used religion as a guide.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 30, 2017, 05:43:20 pm
Quote
Trump is putting more far right people into the National security counsil.
People who don't support rights for minorities, gays, or women. Trump
needs to kick all those hard right people out. They will create more problems
for him and us in the future. I think they are at the bottom of much of the
radical actions Trump has taken.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-executive-actions/index.html


That link doesn't get into the National security council issues very well. This
link takes you to a video that goes in depth about it. You will have to watch
it for a bit to see it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/trump-puts-steve-bannon-on-national-security-council/vp-AAmnLtN

And here's another link on the National Security Council mess.  >:(
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/susan-rice-steve-bannon/index.html

I totally agree that Bannon has no place being on the NSC whatsoever.  >:( There's a reason why the NSC has the word "Security" in it. It's composed of a group of mostly, but not necessarily all, people who have a lot of military and foreign policy experience to help give the President advice on what to do in a crisis. Steve Bannon has neither the military nor the foreign policy experience to be in the NSC group. When I first heard and read about this, all I could think of was the scene in the Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers movie where Gandalf and company are in the hall of King Theodin of Rohan. Grima Wormtongue is the King's advisor and whispers ill "sage advice" to a king who is under the spell of the evil Sauron.

Putting Steve Bannon in the NSC is a wrong move. We don't need an alt-right anti-semantic racist dictating foreign policy and especially military matters.  >:(  >:(  >:(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon

I tend to feel that Donald Trump seems to have the ear of Steve Bannon a little too much. You have to wonder who's really pulling the strings and in control of the Presidency? Is it Donald Trump or Steve Bannon? Perhaps DT and SB are "bed buddies"? Sharing tweets and God only knows what else!  :goldlaugh:

Donald Trump is nothing but a puppet for Steve Bannon to control. SB is pulling all the strings.  :goldpissed:
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 30, 2017, 11:02:03 pm
Well, this didn't last very long.  :o  Just goes to show that mean spirited, racist, bigoted Trump will do and say whatever he wants to get whatever he wants at whatever the cost, even if it means sacrificing laws, ethics, judicial system, etc., etc.  The guy simply doesn't give a crap about anyone or anything. Anybody or anything that stands in his way is simply run over.  >:(  >:(  >:(
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/donald-trump-immigration-order-department-of-justice/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/chuck-schumer-department-of-justice-donald-trump/index.html


http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/white-house-statement-attorney-general/index.html
Quote
The acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, has betrayed the Department of Justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States. This order was approved as to form and legality by the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel.
Betrayed? Next thing you know, DT will start saying this was treason. Screw you, DT! >:(
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 31, 2017, 12:06:25 am
Five states calling Trumps religious ban unconstitutional. Both reps and dems also calling it unconstitutional. Justus department oversteps bounds but still making a stance against this mandate. Trump's calling it just the same as Obama's. Trump blames the problem on democrats.  Again he's lying to try to get his way. Trump continues to call the American media the 'opposition party". Trump has appointed a single person to be a security advisor. Then tells two branches of government they are not welcome at security meetings.

179 days to impeachment.

For the first time in history an American president has caused protests around the world.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 31, 2017, 02:16:26 am
btw you guys actually sure its a religon ban? i hear that UAE, Malaysia, and a few other places which have high muslims populations dont have these bans on them....
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on January 31, 2017, 06:23:47 am
Yeah, places in which Trump has a lot of business interests don't have a ban. All other Muslim countries do. Funny that, isn't it?
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on January 31, 2017, 06:43:21 am
what happened to my mother is relevant to the Mexican dealer connections the other guy had, and if we had a stronger border that guy might have never even gotten involved in drugs meaning we would have never been getting treats/things stolen; so yes what happened to my mom is relevant to all the stuff with Mexican criminals coming into the US. when he says Mexico is sending over criminals i dont think he means they are intentionally "sending" over criminals but that many criminals are coming from Mexico there for a wall between us and a place where many criminals are coming from is going to make there be less criminals.

also there is the thing where if you over stay your visa, or if you come into the US without permission you are a criminal so ya... every illegal immigrant is a criminal so trump is pretty correct... building a wall is not xenophobic, its criminalphobic....

Again, what happened to your mother is irrelevant to the fact that the wall is xenophobic. He also worded what he said very specifically, and if he meant to say that criminals were coming in from Mexico he would have worded it differently. He used very specific language in order to incite fear and hatred of another nation's people, dude. He's building his wall despite all evidence contrary to his insistence of its necessity.

Additionally, I've noticed something here:

Of all the times you've seemed to discuss your hardships, you've shifted the blame onto others -- illegals, Mexicans, people working in border security, blacks -- whereas whenever it's someone else who is experiencing difficulties, you've shifted the blame back onto them.

You've tried to paint refugees as the bad guys when their little isolated townships and even their cities are overrun by religious zealots, and the populace massacred and raped and enslaved, which is ridiculous and offensive on a level that I find hard to describe, to be honest. It shows a tremendous lack of compassion for people who have experienced things that all things willing you will never have to experience in your lifetime.

I know a man who came over here from Iraq, and he is one of the most softly spoken, gentle people I have ever known in my life. I used to meet up with him once a week at a local gathering because we shared a common interest and he would talk to me about what he used to do for a living in his homeland -- he was an aerospace engineer -- and, once or twice, of the terrible things he saw, and you could just tell by the way he talked that it had impacted him in such a profound way that even the extremely vague, sanitised stories he used to tell me shook him somewhere very deep inside his person whenever he told me them. To even insinuate that he, by some bizarre logic, may be to blame for the awful things that befell him and that he had to flee from is incredibly insensitive and offensive.

That's not a matter of political correctness, but a matter of understanding and patience and respect for other people who have been through unimaginable horror.

Likewise, you blame blacks for their own behaviour despite not being willing to understand the reasons behind their circumstance, no matter whether they might have grown up in extreme poverty, in communities where they cannot trust the police, where institutionalised racism has dragged them down into a swamp so deep that there's no way of getting out by themselves without the help and support of others that they never, ever get. And then you sit behind your computer, safe in the comfort of your home where you don't have to worry about whether your brother or sister or mother might not come home because the neighbourhood is just that bad, and tell them to get over it.

Is a woman who goes back to her abusive boyfriend after he beats her senseless to blame for being beaten? Are the victims of, say, the Armenian genocide to blame for their extermination for not rising up against the systematic oppression and violence of the Ottoman Empire? Is a pedestrian who gets hit by a drunk driver that runs a red light to blame for not checking the road one more time before crossing?

If they are not, what's the difference between those and the above things I've objected to?

Quote
i am not saying anything bad about Australia i was just saying that turkey is closer than Australia.

I'm just uphappy that you tried to bring my country into this.

Quote
children, elderly, and disabled/injured i am completely fine with taking in as they aren't able to fight back that well. though why did you place women in that list? women are completely able to fight and in many cases can easily out smart men. hell look at the Russian snipers during WW2 as an example... they got a different thought process compared to men so that's even more diversity in a fighting force which can make it stronger. women aren't weak people that we need to take care of and help out all the time, many of them are able to take care of them selves, and hell iv seen some which would likely make a fool of me in hand to hand combat (if i was even stupid enough to try boxing/martial arts practice with them).

I specifically mention able bodied men because that is typically what the right wing media likes to paint the majority of the Syrian refugees as. Not out of ignorance.

Quote
will i fight with them on the battlefield? No... because i was not the one who made this mess. I would however show courage if it was my careless mistake that lead to the mess, or if i did not try hard enough to stop it at all. both of which would not happen, as i put lots of thought in many of the things i do, and i'd likely be trying to stop the issues from growing if i was able to.
now if fighting actually leaded to a significant improvement in the life quality of those i love, or if i lose all those i love i'll defend where ever im living with my life (though this second one only if i have people fighting along side me)

I'm not sure why you see it fit to make demands of them, in that case.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on January 31, 2017, 11:19:28 am
Yeah, places in which Trump has a lot of business interests don't have a ban. All other Muslim countries do. Funny that, isn't it?
funny thing is that the countries banned Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Libya are all countries iv been hearing random terrorist stuff from... UNE, Malaysia, and what ever the other places i havent heard much about.. really seems as if its only "terrorist" countries that are banned not due to business interest. (or maybe its business interest and all the terrorist countries are the ones who dont want to do business)

-----Again, what happened to your mother is irrelevant to the fact that the wall is xenophobic. He also worded what he said very specifically, and if he meant to say that criminals were coming in from Mexico he would have worded it differently. He used very specific language in order to incite fear and hatred of another nation's people, dude. He's building his wall despite all evidence contrary to his insistence of its necessity.
in case you havent noticed elections are all about rhetoric/exaggerations... the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though and i doubt anyone would believe what is said there if taken literally, thats why i believe what he really meant was many criminals are coming from mexico (and again come into america with permission, or over staying your visa makes you a criminal so there are many criminals coming from mexico) also again a wall is not xenophobic it's there for protection...
-----Of all the times you've seemed to discuss your hardships, you've shifted the blame onto others -- illegals, Mexicans, people working in border security, blacks -- whereas whenever it's someone else who is experiencing difficulties, you've shifted the blame back onto them.
You've tried to paint refugees as the bad guys when their little isolated townships and even their cities are overrun by religious zealots, and the populace massacred and raped and enslaved, which is ridiculous and offensive on a level that I find hard to describe, to be honest. It shows a tremendous lack of compassion for people who have experienced things that all things willing you will never have to experience in your lifetime.
as for blaming others it is reasonable. iv gone through alot, and had many issues but was it at anyone's expense? no it was not./// illegal immigrants come into the US illegally and take advantage of our welfare which then leads to law makers creating more strict laws/// the border officer who denied keitsu from entering the US created falsified documents which might have been the reason for his ESTA being taken away /// the African Americans iv seen make a mess of cities, take advantage of welfare, and in some cases harm others.
i "paint" refugees as the "bad guys" because it doesnt seem like they tried hard enough to prevent this stuff from happening, they skip the line to get  into countries that other people spend years trying to get into, they start taking our tax dollars, and a majority of them dont seem to be productive in our societies at all (taking France, Germany, Sweden, etc as examples)
well i dont really see any lack of compassion in me. it bothers me deeply that people go through this stuff, but it also bothers me that they let this stuff happen to them without fighting back, and then they just run off placing their burden on others. i would want to help out if i could but i need all the money i can get, and i just dont see any chance of improvement in their lives. from my observations with again what is going on in Europe, they are just not working hard enough/doing things correctly and they have been in Europe for several months now. hell if i was actually able to help out lots of people and see them get back on their feet maybe i wouldn't be so depressed.. trust me the issues that people need to deal with bother me alot, but many things are not fixable unless the individual puts their own effort into it, there are other people who need help, and then the one issue where atm i am one of those people who needs help so i'd rather not be forced to help others (i am however barely getting any help, yet i am slowly working towards being able to help my self)
-----I know a man who came over here from Iraq, and he is one of the most softly spoken, gentle people I have ever known in my life. I used to meet up with him once a week at a local gathering because we shared a common interest and he would talk to me about what he used to do for a living in his homeland -- he was an aerospace engineer -- and, once or twice, of the terrible things he saw, and you could just tell by the way he talked that it had impacted him in such a profound way that even the extremely vague, sanitised stories he used to tell me shook him somewhere very deep inside his person whenever he told me them. To even insinuate that he, by some bizarre logic, may be to blame for the awful things that befell him and that he had to flee from is incredibly insensitive and offensive.
ya you see the difference here is that he is/was an aerospace engineer... he actually provided a valuable service to his country while he could. hell i know someone from iran who was very friendly, and i know a bunch of my dad's friends who come from Lebanon/possibly Jordan and Syria. the difference here is that these people were wealthy and actually provided a service in that other country before things turned bad. they also came here legally having to wait in line like everyone else, no one's tax dollars is going towards them, and they picked up their lives once they got here instead of sitting around in camps doing nothing or destroying stuff (in reference to the news iv been hearing in France, Germany, Sweden, etc.) maybe if these people we know actually got some help from others the countries wouldn't have collapsed?

the main things here is that they either had the money to take care of them selves, or they waited in line to get here. many of the refugees that are coming in haven't done either.
-----That's not a matter of political correctness, but a matter of understanding and patience and respect for other people who have been through unimaginable horror.
"unimaginable horror" ya... war happens, suffering happens, death happens..... it isnt unimaginable and its something that we need to be strong about, if you cant handle it and want to hide behind others that is up to who ever "guards" you. do not demand that you be taken care of, if you are lucky enough to be taken care of help out in any way you can, be grateful, and do not cause any issues.
if i lost my partner and my dog ill likely feel worse than many of those refugees and just lose all will to live, but the thing here is that i will not demand that other help me, i will not cause issues for other people, and ill be grateful for any help i receive instead of expecting more.
also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...
-----Likewise, you blame blacks for their own behavior despite not being willing to understand the reasons behind their circumstance, no matter whether they might have grown up in extreme poverty, in communities where they cannot trust the police, where institutionalized racism has dragged them down into a swamp so deep that there's no way of getting out by themselves without the help and support of others that they never, ever get. And then you sit behind your computer, safe in the comfort of your home where you don't have to worry about whether your brother or sister or mother might not come home because the neighborhood is just that bad, and tell them to get over it.
like i said before no matter what happens you have no right to harm another human, demand that you be helped, etc...
as for not being able to trust the police, iv got some tips....
-wear proper clothing.. sagging pants usually makes many people feel uncomfortable and attracts attention. cant afford a belt? use a piece of string/plastic bags.
-do not get drunk or high out in public
-do not throw trash on the ground
-do not be running around the city all the time, if you are wearing a suit thats fine, if you are wearing cheep clothing that is going to grab attention.
-talk in a reasonable volume, and for once just stop swearing..
-when a cop says put your hands up, put your hands up... (in nearly every single video iv seen of a cop shooting an African American when the cop said put your hands up the person densest listen)
-when a cop says stop resisting, stop resisting
-do not reach for the cop's gun (seen on video several times)
^^ this will mostly solve the police problem-there will likely still be some racist cops but whats better being in jail for a bit, or being shot/killed?

ya the thing is that iv got many things going against me to, yet am i behaving in any way that is harming/disturbing anyone else? no i am not. The reason im safe is because i dont make stupid decisions. if i were to go out acting/dressed like what i just described i'd expect to be arrested/shot. Also i dont have to worry about my family not coming home because i know they will not try anything stupid, and that they will make good decisions. if my family behaved the same way the majority of they do then i would be concerned for their safety.

but once again since when does being in a bad situation justify me to harm/disturb other people or the environment?
-----Is a woman who goes back to her abusive boyfriend after he beats her senseless to blame for being beaten? Are the victims of, say, the Armenian genocide to blame for their extermination for not rising up against the systematic oppression and violence of the Ottoman Empire? Is a pedestrian who gets hit by a drunk driver that runs a red light to blame for not checking the road one more time before crossing?
If they are not, what's the difference between those and the above things I've objected to?
if someone has an abusive "partner" and they go back to them and get beaten again they have partial blame/are the part of the cause of that happening. i'd expect for the "partner" to pay/work for the all medical costs if needed
I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)
As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)
-----I'm just uphappy that you tried to bring my country into this.
and im just unhappy that people bring my country into this mess. whether we like it or not both our countries are involved. i didn't bring Australia into it, who ever is letting the refugees into Australia brought Australia into it. hell australia might be my home in several months (through legal visas/immigration) so im upset about Australia being involved too.
I specifically mention able bodied men because that is typically what the right wing media likes to paint the majority of the Syrian refugees as. Not out of ignorance.
well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)
-----I'm not sure why you see it fit to make demands of them, in that case.
ok then im just going to spill a bunch of oil out in the middle of the ocean on accident.... im not going to clean it up though. see the problem here? someone needs to clean up the mess, and it should be who ever let the mess happened, or caused it, not everyone should have to fix it. though because any threat is a threat to us all i'd support clearing that "oil spill" (in other words if i had money i'd "donate" it to them to take back their country by force)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 31, 2017, 12:39:12 pm
Five states calling Trumps religious ban unconstitutional. Both reps and dems also calling it unconstitutional.
^ But will the Dems, Repubs, and the Supreme Court overturn it? Probably not.  :P They'll "complain" about it, but probably won't lift a finger to counter it, especially the Repubs.

Justus department oversteps bounds but still making a stance against this mandate.
^ Yay for them standing up to Trump!  :D

Trump's calling it just the same as Obama's.
No, it's not the same as Obama's. Trump's plan is much more vile and worse.  >:(

Trump blames the problem on democrats.
Naturally. What else is new? Trump will continue to blame the Dems for everything while the Repubs get nothing.  :P

 Again he's lying to try to get his way.
He'll always lie. It's in his blood. He was probably "born and raised" to lie.  :P

Trump continues to call the American media the 'opposition party".


Trump has appointed a single person to be a security advisor. Then tells two branches of government they are not welcome at security meetings.
This is bad. Very, very bad.  :o  >:(


179 days to impeachment.

For the first time in history an American president has caused protests around the world.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 31, 2017, 12:41:46 pm
Yeah, places in which Trump has a lot of business interests don't have a ban. All other Muslim countries do. Funny that, isn't it?

And I also find it curious that Afghanistan wasn't put on that list because of ties to Al-Queda terrorists.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on January 31, 2017, 12:57:04 pm
Trump went out of his way trying to hide the fact his refugee ban is about Muslims.
He apparently is wanting to keep his promise to ban them even if he has to do it
through the back door.

His fireing of the acting atterney general just shows he is a man who hates to
loose. The senate is likely to approve his pick for a racist atterney general in a
few days at best. Still he had to fire her even though she had certain powers
that could be needed by the foreign service at any time. Trump either didn't know
or care about this possible problem he caused.

Bannon is likely the driving force pushing Trump to the far right. In the past he was
more to the left than the right. Trump isn't one to be pushed around, but he respects
Bannon, and is likely to follow his policy ideas.

As written the ban harms our military and state department. Who is going to 
help us when they can't believe anything our president says. It also helps the
terrorists gain more support. Carry on Trump, perhaps you will go down
as the most hated president in history.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on January 31, 2017, 03:12:43 pm
I think this article proves who's really calling the shots at the White House. It sure as hell ain't Donald Trump. Trump has become nothing but a mouthpiece and a political puppet for Steve Bannon and his far right rhetoric and policies. So maybe it's not Trump we should all be worried about, but rather Steve Bannon instead.  :o  :o  :o  :goldpissed: :goldpissed: :goldpissed:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/steve-bannon-national-security-council-trump/index.html
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on January 31, 2017, 10:42:08 pm
The president of the EU (European Union) declare Trump "dangerous" and " a threat ".
At this time Trump is facing 41 lawsuits.

178 days to impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 01, 2017, 11:37:11 am
I imagine Trump is getting enough money from foreign leaders to pay his
costs of those law suits. Then again he will probably let the tax payer pay
instead.

After all if the constitution gets in the way he just makes an excuse
saying "The people elected me to do this. " the GOP nods and he
carries on.

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on February 02, 2017, 06:16:10 am
in case you havent noticed elections are all about rhetoric/exaggerations... the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though and i doubt anyone would believe what is said there if taken literally, thats why i believe what he really meant was many criminals are coming from mexico (and again come into america with permission, or over staying your visa makes you a criminal so there are many criminals coming from mexico) also again a wall is not xenophobic it's there for protection...

Elections are actually about selecting a party or person to lead your community.

And illegal immigration from Mexico, as I said before, is down. Their economy is burgeoning. The wall will not accomplish anything significant as far as stemming the tide of illegal immigrants coming into your country. The reasoning behind it was blatantly fake and it preyed entirely on a portion of your country's xenophobic tendencies -- as evidenced by his proclamation that the 'necessity' of the wall would be blamed squarely upon the Mexicans by insisting they foot the bill!

Also,

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the whole "mexico is sending over their criminals" thing is a very illogical though

Trump isn't a logical person. He is a narcissistic idiot. He doesn't bother to run his ideas past other people. Have you seen his Twitter feed? Why would you assume he'd do or say sensible things?

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as for blaming others it is reasonable. iv gone through alot, and had many issues but was it at anyone's expense? no it was not./// illegal immigrants come into the US illegally and take advantage of our welfare which then leads to law makers creating more strict laws/// the border officer who denied keitsu from entering the US created falsified documents which might have been the reason for his ESTA being taken away /// the African Americans iv seen make a mess of cities, take advantage of welfare, and in some cases harm others.

That immigrants making life hard for you thing seems extremely tenuous to me. You are blaming some nebulous group of people for the relatively recent tightening of immigration laws that are complex and have many different influencing factors, including the 9/11 attacks. You wouldn't remember all of that as it happened but I do. And that complaint about African Americans, the way it's currently worded, comes across as pretty racist.

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i "paint" refugees as the "bad guys" because it doesnt seem like they tried hard enough to prevent this stuff from happening, they skip the line to get  into countries that other people spend years trying to get into, they start taking our tax dollars, and a majority of them dont seem to be productive in our societies at all (taking France, Germany, Sweden, etc as examples)

That's serious victim blaming, dude. The whole thing about them not preventing murderous brigades of fundamentalist maniacs rolling into their towns to rape, pillage and murder the inhabitants is ridiculously inhumane and shows a serious lack of compassion for other human beings. I don't know how to emphasise this any more than that. What do you want those communities, some of them so isolated that they don't even know what's going on in the world around them, to do? Religious extremism isn't always an outward trait that's easily identifiable if a person is absolutely intent on not making it so.

Also, why are you talking about your tax dollars? You've already said you don't pay any.

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well i dont really see any lack of compassion in me. it bothers me deeply that people go through this stuff, but it also bothers me that they let this stuff happen to them without fighting back, and then they just run off placing their burden on others.

That's the definition of lacking compassion. You can't claim to be compassionate whilst treating these people like they're selfish and just a burden foisted upon others.

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ya you see the difference here is that he is/was an aerospace engineer... he actually provided a valuable service to his country while he could. hell i know someone from iran who was very friendly, and i know a bunch of my dad's friends who come from Lebanon/possibly Jordan and Syria. the difference here is that these people were wealthy and actually provided a service in that other country before things turned bad. they also came here legally having to wait in line like everyone else, no one's tax dollars is going towards them, and they picked up their lives once they got here instead of sitting around in camps doing nothing or destroying stuff (in reference to the news iv been hearing in France, Germany, Sweden, etc.) maybe if these people we know actually got some help from others the countries wouldn't have collapsed? the main things here is that they either had the money to take care of them selves, or they waited in line to get here. many of the refugees that are coming in haven't done either.

So only the rich and privileged are worth offering help, and not just the normal, regular people who just wanted to live their lives in their home country before they were forcibly displaced by a hostile force?

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"unimaginable horror" ya... war happens, suffering happens, death happens..... it isnt unimaginable and its something that we need to be strong about, if you cant handle it and want to hide behind others that is up to who ever "guards" you. do not demand that you be taken care of, if you are lucky enough to be taken care of help out in any way you can, be grateful, and do not cause any issues.

That's not very compassionate.

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if i lost my partner and my dog ill likely feel worse than many of those refugees and just lose all will to live, but the thing here is that i will not demand that other help me, i will not cause issues for other people, and ill be grateful for any help i receive instead of expecting more.

Dude.

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also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...

But you don't know anything about these people. They might have been perfectly content and maybe not even been refugees when they had their children ten years ago and hadn't planned at all to move over to your country, for all you know.

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like i said before no matter what happens you have no right to harm another human, demand that you be helped, etc...
as for not being able to trust the police, iv got some tips....
-wear proper clothing.. sagging pants usually makes many people feel uncomfortable and attracts attention. cant afford a belt? use a piece of string/plastic bags.
-do not get drunk or high out in public
-do not throw trash on the ground
-do not be running around the city all the time, if you are wearing a suit thats fine, if you are wearing cheep clothing that is going to grab attention.
-talk in a reasonable volume, and for once just stop swearing..
-when a cop says put your hands up, put your hands up... (in nearly every single video iv seen of a cop shooting an African American when the cop said put your hands up the person densest listen)
-when a cop says stop resisting, stop resisting
-do not reach for the cop's gun (seen on video several times)
^^ this will mostly solve the police problem-there will likely still be some racist cops but whats better being in jail for a bit, or being shot/killed?

Sagging pants don't make me uncomfortable. And there's numerous studies that show that racial profiling by the police is a thing (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias). If law enforcement is out to get them, how will the community improve? Distrust doesn't build relationships, and neither does racism.

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ya the thing is that iv got many things going against me to, yet am i behaving in any way that is harming/disturbing anyone else? no i am not. The reason im safe is because i dont make stupid decisions. if i were to go out acting/dressed like what i just described i'd expect to be arrested/shot. Also i dont have to worry about my family not coming home because i know they will not try anything stupid, and that they will make good decisions. if my family behaved the same way the majority of they do then i would be concerned for their safety.

Why does dressing a certain way inevitably get someone shot? Isn't that stereotyping? And are you saying that every black guy who gets shot on the street made a dumb decision, and it couldn't have been a matter of wrong place, wrong time, or maybe someone was out to get them?

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if someone has an abusive "partner" and they go back to them and get beaten again they have partial blame/are the part of the cause of that happening. i'd expect for the "partner" to pay/work for the all medical costs if needed

Oh my god no, dude. I threw you this as a bone to encourage you to think about your reasoning, not to double down on it! How is the victim to blame if it's entirely the choice of the perpetrator to engage in their violent, abusive behaviour (http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/)? And there's also the fact that people who are in an abusive relationship take about six times to successfully escape because it's incredibly scary for them. They're afraid of retribution if they come out and tell the police, or leave their partner, or talk to family about what's happening to them -- or even people judging them and saying it was their fault!

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I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)

I'm not gonna ask you about those, I think.

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As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)

Just... no, dude.

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well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)

That's just more victim blaming.

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ok then im just going to spill a bunch of oil out in the middle of the ocean on accident.... im not going to clean it up though. see the problem here? someone needs to clean up the mess, and it should be who ever let the mess happened, or caused it, not everyone should have to fix it. though because any threat is a threat to us all i'd support clearing that "oil spill" (in other words if i had money i'd "donate" it to them to take back their country by force)

Are you comparing refugees who are fleeing persecution to some hypothetical oil company that spilled thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean? Wow.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 02, 2017, 11:56:26 am
Elections are actually about selecting a party or person to lead your community.
this is what they should be but that is not what they are. everyone uses rhetoric in US elections, not sure about australian elections but over here its nothing but rhetoric and talk. 
And illegal immigration from Mexico, as I said before, is down. Their economy is burgeoning. The wall will not accomplish anything significant as far as stemming the tide of illegal immigrants coming into your country. The reasoning behind it was blatantly fake and it preyed entirely on a portion of your country's xenophobic tendencies -- as evidenced by his proclamation that the 'necessity' of the wall would be blamed squarely upon the Mexicans by insisting they foot the bill!
once again i dont agree too much on the wall, but i still dont see much xenophobia about it. it might not be significant but the wall will likely help quite a bit (though the real issue is that we need to start deporting the people who overstay visas.
Trump isn't a logical person. He is a narcissistic idiot. He doesn't bother to run his ideas past other people. Have you seen his Twitter feed? Why would you assume he'd do or say sensible things?
iv seen his twitter and imo its not that bad, seems like he just likes to talk. imo i'd say that some "feminist" or "liberal" twitter pages iv seen had worse stuff than trump. 
That immigrants making life hard for you thing seems extremely tenuous to me. You are blaming some nebulous group of people for the relatively recent tightening of immigration laws that are complex and have many different influencing factors, including the 9/11 attacks. You wouldn't remember all of that as it happened but I do. And that complaint about African Americans, the way it's currently worded, comes across as pretty racist.
well its correct to a certain extent. yes the 9/11 attacks caused many issues but if people would just give the gov time, and help the gov out then the immigration laws wouldnt be more strict. hell instead of demanding that you be let into the US show that you will actually be useful here, and not a burden.  also call what i say racist but i really dont care what you say because personally i have nothing against individuals of different skin color, race, or species. i just use that information to make a quick guess on how someone might behave, or if they are a threat.
That's serious victim blaming, dude. The whole thing about them not preventing murderous brigades of fundamentalist maniacs rolling into their towns to rape, pillage and murder the inhabitants is ridiculously inhumane and shows a serious lack of compassion for other human beings. I don't know how to emphasize this any more than that. What do you want those communities, some of them so isolated that they don't even know what's going on in the world around them, to do? Religious extremism isn't always an outward trait that's easily identifiable if a person is absolutely intent on not making it so.
well first thing would be to raise your children to not believe in that stuff (i am sure that there are many refugees that have family member in those groups, though this doesnt apply to all) another thing is to stay alert to your surroundings which isnt too difficult (unless they are lacking food/water but if they are lacking food/water thats a bad place to have settled) if you see a bunch of people with guns heading towards your town then maybe that isnt a good sign? as for fighting back there are guns all over the place over there, hell i read a news article awhile back that some people uncovered boxes filled with STG 44s (its old but those were nice rifles) and again if you dont have supplies to fight im pretty sure that turkey would be happy to have more soldiers. also there are some early signs on if someone is a threat. do they talk about you going to hell all the time? possible threat. do they talk about god/Allah like they/their teachings are more important than a person? possible threat. do they talk about infidels? this is a stereotype but in many isis videos i hear them say that alot so if you hear anyone even mention that word then its a possible threat. do they sacrifice animals? possible threat. there are likely more ways to find one but i dont live there so i cant point them out. these are just guesses so im not too sure how they would work so if they dont work then the getting help from turkey idea might be the best.
Also, why are you talking about your tax dollars? You've already said you don't pay any.
once i start working im going to be paying tax. not paying tax right now, but i will be later and it takes time to change laws so i'd rather push for this before i need to start paying. also i'm tired of having other people who dont want to give their money waste their money on this stuff.
That's the definition of lacking compassion. You can't claim to be compassionate whilst treating these people like they're selfish and just a burden foisted upon others.
if their suffering bothers/concerns you thats the definition of compassion. "sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others:" though some/many of us got our own survival/lives to worry about. also getting helped and not offering any help in turn likely means you are a burden... (again what is going on in Europe is a good example of a burden)
So only the rich and privileged are worth offering help, and not just the normal, regular people who just wanted to live their lives in their home country before they were forcibly displaced by a hostile force?
we arent offering the rich/"privileged" help, we are just letting them in our country since they can take care of themselves, and they can also help us in the process. they might get their visa processed a little faster because they are in danger, but in the end they are no burden. and if the regular people worked with the rich to improve things then maybe the countries wouldnt have "fallen." hell im pretty sure my dad's friends would have loved to stay in their country because they lost alot of money coming to the US. it takes alot of people working together to keep a society together, but clearly they didnt work together good enough. as for the reason not to help the normal people thats because they will be draining our resources, hell we got tons of homeless/issues in our country taking in more people who have a sketchy background/no records is a horrible idea. last thing we need is more jobless/homeless people in this country that we have to take care of.
That's not very compassionate.
again the way i feel falls in line with the definition of compassionate. i dont like the fact either but war, suffering, and death do happen and we need to be more resilient to it. the next thing is just telling people to be grateful for the help they receive if they aren't strong about it which is something that i havent really seen (again Europe as an example) the only thing im "demanding" here is that they be a decent individual, which i have the right to refuse helping if they arent even grateful for it. weakness to these things is kinda a bad thing since your chances of survival are lowered by it, but its not something that i view as a major issue, its not being grateful, or payingback/helping that is the problem.
Dude.
all im saying here is that ill not bother anyone, and be a decent human, so i dont see why you are surprised/weirded out by it (or at least thats what i felt your reply was expressing)
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also if you are a refugee, or in a undesirable situation, DO NOT have children. hell iv seen many pictures of refugee children who are likely not even 10. stop having children if you cant take care of them, or provide them a good life...
But you don't know anything about these people. They might have been perfectly content and maybe not even been refugees when they had their children ten years ago and hadn't planned at all to move over to your country, for all you know.
when i said not even 10 i mean age<10 hell iv seen babies, toddlers, etc. if you hear bombs, and gunfire in the distance maybe then is not the best time to have a child. and from personal experience explosives can be heard from a very long/far distance so you have tons of time to know things arent going well.
Sagging pants don't make me uncomfortable. And there's numerous studies that show that racial profiling by the police is a thing (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias). If law enforcement is out to get them, how will the community improve? Distrust doesn't build relationships, and neither does racism.
okay then.. but i speak for many people i know that sagging pants makes them feel uncomfortable (hell i feel i'd be more comfortable seeing someone running around in their boxers, walking around with your pants below your hips just doesnt feel right) also from my experience most people iv seen with sagging pants are either stoners (not an issue but you can easily tell that by how calm they are) or they are trouble makers. yes racial profiling is a thing, it allows for quicker judgements. while it is a bad thing and people should be more careful about it, its likely saved many cops from harm. and the law enforcement isnt "out to get them"
also btw you completely ignored the littering, drug/alcohol use, improper language etc. all of those things are illegal (last one falling under public disturbance) stop doing these things and the cops will have less reasons to stop you. you also forgot the last part on how to deal with police... put your hands up and its likely more cops will be less wary of people like you/in the same area.
its only after that that trust can be built. many people might get arrested for bad reasons due to the few racist cops out there, but if you clean up your act, and stop doing illegal things these racist copes have less excuses to hide behind.
Why does dressing a certain way inevitably get someone shot? Isn't that stereotyping? And are you saying that every black guy who gets shot on the street made a dumb decision, and it couldn't have been a matter of wrong place, wrong time, or maybe someone was out to get them?
again its not the way they dress its just that the way they dress bring more attention to them. yes it is stereotyping, but thats because people who dress like that have caused lots of trouble/dont listen.
from most of the body cams/videos iv seen of black people getting shot yes they made very Very stupid decisions (with the exception of that one guy who got shot in his car, with the girl videotaping it. imo that was a misunderstanding that was caused by the officer not being trained enough, and by the amount of times African Americans have dealt with cops) in the case that there are abusive cops stick together with friends, live stream the stuff, and do not end up getting shot (which involves not resisting if the cop is trying to arrest you) the more lives that are taken the more messy and unorganized things get, and the harder it is to point out which cops are abusive since there is no victim to talk. let the cops arrest you, deal with the time if necessary then work on ways to prove that you did nothing wrong (private security cameras maybe) there are no doubt actual racist cops out there who do bad stuff and they are enemies to us all, but we cant do anything about it if more innocent cops are killing out of fear that they know police as a whole are hated.
Oh my god no, dude. I threw you this as a bone to encourage you to think about your reasoning, not to double down on it! How is the victim to blame if it's entirely the choice of the perpetrator to engage in their violent, abusive behaviour (http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/educated/avoiding-victim-blaming/)? And there's also the fact that people who are in an abusive relationship take about six times to successfully escape because it's incredibly scary for them. They're afraid of retribution if they come out and tell the police, or leave their partner, or talk to family about what's happening to them -- or even people judging them and saying it was their fault!
That's why I said partial blame... they went back to their partner knowing there is a high chance that they might be abused again and they took that risk. yes i know they can be scared, and me loving my partner unconditionally i know that its very difficult to stay away from someone you love even if they caused you lots of pain. but the thing is if you go back to an area you know has a high chance of harming you again then you are at partial fault.

does it mean you should be punished? no, does it mean people should look down on you? no... all im saying is that you do have blame on your self but all punishments and judgements should be placed on the abuser. if you demand that you be helped, and they you be treated special because you are abused thats where i draw the line. if i see someone in need of help or asking for help, ill help. if i see someone demanding that/trying to shame me till i give them money, or if i give them money and they are ungrateful then thats where i completely refuse to help unless they are still in danger of that partner they are with, but if that partner is behind bars and you treat me like that then get lost.
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"I dont know much about the Armenian genocide so i cant make any judgement here (we only covered jewish and muslim genocides in school)"
I'm not gonna ask you about those, I think.
was just pointing out that my school has gaps in their "education" and exclude information possibly on purpose (i hear all the time that many people try to cover up the armenian genocide so i feel the school might be trying to do that indirectly by not teaching it) and surprisingly/most likely not what you expected, i actually feel that all that stuff was wrong (the german people should have never given up their guns and fallen for those lies though, and with the crusades well... that was an invasion from a technologically superior force so i feel they have no fault for that genocide (completely siding with the Muslims here with my current knowledge on the crusades))
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As for the pedestrian yes they do take some blame for not checking again. but this is a innocent enough mistake that i wouldnt really judge that much. i'd expect the drunk driver to pay/work for all medical costs.
now depending on the exact situation, and if the person's personality is if i'd want to help them out at all (in the car incident they would have my full support in most situations)
Just... no, dude.
once again the person who stepped out shouldn't be punished, or looked down upon it's a simple understandable mistake. the driver takes partially full responsibility and i feel that probation/rehab/paying for medical fees is the furthest the "punishment" should go since both are kinda victims in this situation.

if you do something that leads to something else then you are part of the reason that happened. if you didnt walk it would have never happened. it's a very simple thing to understand and i dont really know any simpler way to explain it.

(it might be due to you possibly thinking that the word "blame/blaming" is a super negative thing when in reality all it means is that they take some responsibility/take part in why something happened. i am no way looking down on victims for what happened to them, but if they start to negatively effect me then thats where they are doing something wrong)
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well in that section if what you say is true they are incorrect. but it doesnt matter men or women they can both fight for whats right (though considering that women usually have barely any rights in those countries, i'd mostly blame the men)
That's just more victim blaming.
the victims here are the women, children, and those who arent working. the men at this time had complete control of the country (excluding the influence from the US, and Russia but in numbers they could have fought that off without violence). they could have worked together, and kept their country strong but instead they just couldnt work together. "luckily" (though not really lucky, since well.. no rights plus oppression from the men) women had no control over this so they get pretty much no blame.
Are you comparing refugees who are fleeing persecution to some hypothetical oil company that spilled thousands of gallons of oil into the ocean? Wow.
well there are issues there that they let happen by not working together (ignoring a leaking pipe) which lead to their government falling, weakness, and being invaded due to weakness (pipes giving away spilling oil)

they arent completely to blame for this but they should have worked alot harder to hold onto their land, and shouldnt be rushing over here. though the people who pushed for the wars in the middle east should be the ones paying extra to fix this mess.
This is what they should have done:
Spoiler: show
pretty much my whole idea is that they should have worked together to form armed fighting forces from normal civilians to protect them selves, and then work on rules/laws to restore order. (and also expose the US's influence in their country) its not that difficult if you are able to work with other people, and if your views didnt promote oppression/hate (allow women to work on their own and have equal protection under the law, allows gays/lesbians to be around unharmed, ignore race though they already do a great job at this since race stereotypes dont reach out there) after that you could form a stable society, and hell all ISIS got is a few coldwar tanks, and artillery pieces so with correct relations with another country you could get them taken out easily. though one thing you have got to have is a wall/perimeter, last thing you want is some ISIS personnel sneaking into your city/town causing issues.


though since that ^^^^ isnt really an option anymore since there is no where safe there they will need assistance from other countries. my best idea would be to create the "safezones" that trump talked about several months back, though to make sure they are cared for and not abused we should throw some UN personnel out there. while keeping them safe help them reform a proper government and teach them how to use it, and give the reasonable ones some basic weaponry, and training to help fight off ISIS.
i am mostly fine with my taxdollars going towards ammo/bombs to wipe out ISIS, and safezones in their countries i just dont want them in my country skipping line into the US, taking up room, taking up jobs for the ones that actually start working (im kinda mixed feelings about this one though), pushing for sharia law, etc.

Pretty much everything im saying in reference to refugees is that unless they are able to provide a rare service (engineers, doctors, PhDs), or open up more jobs (iv seen many middle eastern restaurants/stores and im completely fine with them being here) i dont want them in "my" country to be taking up space, or taking up jobs. i also expect them to be fixing their own country instead since they didnt hold out strong enough but since the US messed with them i feel that some people here need to provide support (like hillary if what i hear is true, and hell she has tons of money, likely enough for many guns/rockets) i am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them clean up their country because that mess is a threat to us all, but i am not fine with my tax dollars going towards giving them a place in the US.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 02, 2017, 12:05:09 pm
If I had lost a son due to a hurry up job that wasn't really neccessary I fear I
would have told Trump off when he arrived to watch my son's body unloaded
from a plane. Our leaders need to know that just because they have the
right to put our sons and daughters at risk, we don't have to tell them it's
okay. Especially if it was political.

If Trump is going to jump on someone it should be the skipper of
that navy ship that dumped over 1000 gallons of oil into a Japanese
harbor. I suppose he did it to allow the ship to unground. He should
have waited till a tanker arrived to off load the oil.

Perhaps the skipper felt the ship was at risk and dumped the oil
for that reason, but Navy ships have water tight doors to seal off
sections of the ship. I think it's likely the skipper over reacted in
a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on February 02, 2017, 09:47:39 pm
Trump continues to alienate allies. Now that he has a religious ban in place he is further blurring the line between church and state. His latest proclamation allows churches and christian organizations to promote political candidates.

177 days before impeachment.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on February 03, 2017, 08:09:27 am
Now that he has a religious ban in place
Incorrect. All immigration from the 7 is banned. Also, may we note that Obama picked the 7? All Trump did is pull the trigger on the 90 day, TEMPORARY ban
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 04, 2017, 12:31:55 am
Now that he has a religious ban in place
Incorrect. All immigration from the 7 is banned. Also, may we note that Obama picked the 7? All Trump did is pull the trigger on the 90 day, TEMPORARY ban

yep this is pretty true also... like i said it really doesnt seem like its a muslim ban
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 04, 2017, 11:24:01 am
It may not directly state it's to ban Muslims, but how come he is letting
Christians from those countries travel here? Looks like a religious
test to me. Banning for religious beliefs is unconstitutional, but
Trump doesn't seem to care about the constitution unless he agrees
with it.

A republican federal judge stayed his travel ban by the way. Trump called
it a terrible decisian, and is pressing for an emergency appeal to over
turn the judges stay.



Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 04, 2017, 10:40:48 pm
well its been a very long time since iv heard of Christian terrorist... hell the only thing i can think of would be that one random shooting at the church but that guy likely did that out of racism/hate for those people due to the long history the south has of being racist, but not out of religion (when ever i see "Muslim" terrorists i always hear for Allah so it does seem to be their religion motivating them.

i still disagree with refugees since of other reason. but imo the christian ones seem like less of a threat.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Loc on February 05, 2017, 06:50:59 am
A lot of anti-abortion killings and terrorism are linked to Christianity, such as the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting, which was in 2015. And that is hardly the only time PP has been shot up or outright bombed by Christians. I'm calling crap on "It's been a long time". Then you have the KKK, who have a strong Protestant background.

The Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting? Done by a Christian.. The Centennial Olympic Park bombing? Done by a Christian. A Christian who had ALREADY carried out terrorist acts before in the name of God. Want me to go on? These people ALL thought they were doing God's work. I can find more examples if you want, but I hope that you can understand the point I'm driving at here. Although I feel you will ignore it.

The simple fact is that Muslims carry out less than 10% of all terrorist attacks (source:https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005#terror_05sum). But when a Christian attacks someone, they are labelled by the media as "mentally ill" and "needing help". But a Muslim is straight up slapped as a terrorist.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 05, 2017, 10:42:25 am
well the "its been a long time" thing is kinda true since i my self havent heard of that many lately (been too distracted with issues in my personal life in the past, and most of my judgements are based on things i see happening currently which just so happens to be majority islamic)

"Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church shooting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting)" it is still an act of terrorism, it doesnt matter who it's done by, what matters is the reason, from what the wiki says it was "politically" motivated b/c he was unable to find a job and he was going to lose his food stamps. as for the "Centennial Olympic Park bombing" plus "Colorado springs shooting" that is done by a christian but from what i read about them they hate is abortion which imo isnt so much of a religious motivated issue but more of a moral issue (i am completely atheist plus disapprove of the idea of god but even i am slightly against abortion in certain conditions) they might be saying they are doing it in the name of god since in their religious beliefs killing is wrong (which they believe people are killing babies) though i guess this is still technically a religious motivation...
(so from what i know first one wasn't religious motivated, and the 2nd/3rd ones technically are)

looked at that link you gave me and alot of them seem to be communism (not too many injuries/deaths), jewish motives (this was unexpected, and again not many injuries/deaths), then environmental (though dont see anyone injured/killed), a few random incidents with injuries/deaths (cults), then middle eastern terrorism that seems to have the most injuries/deaths. so imo the islamic ones are still worse than any of those, and imo they are all "mentally ill" people who could use help, and they are all terrorists.

dont really need you to go on since i get your point, but it is already a thought in my mind that most religions are bad, i just see more larger things from Islam which is why i have the most dislike for them (so just statistically they seem to cause the most extensive damage in terms of religion) though like i said all the ones over abortion are kinda in a gray zone to me (and i still see the highest death/injury toll from Islamic terrorism)

"Although I feel you will ignore it"- this just seems a little hostile to me.. unlike what you or whoever else might believe I'm not just some idiot who ignores facts, and tries to support/attack whatever for a random reason... hell i hold pretty much no bias towards any groups since i don't fit in where ever i go. i dont even have any negative experiences with any group so i got no reason to hate any ideas based on emotion. everything i say/suggest is based on what iv seen, and what iv heard (though this may lead to me "hating" an idea, due to how illogical, or unfair it is) im just making judgements solely on the ideas that people come up with, suggest, or use; and nothing against the actual people (which from the evidence provided to me religion, refugees, illegals, foreign aid, consumerism, etc. are all bad ideas)

the closest thing to bias i got would be towards my self, or my partner but even i have limits on those. but those give me no reason to support any of the groups i talk about.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 05, 2017, 11:59:47 am
As long as Trump follows the constitution I won't fuss too much. This Travel
ban, and he called it a ban more than once. has been called into question
by several federal judges. Trump turns around and starts making rude
remarks about them and their discians. I suppose we can just say that's
normal for Trump. Do we really want our young people to think lit's okay
to be rude to others just because you don't agree with them? I think not.

A president is a leader, and should be looked up to as a honest upstanding
individual. Not someone who acts like a undisciplined spoiled child.

I think history has shown all religious have spawned groups who have
been involved in terrorisim. So let's not point to any we might feel
are innocent. Religions like the humans who created them are not
perfect, and are misused by bad people who hate those who look and
act different than the believers.

Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 05, 2017, 12:53:21 pm
As long as Trump follows the constitution I won't fuss too much.
 This Travelban, and he called it a ban more than once.
biggest issue i see is that people are always claiming its a religion ban when from what iv heard it is a ban of several countries and not religion. even obama considered those high risk and the ones listed during obama's presidency are the ones banned.
has been called into question by several federal judges. Trump turns around and starts making rude
remarks about them and their discians. I suppose we can just say that's normal for Trump.
as for trump being rude that can be a good thing but is also a bad thing for a leader. good thing is it makes things go a little quicker, but it isnt really something we should have as a leader due to the possibility that it could just lead to a bad habit.
Do we really want our young people to think lit's okay
to be rude to others just because you don't agree with them? I think not.
as for the young well thats the parent and community's job, and iv used this same argument against the "protesters." hell trump says stuff often usually just insults, and swearing but this is just one person. now look at the protesters... constantly chanting swears, having signs saying the same thing, sometimes having inappropriate drawings on shirts/signs, chanting other stuff, etc. hell iv been seeing children chanting swears too, and im pretty sure they didnt learn this from trump. If anything all this rudeness and risk for our young is coming from the "left" not from trump or the right.

they are both bad influences but the "left" is in far more numbers/concentrations and is causing more harm than trump. when ever i see a child or teen yelling that stuff against trump, or destroying stuff it just makes me lose a little hope in our next generation and fear they they are going to grow up rude, or even worse growing up taking those masked rioters as role models. atm im just waiting for these "protests" to start appearing in my city.. first San Francisco (even a kid i know in high school is going up there) then the riots at UC Berkeley. im really surprised that they haven't popped up here yet...
A president is a leader, and should be looked up to as a honest upstanding individual.
 Not someone who acts like a undisciplined spoiled child.
and yes the president should be like that but people like that are rare to come by. trump isnt perfect but at least he's getting stuff done
I think history has shown all religious have created groups who have been involved in terrorism. So let's not point to any you might feel are innocent.
 Religions like the humans who created them are not perfect, and are misused by bad people who hate those look and act different than the believers.
from my point of view it seems as if most religions have gotten over their kill everyone phase due to religion's introduction to modern technologies/society structure. its likely due to this same reason that there are civilized Muslims out there. though these refugees do not come from civilized areas so i feel that anyone older than a child is a risk due to already growing up and developing in an area like that, only way i can think of how to help them would be trying to pick out the ones who act correctly, or have extensive therapy and other help to fix what the uncivilized society and religion did to them. the children on the other hand are helpable.

hell to me is seems like most religions have that violent, and hateful stuff in them from their holy book. though due to the demands of a modern society anything like "kill those who dont believe, kill the gays, sell your daughter, etc." is no longer believed because it just wouldn't work. there is also that advanced technology means more time thinking less time trying to survive, leading to people realizing how ridiculous having to killing someone because they fell in love of someone the same gender is, and all that other stuff.
 
pretty much what im saying is that a primitive/uncivilized society plus religion can lead to a very bad outcome, while a modern/civilized society plus religion should be mostly fine.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Dusty on February 06, 2017, 05:23:51 am
this is what they should be but that is not what they are. everyone uses rhetoric in US elections, not sure about australian elections but over here its nothing but rhetoric and talk. 

If that's the case, don't vote for the candidates who just use rhetoric and spew rubbish.

Quote
once again i dont agree too much on the wall, but i still dont see much xenophobia about it. it might not be significant but the wall will likely help quite a bit (though the real issue is that we need to start deporting the people who overstay visas.

I've explained it multiple times. It seems that you might be beginning to agree with me, as you're conceding that you do seem to correctly identify that the wall is at least a little xenophobic.

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iv seen his twitter and imo its not that bad, seems like he just likes to talk. imo i'd say that some "feminist" or "liberal" twitter pages iv seen had worse stuff than trump.

No. This is a man that's supposed to be the leader of a world superpower. That's infinitely worse than some other personality ranting on Twitter. He goes about threatening the courts and badmouthing other countries, potentially causing international incidents in 140 characters or less. The bar for him is set far higher than it is for some internet feminist, and he often sinks much lower anyway.

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well first thing would be to raise your children to not believe in that stuff (i am sure that there are many refugees that have family member in those groups, though this doesnt apply to all) another thing is to stay alert to your surroundings which isnt too difficult (unless they are lacking food/water but if they are lacking food/water thats a bad place to have settled) if you see a bunch of people with guns heading towards your town then maybe that isnt a good sign? as for fighting back there are guns all over the place over there, hell i read a news article awhile back that some people uncovered boxes filled with STG 44s (its old but those were nice rifles) and again if you dont have supplies to fight im pretty sure that turkey would be happy to have more soldiers. also there are some early signs on if someone is a threat. do they talk about you going to hell all the time? possible threat. do they talk about god/Allah like they/their teachings are more important than a person? possible threat. do they talk about infidels? this is a stereotype but in many isis videos i hear them say that alot so if you hear anyone even mention that word then its a possible threat. do they sacrifice animals? possible threat. there are likely more ways to find one but i dont live there so i cant point them out. these are just guesses so im not too sure how they would work so if they dont work then the getting help from turkey idea might be the best.

It's staggering when I see people from western countries explain to people in small, isolated second- or third-world communities how they'd avert the crises these people have endured. What do you think these people do when they see heavily armed insurgents rock up at their town hall? They run. They're not trained to use guns; they're not violent; they're not fighters, nor are they soldiers. They're farmers and people who run their own little businesses within their community and make a living doing their thing. Your insistence that these people should go join some army after witnessing gross acts of mass violence doesn't make you look compassionate; it makes you look like you don't want to understand what these people are going through and just call them wusses.

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once i start working im going to be paying tax. not paying tax right now, but i will be later and it takes time to change laws so i'd rather push for this before i need to start paying. also i'm tired of having other people who dont want to give their money waste their money on this stuff.

But you don't pay taxes.

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if their suffering bothers/concerns you thats the definition of compassion. "sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others:" though some/many of us got our own survival/lives to worry about. also getting helped and not offering any help in turn likely means you are a burden... (again what is going on in Europe is a good example of a burden)

But you just tell them to get out, go back home and fight violent religious fanatics that've wiped out entire townships and buried them in mass graves.

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and if the regular people worked with the rich to improve things then maybe the countries wouldnt have "fallen."

Er... so what does working with the rich mean, according to you? Do you want them to become indentured servants or something?

Quote
again the way i feel falls in line with the definition of compassionate. i dont like the fact either but war, suffering, and death do happen and we need to be more resilient to it. the next thing is just telling people to be grateful for the help they receive if they aren't strong about it which is something that i havent really seen (again Europe as an example) the only thing im "demanding" here is that they be a decent individual, which i have the right to refuse helping if they arent even grateful for it. weakness to these things is kinda a bad thing since your chances of survival are lowered by it, but its not something that i view as a major issue, its not being grateful, or payingback/helping that is the problem.

The vast majority of them are decent individuals. I don't see how you're being understanding and compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich and can speak some language that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient.

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all im saying here is that ill not bother anyone, and be a decent human, so i dont see why you are surprised/weirded out by it (or at least thats what i felt your reply was expressing)

I'm saying that you comparing the situation you described and what some of the refugess have experienced is kinda... gross, to be honest. Seriously, your dog?

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when i said not even 10 i mean age<10 hell iv seen babies, toddlers, etc. if you hear bombs, and gunfire in the distance maybe then is not the best time to have a child. and from personal experience explosives can be heard from a very long/far distance so you have tons of time to know things arent going well.

Do you think those people should've put their lives on hold years before ISIS rolled through their town?

I'm not going to respond to the whole black people thing because I'm just... tired, and it's irrelevant to this thread.

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That's why I said partial blame... they went back to their partner knowing there is a high chance that they might be abused again and they took that risk. yes i know they can be scared, and me loving my partner unconditionally i know that its very difficult to stay away from someone you love even if they caused you lots of pain. but the thing is if you go back to an area you know has a high chance of harming you again then you are at partial fault.

By putting blame on the victim you are taking away from the perpetrator's autonomy and ability to make their own decisions and placing that on the victim. Do you understand why that might be the wrong thing to do?

Quote
does it mean you should be punished? no, does it mean people should look down on you? no... all im saying is that you do have blame on your self but all punishments and judgements should be placed on the abuser. if you demand that you be helped, and they you be treated special because you are abused thats where i draw the line. if i see someone in need of help or asking for help, ill help. if i see someone demanding that/trying to shame me till i give them money, or if i give them money and they are ungrateful then thats where i completely refuse to help unless they are still in danger of that partner they are with, but if that partner is behind bars and you treat me like that then get lost.

You're saying that someone who goes back to their abusive partner at least somewhat deserves any beatings they get because they are to blame for their own abuse.

Quote
(it might be due to you possibly thinking that the word "blame/blaming" is a super negative thing when in reality all it means is that they take some responsibility/take part in why something happened. i am no way looking down on victims for what happened to them, but if they start to negatively effect me then thats where they are doing something wrong)

So you think a victim of domestic violence should take responsibility for their partner's choice to beat the tar out of them?

Quote
the victims here are the women, children, and those who arent working. the men at this time had complete control of the country (excluding the influence from the US, and Russia but in numbers they could have fought that off without violence). they could have worked together, and kept their country strong but instead they just couldnt work together. "luckily" (though not really lucky, since well.. no rights plus oppression from the men) women had no control over this so they get pretty much no blame.

What do you mean, they couldn't work together? I'm not sure what you're taking about here. And why is the average guy who works on a farm or fixes up cars or whatever to blame?

Quote
they arent completely to blame for this but they should have worked alot harder to hold onto their land, and shouldnt be rushing over here. though the people who pushed for the wars in the middle east should be the ones paying extra to fix this mess.

Like the United States?

Quote
This is what they should have done:
Spoiler: show
pretty much my whole idea is that they should have worked together to form armed fighting forces from normal civilians to protect them selves, and then work on rules/laws to restore order. (and also expose the US's influence in their country) its not that difficult if you are able to work with other people, and if your views didnt promote oppression/hate (allow women to work on their own and have equal protection under the law, allows gays/lesbians to be around unharmed, ignore race though they already do a great job at this since race stereotypes dont reach out there) after that you could form a stable society, and hell all ISIS got is a few coldwar tanks, and artillery pieces so with correct relations with another country you could get them taken out easily. though one thing you have got to have is a wall/perimeter, last thing you want is some ISIS personnel sneaking into your city/town causing issues.


I'm not sure of the relevancy.

Additionally, didn't Trump ask Rudy Giuliani about how he might be able to legally implement a Muslim ban (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally)?
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: GrayWolf448 on February 06, 2017, 08:57:42 am
-----If that's the case, don't vote for the candidates who just use rhetoric and spew rubbish.
sad thing is that just doesnt exist, all iv been seeing in the 3 elections i was old enough to understand what is going on was rhetoric.
-----I've explained it multiple times. It seems that you might be beginning to agree with me, as you're conceding that you do seem to correctly identify that the wall is at least a little xenophobic.
its a tiny bit xenophobic but i'd say its a xenophobic as keeping my door locked at night, or putting a fence around my house.
-----No. This is a man that's supposed to be the leader of a world superpower. That's infinitely worse than some other personality ranting on Twitter. He goes about threatening the courts and badmouthing other countries, potentially causing international incidents in 140 characters or less. The bar for him is set far higher than it is for some internet feminist, and he often sinks much lower anyway.
ever since he won the stuff seems to be more appropriate though i do agree before the victory he was going pretty far. iv seen the same stuff from hillary too.
-----It's staggering when I see people from western countries explain to people in small, isolated second- or third-world communities how they'd avert the crises these people have endured. What do you think these people do when they see heavily armed insurgents rock up at their town hall? They run. They're not trained to use guns; they're not violent; they're not fighters, nor are they soldiers. They're farmers and people who run their own little businesses within their community and make a living doing their thing. Your insistence that these people should go join some army after witnessing gross acts of mass violence doesn't make you look compassionate; it makes you look like you don't want to understand what these people are going through and just call them wusses.
(this is a little irrelevant but they arent that heavily armed) now the thing is that they should keep an eye out so they can be read before they arrive, and dont run. as for not being trained with guns... those things are far to easy to use, hell i was hitting targets on my first time of using one, its very simple. also there are likely a few people who have a hunting rifle. as for them not being violent why dont we just ask some animal protection organizations... seen some videos of really messed up stuff that happens there. im pretty sure they are completely fine with seeing animals brutally killed, so there isnt really any difference in a human (hell if anything it should be harder to see an animal die, than a human who is trying to kill your whole town)
-----But you don't pay taxes.
not right now, but i want to get this done before any of my money goes to waste there.. also other people are paying taxes...
-----But you just tell them to get out, go back home and fight violent religious fanatics that've wiped out entire townships and buried them in mass graves.
because there is no room here, and if they force there way in here then my country might fall into pieces (look at all the riots, thats already happening) also maybe try actually fighting back (most of the videos iv seen are just people lined up to get executed, why not actually try to fight instead of just sitting there till you get killed?)
-----Er... so what does working with the rich mean, according to you? Do you want them to become indentured servants or something?
peacefully protesting, voting for someone who can run the country (they had a democracy for a few years), coming up with ways to improve the country, fighting corruption in the government, etc. the rich were the people in higher up jobs who provided useful services but the people as a whole need to work together for the society to function.
-----The vast majority of them are decent individuals. I don't see how you're being understanding and compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich and can speak some language that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient.
refugee camps in Europe are getting burned down by refugees no one stops them=barely anyone decent, most seem to demand they be taken in=barely anyone decent, throwing stuff at trucks/cars in Europe and no one stopping them=barely anyone decent. a decent person would put out the fire or attack the person trying to set the fire, ask to be let in but not throw a fit when not, stop people from throwing stuff at vehicles, etc. there are more examples here that i can find/think of though these should be enough. I never said they had to be rich... i never said that they have to speak English.. i dont understand the "that was irrelevant to their former life is automatically a career welfare recipient. " part though.
Spoiler: show
if what you mean is that "i dont see how you're being compassionate if you think that anyone who isn't rich or speaks English is a welfare recipient" then that doesnt really have anything to do with being compassionate.. but the thing is if thats what you mean that is pretty true. many of the people who come here are able to get here and live here due to our tax dollars

-----I'm saying that you comparing the situation you described and what some of the refugees have experienced is kinda... gross, to be honest. Seriously, your dog?
well my situation is pretty bad. these people seem willing enough to continue living, and even travel a long distance to survive and im pretty sure that many of them lost everything, then there is me where im barely holding onto the want to live, so yes i do feel im dealing with more pain than them. losing your will to live is likely the largest sign of someone's situation being the worst it can get. I don't really know what you mean by "seriously, your dog?" what about him?
-----Do you think those people should've put their lives on hold years before ISIS rolled through their town?
yes i do believe that they should have put their lives on hold. in my opinion its far better for them to have done that than to have their children put through what is going on right now. hell that should be classed as child abuse since they knowingly had a child while they knew things were getting pretty bad. if things aren't going so well, stop having children... they just slow you down unless you raise one correctly, and you are bringing another human into the mess you are dealing with
-----I'm not going to respond to the whole black people thing because I'm just... tired, and it's irrelevant to this thread.
to tell the truth it is a major thing people mentioned in this election and is relevant but alright then... we'll end it here.
By putting blame on the victim you are taking away from the perpetrator's autonomy and ability to make their own decisions and placing that on the victim. Do you understand why that might be the wrong thing to do?
putting blame on the victim in no way makes the abuser and more innocent. they made the decision to attack the person they are at fault and some action should happen to prevent it from happening again. but the victim still did something that lead to their own injury therefor are part of the cause. i see nothing wrong with it, i only consider it wrong if the victim is punished, or severely judged for their decision.
-----You're saying that someone who goes back to their abusive partner at least somewhat deserves any beatings they get because they are to blame for their own abuse.
they in no way deserve it to happen, but they had it coming... (there is a difference between those two) they knew doing something would lead to getting injured and they did it.
So you think a victim of domestic violence should take responsibility for their partner's choice to beat the tar out of them?
they dont take responsibility of their partner but they take responsibility of the event happening. if they never went back it would have never happened.
-----What do you mean, they couldn't work together? I'm not sure what you're taking about here. And why is the average guy who works on a farm or fixes up cars or whatever to blame?
they could come up with laws, they could enforce them, they could treat people equally, stuff like that. and they are to blame because many likely didnt work hard enough to do that stuff. and really farmers, mechanics, etc. can do alot if they work together. the working class is quite possibly the strongest class out there, they just need to work together to overthrow what they dislike which clearly didnt happen because things are a mess over there.
-----Like the United States?
not the united states in whole but the people who wanted the war so.... Hillary.... i had no part in those wars, many people had no part in those wars and didnt even want them yet the people in charge pushed for them (though the people who voted for those people are responsible too) but the way people are trying to fix it now (letting in refugees) is having a negative effect on me and many others so they are just doing it wrong (and if feel trump is fixing that issue to a certain extent)
pretty much what im saying here is those who pushed for the wars to happen are the ones who should pay not me or the people who didnt want the wars and tried to protest against them.
-----I'm not sure of the relevancy.
the relevancy is that this is something that they could have done to improve their country and might have prevented it from being weak enough to be invaded. it is kinda irrelevant now though because they didnt do this, im just saying how they could have done stuff.
-----Additionally, didn't Trump ask Rudy Giuliani about how he might be able to legally implement a Muslim ban (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally)?
he might have done that (i dont see any hard evidence of him asking that though, and people have just made stuff up about trump) but the current ban is not due to religion, it's because those are areas marked by obama as high risk, and just to stop these refugees from flooding into our country so they dont ruin it for us.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 07, 2017, 01:56:06 pm
Let's not to be rude to other members. I know politics can get us stired up,
but lets try to be civil with each other. I am not pointing at anyone. It's just
a heads up.

If you find a story about someone making threats of violence, be they in demonstrations
or individuals. Please post a link to it instead of relating it here. 

It seems some people have a hard time expressing their discontent without using
bad language or violence. This is a family forum with young people looking in.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Sergalicious on February 16, 2017, 04:26:37 am
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on February 16, 2017, 10:34:37 am
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)

If I had to choose between two evils, I'd rather get rid of Trump.  >:( The guy is a habitual liar and has absolutely no experience whatsoever with politics. He seems to do all his running of this country from tweets on his phone. That is not the proper way to run a country.  >:(
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 16, 2017, 11:24:43 am
i have a question, is it even a good idea to try to impeach trump? because then we just end up with pence who i consider worse. (im not taking either side here, im just saying)

If I had to choose between two evils, I'd rather get rid of Trump.  >:( The guy is a habitual liar and has absolutely no experience whatsoever with politics. He seems to do all his running of this country from tweets on his phone. That is not the proper way to run a country.  >:(

As much as I disapprove of our sneaky Vice President I think he would be
better than Trump. He is someone who is thoughtful, and slow to anger.
Trump on the other hand is a pathological liar and is dangerous, and 
possibly beholding to Russias Putin.

Perhaps the Trumps VP lacky has been pulled into Trumps circle so
far he might be impeachable too.. Of course then we get the Majority
leader of the house. Not to my liking either, but better than Trump
or his VP.

People voted for Trump wanting change, but the left the house and
senate in the hands of the GOP. I thought that was rather strange after
everything they didn't do over the past 6 years.

Let's vote to change the house, and senate in 2018. That's the best
idea.  :orbunny:
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on February 17, 2017, 12:02:21 pm
Do you want to be an ambassador for the USA. If you have
something the Trump family wants, they might give you one.

Turns out one of Trumps kids is wanting to buy a baseball team
and offered the owner a amassadorship to France if he would give
them a good deal.

The old pay for play bit. Trump accused the Clintons of this in his
campaign. Seems Trump is a hypocrite as well as a lier.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on April 06, 2017, 09:51:00 pm
Welp. After his strike on Syria, I am now no longer a Trump supporter. I've had enough of globalists, I hoped he was actually going to do America first
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on April 06, 2017, 10:57:58 pm
It'll be interesting to read the news tomorrow morning. I'll be especially curious to read the opinions and reactions from the Syrian President as well as the Russian gov't about the U.S. Tomahawk missile strike in Syria.

A few links to get started:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/donald-trump-syria-military/index.html

Edit:  And I'm just now learning and reading that Russian personnel may have been at some of the places that were attacked. This may not bode well for U.S./Russian relations.  :o Putin is gonna be pissed.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on April 06, 2017, 11:10:32 pm
China is also backing Syria. I hear they were even sending some advisors to help Assad
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on April 06, 2017, 11:34:15 pm
China is also backing Syria. I hear they were even sending some advisors to help Assad

Even if that's true, I wouldn't be surprised by it. China and Russia have a very long history of selling weapons and sending "advisors" to countries they support.


Another thought that comes to mind is if Trump is using this "attack" as a means to regain some of his popularity and support. I've read a few articles in the last few weeks where Trump's approval ratings were dropping like a lead brick. By starting this attack, he, and fellow Republicans, may use it to their advantage to try and gain support from the American people. Trump doesn't like to lose or seem weak, so now he's trying to act tough to appease his supporters. And at the same time that he's spin doctoring this attack, he'll also spin doctor some story to blame the Democrats that they were too weak and should have done more in Syria.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on April 07, 2017, 12:48:51 am
If it is a PR move, it sure backfired on me. I no longer support him. Same old globalist garbage
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on April 07, 2017, 12:48:43 pm
It seems when people get in the white house they think they should police the
world. Sure it was bad about what happened to the people in Syeria, but if we
go after every bad leader in the world we would bankrupt the nation and the
military. 

This kind of action only causes more problems with countries like China and
Russia, and Iran, not counting North Korea. We should set a good example for
the rest of the world, not try to run it.

It is possible Trump felt this would help him in the polls, but I have already
talked to one supporter who wasn't sure he does any more.  Trump campaigned
that he wasn't going to get involved with other countries wars, but there he is
dragging us into another one.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on April 08, 2017, 05:16:13 pm
It is possible Trump felt this would help him in the polls, but I have already
talked to one supporter who wasn't sure he does any more. 
Make that two
Oh, and we already are bankrupt, they're just kicking the can down the road like every other Presidency and making the hit harder
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Iara Warriorfeather on April 08, 2017, 11:22:46 pm
Trump campaigned that he wasn't going to get involved with other countries wars, but there he is dragging us into another one.

I saw this coming miles away. WWIII, anyone?  :P  >:(  x_x
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on April 09, 2017, 11:05:03 am
Trump is the seventh president in a row that has attacked another
country, starting with president Carter in Iran who was a democrat.

Also his idea of a wall betwwen Mexico and the USA. One thing that hasn't
been talked about. Is how the Wall will affect wildlife by blocking natural
 migration routes. Sure birds can floy over it, but the rest will be blocked
like the Gray Wolf, Cougars, White tailed deer, and others. Trump and many i
n the GOP care litttle for the environment or wildlife.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocco on April 17, 2017, 02:02:37 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

WOW! Who would have ever guessed the sarin attack was a rebel false flag that the POTUS exploited for political points.
I get so sick and tired of globalist President after globalist President.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on April 18, 2017, 12:50:19 pm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mit-expert-claims-latest-chemical-100819428.html

WOW! Who would have ever guessed the sarin attack was a rebel false flag that the POTUS exploited for political points.
I get so sick and tired of globalist President after globalist President.

Yes it seems everyone who is elected as president feels they have
to run the world. We should set an example for the world by using
deplomacy rather than bombs. There will always be bad people who
hurt the innocent. Instead of bombing the bad guys discredit them
and their authority by talking the rest of humanity to not deal with
them. Practically all dictators are greedy people who want to
sit back and have others bow to their will and do all the work.

Some in our government have been guilty of jumping into conflicts
because they fear change. Bad ideas rarely last, so we shouldn't
try to force other people to follow our ideals.

Sometimes I feel it's the rich that push us into war. I think they fear
loosing control of the country for their own benifit. The majority of
the people haven't enough money to worry about it. They just want
to have a decent life and family.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Kobuk on April 24, 2017, 07:38:37 pm
Over the course of Trump's entire Presidential election campaign as well as the weeks and months after becoming President, I've heard him say that he was going to create or has created "millions" of new jobs in the U.S.

Yeah, right.  :P

How can he possibly say that when at the same time, I've been reading news story after news story recently about how hundreds of retail stores are closing and tens of thousands (or more) of workers will be without a job. Need proof? Just go to any news source like CNN, FOX, Wall Street Journal, MSNBC, etc., etc. and you're bound to come across some news story about more brick and mortar retail stores that are closing recently.

Rue21 stores are closing.
Kmart stores are closing.
hh gregg stores are closing.
Macy's stores are closing.
JC Penny stores are closing.
Sears stores are closing.
And the list goes on and on and on and on and...........

So where the hell does Trump get this hairbrained idea that he'll be able to create millions of jobs? Where are the people who lost their jobs in brick and mortar retail stores supposed to go? Where are they going to find a new jobs?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/22/news/credit-suisse-retail/index.html
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocket T. Coyote on May 13, 2017, 02:21:28 pm
There's also the demise of the dollar menu at McDonald's. Also the decline of the small town daily newspaper.

We recall that Walmart supported passage of ACA because it would negatively impact it's competitors. Many of which are listed above. Montgomery Ward closed years earlier. Pontiac and Saturn car brands--gone along with a number of auto dealerships targeted by the previous administration. Some of these retailers made bad business decisions too. Sears once Made-In-America Craftsman brand tools and dropping the famous Sears catalog.
Several of the afore-mentioned retailers also sold firearms and ammunition until about the 1980s. Kmart stopped when Michael Moore shamed them after Bowling For Columbine was released. Since they didn't want my business, I stopped shopping there. Firearms sales have soared, but it isn't helping Sears or Penneys since they closed their gun counters.
Then came Amazon and online shopping. Why brave traffic, bad weather, crowds, surly salespeople, and risking disappointment when you can instead shop from the comfort of home? (The stuff I want is always out-of-stock it seems.)
Sales tax may have been avoided, but that gap is closing. Free shipping is often provided.

From the environmental angle, the mega-mall paves over once-productive farm land. The bright concrete reflects sunlight back into space and the dark asphalt increases atmosheric heating--from their own propaganda. We've had numerous Kmarts, Sears, Penneys and Targets close here. I know of an entire shopping mall erased from the landscape. Also several once-busy hotels shuttered. The pickle & sauerkraut cannery where I worked almost twenty years closed too. Whose fault is that? It didn't happen overnight and it won't get fixed overnight. And therein lies the problem: we expect goods and services at anytime and at once.

As for the opening comment--McDonalds has finally returned dollar any-size soft drinks for the Summer. As for the newspapers...they are the buggy whips and bustles of the 21st century IMHO.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on May 13, 2017, 05:52:13 pm
Now that the head of the FBI is finally out of a job things will start happening faster. Less than 70 days left before impeachment!!!!! I predicted he would only last 170 days in office. Now it's starting to look like I may be off by 10 or so days. But still close enough.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Rocket T. Coyote on May 20, 2017, 08:08:41 am
Despite the rants of "Mad Maxine" Waters--and others--Impeachment is not removal from office. Look at Bill Clinton.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on May 20, 2017, 11:30:17 am
Despite the rants of "Mad Maxine" Waters--and others--Impeachment is not removal from office. Look at Bill Clinton.


That's right. Impeachment is just a finding of law breaking by the house.
The actual trial for removal of a president is in the senate. Nixon resigned
when he was told the sanate would vote to remove him. Bill Clinton won
the senate vote so he stayed in office.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: cause the rat on May 20, 2017, 09:26:05 pm
Clinton lied about having sex. Trump could be lying about his involvement with an enemy of the United states. And there is the possibility of his interference with and possible repeated attempts to influence an investigating officer. I don't know about anyone else. If these actions were habitual?  I'd rather Clinton still be having and lying about sex. The implications are far less severe.

Looking forward to seeing my prediction come to pass.
Title: Re: Trump's Presidency, 2017-20??
Post by: Old Rabbit on May 21, 2017, 11:01:14 am
Trump never admits his lies, he just dances around trying to
prove them.

Trump claims he hasn't anything to do with the Russians, but his
own son n law said they borrowed money from Russian controlled
banks. Who knows how many oligarchs.

I have a hunch he owes foreign banks a lot of money, and I don't
think they will let him get off so easy. Billionaires have their own
way of doing business. I don't think they let laws or rules get in
their way if they can work around them.

That's why we need his Tax records. To see what obligations he has
around the world.