Author Topic: Reporters..  (Read 9047 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chaz_wolf

  • Hero Member
  • Ex Staff Member
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 1077
    • http://www.chazwolf.tk
Reporters..
« on: October 10, 2003, 03:33:04 pm »
Okay people I just got this from the Huston Press..

--- Craig Malisow <Craig.Malisow@houstonpress.com>
wrote:
Hi Chaz,

My name is Craig Malisow, and I'm a reporter with
the Houston Press. Kat gave me your e-mail and
suggested you may be interested in speaking to me
for a story I'd like to write about furries in the
Houston area. If you have time, could you please
reply to this e-mail or call me at (713) 280-2481?

Thanks,
Craig

-------

I have checked it out and he is for real. But I am not going to talk with him.. Anyone else want too ?

Edit to add -- He is looking for fursuiters in the Huston Area..

Chaz




When you are laying in the gutter, you can see the stars.

Email or message me to chat.
See my site = http://chaz-wolf.sytes.net

Offline Benjamin

  • the admin liger
  • Species: liger
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 3907
    • stripeymaney
Reporters..
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2003, 06:06:55 pm »
I got pretty much the same thing a few days ago. He seems pretty determined.
 
Quote
Benjamin,

My name is Craig Malisow, and I'm a reporter for the Houston Press, an alternative weekly newspaper. I'm very interested in finding out more of the Houston furry community. Yesterday, I posted some messages on several Texas furry websites, only to discover that I sent every fur in Texas into shock. Apparently, furs have been badly burned by the media in the past, and they're understandably suspicious of why I suddenly appeared.

I didn't want to make the same mistake twice and send out a bunch of e-mails on your site. Instead, I was hoping we could chat and see if there's a way you could check with Houston-area furs to see if they'd be interested in speaking with me for a story. I don't have any angle, other than to accurately portray who furries are, the origins of the furry world, and what and why you do what you do. I'm not out to poke fun or condemn. I'm just curious, and I think this story could be a good chance for those who have been burned to set the record straight.

If this sounds good to you, could you please e-mail me or call me at work at (713) 280-2481 or at home, (713) 527-0413?

Thanks,
Craig

I don't know anyone in that area that I'd want to send him to, so I told him I can't really help him out on it.
Furry fans have been told by the media before that they're trying to do well through their article, but that's a line of BS more often than not.
 
Benjamin

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2003, 11:07:32 am »
hmmm...

You guys are somewhat confusing.  After seeing how you want the world to begin to percieve furries in a more accepted way and want some of the more negative public views concerning furries to be dispelled or cleared up, I would think you would jump at the chance to be interviewed and have your words put into print for others to see.

   Sure... media people always put their own spin on something.  But the fact that they are asking for an interview means it isn't an editorial piece....meaning in the journalism world that they were told to go get quotes for the article.  So the article will not be ONLY their opinion... your words would be added.

   Which translates into you having the chance to speak your mind.  All you would have to do is make sure you watched what you said for answers and make sure ALL your answers have a positive spin on the aspects of furries you want noticed.   Simply play dumb about any question, or part there in, you think would direct you in a negative way publically.  Politician do it.  Public speakers do it too.  Need an example?

   Reporter: "I have heard that conventions are nothing but a hotel rented out for a brothel of mascot suit wearing sexual deviants.  Can you tell me anything about that?"

   Furrie brave enough to take the interview: "The conventions I have been to, in (mention state/convention name here for added publicity plug), have had a variety of things to do, like art displays, movies, games, merchandise purchasing.  I have never seen anything regarding sex advertised on convention literature or witnessed activites like what you described at conventions."

See? That answer got a convention advertised, explained positive aspects of the gathering, and promoted the idea that furries aren't all about sex.   And if the reporter is especially tenacious in trying to put that spin on things you might get another nudge such as this:

     Reporter:  "You mean to say that EVERYTHING seen in the news regarding the sexual deviency revolving around furs is a myth or falsehood?"

    Brave furrie:  "Sexual deviancy is something found in small pockets of people in all walks of life and in all sectors of society.  Just because one senator is convicted of sex crimes or sexual lewdness and makes the front page of a paper does not mean that ALL senators are engaging in that type of thing does it? *laughs*  And if it does, then I suggest you focus your questions to that group as it would be more deviant then the furry fandom.  To answer your question more directly, no sexual deviancy is not a requirement for being a furry, nor is it the norm as my experiences with meeting furs has been."


See? there are always ways to field questions in your favor when being interviewed.  If you guys are serious about wanting the public to look at furries in a kinder light and be less prejudiced towards them, then you have to jump at the opportunities like interviews.  But if you guys are only all talk when it comes to how the fandom could be better recieved in the public eye, then by all means, keep passing the buck.  Talk accomplishes nothing, action does the hard stuff.

~River





Offline Kada-Ru

  • Species: Golden Blue Pegasus
  • Member Since: 11-29-2002 Web Admin!
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 9701
    • Kaycy's Creations for Fun
Reporters..
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2003, 11:21:01 am »
The main problem, River is that the reporters are out for a story. Not the truth. It has happened time after time that a fur gives a report like you state but it won't sell so the reporters are told to 'find' someone that will be speaking with them what THEY want to hear so they can sell their wares.

Most of the fandam has realized this and won't speak because either their words get turned around or left out completely.

That is also why reporters have been banned from conventions. They don't want to write about the truth, just the smutty degrading stuff.

Since you have such a way with words, you want to talk to the reporter, River? I have told you before I like how you speak on here and since no one else is willing to speak to the reporter, you want to take a crack at it? Put a good spin on the fandom?

It could be a real experience.

Offline Benjamin

  • the admin liger
  • Species: liger
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 3907
    • stripeymaney
Reporters..
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2003, 12:03:35 pm »
I don't mind being interviewed, myself, but I don't want to have the responsibility of sending the media folks to other furs if they're looking for more localised individuals. If they don't want to be interviewed, I don't want to try to influence them to change their minds.
 
Benjamin

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2003, 12:10:12 pm »
I understand Kada, about reporters wanting to go after the most sensational story.  I used to write for the highschool and college papaers, as well as still write some editorial stuff for newspapers now and then when the mood strikes me.  No I am not a reporter, so don't freak out and ban me or anything lol.  j/k. I also wrote and gave speaches throughout highschool and college, earning a few scholarships to put myself through college along the way. Being trained to write and get things across with communication skills has helped alot in learning how to talk to people and bend interviews to the direction you want it to go.  Just a little insight into this sleek River Dragoness.

   I considered replying to the reporter myself, but I think it would do more harm then good, as I am not a furry and know next to nothing about the fandom, compared to an actual furry who has been around and participated in things enough to offer a good opinion with facts and dates to back their words up.

   But, since the guy is supposedly having trouble finding people to talk to, I really think the ball is in your (and any other fur who wants to be interviewed) court.  He NEEDS an interview.  he can't find a furry willing to talk.  That means, he will accept anyone willing to share their views of the furry fandom.  I think it should be Benjamin, WS, or someone else who can be articulate with words, has experience in the furry community, and also has the fact that they are a mod/staff here to back up their statements and add credibility.

   And think about this... if one of you more responsible and kinder smarter furs do not step up to the plate, you could wind up reading about the interview taking place with the type of fur who you DONT want answering the questions.  You know which kind I mean... the type who will only add more truth to the negative side of public eye.  And...you know reporters... if they don't get presented with a target, they will keep digging, even if it yields them the bottom of the barrel.  Which I seriously doubt you want the fur community portrayed as....

~River

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2003, 12:11:33 pm »
Oh...and just a hint from someone who used to have to dig up info and also gather it... one thing which you might want to do in order to control which type of fur talks to this guy, is withhold the phone numbers and contact info until you know the person who will be replying is the sort who will give an accurate account of furs.  Would be a shame if fox-blow (named for his numerous oral gifts in hotel rooms at any given chance) fur got the number and made an butt of himself for the reporters to gobble up and exploit more negative publicity.  Just a suggestion.

~River





Offline WhiteShepherd

  • furtopia.org Sysop!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4842
    • http://www.whiteshepherd.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2003, 12:18:41 pm »
The best one can really do is look at the reputation of the magazine and decide how reputable they are.  

A friend of mine JBadger was badly misquoted when he spoke to a reporter he knew and thought he could trust.  He spent two hours speaking to Vanity Fair reporter on charities furries helps with.  At one point the reporter asked if there was any wild sex going on?  JB explained there was sex but he did not go looking for that stuff.  He also explained that in truth it wasn't any different from other cons were individuals let off steam and sex does happen there too.

The reporter took phrases and parts of phrases and pasted them together.  Sometimes he did not directly quote.  He also completely left out any reference to the charities which was the bulk of the conversation.  When JB called the reporter apologized and said his boss kept demanding "Show me more sex!" and he was sorry.  

It "is" possible to have a good interview.  Tiger Cowboy had a pretty decent interview.   But over all most of the media is on a witch hunt to show off to white suburbia for a higher couch potato rating. More than one trusting furry has been burned.  You can't hide and I don’t think it’s fair to imply furries are being cowards or afraid to speak out. Most furs I know are VERY outspoken.  But it IS best to try and check the source before jumping forward if you have any hope at all for a semi-fair review.
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span =''><!--Quot

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2003, 12:20:02 pm »
Benjamin... I know what you mean  about not wanting to be responsible for recommending the reporter to another group or another fur.  But you could offer to do the interview anyway.  I don't think he will get much info on it otherwise, judging from his post to you.  And perhaps... (you could also bring this up as a selling point in your favor for being interviewed)... if a positive story was written highlighting the better aspects of the fur community, then furs local to his area would read it and be a bit more willing to come forward.

   Reporters are like sharks in alot of ways... they can bait to feed... but they can also be baited. : grins :  By presenting that viewpoint, you offer him a way to get his ultimate story goal accomplished, while also allowing your views concerning positive points of furries to be put into print.

Benjamin, I really think it's worth a shot.

~River

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2003, 12:35:16 pm »
WS, first, if I offended you or anyone else with my brave furry comment, I didn't mean it as an offense.  But I do want you to look at this from the following standpoint:

   You said: "I don’t think it’s fair to imply furries are being cowards or afraid to speak out. Most furs I know are VERY outspoken."

   I am not meaning cowards so much as that they are afraid to speak out.  They are, hun.  How many furs do you see on this list who can't tell their friends and closest family that they are a fur due to fear of nonacceptance or bad opinions?  How many posts on the forums deal with furs feeling alone or isolated due to having to keep their furriness hidden?  And how about the post the reporter sent to Benjamin, "Yesterday, I posted some messages on several Texas furry websites, only to discover that I sent every fur in Texas into shock. Apparently, furs have been badly burned by the media in the past, and they're understandably suspicious of why I suddenly appeared." ?

    Those three points can prove that in genreal, furs are afraid to make themselves known and discuss things with reporters.  So I don't think I was wrong in saying most furs are afraid to talk publically about it.  Now, granted, their fear may be well founded based on other's experiences or their own poor representations in an interview.  I am not saying there aren't risks when talking to anyone publically.  But Like I said before, I was calling it how I see it... I have seen alot of reluctance to speak openly where furs are concerned.

  My statement was not made to offend, only to merely point out that with all that reluctance, nothing positive about the furry community is ever going to get out there unless someone is willing to face that risk of being ridiculed.

     I understand the fur community's desire to be represented properly and without judgement.  I understand their distain for reporters who misrepresent or misquote.  But what I don't understand is the quickness that furs complain about it, but the slowness of any actions to dispel the rumors by taking an offered interview.

   Yes, by all means, check out the publication.  I certainly wouldn't recommend doing an interview with a sleezy shock value magazine like the ones lining the grocery store shelves, claiming to have gotten the scoop on the ten foot alien born last night to a three foot midget, (complete with photos too!'<img'>  But, if after checking out this guys publication, it looks like it might be worth the risk of looking similar to anyone else who has been misrepresented, then freaking go for it!

   What is the worst that could happen?  The reporter could do what has happened in the past and circulate already accepted rumors (nothing new in that).  But look at what COULD happen.... an accurate interview with the info you want out there in print.

~ River (wow this is the most I have ever posted in one day already lol)

Offline Benjamin

  • the admin liger
  • Species: liger
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 3907
    • stripeymaney
Reporters..
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2003, 12:48:48 pm »
If the local furs don't want to be represented locally in the media, I feel it necessary to respect that. I'm from Canada, a long way away from Texas, and I'd rather not prod my nose into their business.
I've been interviewed by a writer for a the newspaper of the university I had graduated from and that article went over well. I have also been interviewed by a local large scale newspaper, but it was just used to confirm the writer's internet research.
If that Texan newspaper was a national newspaper, I'd not mind being interviewed for it, but since it's a localised thing, I think it's more appropriate that he gets local furs to help him out. It would be better in the context of the local newspaper there, since it should be a feature for the locals by the locals. That sort of thing.
 
Benjamin

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2003, 01:10:15 pm »
Benjamin:

   I understand your comments.  And yes, I agree that the local furs in texas would be able to give the reporter a better interview, as they would be able to sit in front of him whereas you can't, being in Canada.  But, given the fact that so many of them seem reluctant to discuss things with a reporter due to being burned in the past, perhaps an interview with someone else (in this case using you as an example) which is presented in a fair light and positive way, would encourage them to contact the reporter for his original interview idea.  It would mean the reporter would have to do two stories... one (yours) showing positive aspects of furs, with a blurb at the end about his willingness and eagerness to speak with a local fur.  And a second one after he was contacted, when the furs see he is a fair reporter.  So he would get his local story and you would get your positve publicity.

   I really don't see a way for you to loose.... the reporter would absolutely HAVE to write a positive story in order to get local furs to talk to him, if the reason they are silent is because of mistrust.

   Anyhow, like I said, nothing positive will really get out there unless people are willing to stick their necks out and make it happen.  I just figured I would present the ideas and views I did to show that it is possible to achieve what I have seen discussed so often, but seemingly rarely tackled.... a positive news story dealing with furs.  

~River

Offline WhiteShepherd

  • furtopia.org Sysop!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4842
    • http://www.whiteshepherd.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2003, 01:28:43 pm »
Nods.. I know you were not trying to offend.  In fact I am a strong believer in fair news being the only way to dispel the opportunists.  Someone HAS to come forward you just have to be careful who you come forward to is non biased enough not to exploit.  I have been planning a possible interview with the local paper here in Xenia for example.

I did check into Mr Malisow.  He has one article that looks fairly reasonable and another that reports but seems to poke fun at the odd.  I think I’ll do a little more checking into his background before deciding.
            
http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/2003-10-09/news.html/1/index.html

I also don’t see this reporter HAVING to do a positive story.  Many reporters do not have to worry about trust if their story is a one time sensational deal for them. Like many before him he could care less how the feel “after” the article is published. Now wether that is this guys position has more review before I make my opinion.
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span =''><!--Quot

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2003, 01:57:47 pm »
WS:

   I agree that when a reporter has gotten his scoop he is often unfeeling towards the effects left in the wake of their 'sensational story'.  But you have to look at each situation on a case by case basis, much like you are in checking out his credentials and past articles.  In this case, what he wants is locals.  And in order to get that, he will need to play the game of reporting, making them comfortable enough to trust him.  It seems the most beneficial way he will do this is by gaining their trust through a positive story from an interview with a forthright fur.  Only when his locals, the people he REALLY wants, see they can trust him, will he get his scoop.  So in a way, anyone who DOES do a positive interview with him like I suggested, leading up to a second story with his locals,...will actually be besting him at his own game.  It's the old Scratch my back and I will scratch yours game.  And by the way, if his editor wants ONE story on furs, he will jump at the idea of TWO, no matter what his motives.  And the reporter... story = cash... two stories = more cash.... more exposure as a reporter.  (Don't think for a minute that this guy wants to stay reporting for a side paper... he most likely has dreams of being the next peter jennings or tom brokaw.)

   Again, let's assume the worst and best and look at it.  

Worst case, One positive story comes out of it.  A second one perhaps isn't as positive... BUT that second one would be done concerning locals... people who could file libel and misquoting complaints and suits... people who could actually shut the paper down if they wanted to and were fairly poorly represented.

Best case, two positive stories were done.  And as a bonus, the fur community will have found a reporter willing to be fair... IE someone who they could have write other articles, be they for that paper or as editorials sent to other publications.

In EITHER case, the fur community would be noted and people would find their way to furry places like this out of curiousity and other ponderings....connect with friends... and see for themselves what furriness is all about.

   No group which has ever been out of the mainstream in acceptance and public opinion has ever gotten positive remarks and consideration unless people made some noise.  And once the ball gets rolling and people become more confortable with coming forward... more and more positive things come of it.  Example?

   In the early eighties, public opinion (largely influenced by religion and media) regarded gays as the cause for AIDS and completely responsible for the spread of it.  The Gay community got together and began publically making facts known.  Which spurred the medical community to begin looking elsehwere for the cause and spread and also began to make the public look closer at the gay community and learn facts instead of myth.  In coming years, kids in school were taught that you couldn't get AIDS from sipping a cup, touching a doorknob, or shaking the hand of someone infected.  People began to be more openly accepted who were gay.  Civil rights for Gays were won....and where has this all led?...

   To the overturning of anti-sodomy laws this year.  To gay marriages being recognized as legal in some states.  To tax breaks for gay couples who are in a monogomous relationship.  To health benefits being made available to same sex partners of insured workers.  To the gay community being open enough for younger people to feel comfortable coming out of the closet, instead of living in denial, shame, or fear, as before.

But none of that would have happened if some gay men and lesbian women had not gotten the gumption to face fear of being mobbed in public, shot by zealots, fired at work, and disowned by family....(all very possible reactions and risks in the early years).... and instead made their voices heard... not only to clarify things to the public, but to make their lives better too.

    The same could happen with the fur community.  Which would mean more openness, more conventions, more attendance at those conventions (IE, not only more people feeling good enough about their choices and lifestyle to come out and enjoy life more as who they are, but also more money for you artists and writers out there, as you would sell more.)  And more importantly, there would be less sleepless nights for those who are trying to figure out how to be themselves and how to tell family and friends about how they are.  Less depression among furs... as it is terribly straining to hide who one is from others on a daily basis.

But none of that will be possible until furs begin talking....and talking alot.

~River

Offline Benjamin

  • the admin liger
  • Species: liger
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 3907
    • stripeymaney
Reporters..
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2003, 02:34:21 pm »
It's a local newspaper and I really don't think it's appropriate for an outsider to be feeding that reporter any information. I think it's up to Texan furs to deal with a Texan newspaper, so it's up to them whether or not the article gets written. Probably what they don't realise is that, interview or not, that writer may still just go out and get information from elsewhere. Until he asks me specifically for an interview, I'm not going to go out of my way. It's not my place to do so, since I'm not going to be affected locally by the fallout from such an article.
 
Benjamin

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2003, 05:35:19 pm »
Benjamin,
  I can understand where that would be reason enough for some people.  And The following is not a personal attack on yourself, but rather on the suggestion behind the "Until he asks me specifically for an interview, I'm not going to go out of my way. It's not my place to do so, since I'm not going to be affected locally by the fallout from such an article."

   Think about the following statements and see how they sound ....

    I won't share my ideal of equality with anyone beyond my local town, where it affects me.  I'll fight for my own kids and my own house, let the rest of Alabama and the south's colored population fend for itself.  It's their trouble in their town.
          ~COULD have been said by Martin Luther King, Jr.

     Peace everywhere isn't really that important.  It really only matters right where I live, since that's all I see with my own eyes.  The suffering in hamlets and cities and countries other then my own will just have to fend for themselves.

          ~COULD have been said by Ghandi

     The poor and suffering in my area matter most.  Everyone else will have to look elsewhere for help.  I will only care for a select few who directly interact with me.

          ~COULD have been said by Mother Theresa



     Now consider this....IF a "since it won't affect me directly, I won't bother with it" philosophy was adopted by these three people, think of all the good which would have been left undone.  Think of the steps we've made in society BECAUSE those people insisted on thinking of the good of ALL, instead of only those they knew or were centrally located around.


  Not taking part in something dear to your heart simply because it isn't occuring in your area, is essentially the same thing as turning your back on those people if they were face to face with you.  Think about the wording...  "Until he asks me specifically for an interview, I'm not going to go out of my way. It's not my place to do so, since I'm not going to be affected locally by the fallout from such an article."

   Yet we are a society who:

   ~Adopts and helps support foriegn children suffering in impoverished countries.  In some cases never meeting the child, as the donations go into a mass funding program.

   ~will drop everything to help push a pod of whales off a beach and into the ocean.

   ~belong to forums like this one, claiming to be a community and group of friends, talking every day or so.....


   And yet... when a talk with a reporter could help others in that community, the fact that it doesn't directly relate to an individual and impact them in particular still serves as reason enough not to help.  Guess the fur community isn't as friendly as it pretends.....it's still a very every man for himself, selfish world when it really comes down to something that counts, I suppose.

~River

Reporters..
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2003, 05:55:55 pm »
Quote
Guess the fur community isn't as friendly as it pretends


This statment is very evident. It seems like "friends" will always sway twards who ever gives them more popularity or more favors in the Fur community then actualy taking time to sit down and discuss anything of reason or even try to understand some ones oppinions. More often then not, they utterly shun and poke small jabs at outsiders for their views. Yet, Furries seem to lack the realization that THEY are the minority in the world and if they want to co-exsist, they seriously need to act as diplomats. Not one but all of them. Since the time I started asociating with Furs, I have found most if not all of the rumors about them to be very sterio typical. Not to say that they are all as the "outside world" sees them, but the vast majority are, infact.

Cold, sheltered, afraid, contradicting attitudes often portray even in the simplest of instances from many in the Furrie community and usualy it comes from those who, at first glance, seem like very nice and thoughful people. It is also a fact, Furries are out for their own sorts and rarely if at all, make any acceptions to this rule. This includes everything from friends and art to dates and who they speak with on a daily basis, yet not limited to only these. The non-Furries (According to the Furs) are the ones that are so rejecting of their society. Does this make any sence?

I think heartless arrogance would qualify as a term in this case, un rightfully so, however. I cant tell you how thin the line is between being arrogant and proud of who you are because I am blunt when I type online and I do not understand much point in being otherwise unless you have something to hide. At one time I would assume that many Furs were just blunt. I do not find this the case any longer.

Everyone is entitled to an oppinion, unless your a non-Fur within the alcoves of the fans. This also seems to be the case on many instances so I have seen in afew places.

Overly open and "cuddly". Being touchy is fine if you KNOW some one...but I find that males hugging males who arent Furs or gay/bi really will turn them away from even concidering a Fur as a friend. This offence can be taken online or off.

Reguardless of this very small sterio type list that has only included the very basic oddities, I do feel that many people, infact, DO have the right idea about Furries as they constantly proove the points of their rumored sociology to "outsiders". Still, no one should be dejected because of the mistakes others have laid for them. Unfortunate that there really arent many helpers or groups of -good- Furries out there to better the ways of the fandom. If there were, perhaps the world of FUrries would be a far better place.

Offline WhiteShepherd

  • furtopia.org Sysop!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4842
    • http://www.whiteshepherd.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2003, 09:32:39 pm »
River you make a VERY strong argument.  But you are building a argument based on a source you’ve taken completely out of context by building a chain of theories each supporting the next all based on a wrong assumption.  

From Benjamin:
Quote

If the local furs don't want to be represented locally in the media, I feel it necessary to respect that.


As this is a important issue to them he is doing what he feels is the right thing.  He is letting the locals chose what they feel is the best course of action instead of going over their head and “using” the situation.

Quote from River:
Quote

"Until he asks me specifically for an interview, I'm not going to go out of my way. It's not my place to do so, since I'm not going to be affected locally by the fallout from such an article."


I think this quote builds an argument however you imply his intent is to protect his own hide when he is trying to respect and protect others who would HAVE to deal from the fallout of his actions.
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span =''><!--Quot

Offline WhiteShepherd

  • furtopia.org Sysop!
  • *
  • Male
  • Posts: 4842
    • http://www.whiteshepherd.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2003, 09:39:02 pm »
MidnightDragon I could go on and argue point for point on your portrayal of the cold, sheltered, heartless arrogant furries that you mix a little observation here with a lot of sulking there.  Though I do believe you feel that way right now.  It wasn’t long ago you were posting or being at least civil.  Then you got your pride hurt over a rule.  Ever since then you have twisted words of staff, emotions, and even threatened  whatever it took to shift from your injured pride.  Are we staff perfect? Hell no.  But we are in charge and while HERE you have to respect that even when you disagree.  Even when staff disagree we respect each other enough to work together despite the fact of our disagreements and we know we respect each other.  All I have seen from you is you holding up your hurt pride like a public cross you were nailed too in your attempts to “poison the well” of sentiment in conversation.

From my view this was never a issue of someone being heartless, cold or uncaring to you.  You were asked to help in a nice way by changing or moving a post of yours and it hurt your pride growing from there.

In the end this can not be solved by a “who was right” argument.  If the board affects you so badly and you TRULY despise those of us on the board for our perceived actions then you should leave.
IRC quotes:

[05:01] <Kai_Misou> We cats sleep when we want and where we want.
[05:01] <WhiteShep> We dogs sleep WHEN we can. :/
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span =''><!--Quot

Offline Kada-Ru

  • Species: Golden Blue Pegasus
  • Member Since: 11-29-2002 Web Admin!
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 9701
    • Kaycy's Creations for Fun
Reporters..
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2003, 10:12:45 pm »
Midnight Dragon
We already know how you feel about the fandom and Furtopia Forums. We expect nothing more from you any more than to just down grade this place where other furs are actually enjoying themselves. Since you are not a fur, by your statements yourself and we all know you hate it here, you hate the staff and apparently the members, then please, just do everyone a favor and leave Furtopia Forums. All you want to do here is blame others for your inconsiderations when posting to other members.

I think everyone has had enough.

Offline Kada-Ru

  • Species: Golden Blue Pegasus
  • Member Since: 11-29-2002 Web Admin!
  • *
  • Female
  • Posts: 9701
    • Kaycy's Creations for Fun
Reporters..
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2003, 10:19:14 pm »
River
I think you have totally missed the point of everyone elses argument about talking to reporters.

Some of us have already told you that it doesn't matter what is said in an interview to these people about the fandom because the reporters are still going to say what THEY want to say and the nice side of the fandom doesn't make any money.

Quote
Not taking part in something dear to your heart simply because it isn't occuring in your area, is essentially the same thing as turning your back on those people if they were face to face with you.


No one is turning their backs on anyone else. All Ben was saying is that it is a Texas reporter and it should be the Texan furs that talk to him, if they so choose and it is THEIR choice to make, NOT ours.

Quote
And more importantly, there would be less sleepless nights for those who are trying to figure out how to be themselves and how to tell family and friends about how they are.  Less depression among furs... as it is terribly straining to hide who one is from others on a daily basis.


River, depression does not only touch furs but every walk of life. You just don't hear much about it because the majority of people out there DON'T talk about it and the furs DO.

Quote
Guess the fur community isn't as friendly as it pretends.....it's still a very every man for himself, selfish world when it really comes down to something that counts, I suppose.


I hope this isn't the way you truly feel about the fandom.

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2003, 01:48:13 am »
OK I think I was misunderstood.  My comments about the ' "Until he asks me specifically for an interview, I'm not going to go out of my way. It's not my place to do so, since I'm not going to be affected locally by the fallout from such an article." statement were not directed at Benjamin, and I clarified that in the same post before I made my comments.

   Perhaps I should clarify more.  How many furs are on the forums and active?  And how many of those have you seen come forward willing to speak to this reporter?  Regardless of their reasons, I wanted to point out that one particular way of reasoning was unfair and selfish.  And that reasoning is the type expressed by that one statment.  I was not blaming Benjamin, but rather challenging anyone who is silently reading these posts and NOT speaking to a reporter souly based on the reasoning that it wouldn't affect them directly.  Too often on these types of forums, you have to bring up a topic no one is speaking of by presenting possible scenerios and waiting to see if those apply based on replies you receive back.  That is all this case was.

Benjamin, I never meant to insult or offend you, in case that has happened.

   And I DO understand about past experiences not being so great when it came to mixing a reporter with a fur to get a story.  But to me, that is all the more reason for more people to come forward and talk to reporters.  To MAKE the good stuff be heard.  It sucks that most of the publicity on furs is so negative, I agree.  But shouldn't that mean that furs would be more willing to make themselves be heard and set the record straight through interviews, editorials to papers, letters to editors of magazines or papers who have portrayed furs unfairly?

   When someone already has a bad opinion of a group, the seclusion of that group (such as reporters not being allowed in Conventions) only lends false credit to media claims, since there is no counterbalance of good material covered.

     It's like Giles Corey, the one male citizen of Salem Mass. who, during his trial of accused witchcraft, refused to speak a guilty or non guilty plea.  He thought he was doing best by not saying one way or another, but the crowd, already having an idea of him formed in their minds, only took his silence as aggreement with their charges.. and while they could not convict him formally of Witchcraft, they still achieved their goal of ridding themselves of him by pressing him to death beneath stones.

   The media and public seems to have an idea concerning furs built up in their minds already.  Staying quiet, non talkative, and secluded is only going to make them feel more justified in their past reports.  But if people came forward and spoke openly about their love for art, nature, animals, and friendship,....all things I see regularly in the fur community, then the positives would HAVE to be acknowledged.

That's all....
And as this topic seems to have digressed into a few tangents, some threatening to get ugly, I will stop my debate.  I don't like unpleasantness.  My ideas have been presented.  My arguments and points are set out here on the table for those who wish to sit and think on them. And perhaps... some spark of positive change will have been created.

~River

Reporters..
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2003, 04:08:24 am »
Firstly it was a generalization not pointing the finger like Kada and WS just did to me...so "friends" please dont judge based on their lack of understanding twards my staments. Thanks.

Offline River Ceed

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Female
  • Posts: 499
    • http://www.riverceed.furtopia.org
Reporters..
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2003, 04:25:38 am »
I have only interceded once before on Midnight's behalf in the past, as we generally leave each other to fight our own battles and handle out own troubles.  But I do think something needs saying here.

Kada:
you said: "We already know how you feel about the fandom and Furtopia Forums. We expect nothing more from you any more than to just down grade this place where other furs are actually enjoying themselves."

I truely hope that you have not been blind to the addition of art he has contributed, as well as artistic advice, the non attacking kind, he has offered, such as info on drawing tablets and tutorials on specific aspects of art techniques.

And regardless of his posts, I sincerely doubt many here know how he truely feels about anything, as he does not allow his personal feelings much space in the online world.

 you said: "Since you are not a fur, by your statements yourself and we all know you hate it here, you hate the staff and apparently the members, then please, just do everyone a favor and leave Furtopia Forums. All you want to do here is blame others for your inconsiderations when posting to other members."

   Aside from the posts which have ticked you or other people off in the past, he has also posted many helpful and kind posts as well.  If a person is going to evaluate an individual, they should do so wholly and not isolate the bad aspects only and forget to mention the positive ones.  White shepard even pointed out : "It wasn’t long ago you were posting or being at least civil." in reference to Midnight.

WS:

   Midnight's comment was based on a generalization of the furs he has met elsewhere as well as in furtopia.  It wasn't directed to mean ONLY the furs here.  And as far as his posts and attitude, a great deal of things have contributed to it, the least of which was his hurt pride over the incident you brought up.  Like anyone, online and offline experiences in the recent months have added in the mix and produced the responses/comments you chastized him for.

   Midnight speaks his mind immediately and bluntly.  He is not the type who would actively seek to hurt as a form of revenge though.  Often his short blunt and opinionated statements earn that label, but it truely isn't the case.

~River

Offline Chaz_wolf

  • Hero Member
  • Ex Staff Member
  • *****
  • Male
  • Posts: 1077
    • http://www.chazwolf.tk
Reporters..
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2003, 08:39:08 am »
I am sorry I posted this here. I didn't know it would course such a fuss.. I am sorry

Chaz
When you are laying in the gutter, you can see the stars.

Email or message me to chat.
See my site = http://chaz-wolf.sytes.net