Small child killed by Alligator.

[Old Rabbit]

Humans and large preditors don't mix. Especially small children.  A family looses child to Alligator
at Disney world in Florida. I understand they have captured 5 Alligators hoping to  find the one
that did it. They say it would likely not be afraid of people anymore. I didn't know gaters were
afraid of anything, Just cautious.  I always figgured they saw lunch if something moved or made
a big splash.

It seems the child was playing at the edge of a water area in the park when he was grabbed by
an Alligator.  I can understand how people might feel any of the wildlife wouldn't be a danger
in a place like Disney world. A place that specializes in family entertainment.

A animal expert said on tv that Alligators are safe as long as you don't bother them or feed them.  I
wonder if the Alligators know this? Personally I wouldn't want to be in or around any place or wetland
that had them. Unless there was a strong barrier to keep them separate.

I blaime the state of Florida as much as the park for the death. Animals have a mind of their own
and large preditors should never be mixed with kids. There should be a law requiring safety
measures for animal parks and kids visiting them.

I understand it's been 30 years since the last attack. Well I have a hunch it's was 30 years
of luck more than anything else. The kid might have even tossed food to the gator. It's not
likely anyone will ever know.

I have heard that Crocodiles kill several people a year in Australia. Perhaps Crocodiles are
more agressive, I don't know. I feel any large preditor should be respected. Kids only
see an animal, not so much the danger. Many kids are attracted to reptilian characters. People
trying to teach young people that we need Alligators, often mislead kids by encouraging cartoons
of friendly ones like Wally Gator.

[Foxpup]

I have heard that Crocodiles kill several people a year in Australia. Perhaps Crocodiles are
more agressive, I don't know.

Much more aggressive. That's why we don't build amusement parks in crocodile-infested waters. I'm not sure who decided that alligators are friendly enough to make that a good idea.

[Iara Warriorfeather]

Were there any obvious signs in the area where the child was playing that stated there were alligators in the water area? If so, they were ignored.

Where were this child's parents?! Too busy staring at an iPhone or what?! I mean, I know kids run off, but I think if you are in an incredibly busy park like Walt Disney World, you'd keep your kids in close view and range at all times. I can't even begin to tell you how distracted young parents can be with a phone or a tablet...even around my apartment complex's pool...the parents chat amongst themselves or stare at their phones while their very young kids (around ages 2-5) are in the pool by themselves or with other same aged kids. Those kids could drown, or need their parents' love, and the parents are too busy to care. It really pushes my buttons like nothing else.

What's even worse is that Disney World allows alligators to be in an open enclosure. Are they too cheap to even put plexiglass fences up?! I mean, these are alligators...fast moving, quick to anger, and potential man eating predators.

There are so many things wrong with this...it makes me so mad! Why?!

[Kobuk]

Were there any obvious signs in the area where the child was playing that stated there were alligators in the water area? If so, they were ignored.

Where were this child's parents?! Too busy staring at an iPhone or what?! I mean, I know kids run off, but I think if you are in an incredibly busy park like Walt Disney World, you'd keep your kids in close view and range at all times. I can't even begin to tell you how distracted young parents can be with a phone or a tablet...even around my apartment complex's pool...the parents chat amongst themselves or stare at their phones while their very young kids (around ages 2-5) are in the pool by themselves or with other same aged kids. Those kids could drown, or need their parents' love, and the parents are too busy to care. It really pushes my buttons like nothing else.

What's even worse is that Disney World allows alligators to be in an open enclosure. Are they too cheap to even put plexiglass fences up?! I mean, these are alligators...fast moving, quick to anger, and potential man eating predators.

There are so many things wrong with this...it makes me so mad! Why?!

If you'd take the time to actually read news stories and get the facts, you'd learn more about this case.
When the incident happened, it was late at night about 9pm or so. Apparently, there was some sort of outdoor movie night going on at the resort. As for what the parents were doing, I don't know. But they couldn't have been 100% completely distracted because both the father and mother saw the attack happen and both rushed to help get the child away from the alligator.
"No Swimming" signs were posted along the beach/water areas. The child wasn't swimming per se, but was only in 12 inches of water and was more like "wading".
What is also wrong is the yellow part I highlighted. There is absolutely NOTHING Disney or anybody else can do about the alligator situation in Florida except put up alligator warning signs. Why? Read this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/airboat-captain-disney-gators/index.html

[Old Rabbit]

I listened to a few news reports on TV and the park has added a fence and signs warning of
alligators and snakes.  They also said there is around a million alligators in Florida alone. The
Disney park covers 42 square miles in area. Mostly over a swamplike wetland. Prime country
for alligators. Other than putting everyone behind fences people are going to run into one
now and then.

If you go to Florida your likely to see an alligator. It's a fact of life, and visitors should be
warned about them. People who live there know, but visitors probably haven't ever seen
one before. The news also said the other big park near Orlando is reviewing it's safety
procedures though they have more fences and water areas isolated from open water ways.

Apparently alligators operate basicly on instinct.. So it's up to the visitor to be
aware, because the gator is gonna do what gators do.. 

I know Walt Disney chose Florida for the climate and low land prices. I understand he wanted
a large land area to keep tourist traps out of sight and away from the park. In California they
located right up against Disneyland.  Perhaps he should have picked a place farther north near
the smokey mountains. There are bears there, but few gators I bet.

[Kobuk]

Other than putting everyone behind fences people are going to run into one
now and then.

Fences won't work. Alligators are going to go wherever the hell they damn please. They've been spotted in people's yards, neighborhoods, gold courses, parks, and so much more. People who think fences are going to keep them out are deluded. 

Perhaps he should have picked a place farther north near
the smokey mountains. There are bears there, but few gators I bet.

Bad idea. Bears are pests too. 

[Iara Warriorfeather]

Were there any obvious signs in the area where the child was playing that stated there were alligators in the water area? If so, they were ignored.

Where were this child's parents?! Too busy staring at an iPhone or what?! I mean, I know kids run off, but I think if you are in an incredibly busy park like Walt Disney World, you'd keep your kids in close view and range at all times. I can't even begin to tell you how distracted young parents can be with a phone or a tablet...even around my apartment complex's pool...the parents chat amongst themselves or stare at their phones while their very young kids (around ages 2-5) are in the pool by themselves or with other same aged kids. Those kids could drown, or need their parents' love, and the parents are too busy to care. It really pushes my buttons like nothing else.

What's even worse is that Disney World allows alligators to be in an open enclosure. Are they too cheap to even put plexiglass fences up?! I mean, these are alligators...fast moving, quick to anger, and potential man eating predators.

There are so many things wrong with this...it makes me so mad! Why?!

If you'd take the time to actually read news stories and get the facts, you'd learn more about this case.
When the incident happened, it was late at night about 9pm or so. Apparently, there was some sort of outdoor movie night going on at the resort. As for what the parents were doing, I don't know. But they couldn't have been 100% completely distracted because both the father and mother saw the attack happen and both rushed to help get the child away from the alligator.
"No Swimming" signs were posted along the beach/water areas. The child wasn't swimming per se, but was only in 12 inches of water and was more like "wading".
What is also wrong is the yellow part I highlighted. There is absolutely NOTHING Disney or anybody else can do about the alligator situation in Florida except put up alligator warning signs. Why? Read this article:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/16/us/airboat-captain-disney-gators/index.html

I had no idea Disney World had a hotel right on the waterway. That's really bad planning, considering gators have been there for hundreds of years.

Honestly, if people don't read signs and keep an eye on their kids, kids will get eaten by gators. And if gators can get in no matter what...well, I guess my travel plans to Orlando are nixed.

I still think the Disney Company needs to be held responsible for its patrons, wildlife or no. I think if a hotel or resort is built on a wildlife refuge, people need to be informed constantly. Through apps, through email, through signs, at every entrance and exit. There is no excuse here, since the Company makes billions of dollars a year in theme parks alone.

I also think that parents who wish to travel to these places...zoos, wildlife parks, hotels near wildlife...need to be taught repeatedly that you don't bring small children to these places. I think there needs to be an age restriction. It's been a long time coming, honestly. Museums, zoos, and wildlife refuges are NOT for small children!! There are places that are made just for kids...playgrounds, Chuck E Cheese, petting zoos, and kids' museums. Why do parents think that because their kid is smart, it's ok to bring them to an adult area?! I think this would be common sense, but most people ignore that, so I think there needs to be a definite age limit, like they have at theme parks on rides.

I'm sure putting the restriction in place would make a lot of parents angry, but I feel it's not smart to bring a kid younger than kindergarten age into such areas.

At any rate, the whole scenario is terrible.

[Kobuk]

I had no idea Disney World had a hotel right on the waterway. That's really bad planning, considering gators have been there for hundreds of years.

It's not just Disney that has made "bad planning", but golf courses, shopping centers, schools, and much more.

Honestly, if people don't read signs and keep an eye on their kids, kids will get eaten by gators. And if gators can get in no matter what...well, I guess my travel plans to Orlando are nixed.

I don't see why people have to nix their plans for traveling to Orlando. Being responsible in your surroundings and around other people, plus keeping your eyes open, is the best defense to anything happening down there. Signs and other warnings will help "advise" you of harmful stuff, but it is vigilance itself from the traveler that will guarentee a fun and safe time. So if you want to go to Orlando, Iara, then do it. Don't let a gator scare you from doing what you want.

I still think the Disney Company needs to be held responsible for its patrons, wildlife or no. I think if a hotel or resort is built on a wildlife refuge, people need to be informed constantly. Through apps, through email, through signs, at every entrance and exit. There is no excuse here, since the Company makes billions of dollars a year in theme parks alone.

Maybe that's one reason why Disney didn't have signs warning about alligators and/or other harmful wildlife: Money $$$.  Disney makes billions of dollars each year from it's theme parks. To post signs warning of alligators would make the public think twice about coming to it's Florida resorts. Less public = less revenue for Disney.

I also think that parents who wish to travel to these places...zoos, wildlife parks, hotels near wildlife...need to be taught repeatedly that you don't bring small children to these places. I think there needs to be an age restriction. It's been a long time coming, honestly. Museums, zoos, and wildlife refuges are NOT for small children!! There are places that are made just for kids...playgrounds, Chuck E Cheese, petting zoos, and kids' museums. Why do parents think that because their kid is smart, it's ok to bring them to an adult area?! I think this would be common sense, but most people ignore that, so I think there needs to be a definite age limit, like they have at theme parks on rides.

So you're saying that Disney and all it's theme parks and resorts should have an age restriction and/or not allow kids? I think Walt Disney would be rolling in his grave if he heard about that. 

I'm sure putting the restriction in place would make a lot of parents angry, but I feel it's not smart to bring a kid younger than kindergarten age into such areas.

Putting more restrictions in place isn't the answer. This topic is similar to my gun control thread. What will help instead is knowledge. KNOWLEDGE = POWER. Educating the public about the dangers of wildlife, etc., etc. is a lot better than putting more restrictions in place.
At any rate, the whole scenario is terrible.

[Iara Warriorfeather]

I also think that parents who wish to travel to these places...zoos, wildlife parks, hotels near wildlife...need to be taught repeatedly that you don't bring small children to these places. I think there needs to be an age restriction. It's been a long time coming, honestly. Museums, zoos, and wildlife refuges are NOT for small children!! There are places that are made just for kids...playgrounds, Chuck E Cheese, petting zoos, and kids' museums. Why do parents think that because their kid is smart, it's ok to bring them to an adult area?! I think this would be common sense, but most people ignore that, so I think there needs to be a definite age limit, like they have at theme parks on rides.

So you're saying that Disney and all it's theme parks and resorts should have an age restriction and/or not allow kids? I think Walt Disney would be rolling in his grave if he heard about that. 

No, I am not saying that. I am saying that particular types of parks/amusement locations--the ones where wild animals roam, or where there is priceless artwork/fossil material on display--should have an age restriction. Most of Disneyland and its parks are indeed kid friendly. I had no idea the Walt Disney World in Orlando was not similar to Disneyland, in the respect that yes, it is thousands of acres larger, but I thought it would be a lot more contained, so to speak. I was wrong about that.

There are areas in Disney resorts that cater more to adults than kids, especially the hotels and shopping areas (in CA we have the Downtown Disney District, which is purposely set for adults, yet kids wander the area constantly!). I would hope that most parents are aware of their kids at all times, especially when they are young and in a super crowded place, but all too often kids just run loose. That is especially dangerous in Walt Disney World, due to its vast size and inherent wildlife problems.

Putting more restrictions in place isn't the answer. This topic is similar to my gun control thread. What will help instead is knowledge. KNOWLEDGE = POWER. Educating the public about the dangers of wildlife, etc., etc. is a lot better than putting more restrictions in place.

I think that despite educating the general public, there are still going to be future incidences like this. People in a theme park/vacation don't want to be educated, they want things NOW and they want their way all the time, without the 'boring' facts. There are the few educated folks like me who constantly shake their heads at some people who decide to do whatever they want, regardless of the park rules, and I find it is these same people who ruin a great experience for everyone by causing restrictions to be put in place for the safety of the general public. I know this from experience, having worked at a theme park for two summers. People disregard signs and rules all the time. It was sadly only a matter of time before a terrible thing happened to someone's kid at Disney World...it's awful that it had to involve an alligator, of all things, and a very young boy.

[Kobuk]

People in a theme park/vacation don't want to be educated, they want things NOW and they want their way all the time, without the 'boring' facts.

Two things to describe what you said:  "Instant gratification" and "Entitlement"

We're living in a generation where people want things now. They don't want to take the time, money, effort, etc. to learn or work to get what they want. But I digress. It's a topic better left for another thread and another time. 

[Rocket T. Coyote]

The parents aren't being charged. So easy to let one's guard down when you think you're in a resort.

Having watched some of that "Gator Nation" show, I hope I never have to tangle with one. Snapping turtles are as bad as it gets for this howler, and I've seen some monsters.

[Old Rabbit]

Other than putting everyone behind fences people are going to run into one
now and then.

Fences won't work. Alligators are going to go wherever the hell they damn please. They've been spotted in people's yards, neighborhoods, gold courses, parks, and so much more. People who think fences are going to keep them out are deluded. 

Perhaps he should have picked a place farther north near
the smokey mountains. There are bears there, but few gators I bet.

Bad idea. Bears are pests too. 

Yes, but at least they are easier to see when they are around. People visit the Smokey Mountain park
every year. I was there once, and woke up hearing others in the camp area chasing a bear
out of camp by making a lot of noise.

Also fences will work if you build them to keep gaters out instead of cows or sheep.

Of course it's likely the fences the park builds will only deter them instead of
keeping out a determined gater due to cost.

[Kobuk]

http://nypost.com/2016/06/17/disney-finally-putting-up-fence-around-gator-infested-lagoon/

A recent report charged that Disney World was warned about the alligator problem in the Seven Seas Lagoon but that it overlooked it because high-paying guests enjoyed feeding the creatures.

The stupidity of the human species never ceases to amaze me.       

Also fences will work if you build them to keep gaters out instead of cows or sheep.

Please tell me again how fences will......or won't......work against alligators? And it's not just alligators that people have to watch out for, but lots of other dangerous wildlife as well. Like pythons for example. 

[Old Rabbit]

You have to design the fence to defeat the abilities of the animal you wish to contain.

They could use a chainline fence with a down slopeing metal guard near the top. That way when they
tried to climb out out around it their claws couldn't get a grip and they would fall back.Also the bottom
of the fence needs to be fastened to a concrete footing running the length of the fence.

Your not going to keep an animal out unless you understand the animal and it's capabilities. Trying
to do it cheap won't work.