North Carolina Transgender Bathroom Bill

[Loc]

Natura: If say, a trans-woman who presents as and dresses as a woman is forced to use the bathroom of her biological sex for whatever stupid reason, she is going to have to go into the gents. It would make her a target for ridicule and assault. That would cause them to risk coming to harm.

[Natura Wolf]

Natura: If say, a trans-woman who presents as and dresses as a woman is forced to use the bathroom of her biological sex for whatever stupid reason, she is going to have to go into the gents. It would make her a target for ridicule and assault. That would cause them to risk coming to harm.

My question to you then is how are they force considering they view themselves as a woman, and they have taken steps to utilise the semiotics to allow people around said person to read 'female'

[Loc]

Maybe they haven't started on hormones and still have some masculine characteristics. Those things do take time to work, it isn't an instant swap.

[Natura Wolf]

Maybe they haven't started on hormones and still have some masculine characteristics. Those things do take time to work, it isn't an instant swap.

then regardless what toilet you go into, people will see a class of signs suggesting both male and female, and ou can't change that line of thinking, nor blame someone for thinking that way, it's ingrained, arguably beyond the point of society.

[Star Weaver]

Why the hell do we even have gendered bathrooms again?

Personally, I'd like to get rid of urinals as well. The shaming of men who have/want to sit down to pee is disgusting.

Also, Kobuk, stating things as if they're your opinion and then claiming you're just talking for other people when someone is disgusted by it, just makes you look like someone who feels out what they can get away with and backpedals to safety when called out. If you want to give what you think are other people's reasons or arguments for something, it's really better to state that's what your doing upfront. It makes you a whole lot less slimy.

[Natura Wolf]

Why the hell do we even have gendered bathrooms again?

Personally, I'd like to get rid of urinals as well. The shaming of men who have/want to sit down to pee is disgusting.

Also, Kobuk, stating things as if they're your opinion and then claiming you're just talking for other people when someone is disgusted by it, just makes you look like someone who feels out what they can get away with and backpedals to safety when called out. If you want to give what you think are other people's reasons or arguments for something, it's really better to state that's what your doing upfront. It makes you a whole lot less slimy.

firstly urinals don't shame anyone, at all.  Its a choice not a force.

secondly kobuk isn't being slimy, he's stated his thoughts, opinion and doesn't have to be on a side, don't even need to be sides

[Yip]

How can it lead to harm?  In what way are they going to be harmed? 

As I said, unless you are in an environment that is very accepting of trans and non-gender binary people, then being forced to use the wrong bathroom could result in the trans/non-gender binary person being harassed or worse.  How is that hard to understand?  It can 'out' people that don't want to be out, it can send a message to them they their is something wrong with them (thus potentially physiological harm, particularly for kids that are trans), or just in general draw unwanted attention just because they need to use the bathroom.  For example, a trans-man would probably blend in more in the men's restroom, and a trans-women would probably blend in more in the women's restroom.

[Natura Wolf]

How can it lead to harm?  In what way are they going to be harmed? 

As I said, unless you are in an environment that is very accepting of trans and non-gender binary people, then being forced to use the wrong bathroom could result in the trans/non-gender binary person being harassed or worse.  How is that hard to understand?  It can 'out' people that don't want to be out, it can send a message to them they their is something wrong with them (thus potentially physiological harm, particularly for kids that are trans), or just in general draw unwanted attention just because they need to use the bathroom.  For example, a trans-man would probably blend in more in the men's restroom, and a trans-women would probably blend in more in the women's restroom.

Because the argument above is completely subjective without an example of how someone would be harrassed, and honestly in comparison the world still addressing, feminism inequality, northern and southern conflict still continuing within USA despite the slave war ending many many years ago, refugees of syria, and i'm sure many other issues, that i'll be frank, need addressing much more than 'I want to wear a dress when I take a crap without being judge'.

You are basically countering stupid bills with melodramatic statements of individual bathrooms everywhere without cubicals, and that gender specific toilets cause harm to the trans people, which are not a race.  Lifestyle, god giving them the wrong body, mental handicap, disability handicap, gene issues, whatever you wan to believe, but they are not a race of people.

The arguments you suggest do not fix nor progress trans gender, and the arguments you give appear to be strictly emotively given without research or discussion, which Ironic considering gender is being considered a grey aspect rather than one or the other, but good and bad is final, it's a very christian thinking.

Point is this discussion is kind of pointless other than to seek oppinions of others, but if you do not like them nor accept them, then what do you want?

[Yip]

@ Natura Wolf:
What are you talking about?  I am deeply confused by your response.  For one thing, I DID provide examples. For another, why would it possible make any difference that it's "not a race".  Race or not, it's still something people get targeted for discrimination over.  Are you honestly denying that?

And what's this "good or bad is final" bit? Where did I ever say anything was strictly good or bad? You said "is it really going to kill you if you are allocated a toilet space".  I was just pointing out that, yes, harm -can- come from it. Not that harm is guaranteed, but that harm is a possibility.

It honestly seems to me like you are responding to something completely different from what I've said here.

[Natura Wolf]

@ Natura Wolf:
What are you talking about?  I am deeply confused by your response.  For one thing, I DID provide examples. For another, why would it possible make any difference that it's "not a race".  Race or not, it's still something people get targeted for discrimination over.  Are you honestly denying that?

And what's this "good or bad is final" bit? Where did I ever say anything was strictly good or bad? You said "is it really going to kill you if you are allocated a toilet space".  I was just pointing out that, yes, harm -can- come from it. Not that harm is guaranteed, but that harm is a possibility.

It honestly seems to me like you are responding to something completely different from what I've said here.

What examples?

Also many things can harm you, that doesn't mean it's likely to or that it would.  I know that a few furries are happy to believe that the human societ is the worst thing in the world and are more likely to promote death to humans rather than equality.  In this conversation for example it's a major assumption that something bad is going to happy to majority of transgender by, well people, cause humans are bad, and after having many conversations that result in people whining that most peoplle are evil and they should all die, etc, they are tiresome and unintelligent conversations as generally at this point they are shut off from any from of reason or perspective but their own.

Also Dalai Lama <3

Final point, perhaps neither of us are understanding each other, i'm only responding to what I am getting from the conversation with you

[Yip]

Also many things can harm you, that doesn't mean it's likely to or that it would.

This response is so dismissive it's insulting.
Anyways...

Before I can really address anything further with you, I think it's important to ask you: (and I'll try to put this as neutrally as I can. Please disregard anything else about the context of our conversation and just answer it as a stand alone question:)

True or false: There are places in the U.S. where it is not uncommon for people to be targeted for discrimination due to being transgender.

[Avan]

I'm all in favour of doing away with gendered bathrooms altogether and having unisex rooms.

Syr> Agreed.

[cause the rat]

I'm straight and see nothing wrong with it. I'm also not republican. I can think clearly on the subject.

[Kobuk]

Here's a new link/story I just saw. Another example of the Obama administration butting it's nose in where it doesn't belong. Let individual communities and States handle their own transgender bathroom issues, not the Federal Gov't. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/13/us/politics/obama-administration-to-issue-decree-on-transgender-access-to-school-restrooms.html?_r=0

[Ancusmitis]

First of all, there is no "transgender bathroom issue."  Everyone goes to the bathroom.  Second of all, this is a constitutional issue.  You can't make laws in this country specifically targetting groups of people, no matter how uncomfortable they make you.  States and localities have no right to harass and intimidate people on the basis of their gender identity.