2016 Presidential Debate

[Kobuk]

The 2016 Presidential Debate starts next week Monday. Here's a thread where we can all discuss to our heart's content what we liked, disliked, etc. about the debates and/or the candidates themselves. For starters, here's a primer to the first night:
http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/democracy-2016/viewing-guide-the-first-presidential-debate

[Kobuk]

Knowing Trump, he'll try to steer the debates his way. And when he doesn't get his way and doesn't like what he sees and hears, he'll throw a temper tantrum, fit, or whatever and derail the debate into name calling, bickering, insults, etc.  It'll probably go something like this:

Moderator:  Ok, our first topic for debate tonight is "Jobs and the Economy". Mrs. Clinton, you're up first.
Clinton:  Thank You. I'd like to say that.......
Trump:  *interrupts*  I am going to make this nation great again! Yessir! I am going to build a wall to keep......
Moderator:  Mr. Trump, we're not discussing Immigration.........
Trump:  I have the floor, do I not?
Clinton:  Can we please get back on topic here?
Trump:  Nobody asked for your opinion, Killary. Now as I was saying, I am going to build a wall to........
Moderator: Mr. Trump, our first topic for tonight is jobs and the economy. Please stay on topic.
Trump:  I AM ON TOPIC! Maybe what we need is a new Moderator that favors my stance on certain issues.
..........etc., etc., etc.   

[GrayWolf448]

well if anything iv seen clinton go off topic more than trump... iv also seen trump get interrupted more than he's interrupted

[Chipper Blu-wolf]

Bummed Gary Johnson didn't get on the stage.  Clinton and Trump aren't the only choices, but both major political parties want you to think its only one or the other, the lesser of two evils.

[Old Rabbit]

I think we can be sure of one thing. Trump will say "I won the Debate." no matter
how poorly or good he does.

He was a mess during the last one he did with him and Clinton separately on the
aircraft carrier. He was red faced and trying to change the subject as usual. 

Clinton hasn't had a chance to interrupt Trump or the other way around. They
have to be on stage together first.

It mostly depends on the moderator. If he/she doesn't press the issues Trump will
likely duck and dodge. Clinton isn't perfect, but no one is.  I think they should only
have the microphone live for the one who is supposed to be speaking.

I doubt if Trumps supporters think any less of Trump no matter how good or
bad he is..  It's the independent voter they are trying to get. I wonder if
Trump will get caught sweating like Nixon did.

I did hear yesterday that in early absent tee voting democrats are voting more
than republicans. For all that's worth. I doubt if Trumps stop and frisk idea will
buy him many votes, especially from minorities.

[Kobuk]

First Presidential debate is done for tonight. Preliminary results are here:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/26/politics/fact-check-presidential-debate/index.html

More news links to follow tomorrow.

[cause the rat]

Just got done watching the debate. Trump's still playing the evil immigrant card. And as usual stood there and lied threw his teeth.  Danced around questions with ridiculous rambling. He talked about and knows his only media friend is fox. any truth he was confronted with was blamed on 'The liberal media".  I'm not a big fan of Hillary. But I think I can live threw four years of her. Trumps response to not paying federal income tax. "Maybe I'm smarter than you."

[Old Rabbit]

Just got done watching the debate. Trump's still playing the evil immigrant card. And as usual stood there and lied threw his teeth.  Danced around questions with ridiculous rambling. He talked about and knows his only media friend is fox. any truth he was confronted with was blamed on 'The liberal media".  I'm not a big fan of Hillary. But I think I can live threw four years of her. Trumps response to not paying federal income tax. "Maybe I'm smarter than you."

You pretty much said it all. Of course he claimed he was the big winner and there
were polls saying so at the finish. I wonder what poll he was hearing from? I mean
there wasn't time yet.

Also he stood there like he had ants in his pants, making faces, rude noises like
some spoiled little kid who wasn't getting his way.  I don't know how anyone
could call that presidental. Even one of his supporters said he was ashamed
of how he acted.

I wish the GOP did have a really good canidate, I am not a great fan of Clinton
but she acts much more like a leader of a country than Trump does.

She commented about him liking the fact houses were selling cheap so he
could buy them up and make money in 2008. Saying it was just business. He
didn't care about the people who were loosing everything.  I wonder if he is
planning to treat the country the same way. I mean if people get hurt due to
his ways. Is it just business to him?

We have two more debates.. I imagine he will tune his responses for next time.
Only time will tell.

[cause the rat]

I've just got home from work so haven't seen any news. So this is just speculation. It would not surprise me to hear Trump refusing to have any more debates. Claim his supporters know enough about him. Guess i'm kinda hoping this to be the fact. It would allow the third candidate and Hillary to have a go at each other. Right now I don't care what the third candidate stands for. Trump is a psychotic megalomaniac and a pathological lier. Hillary is a megalomaniac who will do anything to get power. Right now the third guy could be a blood thirsty serial killer and I'd vote for him. At least I would know what to expect.

[Kobuk]

for those who missed the debate or would like to watch it again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=855Am6ovK7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHPrYUcoi0

Got to say that I found it quite "entertaining".  Clinton sure made a fool out of Trump. That's for sure. Or better yet, Clinton didn't have to do anything. Trump did it all himself without even really trying.      That debate certainly had some great one-liners and comebacks.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/26/politics/presidential-debate-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-quotes/index.html

[Kobuk]

I think we all pretty much know that Trump is a businessman first and foremost. A politician, he is not. His only concern is making money. Need an example? Watch the debate again and listen to the parts about NATO. Trump repeatedly says that NATO members are "not paying their fair share" toward maintaining NATO. By "not paying their fair share", Trump is talking about $$$$$ which is the only thing he cares about.

[Old Rabbit]

It's part of the GOP's philosophy to privatize almost everything that governemt
currently does. Let the free market control it.  In a perfect world I would agree,
but too many people are liers, cheats and downright crooks for it to work without
regulation or governemt oversight.

Trump is a good example of this. He claims he didn't pay people because they
did poor work, or whatever. This happens, but not very often. The only excuse
to not pay is if the service is not rendered. Just calling it poor is a matter for
civil court to decide. Besides people who do poor work don't stay in business
very long. If Trump is so smart he should know how to check the reputation of
businesses he deals with.

I wonder if the reason he didn't pay those young girl dancers he had at one of his
ralleys in January of this year. Was because they didn't dance well? or because
they weren't pretty enough? Perhaps he thought it was smart to  not pay them,
hoping he could get by with it. Just to save what would have been pocket change
for him.

Perhaps this is a game to him, to see how often he can get by with not paying
people he hires to do his work.

[Holt5]

I watched about the first 40 minutes of the debate and turned it off - it amounted to nothing more than a bunch of posturing from my POV. When I go to spend time watching some of our potential leaders discuss issues relevant to the country and myself, I'd like to be able to expect the kind of good will and dignity that I'd expect from literally almost every other person I know personally. I'd also expect substance, which I felt was delivered maybe a bit better than some of the debates in the last election, but it honestly wasn't worth any more time than what I spent on it.

It would've been much more interesting and informative to have a few of the other running candidates on stage, given this was just the first debate. Last I checked there were six people in all who are running, and Gary Johnson is pretty close to making a %15 approval rating. I'm waiting for him to get up there - even if he doesn't stand much chance of winning, I'd like to see the two-party system have a bit of third-party turmoil to deal with.

[Chipper Blu-wolf]

The debates make the US look like a joke.  Didn't watch it, and won't, but have read all the bytes and bits that came out of it, and saved a lot of time.  Both candidates (and third party candidates) need to give real answers and stop with the smear already.

[Kobuk]

At times, it can be fun, entertaining, and even humorous to watch the Presidential Debates and read everything concerning this year's Presidential Election. But after awhile, I do get tired of all the bickering, name calling, and finger pointing. 

Frankly, I've heard enough of Bill Clinton's infidelity. I've heard enough of Hillary's email scandal. And I've heard enough of so many other "past" issues. The past is the past. Let it stay there. My only concern, and that of the rest of the American people, is the HERE AND NOW.

We need to focus and concentrate on more current and pressing issues that the Presidential candidates need to discuss and solve like ISIS, Syria civil war, racism in America, gun shootings, economy, jobs, and so much more. To me, it seems like Trump cares more about bringing up "past ghosts" than he does about discussing and solving current issues. 

[Holt5]

At times, it can be fun, entertaining, and even humorous to watch the Presidential Debates and read everything concerning this year's Presidential Election. But after awhile, I do get tired of all the bickering, name calling, and finger pointing. 

Frankly, I've heard enough of Bill Clinton's infidelity. I've heard enough of Hillary's email scandal. And I've heard enough of so many other "past" issues. The past is the past. Let it stay there. My only concern, and that of the rest of the American people, is the HERE AND NOW.

We need to focus and concentrate on more current and pressing issues that the Presidential candidates need to discuss and solve like ISIS, Syria civil war, racism in America, gun shootings, economy, jobs, and so much more. To me, it seems like Trump cares more about bringing up "past ghosts" than he does about discussing and solving current issues. 

As much as I would like to agree with you I can't help but ignore the intuition that, were their respective issues reversed, the same exact arguments would be made in the same exact manner. On the campaign run anything that can be twisted into a flaw will be dragged out into the open and punished as such. Any image that serves to garner support will be taken advantage of - including utter hypocrisy, which may be touted as compromise, or vice versa. Neither campaign has shied away from these tactics - the only real difference I see is that the Clinton campaign simply ignores accusations and appeals to much of the modern intellectual activist crowd, including some extremists, while Trump's goes with meeting accusations via the fiery temper of "the common man," which has its own queue of intellectuals and extremists as well.

My view is that Clinton's supporters relate enough to their candidate to be subject to confirmation bias, which allows them to feel a little less concerned about issues (like private E-mail scandals) than they otherwise would with another candidate. If we're to be completely honest about the rationale of our support, is it intellectually honest to support every accusation made against an opponent but not show the same strictness towards their own candidate? To me, that's a no. It's about winning, and nothing more.

Same exact thing with Trump. Blunt and crude, "not trying to tip-toe around the important issues". He appeals to his crowd enough that they're willing to ignore his own behavior, because otherwise "he checks out with them."

Given that premise, I do think we need more discussion on the issues as opposed to name-calling. But due to a person's record being so critical to how they are received, it doesn't make sense not to attack Clinton's past, from a campaigning perspective and from an objective point of observation. So long as concrete facts are not brought up about some of these apparent scandals (infidelity should certainly have no place in the discussion - it's totally irrelevant in my opinion, especially considering she was not the one cheating on her spouse), it's going to continue being a hurdle for Clinton's campaign, and rightly so.

[continuation of pointing fingers at political figures I don't like, yadda yadda.  ]

[Old Rabbit]

People talk about transparency or lying. I suppose both are guilty
of not being transparent and lying.

Clinton has shown all of her tax records.
Trump hides his.
Clinton deleted Emails. We all delete emails.Do we really
want to see personal mail, or spam she deleted?
Trumps foundation is mis used by evidence.
Clintons foundation shows no evidence of mis use.

Nearly every bad thing said against Clinton is claimed due to  a conspiracy
theory created by the GOP for political reasons.

Most of Trumps problems are real, and provable. and he lies constantly.

Personally I would rather have someone with a record of service
and experence of temperment as president than someone who
shows little control of emotion as president. Some say he will act
fifferent and will have lots of people to help him, but evidence
shows he doesn't listen to other people, and never admits being
wrong.

I can't beiieve anything Trump says anymore. What is a lie and what
isn't. Who can say? We shouldn't make a decision based on
conspiracy theories, but people often do.

[Holt5]

People talk about transparency or lying. I suppose both are guilty
of not being transparent and lying.

Clinton has shown all of her tax records.
Trump hides his.
Clinton deleted Emails. We all delete emails.Do we really
want to see personal mail, or spam she deleted?
Trumps foundation is mis used by evidence.
Clintons foundation shows no evidence of mis use.

Nearly every bad thing said against Clinton is claimed due to  a conspiracy
theory created by the GOP for political reasons.

Most of Trumps problems are real, and provable. and he lies constantly.

Personally I would rather have someone with a record of service
and experence of temperment as president than someone who
shows little control of emotion as president. Some say he will act
fifferent and will have lots of people to help him, but evidence
shows he doesn't listen to other people, and never admits being
wrong.

I can't beiieve anything Trump says anymore. What is a lie and what
isn't. Who can say? We shouldn't make a decision based on
conspiracy theories, but people often do.

I agree with you on most of those points. Trump's campaign plays as a poor sport and will try to get whatever digs in that he/they can, including the nonexistent variety. But it also has to be remembered that his demeanor is centered towards, and thus better received by, his own audience. The funny thing is, a Trump supporter will tell you that you're overreacting about his demeanor and claims (especially on social issues), and a Clinton supporter will do the same thing for Clinton. There's no lack of confirmation bias on either side. 

The problem with Clinton's emails was the fact that she was apparently using her own private server to conduct official business as opposed to using official hardware for the process, which was the kosher way of doing things. Whilst not a crime in and of itself, using a private server opened up some significant holes in national security. Given the fact that she's essentially been helping run the country from behind for at least a decade's worth of time, it may seem trivial to be concerned about a mere matter of convenience, but those attacking her for the incident do have a point, even if her actions were of a purely innocent motivation. It's not a good idea to expose secret documents to potential hackers, and that's something that should have been plain-sight. Then again, for all we know now, it could all be some elaborate plot to feed misinformation to rival nations. Never know with politics. In any case, I feel that people are doing the right thing by putting some interest into these (relevant) issues as opposed to her husband's fidelity. Past or not, I want to know who she is: obviously if things come out clean she has only to gain from it. Also obviously, I wouldn't trust opposing parties to host the inquiry. ^_^

I would say much the same about Trump if not for the fact that he kind of holds a limbo-inducing monopoly on his own words: he's often mixing hyperbole with half-truths so that even when you point out one of his statements as wrong, he can say "oh, you didn't look in the fine print there!" and continue on. Half-truths also offer an abundant avenue for "snaring" opposition and making them look hypocritical or dishonorable, even if they aren't, simply because they failed to decode the vernacular that his supporters appear to understand with ease. When you're arguing with the common tongue, obviously there must be something wrong with you! Which again goes back to appealing to respective fan bases. Clinton does it as well, but not nearly as much as Trump does, as far as I've seen at least. I don't know - hopefully that's a fair and balanced analysis.

[Kobuk]

For those that missed it........

Live from New York......It's Saturday Night! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQGBZQrtT0

[Kobuk]

Vice-Presidential Debate is coming up soon. Anybody have any thoughts on that?
http://www.tmj4.com/news/national/democracy-2016/what-to-look-for-during-tuesdays-vice-presidential-debate

[Kobuk]

VP debate is done. Here are 2 sample links discussing the "facts and claims" made by Kaine and Pence.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/fact-check-vp-debate/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/fact-check-vice-presidential-debate/index.html

[Old Rabbit]

Well it's over, the VP's had their stand.

Pence reminded me of a slick operator, but I don't think he lies quite as well as
Trump. Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. I was waiting for the violins to play
when Pence started talking about his youth.

I do think Pence would make a better President than Trump, but he emplyed he
would go to war with Russia. He best think long and hard about that. Russia may
not have the strength of the old Soviet Union, but they would be a dangerous foe.

He spent a lot of time defending Trump, and Kaine was a bit of an attack dog, but
Pence kept making remarks defending Trump while Kaine was speaking.

Actually Pence appeared to be promoting Ideas of his own and some werent in line
with Trumps.. I wonder if Trump takes Pence to the woodshed over that. 

I think Kaine should have rememinded the public that Pence hates Gays, and wants to
take womens rights for abortion away. Not sure about minorities.. He is very religious
and seems to want the rest of us to follow his ways, even passing laws to enforce it.

People come to this country for religious freedom, and the sooner people like Pence
accept it the better. Theocracy's are bad news.

[GrayWolf448]

" he emplyed he would go to war with Russia. ... Russia may not have the strength of the old Soviet Union, but they would be a dangerous foe."

ya how about no...

one does not simply go to war with russia without destroying the stability of the world. while russia is doing things wrong in some areas, they do seem very helpful. besides they seem to be mostly keeping to them selves when it comes to countries west of the Ukraine. that guy seems pretty dangerous to have in power.

[Kobuk]

The first 5-10 minutes of the second Presidential Debate last night were priceless! Pure comical hilarity!  Trump was trying to apologise for the "locker room banter" sexual comments he made in a just released tape, then he immediately switches to talk about ISIS?  WHAT A MORON!    And I loved how the moderators kept "putting Trump in his place" and telling him to stay on topic and such.  Maybe Trump or Clinton should not be President, but instead the moderators. You could obviously tell they weren't going to take any crap from Trump last night. Way to go, Mods! 

[Old Rabbit]

Well the second presidental debate is done.. I agree the Moderators did a good job ..

I am sure Trump considers it a win as he did the last go around. I could see his facial expressions
were still weird and he roamed around the stage. Even looked like he was trying to mentally
distract Clinton,. Perhaps by telepathy? Sure did a lot of scowling.

Trump did apparently did a bit of practice before this one. Shame he still feels he has to lie and
not respond to questions without drifting off to something else. Some times he had to be asked
several times before answering. I know politicians do try to spin off, but I think they should stay
on the subject in a debate. Even Clinton got off, but mostly responding to Trumps spin.

When asked if his policy about Syria had been changed, He said NO. and that he hadn't discussed
it with his running mate.. I hardly think he hadn't seen Pence after what he said on tuesday about
pushing back against the Russians.  He could have just said Pence mis spoke on the issue.

He tried to say president Clinton was worse than anything he did or said about women. Of course
Bill Clinton isn't on the ballot.. Actually he said little about what he would or planned to do. He
mis represnted his Tax plan, and Clintons,  He said he wan'ts to get rid of the ACA, but didn't
say what he would do to replace it other than saying to make insurance companys compete
nation wide. The nation wide compitition was the only good idea I heard out of him. The rest
was just more of his lies and gab.

I don't think the debate changed any voters minds, so on to the last debate. 

Sure will be nice when it's all over. If Trump loses I wonder if he will go back to his Tower or
will he try to claim the electioin was stolen? Spending the next four years of Trump claiming
Clinton isn't really president and should be in jail.  I sure hope not..