Author Topic: Environmentally friendly delusions  (Read 11891 times)

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Offline Mooshi

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2010, 09:48:36 pm »
Castration for the insane? Global enforcement of the Chinese one child per household rule? Top secret government tampering of our drinking water that has chemicals which makes us not wanna "do the dew" to create more children? I dunno! D:

Offline Foxpup

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 11:14:07 pm »
Castration for the insane? Global enforcement of the Chinese one child per household rule? Top secret government tampering of our drinking water that has chemicals which makes us not wanna "do the dew" to create more children? I dunno! D:

No, no, no, I've got a better plan. One that doesn't make civil libertarians mad. We just provide a lifetime supply of free condoms to the entire world! What? Oh, right... Never mind.

Offline Shim

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 11:19:31 pm »
drinking water that has chemicals which makes us not wanna "do the dew" to create more children? I dunno! D:

Hey, hey.

Kobuk is the only one around here doing the dew.

Back on topic..Its not a matter of the world being destroyed. Yes, life will continue even when we're gone, but we don't want that mark having been made by us in the first place.

Offline Kobuk

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 11:19:54 pm »
Please stay on topic. Thanks. ;)

Offline Foxpup

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 12:23:25 am »
But we are on topic. Well, kind of. The idea that you can just fill up a planet with billions of people with no regard for dwindling natural resources qualifies as a pretty big environmentally friendly delusion if you ask me.

Offline Sigurd Volsung

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 02:19:00 pm »
Someone mentioned clothing being harmful to the environment and yes with out a doubt it can be. Cotton strips the landscape of nutrients making it horribly necessary to use huge amounts of chemical fertilizers to grow the junk. However hemp, not marijuana nut regular hemp, is a far more efficient plant to use. There is also bamboo which can make a cloth that is literally soft as silk, my son had a onesy made out of it, as of right now bamboo is a bit expensive but as consumption rises and technology increases the cost will drop significantly.

On to Ethanol, as it is currently being produced it is horrid! However I heard an article on a National Public Radio article a few years back is that a group of researchers have devised a far, far more efficient way of making the stuff using kudzu of all plants. Basically using a method that mimics the function of the stomach they are able to extract the fuel more efficiently. This technology is also still in its infancy but shows great promise.

Lastly energy, as we all know solar is as clean as energy gets, problem is that it can be expensive to build the power plants. There is hope on the horizon. Again on another article I heard on NPR there is a company doing R and D on a way to create solar cell roofing shingles, that are as durable as regular roofing shingles. The hope is that once they can cost effectively produces these you could install them on your house and with in about five years they will have paid for themselves in energy savings.
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 06:24:40 pm »
The issue with government limitations is, in my opinion, that is too closely related to the economical interests of a certain few, and while some rules help reducing environmental harm, it's not rare to see that companies that harm the most find a loophole through that law.
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Offline CiceroKit

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2010, 07:29:55 am »
The debate about whether electric, hydrogen-powered, more efficient gasoline-powered or biofuel-powered vehicles are better for the environment really misses the mark when it comes to the big picture. What we need are more livable, walkable, communities. Part of this is more mass transit. There are many communities in this country that have a population that wants mass transit where no mass transit operation exists. We need to expand our infrastructure and realize that the future of transportation is about less driving overall. This means buses, high-speed rail, more walking and biking paths, car share and ride share programs. This not only would better our environment, but would better the quality of life for many people. Read more here:
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-10-27-transportation-secretary-ray-lahood-talk-about-livable-communiti
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Offline Yip

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2010, 05:09:35 pm »
We need to expand our infrastructure and realize that the future of transportation is about less driving overall. This means buses, high-speed rail, more walking and biking paths, car share and ride share programs. This not only would better our environment, but would better the quality of life for many people.
In industrial parts of Redmond Washington, which is supposedly "the bicycle capital of the Northwest", there are places which are obviously designed with strictly motorized vehicular access. There are not even sidewalks. Granted they may not expect to get a lot of bicycle traffic in those areas, but the no sidewalk bit I find odd.

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 08:41:33 pm »
The downside of the car pooling or public transportation is that you still use a vehicle that uses fossil fuel to feed itself. Less, yes, but still.
And bikes? What do you think the wheels or the seat or handle is made of? And the metals, too. It's all contamination. And how long does a bike last?
It all has a cost.
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Offline CiceroKit

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 06:39:36 pm »
True. Everything has a cost, but that is why we have to keep innovating.
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Offline Cimarron

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 07:55:11 pm »
Fuel economy and the environment are the last things I look at when I buy a car.  I hate small cars, and am really saddened to see the large v8 cars getting harder to find.  I wish car enthusiasts designed cars, (instead of the government and accountants) like in the past... now they all look like jellybeans. Gimmie a huge gas-guzzling Cadillac or Hummer any day!
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Offline Narei Mooncatt

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 10:54:40 pm »
I skimmed over a lot of this after a while, but I've one thing to say. At least the general public still has a lot more options for cars than what the environmental movent is doing to us in the trucking industry. In the name of being green, you have California's Air Resources Board (CARB) making rules affecting interstate commerce effectively costing truck owners $1k per year even if they only take one or two loads in to the state. The federal EPA just finished enacting the last of 3 tiers of emmissions controls that raised the cost of a new rig $8-10k with each new change. Now prices start around $120k for a new base model rig when it was only about $90k before, and are expected to go up yet again if the EPA can pass the proposed new fuel milage rules. And in true government fashion, it doesn't make much sense and some items could do more harm to the trucks they are supposed to help. And all those old trucks being ruled obsolete will be scrapped when they used to be able to have a lot more life left in them.

BTW, the newest trucks do put out cleaner air than they take in depending on where they run. But at some point you have to say enough is enough when it comes to how much the equipment costs, and each new regulation just means higher prices for products to cover increased costs of shipping. At the same time, people on the other side are demanding prices to not go up for the changes. I'm not trying to take away from some of the other points of debate by any means and I do like the idea of being more environmentally sound, just not made at the expense of everything else by people that really don't seem to understand more than what's in front of their nose.

And to make a point on a few other comments, it seems too many people are concerned more with what is coming out of their own tail pipe than energy in general. It's as if they think emmissions produced in other areas such as power generation and production of new technology to lower their own emmissions don't exist.
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Offline Mooshi

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 11:14:57 pm »
I have nothing but respect for the truck driver. Sure, they can be annoying in traffic and when in a small car, downright scary. But! Without them, modern society wouldn't exist. How do you think your food and other goods arrive at the stores?

When you think of it, it makes zero sense to scrap older cars in favour of newer ones because of government say so. On the surface, they new emit less toxins into the air and use up less fuel (unless it was an old diesel, those get better fuel economy compared to petrol cars), but we're talking about a car that's already build vs pumping out new ones. We have to have new cars or else these automotive businesses would out of business due to lack of interest. Face it, we're always going to want better and better. However, for bigger machinery, if it still works properly..it'd do less harm to the environment retrofitting instead of scrapping and building a new one. The new one may be more efficient, but you used more raw materials to replace something that wasn't entirely broken.

Offline Furlong

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2010, 04:35:07 pm »
Fuel economy and the environment are the last things I look at when I buy a car.  I hate small cars, and am really saddened to see the large v8 cars getting harder to find.  I wish car enthusiasts designed cars, (instead of the government and accountants) like in the past... now they all look like jellybeans. Gimmie a huge gas-guzzling Cadillac or Hummer any day!

My viewpoint is pretty much the opposite of this.  For truly good off road capabilities, a modified AWD hatchback is usually fine, such as a VW Touareg, Subaru Outback, or similar vehicle.

With SUV's you are paying a premium for not a lot of additional abilities, especially given the driving conditions most people face.  I am perfectly fine driving either my car, (2000 Chrysler Town & Country All-Wheel Drive) my sister's car, (2001 VW Jetta Front-Wheel Drive) or my father's car (1991 Mercedes 400E Rear-Wheel Drive).  In all cases, this is during a New England Winter.  In fact, the only changes that need to be done to any of them is to put a couple of sandbags in the back of my dad's car. 

Plus, have you seen this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e7R3y-qwZ0
Or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZqS1hkQl1I

Both show the inherent advantages of normal cars, as opposed to the large SUV's 
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Offline Cimarron

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2010, 06:50:41 pm »
 

Both show the inherent advantages of normal cars, as opposed to the large SUV's 

While the videos were entertaining... I still wouldnt buy either car.  I had a lifted 05 4 door Chevy Silverado... I outfitted it with Road Aromur Grille and light guards.  I got the biggest V8 engine Chevy offered in that truck. Even lifted, I still managed to tear the oil pan out of it offroading in Arizona.  Another reason I like large vehicles are that they are safer.  A woman ran a stop sign and I slammed on my brakes, but still ended up T-boning her car going maybe 20 mph.  Her little car was totaled.  She was lucky she wasnt injured... my truck didnt even have a scratch.  I hate to think what would have happened if I was going any faster.
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Offline Mooshi

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2010, 08:16:12 pm »
Have a 15 year old fight a pro body builder and see who wins. Size advantage is obvious. Have the same 15 year old fight another 15 year old of equal size and then it's more even. That's exactly why larger vehicals are safer. Theoretically, if we all had smaller vehicals,  maybe..but that will never happen. Larger does not always translate to safer, however. A smaller car with a 5 star rating will fair much better in an accident vs a big car from the 90's with only a 2 star rating. It all depends on how its built.

It is awesome you actually go off roading. Most people use their SUVs as a glorified grocery getter. Some SUVs embarass themselves when dealt with anything that isn't pavement. The Cadilac Escalade is a joke and the Chevy Tahoe sucks in snow. And if you're considering a Hummer...only the H1 is worth the steel it's built with.

Offline Avan

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2010, 12:45:20 am »
Oh; actually while a car might look more crumpled, the safety rating is about how safe the /people/ inside the car are. Not about how well the car fares. Just wanted to point out that is how the safety ratings work, though generally you are still safer if your vehicle is larger... due to inertia and all that.
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Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2010, 09:23:46 pm »
Getting a little derailed here but I'll bite x3
Yes big trucks are scary, and before they came people used to move things with trains (which aren't as clean but sure provide larger spaces), and before that there were carriages.
We change and adapt things to our "best of capabilities", I guess.
Then again, who here would use an electric car (for example)?
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Offline Shim

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2010, 09:31:50 pm »
Getting a little derailed here but I'll bite x3
Yes big trucks are scary, and before they came people used to move things with trains (which aren't as clean but sure provide larger spaces), and before that there were carriages.
We change and adapt things to our "best of capabilities", I guess.
Then again, who here would use an electric car (for example)?

I would, probably..Even if only to have a license plate as awesome as this guy.

Offline Serra Belvoule

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2010, 09:57:38 pm »
... "lol oil".
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Offline Mooshi

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2010, 10:00:52 pm »
lol it took oil in someway of the creation and transport of that car lol reality check! :B Still, it is lulzy.

Offline Avan

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2010, 10:27:40 pm »
lol it took oil in someway of the creation and transport of that car lol reality check! :B Still, it is lulzy.
not as much though ;)
Plus rule of cool outweighs all.

The best vehicle ever would be one powered by sheer awesome. Of course, only someone awesome can drive it (or does it drive itself, because awesome is awesome?).
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Offline Mooshi

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2010, 10:33:27 pm »
Psh.... :D  The awesomemobile? A green version of the Batmobile? xD

Offline Shim

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Re: Environmentally friendly delusions
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2010, 10:39:12 pm »
Nope. It wouldn't.

There's a crayola crayon color called "Awesome". Couldn't be green.